Hi Jon I had thought that Mary Hamer was the daughter of Richard Hamer (1804-1843) and Mary Owens after I found a gravestone at Newchapel Baptist Church. It also mentions a son Thomas. However when I received Mary Hamer's marriage certificate to Edward Davies in 1864 it does not list the father Richard as deceased, which made me question whether the gravestone was the correct one for my family. Having searched various censuses on Ancestry this week I have found a family - Richard Hamer and Mary, with a daughter Mary (in 1841/51 & 61) as follows: 1841 - Lived at Tynaberth, (Township of) Gollon, Parish of Abbeycwmhir with wife and son. 1851 - Lived at Noyadd, (Township of) Trecoed with wife and 4 children. Farmer of 274 acres with 2 farm labourers and a servant. 1861 - Lived at Noyadd, (Township of) Trecoed with wife and 6 children. Farmer of 272 acres with a servant and a cow man. 1871 - Lived at Coedgugan Hall, Llanbadarn Fawr with wife, 3 children and grandson. Farmer of 135 acres and 1 servant. 1881 - Lived at Pool Farm, ?Dewyfach, Breconshire with wife, brother David and son David. Farmer of 104 acres with 3 servants and a lodger. This fits as by 1871 Mary is married. But there is no son Thomas, so these can't be the people on the gravestone. Another lister Lynne, mentioned Garthfach Farm House, Eskirmaen - where both an Edward Davies and Mary Hamer are listed. This sounds very likely to be mis-transcribed as Southfach, and this Mary is a different one to that in Trecoed above ! It seems that although Richard Hamer was deceased at the time of daughter Mary's marriage, this is not recorded on the marriage certificate - is this quite a common occurrence ? I also have other Hamer's - David Hamer of Pantpoeth, also known as 'the crippled cobbler'. Who is your Hamer great grandfather ? Kind regards, Natalie Barry South Wales ________________________________ From: Jonathan Lloyd <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 18:59:09 Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' Hi Natalie Your Mary (1839-1915) was the daughter of Richard Hamer (1804-43) and brought up at Trefloge fach, an 8 acre smallholding (see 1851 census). Its very close to both the chapel and to Garth fach already mentioned, where she and Edward (b St Harmon 1829-96) were in 1861. Both properties, (as well as the adjacent Garth fawr where my Hamer great grandfather was born), have longstanding links with the same interconnected families, its often difficult to distinguish Hamers in this parish. My best guess is that "Southfach" is a transcription error for one of the two?? regards Jon Lloyd Cardiff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Natalie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:45 PM Subject: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > Dear Listers > > I have recently received the marriage certificate of my GGG Grandparents, > Edward > Davies and Mary Hamer who married by Banns in Banhadlog Chapel, > Montgomeryshire > on 20th May 1864. > > > Both gave their place of residence at the time of the marriage as > "Southfach". > Does anyone know where this is, or the correct spelling of the dwelling it > refers to ? > > This strikes me as an unusual combination of English and Welsh in one > word! A > Google search reveals nothing. > > In 1871 the couple and their 3 young children lived at Penddol, Cennarth, > St > Harmon, Radnorshire, so perhaps 'Southfach' is in this vicinity ?? > > Any suggestions appreciated .. > > Thanks, > Natalie > South Wales. > > > > > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message =================== Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Natalie I'm sure you have the right gravestone, and have seen other examples of a father named on a marriage certificate without mentioning his decease. I don't think the family mentioned on Ancestry are linked for now. Briefly my Hamer born at Garthfawr 1864 was the son of Jane Hamer, the family being tenants at Cynidfa, itself owned by Brynhafod which was farmed by Jane's brother John. If it helps I have an 1830 will of Thomas Hamer, Trefloge leaving property to his brother Richard of Pantpoeth, and a note of the 9 Pantpoeth children of David Hamer (1833-) & Sarah Lloyd (1845-). regards Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Natalie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > Hi Jon > > I had thought that Mary Hamer was the daughter of Richard Hamer > (1804-1843) and > Mary Owens after I found a gravestone at Newchapel Baptist Church. It also > mentions a son Thomas. > > > However when I received Mary Hamer's marriage certificate to Edward Davies > in > 1864 it does not list the father Richard as deceased, which made me > question > whether the gravestone was the correct one for my family. > > > Having searched various censuses on Ancestry this week I have found a > family - > Richard Hamer and Mary, with a daughter Mary (in 1841/51 & 61) as follows: > 1841 - Lived at Tynaberth, (Township of) Gollon, Parish of Abbeycwmhir > with wife > and son. > 1851 - Lived at Noyadd, (Township of) Trecoed with wife and 4 children. > Farmer > of 274 acres with 2 farm labourers and a servant. > 1861 - Lived at Noyadd, (Township of) Trecoed with wife and 6 children. > Farmer > of 272 acres with a servant and a cow man. > 1871 - Lived at Coedgugan Hall, Llanbadarn Fawr with wife, 3 children and > grandson. Farmer of 135 acres and 1 servant. > 1881 - Lived at Pool Farm, ?Dewyfach, Breconshire with wife, brother David > and > son David. Farmer of 104 acres with 3 servants and a lodger. > > > > This fits as by 1871 Mary is married. But there is no son Thomas, so these > can't > be the people on the gravestone. > > > Another lister Lynne, mentioned Garthfach Farm House, Eskirmaen - where > both an > Edward Davies and Mary Hamer are listed. This sounds very likely to be > mis-transcribed as Southfach, and this Mary is a different one to that in > Trecoed above ! > > It seems that although Richard Hamer was deceased at the time of daughter > Mary's > marriage, this is not recorded on the marriage certificate - is this quite > a > common occurrence ? > > I also have other Hamer's - David Hamer of Pantpoeth, also known as 'the > crippled cobbler'. > > Who is your Hamer great grandfather ? > > Kind regards, > Natalie > > Barry > South Wales > > > > ________________________________ > From: Jonathan Lloyd <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 18:59:09 > Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > > Hi Natalie > > Your Mary (1839-1915) was the daughter of Richard Hamer (1804-43) and > brought up at > Trefloge fach, an 8 acre smallholding (see 1851 census). Its very close to > both the chapel and to Garth fach > already mentioned, where she and Edward (b St Harmon 1829-96) were in > 1861. > Both properties, (as well as > the adjacent Garth fawr where my Hamer great grandfather was born), have > longstanding links with the > same interconnected families, its often difficult to distinguish Hamers in > this parish. > My best guess is that "Southfach" is a transcription error for one of the > two?? > > regards > > Jon Lloyd > > Cardiff > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Natalie" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:45 PM > Subject: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > > >> Dear Listers >> >> I have recently received the marriage certificate of my GGG Grandparents, >> Edward >> Davies and Mary Hamer who married by Banns in Banhadlog Chapel, >> Montgomeryshire >> on 20th May 1864. >> >> >> Both gave their place of residence at the time of the marriage as >> "Southfach". >> Does anyone know where this is, or the correct spelling of the dwelling >> it >> refers to ? >> >> This strikes me as an unusual combination of English and Welsh in one >> word! A >> Google search reveals nothing. >> >> In 1871 the couple and their 3 young children lived at Penddol, Cennarth, >> St >> Harmon, Radnorshire, so perhaps 'Southfach' is in this vicinity ?? >> >> Any suggestions appreciated .. >> >> Thanks, >> Natalie >> South Wales. >> >> >> >> >> >> =================== >> Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: >> www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > > > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Jon I'm sure I'm right now too with my gravestone ! A Thomas Hamer is a witness on marriage certificate so another confirmation. Although Brynhafod sounds familiar, I don't think our Hamers are related ? I think I just know the name from searching through Hamer families over the years. I have a record of the children of David Hamer and Sarah Lloyd, but have 10 rather than 9 .. I would be interested to have any more details from the will. I only have David Hamer of Pantpoeth and think his parents were a James Hamer and Anne. There must be a link between my two lots of Hamers at Pantpoeth and Treflogue, and the two you mention in the will ! Thanks & regards, Natalie ________________________________ From: Jonathan Lloyd <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, 6 October, 2010 18:15:10 Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' Hi Natalie I'm sure you have the right gravestone, and have seen other examples of a father named on a marriage certificate without mentioning his decease. I don't think the family mentioned on Ancestry are linked for now. Briefly my Hamer born at Garthfawr 1864 was the son of Jane Hamer, the family being tenants at Cynidfa, itself owned by Brynhafod which was farmed by Jane's brother John. If it helps I have an 1830 will of Thomas Hamer, Trefloge leaving property to his brother Richard of Pantpoeth, and a note of the 9 Pantpoeth children of David Hamer (1833-) & Sarah Lloyd (1845-). regards Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Natalie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > Hi Jon > > I had thought that Mary Hamer was the daughter of Richard Hamer > (1804-1843) and > Mary Owens after I found a gravestone at Newchapel Baptist Church. It also > mentions a son Thomas. > > > However when I received Mary Hamer's marriage certificate to Edward Davies > in > 1864 it does not list the father Richard as deceased, which made me > question > whether the gravestone was the correct one for my family. > > > Having searched various censuses on Ancestry this week I have found a > family - > Richard Hamer and Mary, with a daughter Mary (in 1841/51 & 61) as follows: > 1841 - Lived at Tynaberth, (Township of) Gollon, Parish of Abbeycwmhir > with wife > and son. > 1851 - Lived at Noyadd, (Township of) Trecoed with wife and 4 children. > Farmer > of 274 acres with 2 farm labourers and a servant. > 1861 - Lived at Noyadd, (Township of) Trecoed with wife and 6 children. > Farmer > of 272 acres with a servant and a cow man. > 1871 - Lived at Coedgugan Hall, Llanbadarn Fawr with wife, 3 children and > grandson. Farmer of 135 acres and 1 servant. > 1881 - Lived at Pool Farm, ?Dewyfach, Breconshire with wife, brother David > and > son David. Farmer of 104 acres with 3 servants and a lodger. > > > > This fits as by 1871 Mary is married. But there is no son Thomas, so these > can't > be the people on the gravestone. > > > Another lister Lynne, mentioned Garthfach Farm House, Eskirmaen - where > both an > Edward Davies and Mary Hamer are listed. This sounds very likely to be > mis-transcribed as Southfach, and this Mary is a different one to that in > Trecoed above ! > > It seems that although Richard Hamer was deceased at the time of daughter > Mary's > marriage, this is not recorded on the marriage certificate - is this quite > a > common occurrence ? > > I also have other Hamer's - David Hamer of Pantpoeth, also known as 'the > crippled cobbler'. > > Who is your Hamer great grandfather ? > > Kind regards, > Natalie > > Barry > South Wales > > > > ________________________________ > From: Jonathan Lloyd <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 18:59:09 > Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > > Hi Natalie > > Your Mary (1839-1915) was the daughter of Richard Hamer (1804-43) and > brought up at > Trefloge fach, an 8 acre smallholding (see 1851 census). Its very close to > both the chapel and to Garth fach > already mentioned, where she and Edward (b St Harmon 1829-96) were in > 1861. > Both properties, (as well as > the adjacent Garth fawr where my Hamer great grandfather was born), have > longstanding links with the > same interconnected families, its often difficult to distinguish Hamers in > this parish. > My best guess is that "Southfach" is a transcription error for one of the > two?? > > regards > > Jon Lloyd > > Cardiff > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Natalie" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:45 PM > Subject: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > > >> Dear Listers >> >> I have recently received the marriage certificate of my GGG Grandparents, >> Edward >> Davies and Mary Hamer who married by Banns in Banhadlog Chapel, >> Montgomeryshire >> on 20th May 1864. >> >> >> Both gave their place of residence at the time of the marriage as >> "Southfach". >> Does anyone know where this is, or the correct spelling of the dwelling >> it >> refers to ? >> >> This strikes me as an unusual combination of English and Welsh in one >> word! A >> Google search reveals nothing. >> >> In 1871 the couple and their 3 young children lived at Penddol, Cennarth, >> St >> Harmon, Radnorshire, so perhaps 'Southfach' is in this vicinity ?? >> >> Any suggestions appreciated .. >> >> Thanks, >> Natalie >> South Wales. >> >> >> >> >> >> =================== >> Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: >> www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > > > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message =================== Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Natalie The will I mentioned is that of Thomas Hamer Trefloge, Llandinam, bachelor made 17th April 1828 and proved 12 June 1830 with witnesses James Hamer and John Thomas. legacies to my sister Margaret Hamer wife of Thomas Davies £10 to my sister Elizabeth Bennett widow £5 to my sister Mariah Hamer single woman £5 to my niece Mary wife of John Jones Trefloge £10 and bed and furniture in consideration of her trouble in attending me in my illness residue to my brother Richard Hamer of Pant I'm not 100% certain if this refers to Pantpoeth or Pant(yddewispaen) both having Hamer links in the parish - then again so do Pantynysbren, Pant cae and Pant y dwr! best wishes Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Natalie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > Hi Jon > > I'm sure I'm right now too with my gravestone ! A Thomas Hamer is a > witness on > marriage certificate so another confirmation. > > > Although Brynhafod sounds familiar, I don't think our Hamers are related ? > I > think I just know the name from searching through Hamer families over the > years. > > > > I have a record of the children of David Hamer and Sarah Lloyd, but have > 10 > rather than 9 .. > > I would be interested to have any more details from the will. I only have > David > Hamer of Pantpoeth and think his parents were a James Hamer and Anne. > > There must be a link between my two lots of Hamers at Pantpoeth and > Treflogue, > and the two you mention in the will ! > > Thanks & regards, > Natalie > > > > ________________________________ > From: Jonathan Lloyd <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wed, 6 October, 2010 18:15:10 > Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > > > Hi Natalie > > I'm sure you have the right gravestone, and have seen other examples of a > father named on a > marriage certificate without mentioning his decease. I don't think the > family mentioned on Ancestry are linked for now. > > Briefly my Hamer born at Garthfawr 1864 was the son of Jane Hamer, the > family being tenants at Cynidfa, > itself owned by Brynhafod which was farmed by Jane's brother John. > > If it helps I have an 1830 will of Thomas Hamer, Trefloge leaving property > to his brother Richard of Pantpoeth, > and a note of the 9 Pantpoeth children of David Hamer (1833-) & Sarah > Lloyd > (1845-). > > regards > > Jon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Natalie" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 8:55 PM > Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > > >> Hi Jon >> >> I had thought that Mary Hamer was the daughter of Richard Hamer >> (1804-1843) and >> Mary Owens after I found a gravestone at Newchapel Baptist Church. It >> also >> mentions a son Thomas. >> >> >> However when I received Mary Hamer's marriage certificate to Edward >> Davies >> in >> 1864 it does not list the father Richard as deceased, which made me >> question >> whether the gravestone was the correct one for my family. >> >> >> Having searched various censuses on Ancestry this week I have found a >> family - >> Richard Hamer and Mary, with a daughter Mary (in 1841/51 & 61) as >> follows: >> 1841 - Lived at Tynaberth, (Township of) Gollon, Parish of Abbeycwmhir >> with wife >> and son. >> 1851 - Lived at Noyadd, (Township of) Trecoed with wife and 4 children. >> Farmer >> of 274 acres with 2 farm labourers and a servant. >> 1861 - Lived at Noyadd, (Township of) Trecoed with wife and 6 children. >> Farmer >> of 272 acres with a servant and a cow man. >> 1871 - Lived at Coedgugan Hall, Llanbadarn Fawr with wife, 3 children and >> grandson. Farmer of 135 acres and 1 servant. >> 1881 - Lived at Pool Farm, ?Dewyfach, Breconshire with wife, brother >> David >> and >> son David. Farmer of 104 acres with 3 servants and a lodger. >> >> >> >> This fits as by 1871 Mary is married. But there is no son Thomas, so >> these >> can't >> be the people on the gravestone. >> >> >> Another lister Lynne, mentioned Garthfach Farm House, Eskirmaen - where >> both an >> Edward Davies and Mary Hamer are listed. This sounds very likely to be >> mis-transcribed as Southfach, and this Mary is a different one to that in >> Trecoed above ! >> >> It seems that although Richard Hamer was deceased at the time of daughter >> Mary's >> marriage, this is not recorded on the marriage certificate - is this >> quite >> a >> common occurrence ? >> >> I also have other Hamer's - David Hamer of Pantpoeth, also known as 'the >> crippled cobbler'. >> >> Who is your Hamer great grandfather ? >> >> Kind regards, >> Natalie >> >> Barry >> South Wales >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Jonathan Lloyd <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 18:59:09 >> Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' >> >> Hi Natalie >> >> Your Mary (1839-1915) was the daughter of Richard Hamer (1804-43) and >> brought up at >> Trefloge fach, an 8 acre smallholding (see 1851 census). Its very close >> to >> both the chapel and to Garth fach >> already mentioned, where she and Edward (b St Harmon 1829-96) were in >> 1861. >> Both properties, (as well as >> the adjacent Garth fawr where my Hamer great grandfather was born), have >> longstanding links with the >> same interconnected families, its often difficult to distinguish Hamers >> in >> this parish. >> My best guess is that "Southfach" is a transcription error for one of the >> two?? >> >> regards >> >> Jon Lloyd >> >> Cardiff >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Natalie" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:45 PM >> Subject: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' >> >> >>> Dear Listers >>> >>> I have recently received the marriage certificate of my GGG >>> Grandparents, >>> Edward >>> Davies and Mary Hamer who married by Banns in Banhadlog Chapel, >>> Montgomeryshire >>> on 20th May 1864. >>> >>> >>> Both gave their place of residence at the time of the marriage as >>> "Southfach". >>> Does anyone know where this is, or the correct spelling of the dwelling >>> it >>> refers to ? >>> >>> This strikes me as an unusual combination of English and Welsh in one >>> word! A >>> Google search reveals nothing. >>> >>> In 1871 the couple and their 3 young children lived at Penddol, >>> Cennarth, >>> St >>> Harmon, Radnorshire, so perhaps 'Southfach' is in this vicinity ?? >>> >>> Any suggestions appreciated .. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Natalie >>> South Wales. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> =================== >>> Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: >>> www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes >>> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> =================== >> Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: >> www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >> body >> of >> the message >> >> >> >> >> >> =================== >> Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: >> www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > > > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message