Dear Listers, Further to my previous e-mail, Hilary Williams tells me that volumes 1 and 2 of Thomas Nicholas's "Annals and Antiquities of the Counties and County Families of Wales" are on: Internet Archive - http://www.archive.org/details/annalsantiquitie02nichuoft and Google Books - http://tinyurl.com/2axodg8 Thanks Hilary. However, despite this, I'll continue with my plan to upload the section about the status of Monmouthshire onto my website later this week. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK E-mail: [email protected] John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/ Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Ball Sent: 12 October 2010 08:37 To: [email protected] Subject: [POWYS] English Counties Jim Fisher <[email protected]> wrote: Take a look at my web page on just this topic at http://www.jimella.nildram.co.uk/counties.htm It is mainly based on my knowledge of England rather than Wales but (subject to correction by those more knowledgeable of Wales) I don't think the differences are very great, if there are any. ================== Dear Jim, Thank you for telling us about your excellent new webpage on the English counties. The only point about which I would quibble is your reference to Monmouthshire, where you state: "Monmouthshire. . . , now in Wales, was for several centuries legally a part of England (but not legitimately in the view of many Welsh people)." The mistaken belief that Monmouthshire is in England only came to prominence in the 19th century, and continued well into the 20th century. In fact, Monmouthshire has never been part of England. Henry VIII, through the Act of Union of 1536, created the county of Monmouthshire, together with the counties of Breconshire, Denbighshire, Montgomeryshire, and Radnorshire, from Welsh lands previously owned by the Marcher Lords. As a result, the number of Welsh counties increased from eight to thirteen. The mistaken belief that Monmouthshire was in England arose from the fact that in 1542, justice and administration for Wales were vested in the officers of a new court - the King's Great Session in Wales. The Great Session for Wales was organised into four circuits, each consisting of three counties, and which would each have two justices. The four circuits were: 1) North Wales - Anglesey, Caernarfon and Merioneth. 2) Chester - Flint, Denbigh and Montgomery. 3) Southwest Wales - Cardiganshire, Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire 4) South and Mid Wales - Glamorgan, Breconshire, and Radnorshire. Monmouthshire was omitted from this scheme. So, by reason of geographic proximity (nearest part of Wales to London), Monmouthshire came under the jurisdiction of the Courts of Chancery and Exchequer at Westminster. Ecclesiastically, though, the county remained in the diocese of Llandaff and culturally, linguistically and in every other respect continued to be Welsh. Later, in the reign of Charles II, Monmouthshire was included in the Oxford circuit, together with Oxford, Gloucester, Worcester and Hereford. The status of Monmouthshire as a Welsh county is more fully explained on Glyn Hale's excellent website (http://halefamily.net/gwent.html) from where I have taken much of the information above. A more detailed and authoritative account is given in Volume 2 of "Annals and Antiquities of the Counties and County Families of Wales", by Thomas Nicholas, published Longmans, Green, Reader, & Co., London , 1872. Nicholas devotes over four pages of his book to a vehement and well-argued dismissal of what he describes as "this vulgar error"; i.e. the claim that Monmouthshire is or was in England. He quotes verbatim the relevant paragraphs from the Act of Union, which clearly state that, ". . .all the residue of the said Lords Marcher within the saide Countrey or Dominion of Wales shall be served and divided into certaine particular Counties or Shires, that is to say: The Countie or Shire of Mommouth, the Countie or Shire of Brekenoke, the Countie or Shire of Radnor, the Countie or Shire of Mountgomery, the Countie or Shire of Denbigh." It is clear that Monmouthshire was treated in precisely the same way as the other four new Welsh counties. I am currently converting the full text of Nicholas's explanation, including the quotes from the Act of Union, into editable text, and hope to upload it onto my website in the next few days. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK E-mail: [email protected] John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/ Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists

On 12 Oct 2010, John Ball <[email protected]> wrote: . . . I'll continue with my plan to upload the section about the status of Monmouthshire onto my website later this week. =============== Dear Listers, A little later than planned, I've now uploaded a new webpage displaying the argument against the claim that Monmouthshire is (or was) in England. The discussion includes a long extract from Thomas Nicholas's "Annals and Antiquities of the Counties and County Families of Wales", published in 1872, in which he quotes verbatim from the Act of Union of 1536. To visit this new webpage, go to my 'Maps of Wales' feature, select 'Geography of Wales' and scroll down to the 'Counties of Wales' section and click on the link included under 'Note 2'. 'Maps of Wales' is at: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/maps/ Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK E-mail: [email protected] John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/ Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists