Dear John, Thank you very much for that correction. I'll see about getting the page changed in line with it. I'll put in a link to Glyn Hale's page, and, if you let me know when it goes live, to your new page of explanation. I am somewhat amused, though, by your reference to the "new webpage". It has been there for at least 10 years, probably longer, and was last updated last October. What is new is my mention of it on the Powis list, which I only joined quite recently. I think it must have been mentioned at some time on the Midmarch list though, which we have both been members of for some years. If not, I've slipped up there (again)! I'm hoping soon to move my entire site to a new host which will entail a new URL (at the very least changing all file name extensions from "htm" to "cfm", but probably also a new domain name). Don't hold your breath though - it's a lot of work converting about 300 pages of it to a new format, and learning to use a new-to-me mark-up language for it (Adobe's Cold Fusion) at the same time. I shall then announce the fact on all the family history lists of which I'm a member, including mention of that page because it does seem to be popular, especially with Americans. Regards, Jim On 12 Oct 2010 at 8:37, John Ball wrote: > Jim Fisher <[email protected]> wrote: > Take a look at my web page on just this topic at > http://www.jimella.nildram.co.uk/counties.htm > It is mainly based on my knowledge of England rather than Wales but > (subject to correction by those more knowledgeable of Wales) I don't > think the differences are very great, if there are any. > ================== > > Dear Jim, > > Thank you for telling us about your excellent new webpage on the > English counties. The only point about which I would quibble is your > reference to Monmouthshire, where you state: "Monmouthshire. . . , now > in Wales, was for several centuries legally a part of England (but not > legitimately in the view of many Welsh people)." > > The mistaken belief that Monmouthshire is in England only came to > prominence in the 19th century, and continued well into the 20th > century. > > In fact, Monmouthshire has never been part of England. Henry VIII, > through the Act of Union of 1536, created the county of Monmouthshire, > together with the counties of Breconshire, Denbighshire, > Montgomeryshire, and Radnorshire, from Welsh lands previously owned by > the Marcher Lords. As a result, the number of Welsh counties increased > from eight to thirteen. The mistaken belief that Monmouthshire was in > England arose from the fact that in 1542, justice and administration > for Wales were vested in the officers of a new court - the King's > Great Session in Wales. The Great Session for Wales was organised into > four circuits, each consisting of three counties, and which would each > have two justices. The four circuits were: 1) North Wales - Anglesey, > Caernarfon and Merioneth. 2) Chester - Flint, Denbigh and Montgomery. > 3) Southwest Wales - Cardiganshire, Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire > 4) South and Mid Wales - Glamorgan, Breconshire, and Radnorshire. > Monmouthshire was omitted from this scheme. So, by reason of > geographic proximity (nearest part of Wales to London), Monmouthshire > came under the jurisdiction of the Courts of Chancery and Exchequer at > Westminster. Ecclesiastically, though, the county remained in the > diocese of Llandaff and culturally, linguistically and in every other > respect continued to be Welsh. Later, in the reign of Charles II, > Monmouthshire was included in the Oxford circuit, together with > Oxford, Gloucester, Worcester and Hereford. > > The status of Monmouthshire as a Welsh county is more fully explained > on Glyn Hale's excellent website (http://halefamily.net/gwent.html) > from where I have taken much of the information above. > > A more detailed and authoritative account is given in Volume 2 of > "Annals and Antiquities of the Counties and County Families of Wales", > by Thomas Nicholas, published Longmans, Green, Reader, & Co., London , > 1872. Nicholas devotes over four pages of his book to a vehement and > well-argued dismissal of what he describes as "this vulgar error"; > i.e. the claim that Monmouthshire is or was in England. He quotes > verbatim the relevant paragraphs from the Act of Union, which clearly > state that, ". . .all the residue of the said Lords Marcher within the > saide Countrey or Dominion of Wales shall be served and divided into > certaine particular Counties or Shires, that is to say: The Countie or > Shire of Mommouth, the Countie of Shire of Brekenoke, the Countie or > Shire of Radnor, the Countie or Shire of Mountgomery, the Countie or > Shire of Denbigh." > > It is clear that Monmouthshire was treated in precisely the same way > as the other four new Welsh counties. > > I am currently converting the full text of Nicholas's explanation, > including the quotes from the Act of Union, into editable text, and > hope to upload it onto my website in the next few days. > > Kind regards, > > > John > -------------------- > John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK > E-mail: [email protected] > John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ > Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ > Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ > > GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ > Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/ Joint Administrator - Powys > (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists > > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >