Hello Lesley. I'm using the forum as the information may be of interest to others. I have wanted to get to the records offices (or churches) to seek out parish registers for births of Ann and her mother and father and possibly pinpoint John's birth and who his parents were. John and Ann's marriage remains a mystery and any info about this would be wonderful. Any other information about the social/cultural milieu around Llanwyddelan and Llanfair Caereinion would also be excellent. Thanks for your help. JOHN JONES, said to have been born 1836 Place of Birth Llanfair Caereinion, Montgomeryshire. The census area for Llanfair Caereinion is wide, taking in several square miles of surrounding countryside dotted with farms and small rural houses. In the 1841 census (6th June) there are six John Joneses of around the right age. They are: Ty Evan Rhys (page 107) John age 6; Brynellen (page 120) John age 5; (Alun Baines) Lletty Gwilym Isaf (page 146) John age 4; Bonnygewin (page 164) John age 5 Neuadd Fach (page 175) John age 6; Llwychylau (page 178 John age 6. ANN JONES: BORN 1835, 34 or 33. Place of Birth Pen Y Gaer, Llanwyddelan, Montgomeryshire. John married Ann (below) somewhere around the late 1840s. In 1858 in the town of Tregynon district of Newtown John and Ann Jones registered the birth of the first born Evan on the 31 October 1858 their abode is Pen y Gair Llanwydellan. John’s occupation is Agricultural Labourer. In 1861 the house at ‘Pen y Gaer’ is still in the family occupied by Ann Jones head 55 pauper born Llanwydellan Hannah Jones 8 daughter born Llanwydellan Elizabeth Jones 3 granddaughter born Llanwydellan. ( Hannah was baptized on 3 December 1852 daughter of Evan and Ann of Penygair). John and Ann have moved from Pen y Gair and are living at the Wheat Sheaf, 124 Berriew Street, Welshpool. John Jones Head 25, servant at Sun Inn born Llanfair Caereinion. Ann Jones Wife 25, born Llanfair Caereinion Evan Jones son 2, born Welshpool John Jones 3 months, born Welshpool. Getting definite information was made easier by a visit to the area she came from in March of 2009. I knew Welshpool but had never been to the rural area around Llanfair Caereinion and Llanwyddelen. I wanted to fill out the sketchy impressions I had of the area from OS maps and rare photos. It doesn't seem to be an area that has ever attracted written description or,equally, thought to have merited photographic or painterly attention. I also went to see what, if any, vibrations (for want of a better word) I would get there. I was knocked out. It is one of the world's uniquely beautiful and almost timeless places with warm, friendly people free of cynicism. And yes, almost immediately I felt I totally belonged there - a natural part of the earth there. Fanciful perhaps, but a great feeling nonetheless. Llanwyddelan is a small, scattered village centred on a beautifully sited church and cemetery (Church of Wales) set on a prominent hill on the eastern approach. The church has an unusual slate hung gable end where it faces west. The road eastwards through the village, after about a mile and a quarter, reaches the village of Adfa. Just about quarter of a mile before you get to Adfa, there is a small lane running up right (north). This lane leads to Y Gaer, an ancient British Hillfort. Following this lane, I found the site of the two Pen Y Gaer cottages with the help of a Cassini 1835 reproduction OS map. The site location was later confirmed by the Clwyd - Powys Archeological Society. I was told: "I have searched the Regional Historic Environment Record and have found that both cottages are recorded on there. The only survey in which they have been included as yet, is as part of a Tir Gofal Management Plan - a scheme which supports farmers in protecting both the archaeological heritage and natural environment on their land. In this survey, the cottage sites were located within the landscape, their location only being visible today by the way of a slight level platform. Both the cottages and Pen y Gaer hillfort fall within the land of Tynyrwtra Farm..." They also sent the National Grid References for the cottages: SJ0667001199 and SJ0668601197. The 1841 census records one family living at “Pen Y Gaer” as: Evan Jones age 30 Ag Lab Ann Jones age 35 Ann Jones age 7 Mary Jones age 4 Margaret Jones age 1 Margaret Gittins 80 pauper. Alun Baines my distant cousin (in both senses) lives in New Zealand. Alun did acres of invaluable fundamental research which he generously shared with me. Following the clue provided by the presence of Margaret Gittins at Penygaer in 1841, he found: "The name Margaret Gittins gave a clue to Ann Jones’s parents. Margaret Gittins was buried in Welshpool aged 82 of Penygaer 28 December 1844 ( Her death was registered by a member of the Jones family..." Alun went on to find an important marriage record: " Evan Jones (bachelor) to Ann Gittins (spinster) at Llanwyddelan Parish Church 2nd April 1830 Witnesses Thomas Gittins (signed) and Thomas Owen (signed). [Thomas Owen was a customary witness at this period. Thomas Gittins was Ann’s father]. So it turns out my Great Grandmother Ann Jones' mother was originally Ann Gittins. Ann Gittins' father Thomas had the farm Llwyncoppa which is just over the lane and a couple of fields away from Pen Y Gaer. Alun went on to find that: "After their marriage in 1830 Evan and Ann Jones lived at ‘Pen Y Gaer’ and had a daughter Anne Jones on the 10 October 1830. (This) Anne died age 2 on the 31 January 1833...On the 24 November 1833 a second Anne Jones (sic) was born followed by: Mary born 27 November 1843; Thomas born 19 January 1843; and Evan born 1846" Alun doesn't say where this information came from but if it's accurate, it gives us Ann Jones' exact birthdate. In the 1851 census, Ann is missing from Penygaer but at Llwyncoppa an Ann Jones aged 17 is recorded as a 'servant.' Interestingly, another servant recorded there in 1851 is John Jones aged 16 - but his place of birth is down as Manafon, not Llanfair Caereinion. Whether or not that is our John Jones, Ann probably married our John sometime between 1851 and 1858. Alun found their first child Evan's birth certificate: " Evan was born at Pen Y Gaer Oct 31st 1858. Ann registered his birth 6 days later in Tregynon a Sub District of Newtown." Both Alun and I have made futile searches for a record of Ann and John's marriage - an important bit of information to tie things together. In 1861, they, with their son's Evan aged 2 and John aged 3 months are living at the Wheatsheaf Inn, Berriew Street, Welshpool. They are, so far, not traceable via the Welshpool, Llanfyllin (Llanfair Caereinion was in that registry district then) or Newtown registries. I searched the non-conformist indexes at the Montgomeryshire Genealogical Society's office in Newtown when I visited last March - no trace. On the religious side, Ann and John seem to have used the Church of Wales - their children were baptised at CofW churches. However, there must be some uncertainty: Pen Y Gaer, although technically in the parish of Llanwyddelen, was really nearer and directly geographically linked with Adfa and Llwyncoppa was in Adfa (still is). There is an interesting brief entry in the history of the founder of Adfa Chapel which says the area was strongly non-conformist and before the Chapel was built the people of the area held their services "at local farms like Llwyncoppa." John and Ann's children were, chronologically: Evan, John, Sarah Jane, Anne, Lucy, Rose (my Nain), Mary (Polly), Maggie, and Elizabeth (Betty). I'm now, as well as continuing the search for facts, trying to build a picture of how Ann and John lived then - the social conditions, circumstances and environment they would have experienced. A problem is that while there are some excellent and entertaining texts available from the National Library of Wales and others, these range all over Wales except for the area around Llanfair and Llanwyddelen. The social history of the good ordinary people of Wales is, relative to that of the gentry and the celebrity, sadly neglected. Heddwch Mike Mike LLywelyn Cox http://www.facebook.com/micoxy?ref=name http://micoxpplog.blogspot.com A NCODP voluntary worker (www.ncodp.org.uk) A NSUN (http://www.nsun.org.uk) member. A http://www.solnetwork.org.uk member. All views and statements expressed here are entirely my own and, unless stated otherwise, not those of any other individual or organisation.