Hi All and Ruth, Ruth, Your e-mail address book seems to have been hijacked. I have had 3 suspect e-mails, via Powys L and personally from you. Ruth, I don't want to e-mail you personally, in case I corrupt my e-mail account. Best wishes to you, Ruth and All, Hilary Williams

Thank you Alison and David, In reply to Alison's question I am looking for a John David born or baptised about 1741 or before. I have also not ruled out a possibility of the patronymic naming system, for example a David ??????. If you are able to help I would be very appreciative. Thank you Huw.

Hi Huw The parish you write of is in Carmarthenshire. Obviously Carmarthenshire Records Office will have copies of any surviving registers and the NLW will have the BT’s The Carmarthenshire Family Society, of which I am a member have databases for the following entries: BAPS 1813-1870 MARR 1813-1837 BUR 1813-1875 The future of the Carm FHS is very uncertain at the moment as the present owners wish to retire at the end of this year’s membership when things will cease to function in their present form. Please contact me off list if you think I can be of assistance. .................................................David

I'm sure you have noted that John Hughes had the same problem and both changed his e-mail address and removed his excellent website. Pryse At 03:06 PM 8/15/2012, you wrote: My apologies Hilary & all - I am trying to deal with this problem but as you say my email address book has been hijacked & I don't know what is being sent out in my name. I've added some new protection to my computer & hope this may help. Am not really sure how to deal with it as I've never had this problem before. Ruth -----Original Message----- From: Hilary Williams <williams.o.h@ic24.net> To: powys <powys@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 20:01 Subject: [POWYS] Powys: Suspect e-mails via RUTH HAYWARD Hi All and Ruth, Ruth, Your e-mail address book seems to have been hijacked. I have had 3 suspect e-mails, via Powys L and personally from you. Ruth, I don't want to e-mail you personally, in case I corrupt my e-mail account. Best wishes to you, Ruth and All, Hilary Williams =================== Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: [1]www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POWYS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message =================== Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: [2]www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POWYS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm 2. http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm

My apologies Hilary & all - I am trying to deal with this problem but as you say my email address book has been hijacked & I don't know what is being sent out in my name. I've added some new protection to my computer & hope this may help. Am not really sure how to deal with it as I've never had this problem before. Ruth -----Original Message----- From: Hilary Williams <williams.o.h@ic24.net> To: powys <powys@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 20:01 Subject: [POWYS] Powys: Suspect e-mails via RUTH HAYWARD Hi All and Ruth, Ruth, Your e-mail address book seems to have been hijacked. I have had 3 suspect e-mails, via Powys L and personally from you. Ruth, I don't want to e-mail you personally, in case I corrupt my e-mail account. Best wishes to you, Ruth and All, Hilary Williams =================== Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POWYS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Christmas plane tix on sale. Can you give me dates? Sent from my iPad On Aug 15, 2012, at 11:25 AM, Robert Davies <rh-gm@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > > > > > Thank you Alison and David, In reply to Alison's question I am looking for a John David born or baptised about 1741 or before. I have also not ruled out a possibility of the patronymic naming system, for example a David ??????. If you are able to help I would be very appreciative. Thank you Huw. > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POWYS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Who are you looking for in the Llandovery area, Huw? Alison

Hello, Can anyone help. For me to research my family history I would like to look at the parish records for Llandovery, St. Dingat. I don't seem to be able to purchase these records. but could someone tell me if they are available on Find My Past or Ancestory.co.uk. Thank you Huw.

Hello I am new to this list having confirmed that my great grandfather William HOWELLS (b. 4 March 1848) came from Breconshire. He consistently gives his birthplace as Brecknock but at last, on the 1891 census, he gives the more specific birthplace - Dukestown. William married in 1872 and settled in Ystumtuen in Ceredigion. On his marriage cert he gives his father's name as David HOWELLS; both of them were miners. I know about William's descendants but wonder whether anyone has links to his siblings? I have not yet been able to trace his parents. Best wishes Mary Bryceland PS I'm just off for a few days in the Ystumtuen area; this is followed by a few days in Brecon (a break I had booked before I had confirmed William's birthplace)

I think the main reason why so many Welsh speakers filled in the census form in English was simply that they regarded English as the language of officialdom. My grandparents were completely fluent in both languages and were proud of being Welsh but my grandfather filled in the form in English. Roy On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 12:35 PM, brychdyn <brychdyn@rhod.co.uk> wrote: > There are lots of transcription errors in the 1911 census index no doubt > due to the fact that all the returns were completed in the occupiers > hand. Thus, I have had to trawl through whole districts looking for > relatives as simple surnames were wrongly transcribed. Whilst doing this > have seen a few returns written in Welsh but not as many as I would have > expected. It was an interesting exercise even noted some entries for > families of gypsies living in caravans and tents parked next to a > school, but no adult males in occupation! > I definitely got the flavour that the vast majority of households were > more than familiar with English or had had neighbours to help them with > it rather than use Welsh. > Rhod

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ball" <1.co.uk> To: <powys@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 12:02 PM Subject: [POWYS] Welsh in census returns. > I must say this is the first time I've encountered an example of a > householder responding in Welsh to a census question. Perhaps Georgina > could tell us whether the householder filled in the Welsh language version > of the census form? Has anyone else seen similar examples while studying > census returns? The National Archives publication "Census - The Expert Guide" points out that the 1911 schedule was made available not only in Welsh, but also in Yiddish (in areas with a high Jewish concentration) and also in German (p41). The census results eventually suggested that the country's monoglot Welsh population at that time was around 8.5% (down from 30% in 1891 and 15% in 1901 [p78]), and heads of any such households might be expected to respond in Welsh (p212). In fact a Welsh version of the schedule had been available from 1851 onwards for enumerators to give to those unable to understand English (p77). In Scotland the census had first asked about ability to speak Gaelic from 1881 onwards. AJ

Hi John, The 1911 census for my relative was in the Welsh language version. If anyone cares to look at the census, it was for Richard Davies b. 1853 born in Llanllugan, Montg. The address is Gwerfyda, Llanllugan, Nr Newtown, Montg. Richard Davies Penteubr 58 Sengl Farmer Montgomery Llanllugan Catherine Davies Chwaer 53 Sengl Cadw Ty Montgomery Llanllugan Sarah Jane Buckley Nith 25 Sengl Morwyn Cyffredin Montgomery Mochdre The whole page is otherwise in the Welsh language. Thanks to those who did the transcription. It now makes sense. Catherine was a sister and the Housekeeper, and Sarah was a niece and the Domestic Maid. Georgina In a message dated 8/7/2012 4:03:28 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, john@jlb2011.co.uk writes: Roy Davies <roydavies@gmail.com> wrote: "Cadw ty" means keeping the house, i.e. she was either a house keeper or a house wife, depending on her relationship to the head of the household. "Morwyn" means "maid" (or maiden) and "cyffredin" means common so she would have been someone who did general domestic duties. Off hand I can't think what how we would normally describe that occupation in English, "general maid," I suppose. ================ Dear Listers, What an interesting answer from Roy Davies. Many thanks, Roy. I must say this is the first time I've encountered an example of a householder responding in Welsh to a census question. Perhaps Georgina could tell us whether the householder filled in the Welsh language version of the census form? Has anyone else seen similar examples while studying census returns? I suppose the 1911 is the most likely source, because in that census we can see the answers as written by the head of the household, rather than the census enumerator's transcription that we see in all the other censuses. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK E-mail: john@jlb2011.co.uk Personal Homepage: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/wales/ Joint Webmaster, Breconshire Local & Family History Society http://www.blfhs.co.uk/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists =================== Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POWYS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There are lots of transcription errors in the 1911 census index no doubt due to the fact that all the returns were completed in the occupiers hand. Thus, I have had to trawl through whole districts looking for relatives as simple surnames were wrongly transcribed. Whilst doing this have seen a few returns written in Welsh but not as many as I would have expected. It was an interesting exercise even noted some entries for families of gypsies living in caravans and tents parked next to a school, but no adult males in occupation! I definitely got the flavour that the vast majority of households were more than familiar with English or had had neighbours to help them with it rather than use Welsh. Rhod On 07/08/2012 12:02, John Ball wrote: > Roy Davies <roydavies@gmail.com> wrote: > "Cadw ty" means keeping the house, i.e. she was either a house keeper > or a house wife, depending on her relationship to the head of the > household. > "Morwyn" means "maid" (or maiden) and "cyffredin" means common so she > would have been someone who did general domestic duties. Off hand I > can't think what how we would normally describe that occupation in > English, "general maid," I suppose. > ================ > > > Dear Listers, > > What an interesting answer from Roy Davies. Many thanks, Roy. > > I must say this is the first time I've encountered an example of a > householder responding in Welsh to a census question. Perhaps Georgina could > tell us whether the householder filled in the Welsh language version of the > census form? > Has anyone else seen similar examples while studying census returns? > > I suppose the 1911 is the most likely source, because in that census we can > see the answers as written by the head of the household, rather than the > census enumerator's transcription that we see in all the other censuses. > > Kind regards, > > > John > -------------------- > John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK > E-mail: john@jlb2011.co.uk > Personal Homepage: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk > Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/walespic/ > Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/wales/ > > Joint Webmaster, Breconshire Local & Family History Society > http://www.blfhs.co.uk/ > GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ > Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POWYS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5182 - Release Date: 08/06/12 >

Roy Davies <roydavies@gmail.com> wrote: "Cadw ty" means keeping the house, i.e. she was either a house keeper or a house wife, depending on her relationship to the head of the household. "Morwyn" means "maid" (or maiden) and "cyffredin" means common so she would have been someone who did general domestic duties. Off hand I can't think what how we would normally describe that occupation in English, "general maid," I suppose. ================ Dear Listers, What an interesting answer from Roy Davies. Many thanks, Roy. I must say this is the first time I've encountered an example of a householder responding in Welsh to a census question. Perhaps Georgina could tell us whether the householder filled in the Welsh language version of the census form? Has anyone else seen similar examples while studying census returns? I suppose the 1911 is the most likely source, because in that census we can see the answers as written by the head of the household, rather than the census enumerator's transcription that we see in all the other censuses. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK E-mail: john@jlb2011.co.uk Personal Homepage: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/wales/ Joint Webmaster, Breconshire Local & Family History Society http://www.blfhs.co.uk/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists

Many of my relatives in Merionethshire filled in their 1911 census in Welsh, using a Welsh version of the form. The rubrics of the form offer various standard terms such as 'Penteulu', 'Priod', 'Gweddw', 'Meistr', 'Gweithiwr' (i.e. Head, Married, Single, Employer, Worker). I have seen 'Morwyn gyffredin' entered by informants more than once, and 'llafurwr amaethyddol' for 'agricultural labourer', so I imagine these were recommended terms. They don't appear on the printed form as one can see it on-line, but a note at the top of the 'Gwaith personol' column (employment) refers to instructions being available on the reverse of the form. Interestingly, although the printed form is entirely in Welsh, the English words 'scullery', 'landing', 'lobby', closet', and 'bathroom' are used in the note about which rooms to count! I think I may have seen Welsh entered occasionally in an earlier census too, but don't have it immediately to hand. Shirley ________________________________________ From: powys-bounces@rootsweb.com [powys-bounces@rootsweb.com] on behalf of John Ball [john@jlb2011.co.uk] Sent: 07 August 2012 12:02 To: powys@rootsweb.com Subject: [POWYS] Welsh in census returns. Roy Davies <roydavies@gmail.com> wrote: "Cadw ty" means keeping the house, i.e. she was either a house keeper or a house wife, depending on her relationship to the head of the household. "Morwyn" means "maid" (or maiden) and "cyffredin" means common so she would have been someone who did general domestic duties. Off hand I can't think what how we would normally describe that occupation in English, "general maid," I suppose. ================ Dear Listers, What an interesting answer from Roy Davies. Many thanks, Roy. I must say this is the first time I've encountered an example of a householder responding in Welsh to a census question. Perhaps Georgina could tell us whether the householder filled in the Welsh language version of the census form? Has anyone else seen similar examples while studying census returns? I suppose the 1911 is the most likely source, because in that census we can see the answers as written by the head of the household, rather than the census enumerator's transcription that we see in all the other censuses. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK E-mail: john@jlb2011.co.uk Personal Homepage: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/wales/ Joint Webmaster, Breconshire Local & Family History Society http://www.blfhs.co.uk/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists =================== Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POWYS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

"Cadw ty" means keeping the house, i.e. she was either a house keeper or a house wife, depending on her relationship to the head of the household. "Morwyn" means "maid" (or maiden) and "cyffredin" means common so she would have been someone who did general domestic duties. Off hand I can't think what how we would normally describe that occupation in English, "general maid," I suppose. Regards, Roy On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 7:27 AM, <Suttonian1@aol.com> wrote: > Hi, > > For the Welsh speaking researchers: > > On the 1911 census I have come across two occupations on my line in > Montgomeryshire of Cadw Ty and Morwyn Cyffredin. > > What do these mean?? I worked out Nith as Niece. > > Thanks, > > Georgina > > Georgina Goodby Fisher > formerly of Sutton Coldfield, Warks > now in Orange, California > 6 miles from Disneyland > One Name Study Goodby > _www.goodbytree.org_ (http://www.goodbytree.org/) >

Hi, For the Welsh speaking researchers: On the 1911 census I have come across two occupations on my line in Montgomeryshire of Cadw Ty and Morwyn Cyffredin. What do these mean?? I worked out Nith as Niece. Thanks, Georgina Georgina Goodby Fisher formerly of Sutton Coldfield, Warks now in Orange, California 6 miles from Disneyland One Name Study Goodby _www.goodbytree.org_ (http://www.goodbytree.org/)

Powys List Activity Stats - July 2012 Dear Listers, In July 2012, 79 messages were distributed via the Powys List, eleven more than June's figure (68). Curiously, all these messages bar one were posted in the first 20 days of July. Currently there are 418 members subscribed to the List, one more than last month. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK Administrator - Powys RootsWeb mailing list E-mail: john@jlb2011.co.uk Personal Website: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/wales/ Joint Webmaster - Breconshire Local & Family History Society http://www.blfhs.c.uk/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/

Photos of: St Cadfarch's Church, Penegoes, MGY; Bethesda Chapel, Penegoes, MGY Dear Listers, The latest subjects to be added to my 'Welsh Churches and Chapels Collection' are: St Cadfarch's Church, Penegoes, Montgomeryshire (Photography by John Ball and Google StreetView) Bethesda Wesleyan Methodist Chapel, Penegoes, Montgomeryshire (Photography by John Ball and Google StreetView) Go to www.jlb2011.co.uk/walespic/churches/search-fram.htm and scroll down the index to the relevant Penegoes links. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK E-mail: john@jlb2011.co.uk Website: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists Joint Webmaster - Breconshire Local & Family History Society: www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsblfhs/

I don't know if this is he but it is the closest I could find, others didn't have town/village/parish name just Breconshire Name: Rees Price Age in 1911: 31 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880 Relation to Head: Servant Gender: Male Birth Place: Gwendwr, Breconshire, Wales Civil parish: Rhondda County/Island: Glamorgan Country: Wales Street Address: Tyn Gweydd Farm Wattstown Rhondda Occupation: Farm Labourer Registration district: Pontypridd Registration District Number: 589 Sub-registration district: Llanwonno ED, institution, or vessel: 04 Household schedule number: 313 Piece: 32250 Household Members: Name Age Evan Evans 63 Lewis Evans 59 Mary Jane Roberts 18 Theodore Mashal 29 Rees Price 31 Source Citation: Class: RG14; Piece: 32250; Schedule Number: 313. These two are in the English 1911 Rees Brychan Price Maud Imsgene abt 1881 Devynock, Breconshire Head Dover, Kent Thomas Rees Price Priscilla abt 1881 Brecon, Wales Head Leicester, Leicestershire Eliz On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Robert Price <rprice84043@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Hello All, > I am hoping someone out there lives in Merthyr Cynog and can help me track down a relative. > On the 1911 census John Price a shepherd age 63 born Llanfiangle Nant bran and his wife Elizabeth age 70 born Carmarthen, Llanfair bryn are living at Blaengwy farm Merthyr Cynog. They have been married 33 years. Elizabeth lists that she had 1 child and that he is alive in 1911. > The one child they had was Rees Price born about 1879 in Gwenddwr,Breconshire,Wales. On the 1901 census Rees Price age 22 born Gwenddwr is a servant of Anne Jones a widow age 71 born Llanafan. They are living at Disgwylfa farm Merthyr Cynog. I am not sure were Rees is living in 1911. > Can anyone help me with this family ? > Kind Regards > Robert Price. > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POWYS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message