Thank you, Aidan, that was very informative. After reading your response, I re-read my query and see that it is worded ambiguously. I meant different children of the same couple rather than the same child being baptized twice, but I can see where that is unclear. That being said, the information in your reply is valuable and probably not something that would spring to my mind, especially the private baptism of a sick child or a conditional baptism, which I'd never heard of. Thanks again for replying. On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 8:19 PM, Aidan Jones <acjj@clara.net> wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peggy Sue" <pretty.peggy.> > To: <POWYS@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 12:05 PM > Subject: [POWYS] BRE- Llanfihangels Bryn Pabuan and Llanafan Fawr? > > > Can anyone tell me how close these two BRE locations are? Does it make > > any kind of sense that children of one couple would be baptized in both > > places? > > > Strictly speaking a child should never have been baptised twice - one of > the > questions asked during the ordinary baptismal service was to ascertain that > no previous baptism had ever taken place. (However if there was ever any > doubt on the subject, then a form of conditional baptism could proceed.) > > This is also assuming that we are not considering a case (not uncommon) of > a > sick child being privately baptised, and subsequently being "received" into > church in the presence of the full congregation. > > What was also quite common was for there to be separate registers for > parishes and for individual chapelries falling within the parish. The > chapel registers would usually be regarded as unofficial, and so all or > many > of their entries would frequently be further transcribed into the register > of the parent parish - often without this process having been made > particularly clear. Such chapelries would sometimes eventually become > independent parishes in their own right. However so far as I can see, > Llanfihangel Bryn Pabuan and Llanafan Fawr were both quite ancient > parishes, > although the latter had a small detached portion lying beyond the former. > > It would be rare (and legally dubious) for two separate parishes ever to > have shared the same register, although I think I can remember finding at > least one example. > > AJ > > > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POWYS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > -- Luzerne County, Pennsylvania, Families: AMOS, CHARLES, DAVIES, FISHER, HENRY, PRICE, RAUGH/ROUGH, REESE, WAGNER Monmouthshire Families: AMOS/HAMON, REES Glamorganshire Families: DAVIS/DAVIES, COLLINS (also Ireland), REESE Cardiganshire Families: GRIFFITHS, THOMAS Dutch and German Families: UPDYKE, DIETRICH, GRANTZ

----- Original Message ----- From: "Peggy Sue" <pretty.peggy.> To: <POWYS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 12:05 PM Subject: [POWYS] BRE- Llanfihangels Bryn Pabuan and Llanafan Fawr? > Can anyone tell me how close these two BRE locations are? Does it make > any kind of sense that children of one couple would be baptized in both > places? Strictly speaking a child should never have been baptised twice - one of the questions asked during the ordinary baptismal service was to ascertain that no previous baptism had ever taken place. (However if there was ever any doubt on the subject, then a form of conditional baptism could proceed.) This is also assuming that we are not considering a case (not uncommon) of a sick child being privately baptised, and subsequently being "received" into church in the presence of the full congregation. What was also quite common was for there to be separate registers for parishes and for individual chapelries falling within the parish. The chapel registers would usually be regarded as unofficial, and so all or many of their entries would frequently be further transcribed into the register of the parent parish - often without this process having been made particularly clear. Such chapelries would sometimes eventually become independent parishes in their own right. However so far as I can see, Llanfihangel Bryn Pabuan and Llanafan Fawr were both quite ancient parishes, although the latter had a small detached portion lying beyond the former. It would be rare (and legally dubious) for two separate parishes ever to have shared the same register, although I think I can remember finding at least one example. AJ

Free house means that the pub is not tied to a brewery . So it can sell the beers that they choose. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Price" <genetree@tpg.com.au> To: <powys@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [POWYS] Powys List Activity Stats - September 2012 > > Well now, here's a question no doubt the answer to which many > Welshpersons will know. > A very friendly lister recently took some photos in my Rogers > stamping grounds of Welshpool and one of them was The Raven pub in > Raven Square. On the outside of the pub is wording "Free House." That > has me puzzled. > Cheers > Graham > Melbourne > Oz > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POWYS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Yes, it is employee -----Original Message----- From: powys-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:powys-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sue Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2012 8:00 PM To: powys@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [POWYS] Question Dear All, As you say there has not been much activity I would like to ask some clever person what the word (em'ee) means after a person's name on census records. Thanking you in anticipation. Sue in Suffolk =================== Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POWYS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5303 - Release Date: 10/01/12 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5303 - Release Date: 10/01/12

Most definitely a GOOD thing. -- Heddwch. Mike, Mike Llywelyn Cox, PPlog: http://micoxpplog.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/micoxy?ref=name A NCODP member: http://www.ncodp.org.uk A NSUN member: http://www.nsun.org.uk/ A SoL member: http://www.shapingourlives.org.uk/ Views and statements here are entirely my own and, unless mentioned, not those of any other organisation or individual. On Tue, 2012-10-02 at 14:12 +1000, Graham Price wrote: > At 01:59 PM 2/10/2012, Eliz wrote: > >A free house isn't tied to a brewery > > Ta Eliz. Is that a good or a "bad" thing?" :-\ > > Graham > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POWYS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

<G> I say a good thing <G> but others who know might not agree. Eliz On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:12 AM, Graham Price <genetree@tpg.com.au> wrote: > At 01:59 PM 2/10/2012, Eliz wrote: >>A free house isn't tied to a brewery > > Ta Eliz. Is that a good or a "bad" thing?" :-\ > > Graham > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POWYS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

At 01:59 PM 2/10/2012, Eliz wrote: >A free house isn't tied to a brewery Ta Eliz. Is that a good or a "bad" thing?" :-\ Graham

>John ball wrote: >Seasonal variations are at least part of the reason for the low activity on >the Powys List in September, but there has been a gradual decline in >activity on most of RootsWeb's mailing lists over the past decade. >I've set out below the number of messages distributed in the month of >September on the Powys List for the past dozen years: >2000 - 1058 >2001 - 248 >2002 - 239 >2003 - 136 <<<snip>>> Wow! year 2000 was a bonanza! I am wondering if the "decline" is due to all the genealogy programmes now on the internet? More and more records are being added week by week so that - in some cases at least - it is not always necessary to seek help from a list. I'm sure it is a fact that genealogy research is booming, so it is not the case re. lack of people (and the 430 people registered on this list would seem to give credence to that). I commenced my research sort of full time back in 1993, but it wasn't till about 2000 that I began to access the internet. Prior to that, and even after that in a lesser fashion, my research had been from library books, microfiche, and numerous microfilms of parish and non-conformist registers. For the past 12 months it has not been necessary for me to access any microfilms due, mainly, to the scanning of parish records etc. by Ancestry.com., Find My Past, and others. Again, could the lack of emails to the list depend upon us growing older? Perhaps we don't have the same enthusiasm and in that most of us have completed much of our family trees with only twigs left to find, this reflects itself in quiet times on lists? Not sure about that one though; I still have lots to find even after stacking up nearly 5000 connected people - and it's not about numbers, it's about quality of research. Then again, with the concentration these days on Ancestry, FMP, Genes Reunited etc., how do people new to research find out about Rootsweb lists, unless by word of mouth? Anyway, love to know what others think. Best regards Graham Melbourne, Oz

Well now, here's a question no doubt the answer to which many Welshpersons will know. A very friendly lister recently took some photos in my Rogers stamping grounds of Welshpool and one of them was The Raven pub in Raven Square. On the outside of the pub is wording "Free House." That has me puzzled. Cheers Graham Melbourne Oz

I think they are only just over a mile apart or at least not much more, there is also a non-conformist chapel of some sort between them. Not sure if I have anyone with events at both churches but certainly some are at one and some at the other. LBP is often not marked on maps and even COFLEIN does not have an entry for the church. Best way to see them is to go to the Llanafan Fawr church on COFLEIN then bring up their BETA mapping and follow the road to the North East and you will see the church marked on the map. http://goo.gl/iXQGV I notice this in one report " Llanfihangel Bryn Pabuan is traditionally held to be a daughter church, or chapelry, of the major ecclesiastical site or mother church at neighbouring Llanafan Fawr. This would also reinforce the view that Llanfihangel could have an early medieval origin." It says the church is 13th Century but restored later. http://www.cpat.org.uk/ycom/breck/llanfihangelbrynpabuan.pdf Someone more knowledgeable can probably say but I wonder if a chapelry could not do all the all ceremonies and some had to be done at the main church? Martin Briscoe Fort William martin@mbriscoe.me.uk -----Original Message----- From: powys-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:powys-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Peggy Sue Sent: 02 October 2012 12:05 To: POWYS@rootsweb.com Subject: [POWYS] BRE- Llanfihangels Bryn Pabuan and Llanafan Fawr? Hi, Can anyone tell me how close these two BRE locations are? Does it make any kind of sense that children of one couple would be baptized in both places? I'm casting about in search of a family for my 3X great-grandfather, David Hamon, who according to the 1851 census was born in Breconshire. All records to date, including marriage, put him in Mons. Thanks for any help, Margaret

Thanks Ann Best wishes, Sue

Hello Stewart. Surprising who we find on these groups. Dorothy ________________________________ From: Stewart Heywood <stewartheywood@yahoo.co.uk> To: "powys@rootsweb.com" <powys@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2012, 11:02 Subject: Re: [POWYS] POWYS Digest, Vol 7, Issue 152 Hi Graham,   British pubs are run in three basic ways....   A Managed House - Building and business owned by the brewery - but run by a manager who earns a wage for the job. Tenanted - Building owned by the brewery - Business owned by the tenant who pays rent to the brewery but is 'tied' to selling that brewery's products. Free Trade - Building and business owned by the individual (or partnership etc) - No 'ties' unless by choice to get preferential prices etc... FREE to TRADE with whichever brewery/breweries they choose.  This gives them more bargaining power as breweries compete for the business.   People joining the 'trade' will usually begin as a manager (and make mistakes with the brewery money whilst on a wage), and then move up the ladder with Free Trade as their ultimate goal.   Stewart ________________________________   ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 13:07:35 +1000 From: Graham Price <genetree@tpg.com.au> Subject: Re: [POWYS] Powys List Activity Stats - September 2012 To: powys@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <201210020307.q9237m2M012095@mail14.tpg.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Well now, here's a question no doubt the answer to which many Welshpersons will know. A very friendly lister recently took some photos in my Rogers stamping grounds of Welshpool and one of them was The Raven pub in Raven Square. On the outside of the pub is wording "Free House." That has me puzzled. Cheers Graham Melbourne Oz =================== Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POWYS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Roderick, Thanks for that. So easy, I should have spotted it. Best wishes, Sue

Hi Graham,   British pubs are run in three basic ways....   A Managed House - Building and business owned by the brewery - but run by a manager who earns a wage for the job. Tenanted - Building owned by the brewery - Business owned by the tenant who pays rent to the brewery but is 'tied' to selling that brewery's products. Free Trade - Building and business owned by the individual (or partnership etc) - No 'ties' unless by choice to get preferential prices etc... FREE to TRADE with whichever brewery/breweries they choose.  This gives them more bargaining power as breweries compete for the business.   People joining the 'trade' will usually begin as a manager (and make mistakes with the brewery money whilst on a wage), and then move up the ladder with Free Trade as their ultimate goal.   Stewart ________________________________   ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 13:07:35 +1000 From: Graham Price <genetree@tpg.com.au> Subject: Re: [POWYS] Powys List Activity Stats - September 2012 To: powys@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <201210020307.q9237m2M012095@mail14.tpg.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Well now, here's a question no doubt the answer to which many Welshpersons will know. A very friendly lister recently took some photos in my Rogers stamping grounds of Welshpool and one of them was The Raven pub in Raven Square. On the outside of the pub is wording "Free House." That has me puzzled. Cheers Graham Melbourne Oz

Dear All, As you say there has not been much activity I would like to ask some clever person what the word (em'ee) means after a person's name on census records. Thanking you in anticipation. Sue in Suffolk

Dear Listers, Now that the List has wakened from its slumbers, can I gently remind everyone to make sure the Subject line of your message is relevant to the content of the message. Having a relevant subject line makes searching of the List Archives much more fruitful. I quote from the "Do's and Don'ts" on the Powys List webpage <www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm>: Subject Lines - Always make the subject line meaningful, and if appropriate, indicate which county is involved by using the abbreviations BRE, MGY or RAD; e.g. BRE, Defynnog, Havard, 1819. Powys List archives are available at: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/POWYS Click the 'Search' link on the far right of the archives page to display the Archives Search Engine. To access the archives of other mailing lists, go to http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/ and enter the name of the list you are seeking. You do not need to subscribe to a list in order to study and search its archives. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK Administrator - Powys RootsWeb mailing list E-mail: john@jlb2011.co.uk Personal Homepage: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/wales/ Joint Webmaster, Breconshire Local & Family History Society http://www.blfhs.co.uk/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/

Martin, Thank you for the information. Lots of oral history has come down through my family about MONS and GLAM, but nothing about BRE. I so appreciate the resources you've provided. A mile or so doesn't seem much distance, making me more comfortable with the idea that this is all the same family (BP is Llanfihangel Bryn Pabuan, and the dates are christenings): Charles Hammond married Margaret Williams 17th Nov 1757 at Llan Avan Fawr (Llanafan Fawr), both of competant age, signed by X for both. Children of marriage. 1758 Margaret Hamon, Llanafan Fawr 1763 David Hamon, BP (died in childhood?) 1767 David Hamon, BP 1771 Thomas Hamon, Llanafan Fawr 1774 Hannah Hamon, BP 1778 James Hamon, BP Hoping to connect this family, if possible and true, to my David Hamon, b abt 1809, BRE. Margaret On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 7:30 AM, Martin Briscoe <martin@mbriscoe.me.uk>wrote: > I think they are only just over a mile apart or at least not much more, > there is also a non-conformist chapel of some sort between them. > > Not sure if I have anyone with events at both churches but certainly some > are at one and some at the other. > > LBP is often not marked on maps and even COFLEIN does not have an entry for > the church. Best way to see them is to go to the Llanafan Fawr church on > COFLEIN then bring up their BETA mapping and follow the road to the North > East and you will see the church marked on the map. > > http://goo.gl/iXQGV > > > > > I notice this in one report > > " Llanfihangel Bryn Pabuan is traditionally held to be a daughter church, > or > chapelry, of the > major ecclesiastical site or mother church at neighbouring Llanafan Fawr. > This would also > reinforce the view that Llanfihangel could have an early medieval origin." > > It says the church is 13th Century but restored later. > > http://www.cpat.org.uk/ycom/breck/llanfihangelbrynpabuan.pdf > > > > > Someone more knowledgeable can probably say but I wonder if a chapelry > could > not do all the all ceremonies and some had to be done at the main church? > > > > > > Martin Briscoe > Fort William > martin@mbriscoe.me.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > From: powys-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:powys-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Peggy Sue > Sent: 02 October 2012 12:05 > To: POWYS@rootsweb.com > Subject: [POWYS] BRE- Llanfihangels Bryn Pabuan and Llanafan Fawr? > > Hi, > > Can anyone tell me how close these two BRE locations are? Does it make > any kind > of sense that children of one couple would be baptized in both places? > > I'm casting about in search of a family for my 3X great-grandfather, David > Hamon, who according to the 1851 census was born in Breconshire. All > records to date, including marriage, put him in Mons. > > Thanks for any help, > Margaret > > > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POWYS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > -- Luzerne County, Pennsylvania, Families: AMOS, CHARLES, DAVIES, FISHER, HENRY, PRICE, RAUGH/ROUGH, REESE, WAGNER Monmouthshire Families: AMOS/HAMON, REES Glamorganshire Families: DAVIS/DAVIES, COLLINS (also Ireland), REESE Cardiganshire Families: GRIFFITHS, THOMAS Dutch and German Families: UPDYKE, DIETRICH, GRANTZ

Hi, Can anyone tell me how close these two BRE locations are? Does it make any kind of sense that children of one couple would be baptized in both places? I'm casting about in search of a family for my 3X great-grandfather, David Hamon, who according to the 1851 census was born in Breconshire. All records to date, including marriage, put him in Mons. Thanks for any help, Margaret -- Luzerne County, Pennsylvania, Families: AMOS, CHARLES, DAVIES, FISHER, HENRY, PRICE, RAUGH/ROUGH, REESE, WAGNER Monmouthshire Families: AMOS/HAMON, REES Glamorganshire Families: DAVIS/DAVIES, COLLINS (also Ireland), REESE Cardiganshire Families: GRIFFITHS, THOMAS Dutch and German Families: UPDYKE, DIETRICH, GRANTZ

Employee? On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 6:00 AM, Sue <sue.cartref@virgin.net> wrote: > Dear All, > > As you say there has not been much activity I would like to ask some clever > person what the word (em'ee) means after a person's name on census records. > > Thanking you in anticipation. > > Sue in Suffolk > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POWYS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

A free house isn't tied to a brewery eliz On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 11:07 PM, Graham Price <genetree@tpg.com.au> wrote: > > Well now, here's a question no doubt the answer to which many > Welshpersons will know. > A very friendly lister recently took some photos in my Rogers > stamping grounds of Welshpool and one of them was The Raven pub in > Raven Square. On the outside of the pub is wording "Free House." That > has me puzzled. > Cheers > Graham > Melbourne > Oz > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POWYS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >