Hi Lynne That sounds very likely, especially as both a Mary Hamer and an Edward Davies are there !! Thanks so much. Natalie ________________________________ From: edward <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Mon, 4 October, 2010 22:48:46 Subject: [POWYS] [Powys] Dwelling Place name query Hi Natalie, In the 1861 census, a Mary Hamer of right age is working at Garthfach Farm House ,Eskirmaen.ref RG09/4248/ 43/12. she is a dairymaid also there is an Edward Davies 1830 st Harmon Radnor Labourer. They are working for Thomas Whildin Price and his brother Evan joint farmers of 150 acres.Next door to the Lodge and Elizabeth Thomas. Could this be your Southfach ? Lynne. =================== Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Natalie Your Mary (1839-1915) was the daughter of Richard Hamer (1804-43) and brought up at Trefloge fach, an 8 acre smallholding (see 1851 census). Its very close to both the chapel and to Garth fach already mentioned, where she and Edward (b St Harmon 1829-96) were in 1861. Both properties, (as well as the adjacent Garth fawr where my Hamer great grandfather was born), have longstanding links with the same interconnected families, its often difficult to distinguish Hamers in this parish. My best guess is that "Southfach" is a transcription error for one of the two?? regards Jon Lloyd Cardiff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Natalie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:45 PM Subject: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > Dear Listers > > I have recently received the marriage certificate of my GGG Grandparents, > Edward > Davies and Mary Hamer who married by Banns in Banhadlog Chapel, > Montgomeryshire > on 20th May 1864. > > > Both gave their place of residence at the time of the marriage as > "Southfach". > Does anyone know where this is, or the correct spelling of the dwelling it > refers to ? > > This strikes me as an unusual combination of English and Welsh in one > word! A > Google search reveals nothing. > > In 1871 the couple and their 3 young children lived at Penddol, Cennarth, > St > Harmon, Radnorshire, so perhaps 'Southfach' is in this vicinity ?? > > Any suggestions appreciated .. > > Thanks, > Natalie > South Wales. > > > > > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Sue, Elizabeth .D. MADDY to Thomas DAVIES mch qtr 1945 Pontypridd . 11a 1034. Lynne. (FBMD) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 5:01 PM Subject: [POWYS] Maddy > > Hi everyone, > > My problem is that I have an Elizabeth Dorothy Maddy born 1891 Brecknock > (Cross Oak, Talybont on Usk) who is in the 1911 Census still living at > home aged 20. According to her gravestone she became Elizabeth Dorothy > Davies some time after 1911 but I have searched Find my Past and FreeBMD > but there does not appear to be a marriage for her to anybody named > Davies. > > Can anyone help please? > > Best wishes > > Sue in Suffolk > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi everyone, My problem is that I have an Elizabeth Dorothy Maddy born 1891 Brecknock (Cross Oak, Talybont on Usk) who is in the 1911 Census still living at home aged 20. According to her gravestone she became Elizabeth Dorothy Davies some time after 1911 but I have searched Find my Past and FreeBMD but there does not appear to be a marriage for her to anybody named Davies. Can anyone help please? Best wishes Sue in Suffolk

There is a book compiled by Georgina Stafford, it is a guide for counsellors, adopted people and birth parents entitled where to find 'ADOPTION RECORDS' , which list records for Wales ,Scotland and England. I an not certain but I think that compulsory adoption records were not enforced until about 1934, before that it was the church or the Poor Law Board or private agencies. ________________________________ From: Simon Smith <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, 5 October, 2010 14:14:24 Subject: Re: [POWYS] Adoptions Hi Robert I am not totally sure of the date but before 1912 or 1929 there were no formal records kept of adoptions.  So at the time you are looking at the best that you can hope for is an entry in the parish records where the child lived, as it was the church who in general seems to have arranged adoptions. Regards Simon ----- Hello Everyone, I am wondering if any one knows what public records are kept in adoptions? I have a grt Uncle and Aunt that adopted an out of wedlock child Albert Edward Jones born 1 March 1870 in Llanafan fawr. On the 1871 census Albert Jones is listed as a border, illegitimate. He is listed as Albert Edward Price a son on the 1881 census and as Albert Price adopted son on the 1891 census. On the 1911 census Albert is married and living in the Beulah area. Thank you Robert Price =================== Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi list I also have fostered ancestors. David and Elizabeth EVANS [ both aged 25] of Little House Colva & their 3 children Elizabeth,John & Reese were found on the 1841 census. But no trace on the 1851 census anywhere in Wales but there is a 12 year old Elizabeth EVANS born Colva working as a servant on a farm in Llanfihangel Nant-Melan which fits. Also there is a 'foster child' named Rees EVANS living with a Thomas & Mary WILLIAMS in Upper Ffynonny in Colva, but Rees's age is given as 5. This could be a transcription error as Rees would be 11. Or perhaps, as the WILLIAMS were fostering, the age may have been rounded down on purpose or because the parish did not know his age, as a child under 8 would be helped by the parish. A very loose subject this fostering. My grandmother was fostered back in 1876 and by the 1901 census she was married, her husband was named as 'head' & living with them were her foster parents John & Dinah RENDLE named as ' father in law & mother in law.

Thank you David, Simon, and Shirley for your answers and questions. I believe the Welsh people in general are a very charitable lot. While researching my Welsh family I have been impressed with the way family members have pitched in to take care of orphans or children that only had one parent. My own grt grandmother was looked after by her grandmother (who was a widow herself), aunts and uncles when her father was lost at sea and her mother struggled to take care of 4 daughters. I suspected there was no formal adoption process in the 1800's. Thanks Again, Robert   ________________________________ From: DAVID JONES <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, October 5, 2010 10:46:37 AM Subject: Re: [POWYS] Adoptions There is a book compiled by Georgina Stafford, it is a guide for counsellors, adopted people and birth parents entitled where to find 'ADOPTION RECORDS' , which list records for Wales ,Scotland and England. I an not certain but I think that compulsory adoption records were not enforced until about 1934, before that it was the church or the Poor Law Board or private agencies. ________________________________ From: Simon Smith <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, 5 October, 2010 14:14:24 Subject: Re: [POWYS] Adoptions Hi Robert I am not totally sure of the date but before 1912 or 1929 there were no formal records kept of adoptions.  So at the time you are looking at the best that you can hope for is an entry in the parish records where the child lived, as it was the church who in general seems to have arranged adoptions. Regards Simon ----- Hello Everyone, I am wondering if any one knows what public records are kept in adoptions? I have a grt Uncle and Aunt that adopted an out of wedlock child Albert Edward Jones born 1 March 1870 in Llanafan fawr. On the 1871 census Albert Jones is listed as a border, illegitimate. He is listed as Albert Edward Price a son on the 1881 census and as Albert Price adopted son on the 1891 census. On the 1911 census Albert is married and living in the Beulah area. Thank you Robert Price =================== Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message =================== Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear all, Thanks - I am interested by this query, and this reply, as I also have in my tree a 'foster daughter' (1881 census) who becomes a 'daughter', with altered surname, in 1891. Could I add a related question, which has intrigued me for a while: what seems to be the scope of the term 'Nursing child' (or 'Child at nurse) in nineteenth-century BRE, RAD and MGY censuses? Does it normally extend to foster-children in general as well, presumably, as children who are being wet-nursed? I have come across several examples of a child so described (with a different surname from the rest of the family) where there seems to be no obvious candidate in the household to be the nursing mother. Perhaps a child who was originally being wet-nursed stayed on in an informal fostering arrangement...? (Like Robert, I have also come across the term 'Boarder - illegitimate' - also, I think, In BRE.) And to follow up from Simon's answer about church involvement, was fostering a parish arrangement, and were households paid for this? I should be grateful for any information and suggestions for further reading. Thanks! Shirley ________________________________ From: [email protected] on behalf of Simon Smith Sent: Tue 05/10/2010 14:14 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [POWYS] Adoptions Hi Robert I am not totally sure of the date but before 1912 or 1929 there were no formal records kept of adoptions. So at the time you are looking at the best that you can hope for is an entry in the parish records where the child lived, as it was the church who in general seems to have arranged adoptions. Regards Simon ----- Hello Everyone, I am wondering if any one knows what public records are kept in adoptions? I have a grt Uncle and Aunt that adopted an out of wedlock child Albert Edward Jones born 1 March 1870 in Llanafan fawr. On the 1871 census Albert Jones is listed as a border, illegitimate. He is listed as Albert Edward Price a son on the 1881 census and as Albert Price adopted son on the 1891 census. On the 1911 census Albert is married and living in the Beulah area. Thank you Robert Price =================== Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Robert I am not totally sure of the date but before 1912 or 1929 there were no formal records kept of adoptions. So at the time you are looking at the best that you can hope for is an entry in the parish records where the child lived, as it was the church who in general seems to have arranged adoptions. Regards Simon ----- Hello Everyone, I am wondering if any one knows what public records are kept in adoptions? I have a grt Uncle and Aunt that adopted an out of wedlock child Albert Edward Jones born 1 March 1870 in Llanafan fawr. On the 1871 census Albert Jones is listed as a border, illegitimate. He is listed as Albert Edward Price a son on the 1881 census and as Albert Price adopted son on the 1891 census. On the 1911 census Albert is married and living in the Beulah area. Thank you Robert Price

Hi Dave ,' Fraid not Lynne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Matthews" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 3:42 AM Subject: Re: [POWYS] re MGY-LlandinamEskirmaen-Elizabeth THOMAS andGrandsonEdwin Meredith > > Hi Lynne, > > Thanks for that bit of info on Thomas Meredith. > > Do the marriage details confirm that Sarah's father was James Thomas of > Lodge? > > > Dave in Oz > Lynne wrote: > > > Thomas Meredith married Sarah Thomas by licence St Llonio Llandinam > witnessess Stephen Pugh and Elizabeth Thomas. > Parents of Thomas , Thomas and Ann (nee Edwards.) > > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi Natalie, In the 1861 census, a Mary Hamer of right age is working at Garthfach Farm House ,Eskirmaen.ref RG09/4248/ 43/12. she is a dairymaid also there is an Edward Davies 1830 st Harmon Radnor Labourer. They are working for Thomas Whildin Price and his brother Evan joint farmers of 150 acres.Next door to the Lodge and Elizabeth Thomas. Could this be your Southfach ? Lynne.

Dear Listers I have recently received the marriage certificate of my GGG Grandparents, Edward Davies and Mary Hamer who married by Banns in Banhadlog Chapel, Montgomeryshire on 20th May 1864. Both gave their place of residence at the time of the marriage as "Southfach". Does anyone know where this is, or the correct spelling of the dwelling it refers to ? This strikes me as an unusual combination of English and Welsh in one word! A Google search reveals nothing. In 1871 the couple and their 3 young children lived at Penddol, Cennarth, St Harmon, Radnorshire, so perhaps 'Southfach' is in this vicinity ?? Any suggestions appreciated .. Thanks, Natalie South Wales.

Hi Lynne, Thanks for that bit of info on Thomas Meredith. Do the marriage details confirm that Sarah's father was James Thomas of Lodge? Dave in Oz Lynne wrote: Thomas Meredith married Sarah Thomas by licence St Llonio Llandinam witnessess Stephen Pugh and Elizabeth Thomas. Parents of Thomas , Thomas and Ann (nee Edwards.)

Hello Everyone, I am wondering if any one knows what public records are kept in adoptions?  I have a grt Uncle and Aunt that adopted an out of wedlock child Albert Edward Jones born 1 March 1870 in Llanafan fawr. On the 1871 census Albert Jones is listed as a border, illegitimate. He is listed as Albert Edward Price a son on the 1881 census and as Albert Price adopted son on the 1891 census. On the 1911 census Albert is married and living in the Beulah area. Thank you Robert Price

Thomas Meredith married Sarah Thomas by licence St Llonio Llandinam witnessess Stephen Pugh and Elizabeth Thomas. Parents of Thomas , Thomas and Ann (nee Edwards.) Lynne.

Hi Susan, John has taken the words straight out of my mouth<vbg> I too, thought it to be Trallwng ,I think its about 4-5 miles from Merthyr Cynog which is where his wife was from. I'm sure will correct me if I am wrong. Lynne.

Susan Larkin <[email protected]> wrote: Thank you, Lynn. I have not been able to pinpoint any reference of PRAKURN. In 1851 census of Breckonshire, Llanthetty, dst. 5 at 40 College: LLOYD, Watkin, 69, agent on coal wharf, born Brecon, PRAKURN LLOYD, Margaret, 68, wiife, born Brecon, Merthyr Cynong LLOYD, Thomas, 34, corn merchant, born Brecon, Llywell =========== Dear Susan, I think the first letter is a T (not P), and I think the place-name is Trallwng (also spelt Trallong), but spelt without the terminal 'g'. Trallwng is a Breconshire parish in the Usk Valley, five miles west of Brecon town. See http://www.genuki.org.uk/BRE/Trallwng/ Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK E-mail: [email protected] John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/ Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists

A HUGE thank you to both Lynne and John as I would never had connected the two names! I am very appreciative of the help from the list. Susan Larkin -----Original Message----- From: John Ball <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sun, Oct 3, 2010 2:36 pm Subject: Re: [POWYS] Place-name query PRAKURN Susan Larkin <[email protected]> wrote: Thank you, Lynn. I have not been able to pinpoint any reference of PRAKURN. In 1851 census of Breckonshire, Llanthetty, dst. 5 at 40 College: LLOYD, Watkin, 69, agent on coal wharf, born Brecon, PRAKURN LLOYD, Margaret, 68, wiife, born Brecon, Merthyr Cynong LLOYD, Thomas, 34, corn merchant, born Brecon, Llywell =========== Dear Susan, I think the first letter is a T (not P), and I think the place-name is Trallwng (also spelt Trallong), but spelt without the terminal 'g'. Trallwng is a Breconshire parish in the Usk Valley, five miles west of Brecon town. See http://www.genuki.org.uk/BRE/Trallwng/ Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK E-mail: [email protected] John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/ Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists =================== Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Photos of: Greig Zion Chapel, Grosmont, MON Dear Listers, The latest subject to be added to my 'Welsh Churches and Chapels Collection' is: Zion Primitive Methodist Chapel, Greig, Grosmont, Monmouthshire (photography by Steve Vesey) Go to www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/churches/ and search the index for the Grosmont link. If you know anything about the history of this chapel, please contact me. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK E-mail: [email protected] John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/ Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists

Thank you, Lynn. I have not been able to pinpoint any reference of PRAKURN. In 1851 census of Breckonshire, Llanthetty, dst. 5 at 40 College: LLOYD, Watkin, 69, agent on coal wharf, born Brecon, PRAKURN LLOYD, Margaret, 68, wiife, born Brecon, Merthyr Cynong LLOYD, Thomas, 34, corn merchant, born Brecon, Llywell Any help is very much appreciated. Susan Larkin -----Original Message----- From: edward <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:57 pm Subject: [POWYS] Place-name query PRAKURN Hi Susan , Which census and what is the census reference , Maybe we could take a look. Lynne. =================== Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message