Take a look at my web page on just this topic at http://www.jimella.nildram.co.uk/counties.htm It is mainly based on my knowledge of England rather than Wales but (subject to correction by those more knowledgeable of Wales) I don't think the differences are very great, if there are any. Regards, Jim Fisher On 11 Oct 2010 at 10:30, Mary Harding wrote: > Greetings. I am new to the list and have much to learn, but eager to > begin. > > I would appreciate any help that can be offered as to understanding > the system of parishes, townships, provinces, etc. I understand these > have been redrawn over the years--but I am lost at this time. > > Also, I am searching for two families: Edmonds, believe to be of > Beguildy, and Harding (for which I have not barely a clue). I am > enclosing what is known or suspected below, and would appreciate any > suggestions for further research. > > I am searching for *Thomas Edmonds*, born circa 1805-09. Son of > Thomas and Jane Loyd Edmonds. Siblings: John and Jane. > > Birth Dates cited include: 6 April, 1805 (biography), 7 April, 1808 > (headstone), 1809 (1851 Wales Census, if correct). > > Married *Mary Evans*, born 1804-1808, according to his biography > published in the USA. Her parents unknown. > > Children include: Mary (1833), Margaret, (?), Jane (1840), Anne > (?) Jonathan (1842), Edwin (1845), Elizabeth (1848) and Sarah (1850). > Mary married *William Harding*, likely after arriving in Wisconsin, > USA as > first child known to that union was born in 1856. > > Reputed to have sailed from Liverpool in 1851 and arrived New York. > > A family that appears a likely match is documented in the 1851 Wales > Census: > Radnorshire>Creigbyther>District 1a>7. This shows that Thomas was > born in > Beguildy and his wife Mary was born in LLangunlllo. Children all born > in Beguildy. > > Thank you very much in advance for any assistance that can be offered. > If I can in anyway return a research service here, please do not > hesitate. Kind regards, > > Mary Ann Harding > Lincoln Nebraska USA > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Greetings. I am new to the list and have much to learn, but eager to begin. I would appreciate any help that can be offered as to understanding the system of parishes, townships, provinces, etc. I understand these have been redrawn over the years--but I am lost at this time. Also, I am searching for two families: Edmonds, believe to be of Beguildy, and Harding (for which I have not barely a clue). I am enclosing what is known or suspected below, and would appreciate any suggestions for further research. I am searching for *Thomas Edmonds*, born circa 1805-09. Son of Thomas and Jane Loyd Edmonds. Siblings: John and Jane. Birth Dates cited include: 6 April, 1805 (biography), 7 April, 1808 (headstone), 1809 (1851 Wales Census, if correct). Married *Mary Evans*, born 1804-1808, according to his biography published in the USA. Her parents unknown. Children include: Mary (1833), Margaret, (?), Jane (1840), Anne (?) Jonathan (1842), Edwin (1845), Elizabeth (1848) and Sarah (1850). Mary married *William Harding*, likely after arriving in Wisconsin, USA as first child known to that union was born in 1856. Reputed to have sailed from Liverpool in 1851 and arrived New York. A family that appears a likely match is documented in the 1851 Wales Census: Radnorshire>Creigbyther>District 1a>7. This shows that Thomas was born in Beguildy and his wife Mary was born in LLangunlllo. Children all born in Beguildy. Thank you very much in advance for any assistance that can be offered. If I can in anyway return a research service here, please do not hesitate. Kind regards, Mary Ann Harding Lincoln Nebraska USA

Dear Listers, The Brecknock Goup website is now displaying photographs taken at the Powys Family History Society AGM at Llandrindod Wells yesterday. Go to www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/ and follow the 'Photogallery' link. The event , which combined the AGM with a celebration of the 30th Anniversary of the founding of the Powys FHS, was well attended, and the photos will help you put faces to some well known names in the Powys FHS. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK E-mail: [email protected] John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/ Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists

To Powys FHS Congratulations on first 30 years and best wishes for continued success. Wishing all members and visitors an informative and pleasant day.(Wish I could be there!) Kind regards, Dawn Stanton (Tas.)

I would like to thank everyone who helped me by translating the letter my greatgrandmother wrote to her son in the USA about the sad death of her other son, my grandfather. It was very interesting to see the various translations, all similar but none identical. In particular I thank Elizabeth of EMGS Demon  account, Yvonne Evans, Glyn Davies and Maureen Saycell. I have sent all the various translations to descendants of the son in the USA. Thank you all very much. It might interest you to know that my contact in the States has now found a newspaper account of my grandfather's life and work  in a journal called "Y Tyst" and in another called "Cronicl Annibynwyr Llanbrynmair a'r Cylch".  These are rather long articles and I hesitate to ask anyone to translate them for me without payment for their trouble. Margaret

Thanks so much for this information Jon and the Garthfach identification, it's much appreciated. Maybe one day I will find a link to these Hamers ... !! Kind regards, Natalie ________________________________ From: Jonathan Lloyd <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, 7 October, 2010 13:05:39 Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' Hi Natalie The will I mentioned is that of Thomas Hamer Trefloge, Llandinam, bachelor made 17th April 1828 and proved 12 June 1830 with witnesses James Hamer and John Thomas. legacies to my sister Margaret Hamer wife of Thomas Davies £10 to my sister Elizabeth Bennett widow £5 to my sister Mariah Hamer single woman £5 to my niece Mary wife of John Jones Trefloge £10 and bed and furniture in consideration of her trouble in attending me in my illness residue to my brother Richard Hamer of Pant I'm not 100% certain if this refers to Pantpoeth or Pant(yddewispaen) both having Hamer links in the parish - then again so do Pantynysbren, Pant cae and Pant y dwr! best wishes Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Natalie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > Hi Jon > > I'm sure I'm right now too with my gravestone ! A Thomas Hamer is a > witness on > marriage certificate so another confirmation. > > > Although Brynhafod sounds familiar, I don't think our Hamers are related ? > I > think I just know the name from searching through Hamer families over the > years. > > > > I have a record of the children of David Hamer and Sarah Lloyd, but have > 10 > rather than 9 .. > > I would be interested to have any more details from the will. I only have > David > Hamer of Pantpoeth and think his parents were a James Hamer and Anne. > > There must be a link between my two lots of Hamers at Pantpoeth and > Treflogue, > and the two you mention in the will ! > > Thanks & regards, > Natalie > > > > ________________________________ > From: Jonathan Lloyd <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wed, 6 October, 2010 18:15:10 > Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > > > Hi Natalie > > I'm sure you have the right gravestone, and have seen other examples of a > father named on a > marriage certificate without mentioning his decease. I don't think the > family mentioned on Ancestry are linked for now. > > Briefly my Hamer born at Garthfawr 1864 was the son of Jane Hamer, the > family being tenants at Cynidfa, > itself owned by Brynhafod which was farmed by Jane's brother John. > > If it helps I have an 1830 will of Thomas Hamer, Trefloge leaving property > to his brother Richard of Pantpoeth, > and a note of the 9 Pantpoeth children of David Hamer (1833-) & Sarah > Lloyd > (1845-). > > regards > > Jon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Natalie" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 8:55 PM > Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > > >> Hi Jon >> >> I had thought that Mary Hamer was the daughter of Richard Hamer >> (1804-1843) and >> Mary Owens after I found a gravestone at Newchapel Baptist Church. It >> also >> mentions a son Thomas. >> >> >> However when I received Mary Hamer's marriage certificate to Edward >> Davies >> in >> 1864 it does not list the father Richard as deceased, which made me >> question >> whether the gravestone was the correct one for my family. >> >> >> Having searched various censuses on Ancestry this week I have found a >> family - >> Richard Hamer and Mary, with a daughter Mary (in 1841/51 & 61) as >> follows: >> 1841 - Lived at Tynaberth, (Township of) Gollon, Parish of Abbeycwmhir >> with wife >> and son. >> 1851 - Lived at Noyadd, (Township of) Trecoed with wife and 4 children. >> Farmer >> of 274 acres with 2 farm labourers and a servant. >> 1861 - Lived at Noyadd, (Township of) Trecoed with wife and 6 children. >> Farmer >> of 272 acres with a servant and a cow man. >> 1871 - Lived at Coedgugan Hall, Llanbadarn Fawr with wife, 3 children and >> grandson. Farmer of 135 acres and 1 servant. >> 1881 - Lived at Pool Farm, ?Dewyfach, Breconshire with wife, brother >> David >> and >> son David. Farmer of 104 acres with 3 servants and a lodger. >> >> >> >> This fits as by 1871 Mary is married. But there is no son Thomas, so >> these >> can't >> be the people on the gravestone. >> >> >> Another lister Lynne, mentioned Garthfach Farm House, Eskirmaen - where >> both an >> Edward Davies and Mary Hamer are listed. This sounds very likely to be >> mis-transcribed as Southfach, and this Mary is a different one to that in >> Trecoed above ! >> >> It seems that although Richard Hamer was deceased at the time of daughter >> Mary's >> marriage, this is not recorded on the marriage certificate - is this >> quite >> a >> common occurrence ? >> >> I also have other Hamer's - David Hamer of Pantpoeth, also known as 'the >> crippled cobbler'. >> >> Who is your Hamer great grandfather ? >> >> Kind regards, >> Natalie >> >> Barry >> South Wales >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Jonathan Lloyd <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 18:59:09 >> Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' >> >> Hi Natalie >> >> Your Mary (1839-1915) was the daughter of Richard Hamer (1804-43) and >> brought up at >> Trefloge fach, an 8 acre smallholding (see 1851 census). Its very close >> to >> both the chapel and to Garth fach >> already mentioned, where she and Edward (b St Harmon 1829-96) were in >> 1861. >> Both properties, (as well as >> the adjacent Garth fawr where my Hamer great grandfather was born), have >> longstanding links with the >> same interconnected families, its often difficult to distinguish Hamers >> in >> this parish. >> My best guess is that "Southfach" is a transcription error for one of the >> two?? >> >> regards >> >> Jon Lloyd >> >> Cardiff >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Natalie" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:45 PM >> Subject: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' >> >> >>> Dear Listers >>> >>> I have recently received the marriage certificate of my GGG >>> Grandparents, >>> Edward >>> Davies and Mary Hamer who married by Banns in Banhadlog Chapel, >>> Montgomeryshire >>> on 20th May 1864. >>> >>> >>> Both gave their place of residence at the time of the marriage as >>> "Southfach". >>> Does anyone know where this is, or the correct spelling of the dwelling >>> it >>> refers to ? >>> >>> This strikes me as an unusual combination of English and Welsh in one >>> word! A >>> Google search reveals nothing. >>> >>> In 1871 the couple and their 3 young children lived at Penddol, >>> Cennarth, >>> St >>> Harmon, Radnorshire, so perhaps 'Southfach' is in this vicinity ?? >>> >>> Any suggestions appreciated .. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Natalie >>> South Wales. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> =================== >>> Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: >>> www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes >>> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> =================== >> Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: >> www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >> body >> of >> the message >> >> >> >> >> >> =================== >> Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: >> www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > > > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message =================== Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Edward Thomas Evans was the son of Jane nee Thomas and Edward Evans.He was born in 1851.Did he marry in Wales? If anyone is able to confirm this,it would be very much appreciated.Chris from NZ

Thank you John for the reminder re the AGM, regret to say I will not be able to make it, so please forward my apologies and congratulations on 30 years. Regards Dave Jones ________________________________ From: John Ball <[email protected]> To: Powys List <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, 7 October, 2010 10:41:39 Subject: [POWYS] Powys FHS AGM - Saturday 9 October Dear Listers, A reminder that the Powys Family History Society AGM is being held on Saturday, 9th October in Llandrindod Wells. The AGM will be combined with a celebration of the 30th Anniversary of the founding of the Powys FHS. The AGM will commence at 10:30 am and will be followed by a short talk on 'The Great Court Records' by genealogist and author Michael Gandy. After lunch, Michael Gandy will present his main talk, entitled 'Seeing it through their eyes'. The Powys FHS invites all members to attend the AGM, while non-members are welcome to enjoy the rest of the day's events. Full details were published in the August issue of 'Cronicl Powys', but see also in the 'News' section of the Brecknock Group website: www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/news.htm and on the main Powys FHS website: www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlspfhs/Pages/Events.html Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK E-mail: [email protected] John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/ Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists =================== Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Ruth, Thank you for that. It did cross my mind when someone gave me an Elizabeth Maddy marrying a Thomas Davies at Pontypridd in March 1945 that she was quite old to get married for the first time. The Thomas Jones Merthyr one sounds much more likely as a lot of my family were in the Valleys at that time and it is likely she visited from Breconshire. Also the Samuel Davies marriage is again feasible as I have reason to believe that they did eventually come to live in her father's house at Talybont and have stayed there recently where there are a lot of books and Bibles relating to a William Davies around 1901. Thank you for your help. Best wishes Sue

Hi Natalie The will I mentioned is that of Thomas Hamer Trefloge, Llandinam, bachelor made 17th April 1828 and proved 12 June 1830 with witnesses James Hamer and John Thomas. legacies to my sister Margaret Hamer wife of Thomas Davies £10 to my sister Elizabeth Bennett widow £5 to my sister Mariah Hamer single woman £5 to my niece Mary wife of John Jones Trefloge £10 and bed and furniture in consideration of her trouble in attending me in my illness residue to my brother Richard Hamer of Pant I'm not 100% certain if this refers to Pantpoeth or Pant(yddewispaen) both having Hamer links in the parish - then again so do Pantynysbren, Pant cae and Pant y dwr! best wishes Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Natalie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > Hi Jon > > I'm sure I'm right now too with my gravestone ! A Thomas Hamer is a > witness on > marriage certificate so another confirmation. > > > Although Brynhafod sounds familiar, I don't think our Hamers are related ? > I > think I just know the name from searching through Hamer families over the > years. > > > > I have a record of the children of David Hamer and Sarah Lloyd, but have > 10 > rather than 9 .. > > I would be interested to have any more details from the will. I only have > David > Hamer of Pantpoeth and think his parents were a James Hamer and Anne. > > There must be a link between my two lots of Hamers at Pantpoeth and > Treflogue, > and the two you mention in the will ! > > Thanks & regards, > Natalie > > > > ________________________________ > From: Jonathan Lloyd <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wed, 6 October, 2010 18:15:10 > Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > > > Hi Natalie > > I'm sure you have the right gravestone, and have seen other examples of a > father named on a > marriage certificate without mentioning his decease. I don't think the > family mentioned on Ancestry are linked for now. > > Briefly my Hamer born at Garthfawr 1864 was the son of Jane Hamer, the > family being tenants at Cynidfa, > itself owned by Brynhafod which was farmed by Jane's brother John. > > If it helps I have an 1830 will of Thomas Hamer, Trefloge leaving property > to his brother Richard of Pantpoeth, > and a note of the 9 Pantpoeth children of David Hamer (1833-) & Sarah > Lloyd > (1845-). > > regards > > Jon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Natalie" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 8:55 PM > Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > > >> Hi Jon >> >> I had thought that Mary Hamer was the daughter of Richard Hamer >> (1804-1843) and >> Mary Owens after I found a gravestone at Newchapel Baptist Church. It >> also >> mentions a son Thomas. >> >> >> However when I received Mary Hamer's marriage certificate to Edward >> Davies >> in >> 1864 it does not list the father Richard as deceased, which made me >> question >> whether the gravestone was the correct one for my family. >> >> >> Having searched various censuses on Ancestry this week I have found a >> family - >> Richard Hamer and Mary, with a daughter Mary (in 1841/51 & 61) as >> follows: >> 1841 - Lived at Tynaberth, (Township of) Gollon, Parish of Abbeycwmhir >> with wife >> and son. >> 1851 - Lived at Noyadd, (Township of) Trecoed with wife and 4 children. >> Farmer >> of 274 acres with 2 farm labourers and a servant. >> 1861 - Lived at Noyadd, (Township of) Trecoed with wife and 6 children. >> Farmer >> of 272 acres with a servant and a cow man. >> 1871 - Lived at Coedgugan Hall, Llanbadarn Fawr with wife, 3 children and >> grandson. Farmer of 135 acres and 1 servant. >> 1881 - Lived at Pool Farm, ?Dewyfach, Breconshire with wife, brother >> David >> and >> son David. Farmer of 104 acres with 3 servants and a lodger. >> >> >> >> This fits as by 1871 Mary is married. But there is no son Thomas, so >> these >> can't >> be the people on the gravestone. >> >> >> Another lister Lynne, mentioned Garthfach Farm House, Eskirmaen - where >> both an >> Edward Davies and Mary Hamer are listed. This sounds very likely to be >> mis-transcribed as Southfach, and this Mary is a different one to that in >> Trecoed above ! >> >> It seems that although Richard Hamer was deceased at the time of daughter >> Mary's >> marriage, this is not recorded on the marriage certificate - is this >> quite >> a >> common occurrence ? >> >> I also have other Hamer's - David Hamer of Pantpoeth, also known as 'the >> crippled cobbler'. >> >> Who is your Hamer great grandfather ? >> >> Kind regards, >> Natalie >> >> Barry >> South Wales >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Jonathan Lloyd <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 18:59:09 >> Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' >> >> Hi Natalie >> >> Your Mary (1839-1915) was the daughter of Richard Hamer (1804-43) and >> brought up at >> Trefloge fach, an 8 acre smallholding (see 1851 census). Its very close >> to >> both the chapel and to Garth fach >> already mentioned, where she and Edward (b St Harmon 1829-96) were in >> 1861. >> Both properties, (as well as >> the adjacent Garth fawr where my Hamer great grandfather was born), have >> longstanding links with the >> same interconnected families, its often difficult to distinguish Hamers >> in >> this parish. >> My best guess is that "Southfach" is a transcription error for one of the >> two?? >> >> regards >> >> Jon Lloyd >> >> Cardiff >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Natalie" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:45 PM >> Subject: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' >> >> >>> Dear Listers >>> >>> I have recently received the marriage certificate of my GGG >>> Grandparents, >>> Edward >>> Davies and Mary Hamer who married by Banns in Banhadlog Chapel, >>> Montgomeryshire >>> on 20th May 1864. >>> >>> >>> Both gave their place of residence at the time of the marriage as >>> "Southfach". >>> Does anyone know where this is, or the correct spelling of the dwelling >>> it >>> refers to ? >>> >>> This strikes me as an unusual combination of English and Welsh in one >>> word! A >>> Google search reveals nothing. >>> >>> In 1871 the couple and their 3 young children lived at Penddol, >>> Cennarth, >>> St >>> Harmon, Radnorshire, so perhaps 'Southfach' is in this vicinity ?? >>> >>> Any suggestions appreciated .. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Natalie >>> South Wales. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> =================== >>> Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: >>> www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes >>> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> =================== >> Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: >> www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >> body >> of >> the message >> >> >> >> >> >> =================== >> Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: >> www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > > > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Listers, A reminder that the Powys Family History Society AGM is being held on Saturday, 9th October in Llandrindod Wells. The AGM will be combined with a celebration of the 30th Anniversary of the founding of the Powys FHS. The AGM will commence at 10:30 am and will be followed by a short talk on 'The Great Court Records' by genealogist and author Michael Gandy. After lunch, Michael Gandy will present his main talk, entitled 'Seeing it through their eyes'. The Powys FHS invites all members to attend the AGM, while non-members are welcome to enjoy the rest of the day's events. Full details were published in the August issue of 'Cronicl Powys', but see also in the 'News' section of the Brecknock Group website: www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/news.htm and on the main Powys FHS website: www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlspfhs/Pages/Events.html Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK E-mail: [email protected] John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/ Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists

Sue in Suffolk <[email protected]> wrote: My problem is that I have an Elizabeth Dorothy Maddy born 1891 Brecknock (Cross Oak, Talybont on Usk) who is in the 1911 Census still living at home aged 20. According to her gravestone she became Elizabeth Dorothy Davies some time after 1911 but I have searched Find my Past and FreeBMD but there does not appear to be a marriage for her to anybody named Davies. ============== Dear Listers, An account of Sue's MADDY genealogical problem is included as a new addition to the 'Can You Help?' feature on the Brecknock Group website. To review the problem, go to the website's home page (www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/), follow the 'Resources' link, then the 'Can You Help?' link. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK E-mail: [email protected] John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/ Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists

Hi Sue Possibly your Elizabeth Dorothy Maddy married someone before Mr Davies & was widowed - so would have used the surname from her first marriage when re-marrying. Eg an Elizabeth Maddy married a Thomas Jones in the March qtr of 1916 (in the Merthyr Tydfil district) An Elizabeth D Jones married Samuel Davies in the Oswestry district in the June qtr 1922. (Info from FreeBMD) These Elizabeths may not be yours but my point is that it's worth looking for her under a different surname. There are loads of Elizabeth Joneses marrying Davies husbands, but the 1922 one mentioned a middle initial. I'm not sure of the geographical likelihoods but you may be able to narrow down some possibilities. Regards Ruth -----Original Message----- From: John Ball <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 8:46 Subject: Re: [POWYS] Maddy Sue in Suffolk <[email protected]> wrote: y problem is that I have an Elizabeth Dorothy Maddy born 1891 Brecknock Cross Oak, Talybont on Usk) who is in the 1911 Census still living at home ged 20. According to her gravestone she became Elizabeth Dorothy Davies ome time after 1911 but I have searched Find my Past and FreeBMD but there oes not appear to be a marriage for her to anybody named Davies. ============= Dear Listers, An account of Sue's MADDY genealogical problem is included as a new addition o the 'Can You Help?' feature on the Brecknock Group website. o review the problem, go to the website's home page www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/), follow the 'Resources' link, then the Can You Help?' link. Kind regards, ohn ------------------- ohn Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK -mail: [email protected] ohn's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ mages of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ elsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ recknock FH Group Webmaster: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/ oint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists ================== isit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

Hi Jon I'm sure I'm right now too with my gravestone ! A Thomas Hamer is a witness on marriage certificate so another confirmation. Although Brynhafod sounds familiar, I don't think our Hamers are related ? I think I just know the name from searching through Hamer families over the years. I have a record of the children of David Hamer and Sarah Lloyd, but have 10 rather than 9 .. I would be interested to have any more details from the will. I only have David Hamer of Pantpoeth and think his parents were a James Hamer and Anne. There must be a link between my two lots of Hamers at Pantpoeth and Treflogue, and the two you mention in the will ! Thanks & regards, Natalie ________________________________ From: Jonathan Lloyd <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, 6 October, 2010 18:15:10 Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' Hi Natalie I'm sure you have the right gravestone, and have seen other examples of a father named on a marriage certificate without mentioning his decease. I don't think the family mentioned on Ancestry are linked for now. Briefly my Hamer born at Garthfawr 1864 was the son of Jane Hamer, the family being tenants at Cynidfa, itself owned by Brynhafod which was farmed by Jane's brother John. If it helps I have an 1830 will of Thomas Hamer, Trefloge leaving property to his brother Richard of Pantpoeth, and a note of the 9 Pantpoeth children of David Hamer (1833-) & Sarah Lloyd (1845-). regards Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Natalie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > Hi Jon > > I had thought that Mary Hamer was the daughter of Richard Hamer > (1804-1843) and > Mary Owens after I found a gravestone at Newchapel Baptist Church. It also > mentions a son Thomas. > > > However when I received Mary Hamer's marriage certificate to Edward Davies > in > 1864 it does not list the father Richard as deceased, which made me > question > whether the gravestone was the correct one for my family. > > > Having searched various censuses on Ancestry this week I have found a > family - > Richard Hamer and Mary, with a daughter Mary (in 1841/51 & 61) as follows: > 1841 - Lived at Tynaberth, (Township of) Gollon, Parish of Abbeycwmhir > with wife > and son. > 1851 - Lived at Noyadd, (Township of) Trecoed with wife and 4 children. > Farmer > of 274 acres with 2 farm labourers and a servant. > 1861 - Lived at Noyadd, (Township of) Trecoed with wife and 6 children. > Farmer > of 272 acres with a servant and a cow man. > 1871 - Lived at Coedgugan Hall, Llanbadarn Fawr with wife, 3 children and > grandson. Farmer of 135 acres and 1 servant. > 1881 - Lived at Pool Farm, ?Dewyfach, Breconshire with wife, brother David > and > son David. Farmer of 104 acres with 3 servants and a lodger. > > > > This fits as by 1871 Mary is married. But there is no son Thomas, so these > can't > be the people on the gravestone. > > > Another lister Lynne, mentioned Garthfach Farm House, Eskirmaen - where > both an > Edward Davies and Mary Hamer are listed. This sounds very likely to be > mis-transcribed as Southfach, and this Mary is a different one to that in > Trecoed above ! > > It seems that although Richard Hamer was deceased at the time of daughter > Mary's > marriage, this is not recorded on the marriage certificate - is this quite > a > common occurrence ? > > I also have other Hamer's - David Hamer of Pantpoeth, also known as 'the > crippled cobbler'. > > Who is your Hamer great grandfather ? > > Kind regards, > Natalie > > Barry > South Wales > > > > ________________________________ > From: Jonathan Lloyd <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 18:59:09 > Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > > Hi Natalie > > Your Mary (1839-1915) was the daughter of Richard Hamer (1804-43) and > brought up at > Trefloge fach, an 8 acre smallholding (see 1851 census). Its very close to > both the chapel and to Garth fach > already mentioned, where she and Edward (b St Harmon 1829-96) were in > 1861. > Both properties, (as well as > the adjacent Garth fawr where my Hamer great grandfather was born), have > longstanding links with the > same interconnected families, its often difficult to distinguish Hamers in > this parish. > My best guess is that "Southfach" is a transcription error for one of the > two?? > > regards > > Jon Lloyd > > Cardiff > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Natalie" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:45 PM > Subject: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > > >> Dear Listers >> >> I have recently received the marriage certificate of my GGG Grandparents, >> Edward >> Davies and Mary Hamer who married by Banns in Banhadlog Chapel, >> Montgomeryshire >> on 20th May 1864. >> >> >> Both gave their place of residence at the time of the marriage as >> "Southfach". >> Does anyone know where this is, or the correct spelling of the dwelling >> it >> refers to ? >> >> This strikes me as an unusual combination of English and Welsh in one >> word! A >> Google search reveals nothing. >> >> In 1871 the couple and their 3 young children lived at Penddol, Cennarth, >> St >> Harmon, Radnorshire, so perhaps 'Southfach' is in this vicinity ?? >> >> Any suggestions appreciated .. >> >> Thanks, >> Natalie >> South Wales. >> >> >> >> >> >> =================== >> Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: >> www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > > > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message =================== Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Lynne, Thank you very much indeed. That has helped me a great deal. Obviously she was not very young when she married. Best wishes Sue

Hi Lynne Please do butt in, the more suggestions and info the better ! I do have the birth certificate for Mary Hamer [8 Oct 1838] (who married Edward Davies and was resident at 'Southfach' / Garthfach) and her parents are identified as Richard Hamer and Mary Owens. It's the fact that her father, Richard Hamer, named on her marriage certificate, but is not identified as deceased, that has almost thrown me off track ! Your 1861 reference below contains familiar sounding names and places ... I shall investigate further.. Many thanks & kind regards, Natalie ________________________________ From: edward <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, 6 October, 2010 10:33:46 Subject: [POWYS] re Dwelling Place Query -Mary HAMER Hi Natalie , Just a thought ,excuse me if I'm butting in , Could your Mary be the daughter of Richard HAMER and Mary (MEREDITH) married March 25th 1836 , by banns St Llonio Llandinam. Richard was deceased by 1851. 1861 widow Mary is living at Trelogaifach Farmhouse Dothenydd & Eskirmaen,with son Thomas 1838 Llandinam and nephew Richard HAMER 1854 Llandinam. Lynne. =================== Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Natalie I'm sure you have the right gravestone, and have seen other examples of a father named on a marriage certificate without mentioning his decease. I don't think the family mentioned on Ancestry are linked for now. Briefly my Hamer born at Garthfawr 1864 was the son of Jane Hamer, the family being tenants at Cynidfa, itself owned by Brynhafod which was farmed by Jane's brother John. If it helps I have an 1830 will of Thomas Hamer, Trefloge leaving property to his brother Richard of Pantpoeth, and a note of the 9 Pantpoeth children of David Hamer (1833-) & Sarah Lloyd (1845-). regards Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Natalie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > Hi Jon > > I had thought that Mary Hamer was the daughter of Richard Hamer > (1804-1843) and > Mary Owens after I found a gravestone at Newchapel Baptist Church. It also > mentions a son Thomas. > > > However when I received Mary Hamer's marriage certificate to Edward Davies > in > 1864 it does not list the father Richard as deceased, which made me > question > whether the gravestone was the correct one for my family. > > > Having searched various censuses on Ancestry this week I have found a > family - > Richard Hamer and Mary, with a daughter Mary (in 1841/51 & 61) as follows: > 1841 - Lived at Tynaberth, (Township of) Gollon, Parish of Abbeycwmhir > with wife > and son. > 1851 - Lived at Noyadd, (Township of) Trecoed with wife and 4 children. > Farmer > of 274 acres with 2 farm labourers and a servant. > 1861 - Lived at Noyadd, (Township of) Trecoed with wife and 6 children. > Farmer > of 272 acres with a servant and a cow man. > 1871 - Lived at Coedgugan Hall, Llanbadarn Fawr with wife, 3 children and > grandson. Farmer of 135 acres and 1 servant. > 1881 - Lived at Pool Farm, ?Dewyfach, Breconshire with wife, brother David > and > son David. Farmer of 104 acres with 3 servants and a lodger. > > > > This fits as by 1871 Mary is married. But there is no son Thomas, so these > can't > be the people on the gravestone. > > > Another lister Lynne, mentioned Garthfach Farm House, Eskirmaen - where > both an > Edward Davies and Mary Hamer are listed. This sounds very likely to be > mis-transcribed as Southfach, and this Mary is a different one to that in > Trecoed above ! > > It seems that although Richard Hamer was deceased at the time of daughter > Mary's > marriage, this is not recorded on the marriage certificate - is this quite > a > common occurrence ? > > I also have other Hamer's - David Hamer of Pantpoeth, also known as 'the > crippled cobbler'. > > Who is your Hamer great grandfather ? > > Kind regards, > Natalie > > Barry > South Wales > > > > ________________________________ > From: Jonathan Lloyd <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 18:59:09 > Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > > Hi Natalie > > Your Mary (1839-1915) was the daughter of Richard Hamer (1804-43) and > brought up at > Trefloge fach, an 8 acre smallholding (see 1851 census). Its very close to > both the chapel and to Garth fach > already mentioned, where she and Edward (b St Harmon 1829-96) were in > 1861. > Both properties, (as well as > the adjacent Garth fawr where my Hamer great grandfather was born), have > longstanding links with the > same interconnected families, its often difficult to distinguish Hamers in > this parish. > My best guess is that "Southfach" is a transcription error for one of the > two?? > > regards > > Jon Lloyd > > Cardiff > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Natalie" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:45 PM > Subject: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > > >> Dear Listers >> >> I have recently received the marriage certificate of my GGG Grandparents, >> Edward >> Davies and Mary Hamer who married by Banns in Banhadlog Chapel, >> Montgomeryshire >> on 20th May 1864. >> >> >> Both gave their place of residence at the time of the marriage as >> "Southfach". >> Does anyone know where this is, or the correct spelling of the dwelling >> it >> refers to ? >> >> This strikes me as an unusual combination of English and Welsh in one >> word! A >> Google search reveals nothing. >> >> In 1871 the couple and their 3 young children lived at Penddol, Cennarth, >> St >> Harmon, Radnorshire, so perhaps 'Southfach' is in this vicinity ?? >> >> Any suggestions appreciated .. >> >> Thanks, >> Natalie >> South Wales. >> >> >> >> >> >> =================== >> Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: >> www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > > > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Natalie , Just a thought ,excuse me if I'm butting in , Could your Mary be the daughter of Richard HAMER and Mary (MEREDITH) married March 25th 1836 , by banns St Llonio Llandinam. Richard was deceased by 1851. 1861 widow Mary is living at Trelogaifach Farmhouse Dothenydd & Eskirmaen,with son Thomas 1838 Llandinam and nephew Richard HAMER 1854 Llandinam. Lynne.

----- Original Message ----- From: "DAVID JONES" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 5:46 PM Subject: Re: [POWYS] Adoptions <<There is a book compiled by Georgina Stafford, it is a guide for counsellors, adopted people and birth parents entitled where to find 'ADOPTION RECORDS' , which list records for Wales ,Scotland and England. I an not certain but I think that compulsory adoption records were not enforced until about 1934, before that it was the church or the Poor Law Board or private agencies.>> It might sometimes also help to try the Adoption Search Reunion database: http://www.adoptionsearchreunion.org.uk/search/questions/ or http://www.adoptionsearchreunion.org.uk/search/adoptionrecords/ although such sources can never be fully comprehensive. The Adoption Register actually dates from 1927. Before that time adoption was a private arrangement, often with no more than an unrecorded verbal agreement between individual families, and not necessarily involving any other agencies. AJ

Hi Jon I had thought that Mary Hamer was the daughter of Richard Hamer (1804-1843) and Mary Owens after I found a gravestone at Newchapel Baptist Church. It also mentions a son Thomas. However when I received Mary Hamer's marriage certificate to Edward Davies in 1864 it does not list the father Richard as deceased, which made me question whether the gravestone was the correct one for my family. Having searched various censuses on Ancestry this week I have found a family - Richard Hamer and Mary, with a daughter Mary (in 1841/51 & 61) as follows: 1841 - Lived at Tynaberth, (Township of) Gollon, Parish of Abbeycwmhir with wife and son. 1851 - Lived at Noyadd, (Township of) Trecoed with wife and 4 children. Farmer of 274 acres with 2 farm labourers and a servant. 1861 - Lived at Noyadd, (Township of) Trecoed with wife and 6 children. Farmer of 272 acres with a servant and a cow man. 1871 - Lived at Coedgugan Hall, Llanbadarn Fawr with wife, 3 children and grandson. Farmer of 135 acres and 1 servant. 1881 - Lived at Pool Farm, ?Dewyfach, Breconshire with wife, brother David and son David. Farmer of 104 acres with 3 servants and a lodger. This fits as by 1871 Mary is married. But there is no son Thomas, so these can't be the people on the gravestone. Another lister Lynne, mentioned Garthfach Farm House, Eskirmaen - where both an Edward Davies and Mary Hamer are listed. This sounds very likely to be mis-transcribed as Southfach, and this Mary is a different one to that in Trecoed above ! It seems that although Richard Hamer was deceased at the time of daughter Mary's marriage, this is not recorded on the marriage certificate - is this quite a common occurrence ? I also have other Hamer's - David Hamer of Pantpoeth, also known as 'the crippled cobbler'. Who is your Hamer great grandfather ? Kind regards, Natalie Barry South Wales ________________________________ From: Jonathan Lloyd <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 18:59:09 Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' Hi Natalie Your Mary (1839-1915) was the daughter of Richard Hamer (1804-43) and brought up at Trefloge fach, an 8 acre smallholding (see 1851 census). Its very close to both the chapel and to Garth fach already mentioned, where she and Edward (b St Harmon 1829-96) were in 1861. Both properties, (as well as the adjacent Garth fawr where my Hamer great grandfather was born), have longstanding links with the same interconnected families, its often difficult to distinguish Hamers in this parish. My best guess is that "Southfach" is a transcription error for one of the two?? regards Jon Lloyd Cardiff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Natalie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:45 PM Subject: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach' > Dear Listers > > I have recently received the marriage certificate of my GGG Grandparents, > Edward > Davies and Mary Hamer who married by Banns in Banhadlog Chapel, > Montgomeryshire > on 20th May 1864. > > > Both gave their place of residence at the time of the marriage as > "Southfach". > Does anyone know where this is, or the correct spelling of the dwelling it > refers to ? > > This strikes me as an unusual combination of English and Welsh in one > word! A > Google search reveals nothing. > > In 1871 the couple and their 3 young children lived at Penddol, Cennarth, > St > Harmon, Radnorshire, so perhaps 'Southfach' is in this vicinity ?? > > Any suggestions appreciated .. > > Thanks, > Natalie > South Wales. > > > > > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message =================== Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message