Hello listers Has anyone on the list been studying Montgomeryshire Breyntons/Brintons etc? There is a conflict between the transcripts on the Bill Barker CD and the Mont Gen Soc parish register transcripts, and I wonder if anyone can throw any light on it. I suspect an error in the Barker transcripts, which are taken from an earlier transcript, but I am not certain. Barker CD transcripts of Llanidloes parish register transcripts Humphrey, ch of Evan Brinton bp 28 Feb 1662/3 ___dus, ch of Evan Brinton bp 7 Feb 1664/5 Anne, ch of Evan Brinton bp 20 Feb 1666/7 Llanidloes parish register transcripts by Mont Gen Soc on findmypast 28 Feb 1663 David son of Evan Brinton 7 Feb 1665 unnamed son of Evan Brinton 20 Feb 1667 Anne dau of Evan Brinton I believe that Evan's wife was Mary Jarman (which would fit with having a son named David in the family). I also believe that the family moved to Carno and had a string of children there, and that Evan moved to Trefeglwys before he died in 1700. In 1680 Humphrey is the only grandson named in the will of Catherine Brinton of Trefeglwys. If I am right about the move to Carno, David is certainly dead by 1700 and Anne by 1675. Nicola BJ

Hello David & Listers Thank you for your help. Yes, perhaps James Evans is a relative, but I can find no clear link between him & Mary Evans (b. 1809). Unfortunately I think I am trying to look too far back & had better start scouring the few available on-line parish records. thanks again Claire On 18/10/2010, at 5:01 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > > When replying to a digest message, quote only the specific message > to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your > reply. > Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it > coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. re Missing Margaret EVANS (edward) > 2. Evans family @Llangurig (David Evans) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 10:44:54 +0100 > From: "edward" <[email protected]> > Subject: [POWYS] re Missing Margaret EVANS > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > Hi Simon, > > Have you discounted this one , > Margaret EVANS bptsm June 22nd 1856 Welshpool, > Father David , Hawker abode Pool Town .Mother Mary. > Mary Ann EVANS. bptsm November 11th 1858, father David (Rag dealer) > abode Pool Town.Welshpool. > They are on the 1861 cenus David brn Welshpool 1835c. > > Lynne. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 22:06:21 +0100 > From: "David Evans" <[email protected]> > Subject: [POWYS] Evans family @Llangurig > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > > Hello Claire & Listers, > > I have Evans's of Llangurig in my tree, but my information is a bit > sketchy! > > I have a James Evans (b 1806, Beguildy, Radnorshire) who married Mary > Savage (b 1809, Llanidloes,Montgomeryshire) on 12 October 1835 in > Llangurig. > They went on to have four children that I have identified:- > > Mary Evans b 1838 Llangurig > d unknown > John Evans b 1840, Cwm Belan, Llangurig, > d 05 Feb 1912 Blaenavon , Mon > James Savage Evans b 18 May 1844, Dowlais, Merthyr Tydfil, > d 28 Aug 1908 Whiting, Indiana, USA > Edward S Evans, b 1849, Dowlais, Merthyr Tydfil > d 1922 Chicago, Illinois, USA > > Could this be the same branch of the Evans family that you are > researching? > Perhaps James Evans and your Mary Evans could be siblings? > > Sorry I have no further information about James Evans' origins - > perhaps > other listers may be able to assist. > > Best wishes, > > David Evans > Buntingford, Herts >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 18:01:43 +1000 >> From: Claire Mayhew <[email protected]> >> Subject: [POWYS] Evans family @Llangurig >> To: [email protected] >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes >> >> >> Searching for any information about Mary Evans (b. abt 1809 @ >> Llangurig; d. 1886) who married a Richard Jones in 1829 @ Llangurig; >> and also Ann Hamer (b. abt 1788 @ Llangurig) who married a John >> Price. >> Thank you >> Claire in Aus >> ************************************* > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the POWYS list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > > To post a message to the POWYS mailing list, send an email to [email protected] > . > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of POWYS Digest, Vol 5, Issue 296 > ************************************* Dr Claire Mayhew [email protected]

Hi John, I can get as far as 'Counties of Wales', but I cannot find a meaningful 'Note 2' Please advise. Gordon. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ball" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [POWYS] English Counties > On 12 Oct 2010, John Ball <[email protected]> wrote: > . . . I'll continue with my plan to upload the section about the status of > Monmouthshire onto my website later this week. > =============== > > Dear Listers, > > A little later than planned, I've now uploaded a new webpage displaying > the > argument against the claim that Monmouthshire is (or was) in England. > The discussion includes a long extract from Thomas Nicholas's "Annals and > Antiquities of the Counties and County Families of Wales", published in > 1872, in which he quotes verbatim from the Act of Union of 1536. > To visit this new webpage, go to my 'Maps of Wales' feature, select > 'Geography of Wales' and scroll down to the 'Counties of Wales' section > and > click on the link included under 'Note 2'. > > 'Maps of Wales' is at: > http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/maps/ > > > Kind regards, > > > John > -------------------- > John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK > E-mail: [email protected] > John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ > Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ > Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ > > GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ > Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/ > Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists > > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

On 12 Oct 2010, John Ball <[email protected]> wrote: . . . I'll continue with my plan to upload the section about the status of Monmouthshire onto my website later this week. =============== Dear Listers, A little later than planned, I've now uploaded a new webpage displaying the argument against the claim that Monmouthshire is (or was) in England. The discussion includes a long extract from Thomas Nicholas's "Annals and Antiquities of the Counties and County Families of Wales", published in 1872, in which he quotes verbatim from the Act of Union of 1536. To visit this new webpage, go to my 'Maps of Wales' feature, select 'Geography of Wales' and scroll down to the 'Counties of Wales' section and click on the link included under 'Note 2'. 'Maps of Wales' is at: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/maps/ Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK E-mail: [email protected] John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/ Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists

Great. Thanks very much Bryn and the MGS team. Nicola -----Original Message----- Dear listers, I am pleased to announce that the following records have been added online: Baptisms: Carno, Forden, Llandyssil Marriages: Carno, Forden, Guilsfield, Llandyssil Burials: Carno, Forden, Llandyssil They are to be found on http://www.findmypast.com The parish records of 44 Montgomeryshire parishes can now be found on this site. These transcriptions are the work of a small group of members of the Montgomeryshire Genealogical Society. These will be published in booklet form, but there is currently a backlog in the printing of these booklets so we trust that the appearaance of the records online will help researchers. Gaps or difficult to read passages in the parish registers have been supplemented by use of the Bishop's Transcripts so we believe that the finished product is as comprehensive and inclusive as it is possible to be. For a full list of the society's publications and details of membership please see our website: http://home.freeuk.net/montgensoc/ Bryn Ellis, Project leader.

Dear listers, I am pleased to announce that the following records have been added online: Baptisms: Carno, Forden, Llandyssil Marriages: Carno, Forden, Guilsfield, Llandyssil Burials: Carno, Forden, Llandyssil They are to be found on http://www.findmypast.com The parish records of 44 Montgomeryshire parishes can now be found on this site. These transcriptions are the work of a small group of members of the Montgomeryshire Genealogical Society. These will be published in booklet form, but there is currently a backlog in the printing of these booklets so we trust that the appearaance of the records online will help researchers. Gaps or difficult to read passages in the parish registers have been supplemented by use of the Bishop's Transcripts so we believe that the finished product is as comprehensive and inclusive as it is possible to be. For a full list of the society's publications and details of membership please see our website: http://home.freeuk.net/montgensoc/ Bryn Ellis, Project leader. ______________________________________________ This email has been scanned by Netintelligence http://www.netintelligence.com/email

Hello Claire & Listers, I have Evans's of Llangurig in my tree, but my information is a bit sketchy! I have a James Evans (b 1806, Beguildy, Radnorshire) who married Mary Savage (b 1809, Llanidloes,Montgomeryshire) on 12 October 1835 in Llangurig. They went on to have four children that I have identified:- Mary Evans b 1838 Llangurig d unknown John Evans b 1840, Cwm Belan, Llangurig, d 05 Feb 1912 Blaenavon , Mon James Savage Evans b 18 May 1844, Dowlais, Merthyr Tydfil, d 28 Aug 1908 Whiting, Indiana, USA Edward S Evans, b 1849, Dowlais, Merthyr Tydfil d 1922 Chicago, Illinois, USA Could this be the same branch of the Evans family that you are researching? Perhaps James Evans and your Mary Evans could be siblings? Sorry I have no further information about James Evans' origins - perhaps other listers may be able to assist. Best wishes, David Evans Buntingford, Herts > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 18:01:43 +1000 > From: Claire Mayhew <[email protected]> > Subject: [POWYS] Evans family @Llangurig > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > > Searching for any information about Mary Evans (b. abt 1809 @ > Llangurig; d. 1886) who married a Richard Jones in 1829 @ Llangurig; > and also Ann Hamer (b. abt 1788 @ Llangurig) who married a John Price. > Thank you > Claire in Aus > *************************************

Hi Simon, Have you discounted this one , Margaret EVANS bptsm June 22nd 1856 Welshpool, Father David , Hawker abode Pool Town .Mother Mary. Mary Ann EVANS. bptsm November 11th 1858, father David (Rag dealer) abode Pool Town.Welshpool. They are on the 1861 cenus David brn Welshpool 1835c. Lynne.

Hi Alison Thank you for the response, I had thought about the start of the railway being possibly after she was born. Unfortunately I have not been able to find any siblings as yet. Simon

What year was the railway completed around Welshpool? That is the first question you need to be asking. I know the Llanidloes to Newtown wasn't completed until 1859. Thus if she was born pre railway era then her father is going to have a completely different occupation. I know that doesn't help you much but don't discount so quickly either being a contender. Did you try looking for the birth of a sibling, especially if born later. Does witnesses from e.g. Marriage give you contenders? Alison On 14/10/2010, Simon Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello all > > I am trying to find my greatgrandmother Margaret Evans > > Information I have to date > > 1881,1891,1901 census living in wolverhampton and birthplace as Welshpool > > 1911 Census Living in Wolverhampton and Birth place of Cwmllinau caemmes > (which is where her two children were born) > > On her first marriage cert her father is David a Railway porter > On her second marriage cert father is Davis a carrier > > >From the ages given on the census and marriage certs she was born 1855 1856 > > > I have contacted Powys registry office and surprisingly they only have two > possible births in the Welshpool area however the first the father is a > farmer and the second the father is a Grocer and Draper > > So I doubt that it is either of these. > > Can anyone suggest where I could try next? > > I have not been able to find her on either the 1861 or 1871 Census > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message >

Replied off List Lynne

Hello all I am trying to find my greatgrandmother Margaret Evans Information I have to date 1881,1891,1901 census living in wolverhampton and birthplace as Welshpool 1911 Census Living in Wolverhampton and Birth place of Cwmllinau caemmes (which is where her two children were born) On her first marriage cert her father is David a Railway porter On her second marriage cert father is Davis a carrier >From the ages given on the census and marriage certs she was born 1855 1856 I have contacted Powys registry office and surprisingly they only have two possible births in the Welshpool area however the first the father is a farmer and the second the father is a Grocer and Draper So I doubt that it is either of these. Can anyone suggest where I could try next? I have not been able to find her on either the 1861 or 1871 Census

Searching for any information about Mary Evans (b. abt 1809 @ Llangurig; d. 1886) who married a Richard Jones in 1829 @ Llangurig; and also Ann Hamer (b. abt 1788 @ Llangurig) who married a John Price. Thank you Claire in Aus

Mary I have a mortgage document of 1848 for Tynycoed farm Beguildy showing a Thomas Edmunds as one of its occupiers up to shortly before that date. May be unconnected but the surname doesn't seem to appear in the parish much thereafter and I know that family of the adjacent property emigrated to Wisconsin around 1846. regards Jon Lloyd Cardiff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Harding" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 4:30 PM Subject: [POWYS] Seeking Edmonds, Radnorshire, Beguildy parish > Greetings. I am new to the list and have much to learn, but eager to > begin. > > I would appreciate any help that can be offered as to understanding the > system of parishes, townships, provinces, etc. I understand these have > been > redrawn over the years--but I am lost at this time. > > Also, I am searching for two families: Edmonds, believe to be of > Beguildy, > and Harding (for which I have not barely a clue). I am enclosing what is > known or suspected below, and would appreciate any suggestions for further > research. > > I am searching for *Thomas Edmonds*, born circa 1805-09. Son of Thomas > and > Jane Loyd Edmonds. > Siblings: John and Jane. > > Birth Dates cited include: 6 April, 1805 (biography), 7 April, 1808 > (headstone), 1809 (1851 Wales Census, if correct). > > Married *Mary Evans*, born 1804-1808, according to his biography published > in the USA. Her parents unknown. > > Children include: Mary (1833), Margaret, (?), Jane (1840), Anne > (?) Jonathan (1842), Edwin (1845), Elizabeth (1848) and Sarah (1850). > Mary married *William Harding*, likely after arriving in Wisconsin, USA as > first child known to that union was born in 1856. > > Reputed to have sailed from Liverpool in 1851 and arrived New York. > > A family that appears a likely match is documented in the 1851 Wales > Census: > Radnorshire>Creigbyther>District 1a>7. This shows that Thomas was born in > Beguildy and his wife Mary was born in LLangunlllo. Children all born in > Beguildy. > > Thank you very much in advance for any assistance that can be offered. If > I > can in anyway return a research service here, please do not hesitate. > Kind > regards, > > Mary Ann Harding > Lincoln Nebraska USA > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Dear John, Thank you very much for that correction. I'll see about getting the page changed in line with it. I'll put in a link to Glyn Hale's page, and, if you let me know when it goes live, to your new page of explanation. I am somewhat amused, though, by your reference to the "new webpage". It has been there for at least 10 years, probably longer, and was last updated last October. What is new is my mention of it on the Powis list, which I only joined quite recently. I think it must have been mentioned at some time on the Midmarch list though, which we have both been members of for some years. If not, I've slipped up there (again)! I'm hoping soon to move my entire site to a new host which will entail a new URL (at the very least changing all file name extensions from "htm" to "cfm", but probably also a new domain name). Don't hold your breath though - it's a lot of work converting about 300 pages of it to a new format, and learning to use a new-to-me mark-up language for it (Adobe's Cold Fusion) at the same time. I shall then announce the fact on all the family history lists of which I'm a member, including mention of that page because it does seem to be popular, especially with Americans. Regards, Jim On 12 Oct 2010 at 8:37, John Ball wrote: > Jim Fisher <[email protected]> wrote: > Take a look at my web page on just this topic at > http://www.jimella.nildram.co.uk/counties.htm > It is mainly based on my knowledge of England rather than Wales but > (subject to correction by those more knowledgeable of Wales) I don't > think the differences are very great, if there are any. > ================== > > Dear Jim, > > Thank you for telling us about your excellent new webpage on the > English counties. The only point about which I would quibble is your > reference to Monmouthshire, where you state: "Monmouthshire. . . , now > in Wales, was for several centuries legally a part of England (but not > legitimately in the view of many Welsh people)." > > The mistaken belief that Monmouthshire is in England only came to > prominence in the 19th century, and continued well into the 20th > century. > > In fact, Monmouthshire has never been part of England. Henry VIII, > through the Act of Union of 1536, created the county of Monmouthshire, > together with the counties of Breconshire, Denbighshire, > Montgomeryshire, and Radnorshire, from Welsh lands previously owned by > the Marcher Lords. As a result, the number of Welsh counties increased > from eight to thirteen. The mistaken belief that Monmouthshire was in > England arose from the fact that in 1542, justice and administration > for Wales were vested in the officers of a new court - the King's > Great Session in Wales. The Great Session for Wales was organised into > four circuits, each consisting of three counties, and which would each > have two justices. The four circuits were: 1) North Wales - Anglesey, > Caernarfon and Merioneth. 2) Chester - Flint, Denbigh and Montgomery. > 3) Southwest Wales - Cardiganshire, Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire > 4) South and Mid Wales - Glamorgan, Breconshire, and Radnorshire. > Monmouthshire was omitted from this scheme. So, by reason of > geographic proximity (nearest part of Wales to London), Monmouthshire > came under the jurisdiction of the Courts of Chancery and Exchequer at > Westminster. Ecclesiastically, though, the county remained in the > diocese of Llandaff and culturally, linguistically and in every other > respect continued to be Welsh. Later, in the reign of Charles II, > Monmouthshire was included in the Oxford circuit, together with > Oxford, Gloucester, Worcester and Hereford. > > The status of Monmouthshire as a Welsh county is more fully explained > on Glyn Hale's excellent website (http://halefamily.net/gwent.html) > from where I have taken much of the information above. > > A more detailed and authoritative account is given in Volume 2 of > "Annals and Antiquities of the Counties and County Families of Wales", > by Thomas Nicholas, published Longmans, Green, Reader, & Co., London , > 1872. Nicholas devotes over four pages of his book to a vehement and > well-argued dismissal of what he describes as "this vulgar error"; > i.e. the claim that Monmouthshire is or was in England. He quotes > verbatim the relevant paragraphs from the Act of Union, which clearly > state that, ". . .all the residue of the said Lords Marcher within the > saide Countrey or Dominion of Wales shall be served and divided into > certaine particular Counties or Shires, that is to say: The Countie or > Shire of Mommouth, the Countie of Shire of Brekenoke, the Countie or > Shire of Radnor, the Countie or Shire of Mountgomery, the Countie or > Shire of Denbigh." > > It is clear that Monmouthshire was treated in precisely the same way > as the other four new Welsh counties. > > I am currently converting the full text of Nicholas's explanation, > including the quotes from the Act of Union, into editable text, and > hope to upload it onto my website in the next few days. > > Kind regards, > > > John > -------------------- > John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK > E-mail: [email protected] > John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ > Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ > Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ > > GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ > Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/ Joint Administrator - Powys > (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists > > > =================== > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: > www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you John for the photographs,now I know what Lloyd Lewis looks like, he is in my family tree. Regards Daphne

Hello List, Regarding "The mistaken belief that Monmouthshire is in England only came to prominence in the 19th century, and continued well into the 20th century.In fact, Monmouthshire has never been part of England." I wish someone would tell the LDS this! They continue to list Monmouthshire under England rather than Wales. Regards,Tomi

Dear Listers, Further to my previous e-mail, Hilary Williams tells me that volumes 1 and 2 of Thomas Nicholas's "Annals and Antiquities of the Counties and County Families of Wales" are on: Internet Archive - http://www.archive.org/details/annalsantiquitie02nichuoft and Google Books - http://tinyurl.com/2axodg8 Thanks Hilary. However, despite this, I'll continue with my plan to upload the section about the status of Monmouthshire onto my website later this week. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK E-mail: [email protected] John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/ Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Ball Sent: 12 October 2010 08:37 To: [email protected] Subject: [POWYS] English Counties Jim Fisher <[email protected]> wrote: Take a look at my web page on just this topic at http://www.jimella.nildram.co.uk/counties.htm It is mainly based on my knowledge of England rather than Wales but (subject to correction by those more knowledgeable of Wales) I don't think the differences are very great, if there are any. ================== Dear Jim, Thank you for telling us about your excellent new webpage on the English counties. The only point about which I would quibble is your reference to Monmouthshire, where you state: "Monmouthshire. . . , now in Wales, was for several centuries legally a part of England (but not legitimately in the view of many Welsh people)." The mistaken belief that Monmouthshire is in England only came to prominence in the 19th century, and continued well into the 20th century. In fact, Monmouthshire has never been part of England. Henry VIII, through the Act of Union of 1536, created the county of Monmouthshire, together with the counties of Breconshire, Denbighshire, Montgomeryshire, and Radnorshire, from Welsh lands previously owned by the Marcher Lords. As a result, the number of Welsh counties increased from eight to thirteen. The mistaken belief that Monmouthshire was in England arose from the fact that in 1542, justice and administration for Wales were vested in the officers of a new court - the King's Great Session in Wales. The Great Session for Wales was organised into four circuits, each consisting of three counties, and which would each have two justices. The four circuits were: 1) North Wales - Anglesey, Caernarfon and Merioneth. 2) Chester - Flint, Denbigh and Montgomery. 3) Southwest Wales - Cardiganshire, Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire 4) South and Mid Wales - Glamorgan, Breconshire, and Radnorshire. Monmouthshire was omitted from this scheme. So, by reason of geographic proximity (nearest part of Wales to London), Monmouthshire came under the jurisdiction of the Courts of Chancery and Exchequer at Westminster. Ecclesiastically, though, the county remained in the diocese of Llandaff and culturally, linguistically and in every other respect continued to be Welsh. Later, in the reign of Charles II, Monmouthshire was included in the Oxford circuit, together with Oxford, Gloucester, Worcester and Hereford. The status of Monmouthshire as a Welsh county is more fully explained on Glyn Hale's excellent website (http://halefamily.net/gwent.html) from where I have taken much of the information above. A more detailed and authoritative account is given in Volume 2 of "Annals and Antiquities of the Counties and County Families of Wales", by Thomas Nicholas, published Longmans, Green, Reader, & Co., London , 1872. Nicholas devotes over four pages of his book to a vehement and well-argued dismissal of what he describes as "this vulgar error"; i.e. the claim that Monmouthshire is or was in England. He quotes verbatim the relevant paragraphs from the Act of Union, which clearly state that, ". . .all the residue of the said Lords Marcher within the saide Countrey or Dominion of Wales shall be served and divided into certaine particular Counties or Shires, that is to say: The Countie or Shire of Mommouth, the Countie or Shire of Brekenoke, the Countie or Shire of Radnor, the Countie or Shire of Mountgomery, the Countie or Shire of Denbigh." It is clear that Monmouthshire was treated in precisely the same way as the other four new Welsh counties. I am currently converting the full text of Nicholas's explanation, including the quotes from the Act of Union, into editable text, and hope to upload it onto my website in the next few days. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK E-mail: [email protected] John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/ Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists

Try this website http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk There are various routes through the website and lots of information about places. One way to get to the information you are looking for is to put in the name of the place you are interested in and it will give you a description. Then near the bottom of the page below 'XXXX through time' and click on 'this administrative unit' and it will give alternative names and spellings and loads of other information about boundary changes etc. A wealth of information. Have fun and don't get lost Phyllis > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 10:30:13 -0500 > From: Mary Harding <[email protected]> > Subject: [POWYS] Seeking Edmonds, Radnorshire, Beguildy parish > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: >        <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Greetings.  I am new to the list and have much to learn, but eager to begin. > > I would appreciate any help that can be offered as to understanding the > system of parishes, townships, provinces, etc.  I understand these have been > redrawn over the years--but I am lost at this time. > > Also, I am searching for two families:  Edmonds, believe to be of Beguildy, > and Harding (for which I have not barely a clue).  I am enclosing what is > known or suspected below, and would appreciate any suggestions for further > research. > > I am searching for *Thomas Edmonds*, born circa 1805-09.  Son of Thomas and > Jane Loyd Edmonds. > Siblings:  John and Jane. > > Birth Dates cited include:   6 April, 1805 (biography),  7 April, 1808 > (headstone), 1809 (1851 Wales Census, if correct). > > Married *Mary Evans*, born 1804-1808, according to his biography published > in the USA.  Her parents unknown. > > Children include:  Mary (1833), Margaret, (?), Jane (1840), Anne > (?) Jonathan (1842), Edwin (1845), Elizabeth (1848) and Sarah (1850). >  Mary married *William Harding*, likely after arriving in Wisconsin, USA as > first child known to that union was born in 1856. > > Reputed to have sailed from Liverpool in 1851 and arrived New York. > > A family that appears a likely match is documented in the 1851 Wales Census: >  Radnorshire>Creigbyther>District 1a>7.  This shows that Thomas was born in > Beguildy and his wife Mary was born in LLangunlllo.  Children all born in > Beguildy. > > Thank you very much in advance for any assistance that can be offered. If I > can in anyway return a research service here, please do not hesitate.  Kind > regards, > > Mary Ann Harding > Lincoln Nebraska USA > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 21:17:07 +0100 > From: "Jim Fisher" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [POWYS] Seeking Edmonds, Radnorshire, Beguildy parish > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > Take a look at my web page on just this topic at > http://www.jimella.nildram.co.uk/counties.htm > > It is mainly based on my knowledge of England rather than Wales but > (subject to correction by those more knowledgeable of Wales) I don't > think the differences are very great, if there are any. > > Regards, > > Jim Fisher > > On 11 Oct 2010 at 10:30, Mary Harding wrote: > >> Greetings.  I am new to the list and have much to learn, but eager to >> begin. >> >> I would appreciate any help that can be offered as to understanding >> the system of parishes, townships, provinces, etc.  I understand these >> have been redrawn over the years--but I am lost at this time. >> >> Also, I am searching for two families:  Edmonds, believe to be of >> Beguildy, and Harding (for which I have not barely a clue).  I am >> enclosing what is known or suspected below, and would appreciate any >> suggestions for further research. >> >> I am searching for *Thomas Edmonds*, born circa 1805-09.  Son of >> Thomas and Jane Loyd Edmonds. Siblings:  John and Jane. >> >> Birth Dates cited include:   6 April, 1805 (biography),  7 April, 1808 >> (headstone), 1809 (1851 Wales Census, if correct). >> >> Married *Mary Evans*, born 1804-1808, according to his biography >> published in the USA.  Her parents unknown. >> >> Children include:  Mary (1833), Margaret, (?), Jane (1840), Anne >> (?) Jonathan (1842), Edwin (1845), Elizabeth (1848) and Sarah (1850). >>  Mary married *William Harding*, likely after arriving in Wisconsin, >>  USA as >> first child known to that union was born in 1856. >> >> Reputed to have sailed from Liverpool in 1851 and arrived New York. >> >> A family that appears a likely match is documented in the 1851 Wales >> Census: >>  Radnorshire>Creigbyther>District 1a>7.  This shows that Thomas was >>  born in >> Beguildy and his wife Mary was born in LLangunlllo.  Children all born >> in Beguildy. >> >> Thank you very much in advance for any assistance that can be offered. >> If I can in anyway return a research service here, please do not >> hesitate.  Kind regards, >> >> Mary Ann Harding >> Lincoln Nebraska USA >> >> =================== >> Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: >> www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the POWYS list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > > To post a message to the POWYS mailing list, send an email to [email protected] > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of POWYS Digest, Vol 5, Issue 290 > ************************************* >

Jim Fisher <[email protected]> wrote: Take a look at my web page on just this topic at http://www.jimella.nildram.co.uk/counties.htm It is mainly based on my knowledge of England rather than Wales but (subject to correction by those more knowledgeable of Wales) I don't think the differences are very great, if there are any. ================== Dear Jim, Thank you for telling us about your excellent new webpage on the English counties. The only point about which I would quibble is your reference to Monmouthshire, where you state: "Monmouthshire. . . , now in Wales, was for several centuries legally a part of England (but not legitimately in the view of many Welsh people)." The mistaken belief that Monmouthshire is in England only came to prominence in the 19th century, and continued well into the 20th century. In fact, Monmouthshire has never been part of England. Henry VIII, through the Act of Union of 1536, created the county of Monmouthshire, together with the counties of Breconshire, Denbighshire, Montgomeryshire, and Radnorshire, from Welsh lands previously owned by the Marcher Lords. As a result, the number of Welsh counties increased from eight to thirteen. The mistaken belief that Monmouthshire was in England arose from the fact that in 1542, justice and administration for Wales were vested in the officers of a new court - the King's Great Session in Wales. The Great Session for Wales was organised into four circuits, each consisting of three counties, and which would each have two justices. The four circuits were: 1) North Wales - Anglesey, Caernarfon and Merioneth. 2) Chester - Flint, Denbigh and Montgomery. 3) Southwest Wales - Cardiganshire, Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire 4) South and Mid Wales - Glamorgan, Breconshire, and Radnorshire. Monmouthshire was omitted from this scheme. So, by reason of geographic proximity (nearest part of Wales to London), Monmouthshire came under the jurisdiction of the Courts of Chancery and Exchequer at Westminster. Ecclesiastically, though, the county remained in the diocese of Llandaff and culturally, linguistically and in every other respect continued to be Welsh. Later, in the reign of Charles II, Monmouthshire was included in the Oxford circuit, together with Oxford, Gloucester, Worcester and Hereford. The status of Monmouthshire as a Welsh county is more fully explained on Glyn Hale's excellent website (http://halefamily.net/gwent.html) from where I have taken much of the information above. A more detailed and authoritative account is given in Volume 2 of "Annals and Antiquities of the Counties and County Families of Wales", by Thomas Nicholas, published Longmans, Green, Reader, & Co., London , 1872. Nicholas devotes over four pages of his book to a vehement and well-argued dismissal of what he describes as "this vulgar error"; i.e. the claim that Monmouthshire is or was in England. He quotes verbatim the relevant paragraphs from the Act of Union, which clearly state that, ". . .all the residue of the said Lords Marcher within the saide Countrey or Dominion of Wales shall be served and divided into certaine particular Counties or Shires, that is to say: The Countie or Shire of Mommouth, the Countie of Shire of Brekenoke, the Countie or Shire of Radnor, the Countie or Shire of Mountgomery, the Countie or Shire of Denbigh." It is clear that Monmouthshire was treated in precisely the same way as the other four new Welsh counties. I am currently converting the full text of Nicholas's explanation, including the quotes from the Act of Union, into editable text, and hope to upload it onto my website in the next few days. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK E-mail: [email protected] John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/ Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists