Cliff and Bonnie, You are both far beyond me in the ability to express your points of view, but I sure enjoyed reading both your messages. I go a lot on intuition and circumstantial evidence. (And once again--I reiterat--nobility doesn't mean a whit to me--the only reason I would want to have a royal line (proved) is that the genealogy would already be done. I think there is probably some truth that Posey was a French or Belgian name. The Posey family and the Belaine family were very close in Maryland and possibly had connections in England and prior to that in France. So far there is so little information available on the Belaine name. It seemed to disappear early. I have searched under many different spellings and have found very little on the name. We do know there were Poseys who were members of the Threadneedle church in London. Don't know about Belaine. My Posey connection is through Edward Philpott, II and Susannah Posey, dtr of John. Edward II's father was married to a Bridget/Brigette 'unknown'. Supposedly Edward I is descended from John Philpott, Lord Mayor London in the 1300's, but there are a couple of generations with missing information way back in the 1400's. Also, we assume Edward I was the immigrant ancestor, and maybe the son/grandson of Henry Philpott of Folkestone, Kent, but no proof there either. Maybe someday we'll find the answers. Shirley

Posted by: Cliff Posey Date: August 02, 2000 at 10:55:52 In Reply to: Re: Poschet Vaux Cambrai 1500 by Shirley of 1267 Shirley, Like you, I have read all the stuff out there on the Posey/Poschet connection. And frankly, I don't care one way or the other (England or France) but fine reading all the post somewhat amusing. True, there is no solid evidence point to a connection but also there is no solid evidence pointing against one (keyword: solid). Now lets have some fun. If you take all the information out there and apply pure mathematics to it (probability theory) you (or I should say I) come up with a 7.75 out of 10 probability favoring a connection. Again I asure you I'm completely unbias (just between you and me that's untrue I would really prefer the English) and like the random occurrence of a single event this is only a probability based on information available (to me) with applied variables (by me). We could call it the Posey Conjecture. Now with that said, as stated by someone earlier I would also start in England. Of course, you could develop a DNA table log on living members of both sides (that is the true lines on the Posey side and Poschet side). Followups: Re: Poschet Vaux Cambrai 1500 Bonnie Jay 8/02/00 Re: Poschet Vaux Cambrai 1500 Posted by: Bonnie Jay Date: August 02, 2000 at 15:43:41 In Reply to: Re: Poschet Vaux Cambrai 1500 by Cliff Posey of 1267 Cliff, In the interest of taking good care of Posey history and certainly not to offend you in any way, I have to make some comments and ask some questions if you will. First, I don't know how long you've been a genealogist, but after over 30 years of serious research, I can tell you that mathematics has absolutely nothing to do with genealogical research. Laws of probability and averages have no relation to research, at least if one is interested in discovering facts and if one approaches research as an acdemic discipline. Games of chance are great in Las Vegas but there's no room for such in genealogy. Second, genealogical facts are not established on what has not been proved untrue. That's an odd sounding sentence, but so is your statement that such is true. Genealogical facts are established solely on what is proved as TRUE. Until you can prove the past, there is NO past! If your approach to genealogy were valid, all of us Posey descendants could claim to be descendants of a previously unknown illegitimate children of Cleopatra and Julius Caeser -- based solely on the fact that there is no proof that it isn't true. Is this the quality of history we want to build for our families? Not hardly. Your claim a 7.75 chance out of 10 there is a connection of the two families. Might I call your bluff<g> and ask for your genealogical evidence? Can you tell me of your specific research results that have led to your claim? Can you cite sources? I don't mean to hurt your feelings or embarass you and that certainly isn't my intention here, but since this is a forum, challenge and debate are natural occurences. Personally, I applaud the people who actually do the research and don't "GUESS" about what is true. I applaud those who dare to ask questions and raise doubts instead of believing anything and everything they read on the Internet. And I think all of this is wonderful fun so please don't play put down games with the people who are actually doing the work on your family history -- your letter came across that way. This is tons of fun! You see, this is the thrill of the search! If we already knew the answers, we wouldn't be going through this wonderful search of the past (a priceless learning experience!). And without challenge and debate, a scholarly community collapses or goes nowhere -- scholarship is the key element that has been sorely lacking in Posey history for far too long. I'll be waiting with baited breath for you to share with us your research results that you use as the basis for your knowledge of the Posey family and your historical claims. Thanks. Bonnie Jay

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/gmdhtml/gmdhome.html

dear cousin Gretchen....how about the scepter and throne? I planned on a throne room with red carpet where all the Posey/Poschets could gather yearly and spin yarns and tell Huguenot tales....sigh

This board is for posting Obituaries. Do NOT post queries here. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- I Support Free Genealogy, Show me banners Creek Co. OK Obituaries [ Read Responses | Post a New Response | Return to the Index (Use 'Back' if from a search list) ] [ Previous | Next ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Fred T. Phillips Posted by Earline Sparks Barger on Mon, 03 Jul 2000 Surname: PHILLIPS, BOHANON, POSEY PHILLIPS, FRED T. Sapulpa Herald, Creek Co., Ok. 03-08-90 Fred Taylor Phillips, 85, of 95 W. Mary Lynn Drive, died Wednesday at Bartlett Memorial Medical Center. Services are scheduled for 10:30 a.m. Friday at Green Hills Memorial Gardens Chapel. The casket will not be opened during the service. Burial will be in Green Hills Memorial Gardens under the direction of Owen Funeral Home, Inc. He was born Feb. 7, 1905, in Tahlequah and married Margaret Bohanon Aug. 27, 1925, in Sapulpa. He and his wife lived in Drumright many years before moving to Sapulpa in 1944. Mr. Phillips worked for the Texas Pipeline Co. in Drumright many years. After moving to Sapulpa, he worked for the Coca Cola Co. and later for the Sapulpa Public Schools. He was a member of the Drumright First Baptist Church. Survivors include wife Margaret; daughter Mrs. Logan (Patty) Posey of Sapulpa; and granddaughter Vicki Posey of Sand Springs. The family will headquarter at the Logan Posey home, 446 Fairlane Drive. PHILLIPS, FRED T. Sapulpa Herald, Creek Co., Ok. 03-09-90 Services for Fred Taylor Phillips were today at Green Hills Memorial Gardens Chapel, with Mickey White officiating. Burial was at Green Hills Memorial Gardens, under the direction of Owen Funeral Home. Mrs. Phillips died Wednesday at Bartlett Memorial Medical Center.

The original French Huguenot Threadneedle Street Church - 17th Century The last part of this chapter consists of verbatim extracts from the Actes de Consistoires which were the daily or weekly minutes of the deliberations of the Elders of the French Threadneedle Street church. The Actes were compiled by Antoine du Ponchel session clerk of St. Anthony's chapel. Huguenot Society volumes 38 and 48 record most of the earlier years from 1550 onwards in diary form. The Elders were very strict and families entered in the records were definitely in disgrace. This seemed to happen to 16th century Delaforces quite frequently. A. In 1560 Jehan Fortin (Latin version of De Force) was on the mat! B. In 1564 "Jaques de la Fose, quy a espouse (Denise) la vecue (widow) de feu (late) piere le cuiginier se presenty pour comuniquer a' la Cene (Masse) se excusant que de 2 ans ny avoyt point este prometant aire meilleur diligence pour launiere, lui fut a corde de sy presenter. Jeudi dernier de Novembre". C. In 1564 "ledy jour Jehan Fortin amenyt une fille au consistoire nomme Katerine Gergart. Ledyt Fortin de prendre pour femme ladyte Katerine. Jehan Fortin fut admoneste' de ce qu'il ne honte point les sermons ne qu'il ne vient a' la Cene..". D. In 1564 "Ledyt jour fut faiet Raport par Maistre Fichet du scandale adueau a la maison de Jaques de la Fosse et Jaques Chaumois de ce que la femme didyt Jaques a appelle' son beau pere (father-in-law) "Ruffien", et "Maqueaureau" (Pimp!): il furent tous appelle's an Consistoire". E. In 1571, 12 September "Jan de le Fosse venu de Lille depuis Un an. En quis comme desus a dit qu'il na cognu Ia fille fly comment Ia chose est venue seullement qu'il a entendu que Si l'homme se fut bien garde' ii ne fut pas mort et que les voisins (neighbours) disoient que le cop (body) restoit mortel qu'il a cognu le personage et veu aller les rues frequentant les tavernes et yttonnant comme de coustume par lespace de 3 sepmaines (weeks) apres le coup (blow) donne.". F. 1572 Jan de Ia Fosse sera manle pour mercredy prochaine par Fontaine (name of the Priest). G. 2 January 1572 Jaques de le Fosse, sa femme et la femme de Jacques Chermoise ont faict plaincte (complaint) de Jean de Vick disans que ledict de Vick auroit dict que Pierre le Cuisinier estoit ung larron (thief) et qu'il jamais faict autre chose que de rober et quant il estoit trouve' au faict disoit qu'il ne faisoit que jover et disent les dictz plaindans que ledict de vick aur&it dict en presence de Jaques Chermoise et de Pierre Hernet dict Le Pelau. Tout ce different et debat ne procede que dune cedule portant a Ia somme de 23s 4d sterlin que le dict Jaques de la Fosse demand au dict de Vick (Viguer). H. 16 January 1572 Jan De La Fosse enquis sil na point baille un soufflet a Anthoine Troielle en plaine vue sil ne Ia point appelle faux raporteur aiant une fausse lange de serpent (!) un garcon et Un Glistre Confesse que ovy se plaindant quil avoit charge' sa femme destre pailarde mesme en ce pays... I. 30 January 1572: Fontaine (the Minister) a exhibe par escrit les plaintes de Jan de la Fosse on les envoiera a Nordwis (Norwich) et les remains seront ovys pour mercredy prochain... J. 6 February 1572 Jehan de Ia Fosse plaintif contre Anthoine Truyelle demovant a Nordwits Ia produict pour tesoins Jeanne L'homme femme a' Hubert Lengle... que A.T. disoit en sa maison que la femme Jehan de Ia Fosse estoit ribaude (ribald) ce propos furent tenus en Arras plus par le chemin de Nordwits il y a demy an ehviron... K. 9 January 1574 Jaques de Ia Fosse et Jan de Vignes sestant remis pour un different en arbitrage, Robert Huttal, Estienne Le bras et Thomas Hasqvent raportent que Ledyt de Fosse ne veut obtemperer. L. in 1574 Isabeau Pennis venue au Consistoire remonstrance luy a este faite des injures dites par elle a Jean Fortin lesquelles elle n'a voulu recognoistre et sa mocquant desdytes admonitions et du Consistoire sen est allee. M.1574 Remonstrance luy a este' faicte touchant ses rebellions appiniatres et detractemens quil a fait et dict par cyderant tant de leglise (church) du consistoire que des arbittres lesquels sestvient emploies affin de Ia pacifier avec Jean Fortin. Dont il en a recognu faute en consistoire en la presence desdict arbittres et s'est reconsilie' a' la compagnie et ausdictz arbittres confessant sa faute en demandant pardon a Dieu et a tons ceux qu'il avoit offer se promettant aussy de vivre plus christienement a lavenir. N. 1577 Des promesses que Guillaume Fortin auroit faire a la Fremine et quilz ont trouves. Although the old French is difficult to translate the gist of the capers of John, James and William with their spouses or girlfriends is clear. The Elders obviously thought they were a difficult family to have in the congregation, either because they thought the sermons too boring or because of noisy domestic scenes which were brought to the notice of the Elders. In a foreign land the new churches were on their best behaviour and the Elders were most strict with their sometimes unruly flocks. The Dutch Walloon church of Austin Friars has records from 1559 and the parish records are published in books by Mr W.J.C. Moens. On 29 August 1594 Bernard de la Fosse of Bruges married Abigail Vrombouts of Sanwits (Sandwich, Kent). 6 daughters were born. In 1619 their son Bernard la Fosse was a wedding witness. Bernard was grandson of Bernard Le Fors/La Fosse who was married to Margaret (nee Tannekin Van Alselot) and born about 1544. They were silversmiths living in Dukes Place near the Cree church in Bishopsgate. Various Anthonies (Anthoni de Fosse in 1594) were also recorded as being part of the Dutch church congregation during the 16th century. Peter Duffoij(s) of Bruges married Tannekin Backer of Brussels on 5 May 1590 in the Dutch church. Immigrants from the Low Countries came into England to escape from the Spanish invaders catholic regime. The repressions in the Low Countries were severe but not on such a scale as in France where major pitched battles were fought between rival armies of Huguenots and Catholics. Members of the French family who as refugees had found refuge in Bruges usually worshipped at the Austin Friars Dutch Walloon church rather than at Threadneedle Street which was dominated by the French silkweavers. The Bernards, Anthonies and Peters in the Dutch church were either 'money men' or politicians and certainly not silk weavers. The other French Huguenot Churches were La Patente, Spitalfields; Thorney; Bristol; Plymouth; Stonehouse; Thorpe-lesoken; Savoy; Le Carre'; Berwick St; Spring Gardens; Les Grecs; Chapel Royal; St. James; Swallow St; the Tabernacle; Glasshouse St; Leicester Fields; Rider Court; Hungerford Market; Le Petit Charenton; West Street; Pearl Street Crispin St; Swallow St; St. Martin Orgars; St. Jean Spitalfields; Artillery Church, Wheeler St; Swanfields, Hoxton; La Patente de Soho; and Rerpertoire Generale. There were Huguenot churches in Ireland: St. Patrick & St. Mary, Dublin; various French Nonconformist churches in Dublin and Portarlington. Some 40 churches spread over England and Ireland served the spiritual needs of the 100,000 Huguenots who had fled from France. Baptisms and marriages are faithfully recorded and well indexed. These volumes should be considered a prime source for families with Huguenot ancestors. The main sources for this chapter are the Huguenot Society volumes of Parish Registers of Threadneedle Street church and well researched books containing the registers of the Walloon church at Austin Friars. The First French Protestant Church of London This congregation was founded on July 24, 1550, when English King Edward VI granted a charter to Protestant refugees led by Polish cleric, Jean a Lasco. The charter granted the freedom of individualized worship at the Temple of Jesus -- Austin Friars in the City of London. By the charter the name of any new pastor was to be submitted to the English sovereign for his approval. The first Protestant House Church in Paris appeared in 1555, a few years prior to the premier synode national des Eglises réformées de France (1559) Some of the refugees were Dutch while others were French. Soon, the congregation spit, the French Huguenots establishing a congregation at Threadneedle Street (St. Anthony's Hospital), where they remained until 1841. Links were established with other Huguenot congregations in England, notably those in Canterbury, Norwich and Southampton. The Threadneedle Street church, destroyed in the Great Fire of London (1666), was rebuilt quickly. Édit de Fontainebleau, the Revocation of the Edict of Nantes by Louis XIV, roi-soleil de France, (1685 -- date sombre dans l'histoire des malheurs de la liberté en France: car la révocation de l'édit de Nantes, le catholicisme a «gagné» : victoire à la Pyrrhus qui fut la cause de l'anticléricalisme des Lumières françaises), also caused many other French churches to be founded in London; but, not one survives today. In 1841, the congregation moved from Threadneedle Street to St. Martine-Le-Grand, where it remained until 1887. That site was chosen because many French residents and industries were to be found in Soho at the close of the 19th century. Huguenots were French Protestants, followers of John CALVIN who established the Reformed Church c. 1550. Significant dates in Huguenot history are: 29 Jan 1536: General Edict urging extermination of Heretics [Huguenots]. 01 Mar 1562: About 1,200 Huguenots killed at Vassey, France, igniting the Wars of Religion. 24 Aug 1575: St Bartholomew Massacre. 13 Apr 1598: Edict of Nantes signed, ending the Wars of Religion, and permitting Huguenots to practice their religion in a limited number of French towns. 22 Oct 1685: Edict of Nantes revoked; escalation of persecution. 28 Nov 1787: Partial restoration of civil and religious rights to Huguenots in France by The Promulgation of the Edict of Toleration.

I have Hollingsworths that are supposed to be descended from the Lord Mayor of London who was hanged during the Monmouth Rebellion and later found innocent - but of course there is no actual evidence of the relationship, just some names that might match if you stretch things. I have Aten's who had a ferry crossing in New Jersey and either furnished the boat for George Washington or were with him in the boat depending on the version of the story - except that the Aten ferry was about 50 miles from the actual crossing site. I have Chandlers who are reported to be of noble French stock and fled to England as Huguenots [sound familiar?] including one son who married a daughter of Robert I of Scotland [Robert the Bruce] - except there is no documented connection between Le Chaundeler's of France and the Chandlers of England [sound familiar?] and Robert the Bruce didn't have a legitimate daughter of the reported name. And then I have Johnson's and Marshalls that are "cousins" of an assortment of governors or maybe a vice-president or, or ??? - usually prominant folks who have researched genealogies without our relatives in them. Bottom line - I think the Poschet / Posey story has a place in my records along with an explaination of the origin of the mis-connection. And, when new researchers come across the connection - as they will - we need to gently and gracefully let them in on the family secret - don't go buying that Tiara quite yet. Gretchen Kohl [Alameda,CA] - GretchenKohl@aol.com

I found some spellings of the name that I hadn't seen before----Poche (with an accent on the e), Pocher, Pochet.

POSTED BY MICHAEL ALLISON ON USGENFORUM POSEY SURNAME > There appears to be some solid evidence that some of the individuals in the > pedgigree were fictitious, others real people. Evidence has been presented > that one of the co-called nobles in the pedigree was actually a stableman > instead in his "real life". One researcher, apparently quite accomplished, > found that a parent and child in the pedigree were indeed real people, but > their factual lives were separated by almost two centuries and obviously > couldn't have been parent/child. > > I think the huge gaping hole in the pedigree has been known for quite a > while, even before it became common knowledge that the rest of the pedigree > was a sham. Apparently many researchers thought it was all real and simply > had a "problem area" needing more work to get it all perfect. > > It all could be worse. If we all had found that the Poschets had been our > ancestors, we would've had a mess to clean up. I'm kind of glad those folks > aren't our Posey ancestors. With so much intentional fraud to recreate > identities, I doubt if the true story of these folks can be found! > > > Posted by: Shirley Date: August 01, 2000 at 08:09:44 > In Reply to: Re: Poschet Vaux Cambrai 1500 by Michael Allison of 1264 > > > As always, very good points you bring out. > > Shirley > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------<e|- > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! > 1. Fill in the brief application > 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds > 3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR > http://click.egroups.com/1/6628/6/_/450535/_/965143466/ > --------------------------------------------------------------------|e>- > > >

http://www.linkline.com/personal/xymox/fraud/fraud223.htm

Please note: I hope no one thought I was taking this as my work---I included the translation to show what Michael Allison was responding to. Shirley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shirley Davis Warren" <swarren2@prodigy.net> To: <mdroots@egroups.com> Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 8:01 PM Subject: [mdroots] Posey > Translation of the French article from "Dictionaire de la Noblesse par de la > Chenaye-Desbois et Badier" troisieme edition Paris 1870, reprint 1969 > Kraus-Thomson Org. Ltd. > > POSCHET De VOYAUX, nobel family of German origins, which was transplanted in > diverse provinces because of wars. One of this name was established in > Voyoux, District of Maubeuge, sub-district of Valenciennes. > > I. Eustache-Joseph Poschet, Knight, Lord of Raazem, Lieutenant of the Royal > Guard, married Mathilde de Foeleimberg, from which union: > 1. Philippe-Octave-Emmanuel, who follows > 2. and Albert-Joseph, Knight of the order of St. John of Jerusalem [Note: > this means he went on one of the Crusades] who passed on this inherited > title > in 1458 to > > II. Philippe-Octabe-Emmanuel Poschet, Knight, Viscount of Raazem, Colonel > of > Infantry, married to Reinelde-Eleonore de Montecuculli, from which union: > 1. Philippe-Theodore, who follows > 2. and Reinelde-Philippifle, who was received as Cannonesse of the nobel > Adenne Chapter. > > III. Philippe-Theodore Poschet, Knight, Viscount of Raazem, Colonel of > Infantry, who married Alyde-Rechared de Longueville, from which union > > IV. Josephe Poschet, Esquire [possibly "master of horses"], Lord of > Generet, > Lieutenant-Colonel of the Nassau Regiment, who was married, according to a > contract of 30 May 1523 to Jeanne-Marguerite de Lalaing, of whom he had > > V. Mathieu Poschet, Esquire, Captain of the Nassau Regiment, then Mayor of > the City of Ath, who was married to Alyde Polayndre, Baroness of Kerkhoven, > from which union: > > VI. Gilles Poschet, Esquire, Sargeant-Major of Infantry at the siege of > Ostend, who married, according to a contract of 3 April 1551, Jeanne de > Ghozee, which union produced among other children: > 1. Martin, who follows > 2. and Jean-Baptiste, Knight, President of the Sovereign Counsel fo Namur, > who was father of Pierre, who was knighted by letter of [the abbreviation is > S.M.C which Gus believes is Sa Majeste or His Majesty with C=???, this was > during the reign of Louis XIV], dated January 1664 and Captain in the > Regiment of Colonel de la Mothe > > VII. Martin Poschet, Knight, Lord of Vaux, was married 1st to Anne de > Colnet; and 2nd to Iseabeau Tamison, died childless; Of the first bed came > > VIII Michel Poschet, Esquire, Lorde of Vaux, who married Marie le Mosnier > de > la Lobbe, from which union > > IX. Michel de Poschet, II of the name, Knight, Lord of Vaux, etc. who > married Ursule Jacquier de Gesvres, from who issued > > X. Francois Poschet, Knight, Lord of Nahaut, who, from his household with > Charlotte Poschet [note: no other identity of Charlotte] had > 1. Pierre-Francois, who wished to develop the value of a grant which he > had, > these being lands under the control of The Empire and obtained > letters-patent > from S.M.I. [note: again the abbreviation probably means Sa Majeste or His > Majesty with the I being unknown. This was during the reign of Louis XV] > of > December 17, 1749, who confirmed him, as well as his son in the state of > "the > nobility of the sword" [See History Note at end]; these letters have been > registered at the Chamber of Accounts, Finances and Heraldic Courts for > Brussels, Mons, and Luxembourg the 7, 29, and 30 of January, 1750 > 2. Pierre-Joseph, who established himself in the Provence of Champagne and > whose nobility was continued by an Order of the Steward of the Provence of > September 1741. > 3. and Manie-Cathenine-Therese, who married, according to a contract dated > 1 > April 1723, Louis de Lancy, Lord of the Bois de Caberet [note this > translates > as Tavern Grove], Knight of Saint Louis, Commander of the second batallion > of > the Champagne Regiment, of whom she was widowed, and had, among other > chidren: > 1. Louis-Charles de Lancy, Capitain of the same regiment; > 2. and Nicolas-Charles-Gabriel de Lancy, Capitain in the Conde Regiment, > Infantry. > > [Voy=Voyez] Look: LANCY The Arms: silver, with chevrons of gules [see > Note > following], accompanied by 3 stars of 6 points each, sumounted by a silver > helmet and bounlet [?? could not translate] and gules. Crest: A star of > gules. [Note on heraldry from the Enclylopedia Britannica, "The field or > ground of the shield is of one of three kinds: a colour, a metal, or a fur. > There are five main colours (known as tinctures): azure (blue), gules (red), > sable (black), vert (green), and purpure (purple)." There were also other > colors in English heraldry. [Note, this is the Lancy arms and not directly > of the Poshet's] > > History Notes: In the 18th Century of France, the old nobility were not > producing enough sane and intelligent people to do all of the jobs that were > expected of them. Some who were more able were intrested in increasing > their > own independent power and wealth rather than working for the Crown. So, as > talented people from the bourgeoisie - the wealthy but not noble class - > gained high positions as advisors, they were ennobled by the King. If they > were not Nobles of the Sword, then they were Nobles of the Robe, referring > to > the robe of their official office. Another way to achieve nobility would be > for a rich merchant to marry an empoverished noble daughter. > > Titles, especially at times of royal succession, could get quite confusing > and if a noble backed the side that lost, his land would revert to the crown > through confiscation. This was then re-issued to those now in favor. So, a > Count of xxx would lose his land and have it bestowed on someone else who > would then become the Count of xxx. > > Gretchen Kohl [Alameda,CA] - GretchenKohl@aol.com > > > > Re: Poschet Vaux Cambrai 1500 > Posted by: Michael Allison Date: July 31, 2000 at 11:50:48 > In Reply to: Poschet Vaux Cambrai 1500 by Shirley of 1256 > > > The flip side of this is, unfortunately, that it isn't true. There is plenty > of solid evidence that the POSCHET family's "ALLEGED" noble ancestry is, > bluntly put, an act of intentional fraud. Even more unfortunate is the fact > that there has been absolutely no genealogical connection of the POSEY > family to the POSCHET family established, other than often repeated > erroneous claims which have never included even the first reference to > source documents. Not a single person who claims POSCHET ancestry has ever > produced a single record to back up the claim. Apparently this tale is never > going to die until someone discovers the names of the parents and ancestors > of FRANCIS POSEY. > > As always, I would be thrilled if someone can present even conjectural > evidence of a connection of these two families, but no one ever can. I think > we all know why -- no such evience exists. > > > If anyone wants to see the evidence of the POSCHET SCAM and the act of fraud > behind of all of this, check out the following source. It's written in > French, but worth the effort to get it translated if you want to be able to > let go of this "Poschet mystique" that has been a stumbling block to Posey > research for so long. > > Take a look at an expose of the affair with details about forged documents. > The book is entitled "Les Polchet, Poschet > ou Poschet, une Dynastie de Maitres de Forges de L'entre-Sambre-et-Meuse". > Publisher: Genealogicum Belgicum, > Brussells, Belgium, 1983. I only had to read the brief translations of key > passages to go straight to my files and purge this Poschet business out of > my system. Sure would be nice to have something to put in its place > Posted by: Michael Allison Date: July 31, 2000 at 11:50:48 > In Reply to: Poschet Vaux Cambrai 1500 by Shirley of 1256 > Posted by: Michael Allison Date: July 31, 2000 at 14:23:47 > In Reply to: Re: Poschet Vaux Cambrai 1500 by Michael Allison of 1256 > > > PS > Sorry I forgot to mentioned that LDS has the above noted book. If it is > available on microfilm, I don't know. I do know that it is on the shelf in > Salt Lake City. > > > > > The flip side of this is, unfortunately, that it isn't true. There is plenty > of solid evidence that the POSCHET family's "ALLEGED" noble ancestry is, > bluntly put, an act of intentional fraud. Even more unfortunate is the fact > that there has been absolutely no genealogical connection of the POSEY > family to the POSCHET family established, other than often repeated > erroneous claims which have never included even the first reference to > source documents. Not a single person who claims POSCHET ancestry has ever > produced a single record to back up the claim. Apparently this tale is never > going to die until someone discovers the names of the parents and ancestors > of FRANCIS POSEY. > > As always, I would be thrilled if someone can present even conjectural > evidence of a connection of these two families, but no one ever can. I think > we all know why -- no such evience exists. > > > Followups: > > Re: Poschet Vaux Cambrai 1500 Shirley 7/31/00 > Re: Poschet Vaux Cambrai 1500 Michael Allison 7/31/00 > Re: Poschet Vaux Cambrai 1500 Michael Allison 7/31/00 > > > > >

There appears to be some solid evidence that some of the individuals in the pedgigree were fictitious, others real people. Evidence has been presented that one of the co-called nobles in the pedigree was actually a stableman instead in his "real life". One researcher, apparently quite accomplished, found that a parent and child in the pedigree were indeed real people, but their factual lives were separated by almost two centuries and obviously couldn't have been parent/child. I think the huge gaping hole in the pedigree has been known for quite a while, even before it became common knowledge that the rest of the pedigree was a sham. Apparently many researchers thought it was all real and simply had a "problem area" needing more work to get it all perfect. It all could be worse. If we all had found that the Poschets had been our ancestors, we would've had a mess to clean up. I'm kind of glad those folks aren't our Posey ancestors. With so much intentional fraud to recreate identities, I doubt if the true story of these folks can be found! Posted by: Shirley Date: August 01, 2000 at 08:09:44 In Reply to: Re: Poschet Vaux Cambrai 1500 by Michael Allison of 1264 As always, very good points you bring out. Shirley

Michael mentioned this book in his message on GenForum. Title: Les Polchet, Poschet ou Pochet : une dynastie de matres de forges de L'Entre-Sambre-et-Meuse Stmnt.Resp.: Pierre De Tienne, Baron van der Rest Authors: Tienne, Pierre de (Main Author) Rest , Baron van der (Added Author) Notes: Comprend index des noms de lieu. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Genealogy of the family Polchet, Poschet and Pochet. Subjects: Polchet Poschet Pochet Copies Call Number Location 929.2493 P757t JSMB FAMHIST Book Format: Books/Monographs Language: French Publication: Bruxelles : Genealogicum belgicum, 1983 Physical: 504 p. : ill., armoiries, cartes, gen. table ; 25 cm. Subject Class: 929.2493 P757 Series: Genealogicum Belgicum : 11 © 1999 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved

The first line describes the family as being of German origin. Last night at dinner, Gus and I were discussing this. We all have to become students of general history to really do this family history thing right. As we know, the borders between nations were very fluid throughout history and the French/Dutch/German area of the Rhine valley was particularly changeable. Gus suggests that the "German origin" referred to in the book probably meant the Belgium/Luxembourg, much of which eventually became French. Also, about the word "bounlet" in the healdry description. His big French dictionary did not have this word. Maybe someone can find an internet French enclyclopedia if they are really interested. If so, I can ask Gus to translate whatever is found. I'd be pushing my luck to try to get him to look <g>. He's not interested in genealogy and he's not overly fond of the internet. Gretchen Kohl [Alameda,CA] - GretchenKohl@aol.com

Bits and pieces gathered here and there. Cambrai Cambrai (Flemish Kambryk), city, northern France, in Nord Department, on the Schelde River, also called the Escaut River, in Flanders. It is a farm-trade and manufacturing center; products include textiles, metal items, and processed food. The city formerly was a major center for producing cambric, a fine linen fabric named for the city and first made here. Notable structures are the Cathedral of Notre Dame, the Church of Saint Géry, and the city hall. Population (1990) 34,210. Cambrai, history of In Roman times the city was known as Camaracum. It became the capital of a Frankish kingdom in AD 445 and later (about 800) was fortified by Charlemagne. Much of the medieval history of Cambrai is a record of strife between the ruling bishops (archbishops from the 16th century) and the citizenry. In the late 15th century the city came under the Holy Roman Empire. At Cambrai, in 1508, the kings of France and Spain, the pope, and the Holy Roman emperor formed the League of Cambrai, an alliance against the Venetian Republic. The Peace of Cambrai, signed here in 1529, concluded a war (1527-29) between Francis I of France and Holy Roman Emperor Charles V. The treaty is sometimes referred to as the Paix des Dames (Ladies' Peace), the preliminary negotiations having been conducted by Louise of Savoy, mother of the French king, and Margaret of Austria, aunt of the Holy Roman emperor. Cambrai was annexed by the French crown in 1677. The city was occupied by the Germans and badly damaged in World Wars I and II. Cambrai Pronunciation: [käNbrA´] city (1982 pop. 35,272), Nord dept., N France, a port on the Escaut (Scheldt) River. It has long been known for its fine textiles and gave its name to cambric, first manufactured there. It is an agricultural center; clay, metal, and wood products are also manufactured in Cambrai. An episcopal see since the 4th cent., and seat of an archdiocese since the 16th cent., Cambrai and the surrounding county of Cambrésis were ruled by the bishops under the Holy Roman Empire until they were seized by Spain (1595) and by France (1677). Fénelon was archbishop from 1695 to 1715. The original cathedral was destroyed in 1793. Cambrai suffered devastation in both world wars; it was occupied by the Germans from 1914 to 1918 and from 1940 to 1944. Cambrai, League of 1508-10, alliance formed by Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian I, King Louis XII of France, Pope Julius II, King Ferdinand V of Aragón, and several Italian city-states against the republic of Venice to check its territorial expansion. The republic was soon on the verge of ruin. Its army was defeated by the French at Agnadello (1509); most of the territories it had occupied were lost; and Maximilian entered Venetia. The republic had to make concessions to the pope and to Ferdinand. In 1510 the pope became reconciled to Venice and began forming the Holy League against France. The republic emerged from the war having suffered serious losses but by no means crushed. From the Renaissance to the Revolution Great discoveries and new ideas After the turmoil of the Hundred Year War and the intrigues of Louis XI, the people of France were ready for change. The military campaigns of François I, in the sixteenth century, brought the Italian Renaissance to the court of the King of France. The Valois-Orléans dynasty from which François I originated had its roots in the Loire Valley, and it is there that the most spectacular achievements of the Renaissance can be found. The chateaux of Chambord, Blois, Chenonceau, and Azay le Rideau are among its finest examples, but the conspicuous corruption of the nobility combined with the conflict between François I and his formidable rival, Charles V, Emperor of the Holy Roman and Germanic Empire, King of Spain and Sicily and Prince of the Netherlands, put a great financial strain on the resources of the state. This period was marked by a revolutionary new technique to disseminate ideas: the invention of the printing press by Gutenberg in 1440. It was also marked by voyages of discovery and trade to the New World. In 1492, the Genoese Christopher Colombus discovered and claimed the West Indies, and then in 1498 the coast of America, on behalf of the Spanish Monarchy of Isabel and Ferdinand. In 1534, Jacques Cartier took possession of Canada, or New France, and in 1584, Sir Walter Raleigh founded a colony in North Carolina. The religious schism Henri IV This was a period of great prosperity, and of great divisions. The Holy Roman Empire was divided between Catholicism and Protestantism, which found its way into France through the writings and preaching of Jean Calvin. The wars of religion tore France apart, culminating in the massacre of 3000 Protestants in Paris on August 23, 1572. When Henri IV, a cousin of François I, acceded to the throne of France, he had to renounce his Protestant faith; one of his first acts of government was the proclamation of the Édit de Nantes in 1598, which guaranteed freedom of religion to his subjects, and re-established peace. Absolutism and the century of enlightenment The 17th century was marked by the consolidation of the absolute powers in the hands of the King of France. Louis XIII, who succeeded Henri IV after the latter's assassination, was only a child when he inherited the kingdom. He settled the intrigues of the nobility and the religious factions with authority, after he took over from the Regency that was set up to govern during his childhood. Upon his death in 1643, he was able to pass over a unified kingdom to his son, Louis XIV, then a child of thirteen years of age. However the new Regency faced a rebellion by the Nobility and an insurrection by the people of Paris. The court was temporarily moved to St-Germain, outside of the capital. Having subjugated the rebels, the government and the Monarchy emerged strengthened. From thereon, Louis XIV was going to rule with absolute powers. This was the time of the Sun King, the resplendent monarch who shone above his subjects. However, as a measure of security, Louis XIV moved the court to Versailles, where he had the sumptuous palace built. His strategy of moving the court had two reasons. Certainly, Versailles offered a more secure environment for the King than Paris and its populace, but by bringing the Nobility into these luxurious self-enclosed grounds, where hearsay was a form of information gathering that allowed the King to constantly know who was doing what, Louis established control over the nobles with an assertion that none of its predecessors had been able to demonstrate. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shirley Davis Warren" <swarren2@prodigy.net> To: <POSEY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 4:44 PM Subject: Re: [POSEY-L] French Translation > Re: voyaux cambrai poschet > Posted by: James Russell Brokaw Date: June 02, 2000 at 20:25:40 > In Reply to: voyaux cambrai poschet by Shirley Davis Warren of 6283 > > > I looked up Voyaux on Expedia.com (an online > mapping service) and there is no listing. Possibly the place is very small > and no longer exists. However since it is specified > as Voyaux, Cambrai, I would think it probably > was located in the old archbishopric of Cambrai which I believe was part of > the Spanish Netherlands (now Belgium) until Louis > XIV seized it and incorporated into France. > That would put Voyaux near Cambrai, Nord, France, (northeastern France, near > the Belgian border > > ____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________ Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633 ___________________________________________________________

Re: voyaux cambrai poschet Posted by: James Russell Brokaw Date: June 02, 2000 at 20:25:40 In Reply to: voyaux cambrai poschet by Shirley Davis Warren of 6283 I looked up Voyaux on Expedia.com (an online mapping service) and there is no listing. Possibly the place is very small and no longer exists. However since it is specified as Voyaux, Cambrai, I would think it probably was located in the old archbishopric of Cambrai which I believe was part of the Spanish Netherlands (now Belgium) until Louis XIV seized it and incorporated into France. That would put Voyaux near Cambrai, Nord, France, (northeastern France, near the Belgian border

Gus, Do you know if Cage Posey stayed in Crawford Co., WI until his death? I have lost him in my research after 1860, and haven't been able to locate him in his later life. Also, what county in ND did John die in? I've been trying to "follow" all of the children of William and Elizabeth (Hendley) Posey until their deaths, but lost track of Cage and Lane. Any hints? Do you have all of the information that you need on Micajah (Cage) Posey's parents and grandparents? -Cheryl Posey Hemingway chemingw@conectiv.net > Searching for information on John Posey b.-1841 in Illinois,(John was a > son of Mcajah Cage Posey and Eliza McMakin), d.-1924 in ND. Wife was Louisa > Jane Posey 1840-1877,(cousin and daughter of James Posey and Jerusha Farris). > Children were Elizabeth A b.1862, James M. b.1863or64,Almira J. b.1864, > Ellen b. 1866, Latitia A. b. 1868, Alice B. b. 1871, Clara M. b. 1874 (my > grandmother), Eda R. b. 1876. This family lived in Crawford County, Wisconsin. > After the death of Louisa Jane, John is to have married Catherin Kate Hopwood > in ND. Her maiden name was Hellmund. I would like to know anything about > any of the children of John and Louisa. I understand that one of the girls > married and lived in Taber, Alberta, Canada about 1909. Clara M. married > Francis J. Blanchard in ND and they emigrated to Alberta in 1909. > >

Posted on: Posey Queries Board URL: http://genconnect.rootsweb.com/genbbs.cgi/FamilyAssoc/Posey?read=138 Surname: Posey, McMakin, Hendley ------------------------- Gus, Do you know if Cage Posey stayed in Crawford Co., WI until his death? I have lost him in my research after 1860, and haven't been able to locate him in his later life. Also, what county in ND did John die in? I've been trying to "follow" all of the children of William and Elizabeth (Hendley) Posey until their deaths, but lost track of Cage and Lane. Any hints? I'm also interested in the correct information that you probably have on John and Louisa's family. The information that I currently have is very incomplete. Do you have all of the information that you need on Micajah (Cage)Posey's parents and grandparents? If not, please check out my website at: http://members.tripod.com/~chemingway/genealogy/pafg05.htm#122 I am descended Dennis Posey, brother of Micajah (Cage). -Cheryl Posey Hemingway chemingw@conectiv.net Link: Cheryl's genealogy URL: <http://members.tripod.com/~Chemingway/HomeonWeb.html>

Gretchen, thanks so much for typing this up for us and please tell Gus thank you for us. It was really great of him to take the time to do this. If there is anything I can do to repay him please let me know. This may engender more questions, but we're all looking for answers anyway! You're terrific... Sharon

Thanks I'll check it out. Meanwhile is there more info on Sam Posey in the book? And is there any Roberson info? In a message dated 7/27/00 12:50:43 PM, truffle@jps.net writes: << I have had the book for years and as best as i can remember, ordered it from the address that I gave you. I don't remember the price. Rita ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <.POSEY-L-request@rootsweb.com> Received: from rly-ye02.mx.aol.com (rly-ye02.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.199]) by air-ye04.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:50:43 -0400 Received: from lists5.rootsweb.com (lists5.rootsweb.com [63.92.80.123]) by rly-ye02.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:50:22 -0400 Received: (from slist@localhost) by lists5.rootsweb.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id e6RJoCi12785; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 12:50:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 12:50:12 -0700 X-Original-Sender: truffle@jps.net Thu Jul 27 12:50:12 2000 Message-ID: <39809344.AA331A1C@jps.net> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 12:53:40 -0700 From: "Rita F. Silva" <.truffle@jps.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Old-To: POSEY-L@rootsweb.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [POSEY-L] Sam Posey Poem Resent-Message-ID: <52ICmD.A.iHD.0JJg5@lists5.rootsweb.com> To: POSEY-L@rootsweb.com Resent-From: POSEY-L@rootsweb.com Reply-To: POSEY-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailing-List: <.POSEY-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/783 X-Loop: POSEY-L@rootsweb.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: POSEY-L-request@rootsweb.com >>