Thanks to Tina and Fred, You have helped make sense of this name. I am in my early stages of this search and don't have much info to go on. I read that back in 1882, a lot of Russian/Polish refugees passed through Liverpool on there way to Canada and America and that some of them stayed and married here. If I assume the surname was VAICELIUNAS, is this likely to be a Jewish name and I should concentrate my search of the Jewish community areas of that time. Regards John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tina Ellis" <polska.research@gmail.com> To: <polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [PBS] VAUCHGLANUS or VOUCHYLANUS > Thank you Fred. I did not think to search for a unas ending. VAICELIUNAS > !!! There are listings in the Lithuanian telephone directory. Now the > researcher has at least that much. You are a jewel. I checked Polish > anusz > and had not luck. No matter what I tried I could find anything similar. > Maybe he will find records, which will give him a place name to search. > > This is the Lithuanian online telephone directory, which I used when > trying > to help. http://telefonai.zebra.lt/index.php?language=english > > Tina > > > On 10/7/07, Fred Hoffman <wmfhoffman@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> John Windle <johnwindle@btinternet.com> asked: >> >> > Has anyone heard of a Russian or maybe Polish >> > surname, >> > VAUCHGLANUS or VOUCHYLANUS. I am searching >> > for info on this family who moved from Russia to >> > Liverpool >> > around 1880. In some records the name was >> > shortened to Vouch. >> >> Neither of those names looks or sounds remotely >> Polish or Russian. My best guess would be >> Lithuanian, because Lithuanian surnames often end >> in -ANIS, -ONYS, -ANUS, etc. And as others have >> remarked, Lithuania was part of the Russian Empire >> from roughly 1772 to the end of World War I. So a >> Lithuanian would be categorized as a Russian, >> officially speaking. (Historically Lithuania and >> Poland were long joined as a single nation; and >> between World Wars I and II much of Lithuania was >> ruled by Poland. That could explain how Polish >> became part of the mix.) >> >> If you put a gun to my head and made me guess at >> the original name, I'd guess something along the >> lines of VAICELIUNAS (with a little v mark over >> the C), which would sound kind of like >> "vi-chell-OO-nass." That's a very rough indication >> of what it would sound like -- talk to a >> Lithuanian to hear what it really sounds like. My >> point is that VAICELIUNAS is a moderately common >> name among Lithuanians, and it could easily be >> misspelled by someone who wasn't familiar with the >> name. Also, Lithuanian A often equates to O in >> Russian, and all official documents had to be in >> Russian, with names usually written phonetically >> in the Cyrillic alphabet. It wouldn't be odd for >> VAICELIUNAS to be transliterated into Cyrillic >> characters that equate to VOICHILUNAS. Then when >> someone unfamiliar with Lithuanian tried to render >> that in our alphabet, VOUCHYLANUS could easily be >> the result. >> >> I can't guarantee that this is right, but I've run >> into plenty of similar cases. You have to realize, >> you're talking about 1) Lithuanian names 2) being >> Russified and rendered in Cyrillic, and then 3) >> being spelled out in Roman letters, and then 4) >> being massacred further by people who were totally >> unfamiliar with Russian and Lithuanian. So the Y >> of handwritten VOUCHYLANUS could be misread as a >> G, and the O's misread as A. It's that kind of >> process that could account for where VAUCHGLANUS >> came from. >> >> I know that's a lot of if's and maybe's -- but >> surnames were mutilated all the time, and often >> there's no way to reconstruct the original from >> the mangled version with any certainty. All I'm >> saying is, the name forms you mention sound like >> mutilated Lithuanian to me, and that's plausible >> because Lithuania was officially part of Russia at >> the time. The original name might have been >> something like VAICELIUNAS. Or it might not. >> Proving it, one way or the other, is the tough >> part. But at least these remarks might give you a >> little more to work with. >> >> Fred Hoffman >> Author, _Polish Surnames: Origins & Meanings_ >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Fred seems to think it would be unusual for it to be a Jewish surname. What was his given name? Was it a Christian one or a Jewish one? There are no guarantees, but sometimes that's an easier way to tell. Tina On 10/8/07, John Windle <johnwindle@btinternet.com> wrote: > > Thanks to Tina and Fred, > You have helped make sense of this name. I am in my early stages of this > search and don't have much info to go on. I read that back in 1882, a lot > of > Russian/Polish refugees passed through Liverpool on there way to Canada > and > America and that some of them stayed and married here. If I assume the > surname was VAICELIUNAS, is this likely to be a Jewish name and I should > concentrate my search of the Jewish community areas of that time. > > Regards > John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tina Ellis" <polska.research@gmail.com> > To: <polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 5:39 PM > Subject: Re: [PBS] VAUCHGLANUS or VOUCHYLANUS > > > > Thank you Fred. I did not think to search for a unas > ending. VAICELIUNAS > > !!! There are listings in the Lithuanian telephone directory. Now the > > researcher has at least that much. You are a jewel. I checked Polish > > anusz > > and had not luck. No matter what I tried I could find anything similar. > > Maybe he will find records, which will give him a place name to search. > > > > This is the Lithuanian online telephone directory, which I used when > > trying > > to help. http://telefonai.zebra.lt/index.php?language=english > > > > Tina > > > > > > On 10/7/07, Fred Hoffman <wmfhoffman@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> John Windle <johnwindle@btinternet.com> asked: > >> > >> > Has anyone heard of a Russian or maybe Polish > >> > surname, > >> > VAUCHGLANUS or VOUCHYLANUS. I am searching > >> > for info on this family who moved from Russia to > >> > Liverpool > >> > around 1880. In some records the name was > >> > shortened to Vouch. > >> > >> Neither of those names looks or sounds remotely > >> Polish or Russian. My best guess would be > >> Lithuanian, because Lithuanian surnames often end > >> in -ANIS, -ONYS, -ANUS, etc. And as others have > >> remarked, Lithuania was part of the Russian Empire > >> from roughly 1772 to the end of World War I. So a > >> Lithuanian would be categorized as a Russian, > >> officially speaking. (Historically Lithuania and > >> Poland were long joined as a single nation; and > >> between World Wars I and II much of Lithuania was > >> ruled by Poland. That could explain how Polish > >> became part of the mix.) > >> > >> If you put a gun to my head and made me guess at > >> the original name, I'd guess something along the > >> lines of VAICELIUNAS (with a little v mark over > >> the C), which would sound kind of like > >> "vi-chell-OO-nass." That's a very rough indication > >> of what it would sound like -- talk to a > >> Lithuanian to hear what it really sounds like. My > >> point is that VAICELIUNAS is a moderately common > >> name among Lithuanians, and it could easily be > >> misspelled by someone who wasn't familiar with the > >> name. Also, Lithuanian A often equates to O in > >> Russian, and all official documents had to be in > >> Russian, with names usually written phonetically > >> in the Cyrillic alphabet. It wouldn't be odd for > >> VAICELIUNAS to be transliterated into Cyrillic > >> characters that equate to VOICHILUNAS. Then when > >> someone unfamiliar with Lithuanian tried to render > >> that in our alphabet, VOUCHYLANUS could easily be > >> the result. > >> > >> I can't guarantee that this is right, but I've run > >> into plenty of similar cases. You have to realize, > >> you're talking about 1) Lithuanian names 2) being > >> Russified and rendered in Cyrillic, and then 3) > >> being spelled out in Roman letters, and then 4) > >> being massacred further by people who were totally > >> unfamiliar with Russian and Lithuanian. So the Y > >> of handwritten VOUCHYLANUS could be misread as a > >> G, and the O's misread as A. It's that kind of > >> process that could account for where VAUCHGLANUS > >> came from. > >> > >> I know that's a lot of if's and maybe's -- but > >> surnames were mutilated all the time, and often > >> there's no way to reconstruct the original from > >> the mangled version with any certainty. All I'm > >> saying is, the name forms you mention sound like > >> mutilated Lithuanian to me, and that's plausible > >> because Lithuania was officially part of Russia at > >> the time. The original name might have been > >> something like VAICELIUNAS. Or it might not. > >> Proving it, one way or the other, is the tough > >> part. But at least these remarks might give you a > >> little more to work with. > >> > >> Fred Hoffman > >> Author, _Polish Surnames: Origins & Meanings_ > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >