Hi, In our ongoing discussion of the surname LENDZION, Bob Kowalski <rak@doc.ic.ac.uk> wrote: > Many thanks for so many interesting and helpful > replies. So much for my > theory about the origins of the Lendzion > surname. Perhaps there are several > different origins. And perhaps it is not unusual > that it occurs as both a > Polish and German family name in that part of > the world. These are ideas worth keeping in mind. It's not that unusual for Poles and Germans to bear the same names. Sometimes a name originated with one people and was later borrowed by the other. Sometimes the same basic root was used in both languages, and similar names developed from it. Granted, German and Polish are pretty different languages; but these people have been rubbing up against each other for centuries, and it's not odd that the interaction has produced results. And after all, their languages both came from the same source, the original Proto-Indo-European. If you dig deep enough, you will find similarities. As for the different possible origins of the surname, we run into that all the time. The derivation of some names is clearcut; others seem obvious until you look a little deeper, and then you start uncovering all sorts of unexpected possibilities. For instance, I note that Prof. Rymut also lists LENDZION under names deriving from the Germanic root _land_, which we see in our word _land_. Polish names beginning Land- or Lend- could come directly from the Germanic root, or from the archaic Polish word _lando_ or _lendo_, which in turn came into the language from that Germanic root. It's interesting also that some scholars suggest the name for the ancient Slavic group the Lendzians, whom Danuta mentioned, may also have come from that basic root. So the name might come from the word for the perennial sweetpea, or from the basic Germanic root meaning "land," or from the name of the Lendzians. Only really detailed and successful research into the family history might clarify which of these possible derivations actually applies in your family's case. And don't forget, the derivation that works in your family's case might not apply to another Lendzion family. You just can't afford to assume anything! I'll make one comment, however. By and large, surnames tend to come from concrete, familiar, everyday things, and less often from scholarly hypotheses or obscure references. Obviously there are always exceptions, but if I had to pick one, I'd say the link with the term for the sweetpea is most likely, simply because it's most direct and obvious. I don't know how likely it is, for instance, that a surname attested back to the16th century at the earliest would come from the name of an ancient Slavic people. I just don't know how many people living in Polish lands in the 16th-18th centuries, when surnames were really taking hold, had ever heard of the Lendzians. Offhand I can't think of any other surnames that clearly came from those names of ancient Slavic peoples (although I certainly could be wrong). And if it's a choice between "the land guy" from a Germanic root, or "the sweetpea guy," the latter just strikes me as more likely. Some surnames are nebulous or abstract, some are fancy; but most pointed to a direct connection with something familiar. All of which, of course, means nothing if your research points in another direction. > In fact, I drove to Poland (from England) last > year and briefly visited > Czerwinsk. I visited two of the local cemeteries > and couldn't find a single > Lendzion, Czanowski or Skowronski surname. I > wrote afterwards to the priest > in Pieniazkowo (the Catholic church for > Cziewinsk), but he could find > nothing, and his records went back to only > around the 1880s. Hard to say. The 1990 database at http://www.herby.com.pl/herby/indexslo.html shows CZANOWSKI (actually the feminine form, CZANOWSKA) with a frequency of 0, which means the name was in the database of Polish citizens as of 1990, but the entry was incomplete. The name might have been misspelled, or it might have been the maiden name of a woman who'd recently married, or the surname of a person who'd died recently. What's clear is that there don't seem to be an Czanowski's in Poland any more, wherever they may once have lived. For that matter, how sure are you about that name? Names have often been mangled, and the first thing you need to be sure of is that you aren't looking for the wrong name! > I am not too sure where to go from here. I have > visited the LDS family > centre in London in the past. Do you think it > might be worth another visit? > I visit Poland from time to time, and am always > looking for an excuse to go > back. Is there anywhere else I might visit while > I am there? Pultusk? I'm not sure what to suggest. SKOWRONSKI is a moderately common surname all over Poland -- the 1990 database shows over 15,000 Polish citizens by that name, with no particular concentration in any one area. I already cited the data for LENDZION; the highest concentration for that particular spelling is in the east-central provinces of Siedlce (277) and Warsaw (176), with the next-largest number, 160, in the north-central province of Torun. Not a lot of help, but that's normal; comparatively few Polish surnames are so highly concentrated in a single area as to provide a useful clue where to look (though there are always exceptions). I guess the key is to keep digging, and don't be too quick to give up on Czerwinsk. A surname without a place of origin is pretty useless; but if you can link a surname with a specific place, that's when you have a real chance. There may not be any people with your names still living in the area, but don't jump to conclusions. Some researchers have found nothing in the specific area where they expected to, but widened their search to neighboring communities and struck paydirt. If you don't mind visiting the LDS Family History Center, you might request films for other parishes near Czerwinsk and see if you can find anything useful. There are no guarantees, of course. But if you have the time and don't mind searching, I'd keep looking in that general area. Often there are records of people's movement; when you moved from one place to another, you were supposed to register with the authorities in your new community, and the record keepers in the old one would make a note in their registers that you had moved away. If your ancestor did live in Czerwinsk at some point, local population registers might tell when and where she came there, and where she came from. So don't focus only on parish registers of births, marriages, and deaths. See if you can get a look at other kinds of records for that area. Good luck! Fred Hoffman