To all my fellow listers...Regarding the camps: I don't think it is necessary to define how many or if they were Jews, Poles gays, etc. They were all people of this planet whose lives were taken away indiscriminately, tearing children from their mothers and elders from their children, does it really matter what religion or country they were from. It continues today and that is what we need to be concerned with. How are we allowing this genocide to continue after all of that. Get real people. These are lives that were taken from us, that many of us never had the joy of meeting. Our grandparent, aunts etc. Can we grow up and not talk of who again. It is what happened that is unforgettable and should be remembered and discussed. We all have our personal stories of the pain, we just have to insure that it doesn't continue. I think we need to end this polarizing discussion. Respectfully and with understanding, Leah On Jul 19, 2007, at 6:14 PM, polandbordersurnames- request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > When replying to a letter, which is in the digest, please delete > the other letters out of your message. Please, also, change the > subject, so the person to whom you are replying understands that > your reply is for him/her. > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Camps (Jack and Rose) > 2. Re: Camps (Jack and Rose) > 3. Re: POLANDBORDERSURNAMES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 369 (joanie w) > 4. Re: POLANDBORDERSURNAMES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 369 (joanie w) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 20:08:08 -0400 > From: Jack and Rose <thankgod@optonline.net> > Subject: Re: [PBS] Camps > To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <001201c7ca62$0d6ecf00$6500a8c0@ROSE> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; > reply-type=original > > It is all so horrifying and must never happen again > Evil must be stopped at all cost, if possible! > God bless and thanks for all of the information > Rose Zydel Olson > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roman" <romanka@comcast.net> > To: <polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 7:21 PM > Subject: Re: [PBS] Camps > > > Sandi, > > In a purely technical sense, your characterization of a "vast > majority" > below is off the mark when the numbers you cite claim that just a bit > more than 50% of the victims were Jews. We should be mindful that the > victims of Nazi extermination included a large number of "Catholic > Poles" and so-called "political prisoners". > > The extermination campaign was focused on both Poles and Jews. The > 9-11 > million victims represented almost 1/3rd of the entire population of > pre-war Poland. Of these 36 million Poles only 3.3 million were Jews. > The 6 million you site consists of about 3 million Jews and 3 million > Catholic Poles. > > The presentation (http://www.warsawuprising.com/paper/wrobel1.htm) by > professor Piotr Wr?bel makes for compelling reading. > > Roman > > Sandi Watters wrote: >> Hello everyone! >> >> >> The vast majority of victims were Jewish. We can never forget that. >> Nearly >> the entire Jewish population of Poland was exterminated as part of >> Hitler's >> "Final Solution." No one would ever deny that other groups were >> targeted >> and persecuted. Wikipedia, in its section on "The Holocaust," lists >> "Roma, >> Soviet POWs, disabled people, gay men, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholic >> Poles, >> and political prisoners." But we must remember that of the >> estimated 9-11 >> million that suffered and died in the death camps, 6 million were >> Jews, >> over >> 3 million at Auschwitz alone. >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 20:09:39 -0400 > From: Jack and Rose <thankgod@optonline.net> > Subject: Re: [PBS] Camps > To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <002a01c7ca62$441151e0$6500a8c0@ROSE> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; > reply-type=original > > I must say, we have taken on a much more important subject matter > than " > stuffed-Cabbages" now > Thank you all > Rose Zydel Olson > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gerald Cierpilowski" <gcierpil@comcast.net> > To: <polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 8:00 PM > Subject: Re: [PBS] Camps > > >> Friends, >> >> I won't belabor the discussion on concentration/extermination camps >> beyond this note unless someone writes me personally. However there >> are many other considerations in addition to the two most well-known. >> Each of these had its own personality to accompany the atrocities. I >> have visited some of them and have spent time with people who >> survived >> them. >> >> I call attention to Majdanek in Lublin, as well as the city of Lublin >> itself including its castle where executions and tortures took place. >> Any internet search engine will give you more than you want to know >> about Majdanek or it city. Michner's "Poland", though a novel, has >> much information that give a vivid picture of what took place at that >> camp. >> >> Though not part of the geography of Poland it self, the >> deportations to >> Siberia are events that many if not most people do not know about. >> 1.7 >> million Polish citizens were taken from their homes along eastern >> Poland, deported to Siberia and similar regions to do slave labor in >> the camps there. My wife's aunt (89 yrs) is a survivor of this >> "Forgotten Odyssey" and my wife has compiled and written a first hand >> account (in Polish and English) of her 6 years without a country >> -- and >> finally being found in Africa through the efforts of the American Red >> Cross. A similar, true story is the young people's book "The Endless >> Steppe" by Esther Hautzig. It is the journey of a Lithuanian teen as >> she and her family were take to the camps and eventually returned to >> Poland after the war. It is a fine read for all ages. >> >> Two web sites that are directly related to this later, tragic >> facet of >> the story of Poles during and after WW2 are listed below. >> >> Respectfully, >> Gerald Cierpilowski >> >> http://www.kresy-siberia.org/ >> >> "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish >> citizens deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during >> World >> War Two" >> >> http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/ >> >> "This site is connected to 'A Forgotten Odyssey', a recent >> documentary >> film by Jagna Wright and Aneta Naszynska. It deals with the forgotten >> tragedy of 1.7 million Polish citizens of various faiths and >> ethnicities (Polish, Ukrainian, Belorussian, Catholic, Orthodox, >> Jewish) deported from eastern Poland (Kresy) in 1940-42 to special >> labour camps in Siberia, Kazakhstan and Soviet Asia. Some 120,000 of >> these escaped through Persia in 1942 as soldiers of Anders Army and >> their families - and eventually made their way to the West because >> their pre-war homeland was consigned by the Allies to remain under >> the >> hated Soviet regime." >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:04:31 -0700 (PDT) > From: joanie w <peekaboobrat@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [PBS] POLANDBORDERSURNAMES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 369 > To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <830864.10149.qm@web57608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Dear Sonia: > Not knowing if you can drive the 600km distance, or the highways/ > roads to Przemysl, I still wish you well. It will be an > accomplishment. If you make it there ,maybe you can solve some of > my searches "smiles" > > I found plentiful Jewish Surnames through the various Poland > sites, but would like to know where can I find an index for > Catholic Surnames of Sanok which include: > > Pielnia, "Krosno," Wroblik Szlachecki, "Rymanow," "Przemysl," > Podkarpackie, > > Deszno, Tarnawka, and Sieniawa > > The ones above, I darkened and placed in quotes, are on maps and > easily seen. My ancestors listed below lived in this triangle of > Krosno Rymanow and Przemysl. Maybe you can keep them in mind as > you travel. > > The Greek Catholic STRUS BURKO KRAWEC from Wroblik Szlachecki & > > the Roman Catholic BEDNARCZYK > MOSKAL OR MOSKALIK from Pielnia Poland surnames were not seen in > Wroblik Krolewski. I don't know where to go from here. I've > written every Archive I could think of. People told me it will be > easy once one has one's Ancestors Town and Country. > Well, the Other Catholic Churches or addresses were not given to > me yet. > > Thank you for any resouces or referrals which may help me to find > information about them. > > Joan Wielgus [Wielgos was from Kielce Poland] > ------._,_.___ > > polandbordersurnames-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:23:08 -0400 > From: "Sonia van Heerden" > Subject: [PBS] Trip by car in Poland > To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > > Hi experts > > I have been advised by my relatives that we will be travelling by > car from > Pienzino in the northeast part of Poland to Przemysl in the > southeast by > car, and I gather they want to do it in one day. They have told me > it is > about 600 km. > > Has anyone travelled that far in one day by car? Do you think it > can be > done? > > Sonia > > > > --------------------------------- > Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos > new Car Finder tool. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:13:49 -0700 (PDT) > From: joanie w <peekaboobrat@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [PBS] POLANDBORDERSURNAMES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 369 > To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com > Cc: Sonia van Heerden <soniavanheerden@hotmail.com> > Message-ID: <145473.92115.qm@web57601.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > ------._,_.___ > > polandbordersurnames-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:23:08 -0400 > From: "Sonia van Heerden" > Subject: [PBS] Trip by car in Poland > To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > > Hi experts > > I have been advised by my relatives that we will be travelling by > car from > Pienzino in the northeast part of Poland to Przemysl in the > southeast by > car, and I gather they want to do it in one day. They have told me > it is > about 600 km. > > Has anyone travelled that far in one day by car? Do you think it > can be > done? > > Sonia > > > > --------------------------------- > Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see > what's on, when. > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the POLANDBORDERSURNAMES list administrator, send an > email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the POLANDBORDERSURNAMES mailing list, send an > email to POLANDBORDERSURNAMES@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of POLANDBORDERSURNAMES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 372 > ****************************************************