Maybe the name changes were not on purpose at the immigration purposes, but there were changes. For example: My grandmother and her two sons were shown on three separate Ellis Island manifests out of Hamburg. The first two show that they were "scratched" for some reason and did not arrive in New York. Each of the three manifests had the surname spelled differently; and NONE of the spellings was correct. Each of them were spelled the way they SOUNDED in English. I have other examples in my family as well. Names WERE changed. Jerry Lock Haven, PA Detroit MI On Feb 16, 2009, at 10:21 AM, C. Bukoski wrote: > > Hi Gloria, > > May I ask what your source is for the childrens' names, dates, and > places of birth? Do you have actual baptismal certificates? > > Regarding the changing of family names at immigration, that is a > myth. Immigration was pretty big business at the turn of the 20th > century. Immigrants travelled with passports which would have their > names spelled out (though not in English) and the translators were > available at the ports of arrival (and probably departure). If > anything, names would have changed (for any variety of reasons) > after they settled in North America. > > Regards, > > Chris >> From: [email protected]> To: >> [email protected]> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:53:33 >> -0800> Subject: [PBS] Can someone help me?> > This is the first >> time I have written to this site but I have been receiving> emails >> from you for several months. I do not speak Polish, or Russian so >> I> am at a disadvantage. When I try to search in that area I just >> get lost.> > > > I am working on my husbands family's geneology. >> His family always said they> were Polish or White Russian but >> records that various members of the family> have put together >> simply say Russian. I have spend hours and hours> searching for the >> family but am totally at a loss where to go next. Can> someone help >> me? This is what I have of the family records. My husbands> >> grandfathers name was Joseph Antypowich.> > > > Joseph (Josef, >> Yusif) Antypowich (Antipowich, Antipovich, Antipowicz,> Antipovicz, >> Antipowitcz, Antepovitcz, Chwatt? Chavit??)> > Born in 1852 in >> Russia> > Married in 1879-1899 in Russia to> > > Julianna >> Kulchitsky (Kulchytsky,Kulezycki, Kulczycki) In Canada the family> >> knew her as Helen and most of them didn't realize that her name> > >> was Juianna until it> showed up on the 1906 and 1911 Canadian >> Census, and later again on a> baptisimal record for her son John.> >> > Julianna was born in> Russia in 1866-1868 ( Family stories say >> she was 15 when she got married)> > > > Living children of this >> marriage born in Russia before they immigrated to> Canada in 1904 >> were:> > > > 1. Simeon Chwatt Antipowicz born Aug 12, 1881 in >> Kovov, Odessa, Russia.> > 2. Cornella (Kornella) born 1883 in >> Russia.> 3. Victor born July 17, 1888 in Kovov, Torhaewacka >> (Torhaevaa??))> Russia . Victor married Lena Melashenko born March >> 22, 1892 in Petroka,> Harkow, Russia. She was the daughter of John >> F. Melashenko and Ywdokia> Hardenko. > 4. John born July 1891 in >> Torhaevaa, Russia.> 5. Michalena born in 1893 in Rusia> 6. Johanna >> born May 27, 1902 in Crimea, Russia> 7. Pertosi (Parask? Bertosi? - >> he was called Joe in Canada) born> in1903, in Russia.> > Note: They >> had several other children that died. One child, Olga, who was> >> born in 1892 died in 1904 before the family left. Truthfully they >> had> children almost regularly on a yearly basis. They lost at >> least 5 other> children from what the family records show.> > > > >> Family stories say that the family came to the port in Halifax in >> June of> 1904. I searched every ship record for the port of Halifax >> in 1904alifax> inin and found nothing. So then I checked passengers >> lists for Montreal,> Quebec in 1904, I did not find a family of 9 >> with any of the variations of> Antypowich on any of the ships. But >> I did find a family of 9 that arrived> in Montreal on July 12, 1904 >> on board the SS Halifax., which had boarded> passengers at >> Rotterdam and Havre. Normally I would not have even looked at> the >> group because the name was in no way Antypowich, it was Chivat.> >> However, they were listed as being "Poles" and there were 9 of them >> and I> instantly saw that some of the names were the same as the >> Antypowich family:> Simon, Victor, John, Michalena, Partose, and >> Johanna. Closer examination> showed that the fathers name was Yusif >> ( which I later learned is apparently> a Bulgarian form of Joseph); >> the mothers was hard to decipher but it ended> with "anna" and the >> other child was recorded as Codela which I reasoned> could be >> Cornella or possibly a form of it. The birth years of all the> >> family with exception of the two youngest children were off by a >> variety of> years. Remarkably though, all of the listed children >> were born in the same> chronological order as the Antypowich family >> I was looking for. This> family's destination was Winnipeg and I >> knew that was where the Antypowich> family went before they started >> out for Saskatchewan.> > > > I searched the 1904 and 1911 Canadian >> Census records and I did not find this> Chivat family again. I also >> looked at the records of people crossing from> Canada into the USA. >> I didn't find them. > > > > The family stories say that Joseph said >> that the family name had got changed> at immigration because of >> language differences. I always imagined that was> in Canada. But >> maybe it was in Russia or Rotterdam or maybe from Havre if> they >> boarded there??. Then just recently I got some copies of land> >> application from the Saskatchewan government and found Simon was >> recorded> as Simon Chwatt Antipowicz on his application for land.. >> None of the> existing family can remember anything about that name >> nor can they explain> it. From what I know about that generation of >> the family and from looking at> their hand writing, I do not think >> the family had any education but Simon> was the oldest child and I >> would think he might have known what his name was> back in Russia. >> Is it possible that the familys name was actually CHWATT> and it >> got changed at immigration to CHIVAT. But then where did the> >> Antipowicz name came from? Was it a patronomic? At the time the >> family> members were making application for land every one of them >> spelled their> Antypowich surname a different way.> > > > Another >> thing is that the remaining family members (all of whom are Joseph> >> Antypowich's grandchildren) are elderly and sometimes they just >> don't> remember but when they think about things they come up with >> little tidbits.> The last time I talked to John Antypowichs >> daughter she said her father said> that they recorded some of the >> children as being younger than they were,> because the tickets for >> passage were less expensive for younger children.> This could >> account for the difference in birth years for the Civat family-if> >> they happen to be the same family.> > > > I am at a dead end and if >> someone could help me I would so appreciate it.> > > > Gloria >> Antypowich> > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message > _________________________________________________________________ > Twice the fun—Share photos while you chat with Windows Live Messenger. > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/messenger.aspx > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message
My two cents: An Ancestor Texeira (pronounced Teshera) arrived NY in 1905- FINALLY found her- named spelled JESHARA. Found her is subsequent censuses: Teshera, Tashara, Tishera.....sometimes, I think it wa also a bit of "apathy" on the part of the "government employees"- just quicker to write what it sounds like, and perhaps, to them it didn't really "matter". -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gerald Cierpilowski Sent: February-16-09 7:36 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PBS] Name change "myth" Maybe the name changes were not on purpose at the immigration purposes, but there were changes. For example: My grandmother and her two sons were shown on three separate Ellis Island manifests out of Hamburg. The first two show that they were "scratched" for some reason and did not arrive in New York. Each of the three manifests had the surname spelled differently; and NONE of the spellings was correct. Each of them were spelled the way they SOUNDED in English. I have other examples in my family as well. Names WERE changed. Jerry Lock Haven, PA Detroit MI On Feb 16, 2009, at 10:21 AM, C. Bukoski wrote: > > Hi Gloria, > > May I ask what your source is for the childrens' names, dates, and > places of birth? Do you have actual baptismal certificates? > > Regarding the changing of family names at immigration, that is a > myth. Immigration was pretty big business at the turn of the 20th > century. Immigrants travelled with passports which would have their > names spelled out (though not in English) and the translators were > available at the ports of arrival (and probably departure). If > anything, names would have changed (for any variety of reasons) > after they settled in North America. > > Regards, > > Chris >> From: [email protected]> To: >> [email protected]> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:53:33 >> -0800> Subject: [PBS] Can someone help me?> > This is the first >> time I have written to this site but I have been receiving> emails >> from you for several months. I do not speak Polish, or Russian so >> I> am at a disadvantage. When I try to search in that area I just >> get lost.> > > > I am working on my husbands family's geneology. >> His family always said they> were Polish or White Russian but >> records that various members of the family> have put together >> simply say Russian. I have spend hours and hours> searching for the >> family but am totally at a loss where to go next. Can> someone help >> me? This is what I have of the family records. My husbands> >> grandfathers name was Joseph Antypowich.> > > > Joseph (Josef, >> Yusif) Antypowich (Antipowich, Antipovich, Antipowicz,> Antipovicz, >> Antipowitcz, Antepovitcz, Chwatt? Chavit??)> > Born in 1852 in >> Russia> > Married in 1879-1899 in Russia to> > > Julianna >> Kulchitsky (Kulchytsky,Kulezycki, Kulczycki) In Canada the family> >> knew her as Helen and most of them didn't realize that her name> > >> was Juianna until it> showed up on the 1906 and 1911 Canadian >> Census, and later again on a> baptisimal record for her son John.> >> > Julianna was born in> Russia in 1866-1868 ( Family stories say >> she was 15 when she got married)> > > > Living children of this >> marriage born in Russia before they immigrated to> Canada in 1904 >> were:> > > > 1. Simeon Chwatt Antipowicz born Aug 12, 1881 in >> Kovov, Odessa, Russia.> > 2. Cornella (Kornella) born 1883 in >> Russia.> 3. Victor born July 17, 1888 in Kovov, Torhaewacka >> (Torhaevaa??))> Russia . Victor married Lena Melashenko born March >> 22, 1892 in Petroka,> Harkow, Russia. She was the daughter of John >> F. Melashenko and Ywdokia> Hardenko. > 4. John born July 1891 in >> Torhaevaa, Russia.> 5. Michalena born in 1893 in Rusia> 6. Johanna >> born May 27, 1902 in Crimea, Russia> 7. Pertosi (Parask? Bertosi? - >> he was called Joe in Canada) born> in1903, in Russia.> > Note: They >> had several other children that died. One child, Olga, who was> >> born in 1892 died in 1904 before the family left. Truthfully they >> had> children almost regularly on a yearly basis. They lost at >> least 5 other> children from what the family records show.> > > > >> Family stories say that the family came to the port in Halifax in >> June of> 1904. I searched every ship record for the port of Halifax >> in 1904alifax> inin and found nothing. So then I checked passengers >> lists for Montreal,> Quebec in 1904, I did not find a family of 9 >> with any of the variations of> Antypowich on any of the ships. But >> I did find a family of 9 that arrived> in Montreal on July 12, 1904 >> on board the SS Halifax., which had boarded> passengers at >> Rotterdam and Havre. Normally I would not have even looked at> the >> group because the name was in no way Antypowich, it was Chivat.> >> However, they were listed as being "Poles" and there were 9 of them >> and I> instantly saw that some of the names were the same as the >> Antypowich family:> Simon, Victor, John, Michalena, Partose, and >> Johanna. Closer examination> showed that the fathers name was Yusif >> ( which I later learned is apparently> a Bulgarian form of Joseph); >> the mothers was hard to decipher but it ended> with "anna" and the >> other child was recorded as Codela which I reasoned> could be >> Cornella or possibly a form of it. The birth years of all the> >> family with exception of the two youngest children were off by a >> variety of> years. Remarkably though, all of the listed children >> were born in the same> chronological order as the Antypowich family >> I was looking for. This> family's destination was Winnipeg and I >> knew that was where the Antypowich> family went before they started >> out for Saskatchewan.> > > > I searched the 1904 and 1911 Canadian >> Census records and I did not find this> Chivat family again. I also >> looked at the records of people crossing from> Canada into the USA. >> I didn't find them. > > > > The family stories say that Joseph said >> that the family name had got changed> at immigration because of >> language differences. I always imagined that was> in Canada. But >> maybe it was in Russia or Rotterdam or maybe from Havre if> they >> boarded there??. Then just recently I got some copies of land> >> application from the Saskatchewan government and found Simon was >> recorded> as Simon Chwatt Antipowicz on his application for land.. >> None of the> existing family can remember anything about that name >> nor can they explain> it. From what I know about that generation of >> the family and from looking at> their hand writing, I do not think >> the family had any education but Simon> was the oldest child and I >> would think he might have known what his name was> back in Russia. >> Is it possible that the familys name was actually CHWATT> and it >> got changed at immigration to CHIVAT. But then where did the> >> Antipowicz name came from? Was it a patronomic? At the time the >> family> members were making application for land every one of them >> spelled their> Antypowich surname a different way.> > > > Another >> thing is that the remaining family members (all of whom are Joseph> >> Antypowich's grandchildren) are elderly and sometimes they just >> don't> remember but when they think about things they come up with >> little tidbits.> The last time I talked to John Antypowichs >> daughter she said her father said> that they recorded some of the >> children as being younger than they were,> because the tickets for >> passage were less expensive for younger children.> This could >> account for the difference in birth years for the Civat family-if> >> they happen to be the same family.> > > > I am at a dead end and if >> someone could help me I would so appreciate it.> > > > Gloria >> Antypowich> > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message > _________________________________________________________________ > Twice the fun-Share photos while you chat with Windows Live Messenger. > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/messenger.aspx > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
I agree - any person coming from a country that did not have English as their language, stood the risk of having their name changed to what it sounded like, in English. All agents that handled passengers coming from overseas spoke only English, and could not be bothered to wait for a translator. I found this to be the case in several names I am researching, and was told this as well by my grandparents. Muriel -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gerald Cierpilowski Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:36 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PBS] Name change "myth" Maybe the name changes were not on purpose at the immigration purposes, but there were changes. For example: My grandmother and her two sons were shown on three separate Ellis Island manifests out of Hamburg. The first two show that they were "scratched" for some reason and did not arrive in New York. Each of the three manifests had the surname spelled differently; and NONE of the spellings was correct. Each of them were spelled the way they SOUNDED in English. I have other examples in my family as well. Names WERE changed. Jerry Lock Haven, PA Detroit MI On Feb 16, 2009, at 10:21 AM, C. Bukoski wrote: > > Hi Gloria, > > May I ask what your source is for the childrens' names, dates, and > places of birth? Do you have actual baptismal certificates? > > Regarding the changing of family names at immigration, that is a > myth. Immigration was pretty big business at the turn of the 20th > century. Immigrants travelled with passports which would have their > names spelled out (though not in English) and the translators were > available at the ports of arrival (and probably departure). If > anything, names would have changed (for any variety of reasons) > after they settled in North America. >