Also the US census mutilated some names. Kujalowicz was listed in a variety of spellings and my grandmother's first name Theodosia was not even recognizable on some! Jacqueline Szymanowski 3921 Random Lane Sacramento CA 95864 [email protected] > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 11:54:59 -0600 > Subject: Re: [PBS] Name change "myth" > > I agree - any person coming from a country that did not have English as > their language, stood the risk of having their name changed to what it > sounded like, in English. All agents that handled passengers coming from > overseas spoke only English, and could not be bothered to wait for a > translator. I found this to be the case in several names I am researching, > and was told this as well by my grandparents. > > Muriel > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gerald > Cierpilowski > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:36 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PBS] Name change "myth" > > Maybe the name changes were not on purpose at the immigration > purposes, but there were changes. For example: > > My grandmother and her two sons were shown on three separate Ellis > Island manifests out of Hamburg. The first two show that they were > "scratched" for some reason and did not arrive in New York. Each of > the three manifests had the surname spelled differently; and NONE of > the spellings was correct. Each of them were spelled the way they > SOUNDED in English. I have other examples in my family as well. Names > WERE changed. > > Jerry > Lock Haven, PA > Detroit MI > > > On Feb 16, 2009, at 10:21 AM, C. Bukoski wrote: > > > > > Hi Gloria, > > > > May I ask what your source is for the childrens' names, dates, and > > places of birth? Do you have actual baptismal certificates? > > > > Regarding the changing of family names at immigration, that is a > > myth. Immigration was pretty big business at the turn of the 20th > > century. Immigrants travelled with passports which would have their > > names spelled out (though not in English) and the translators were > > available at the ports of arrival (and probably departure). If > > anything, names would have changed (for any variety of reasons) > > after they settled in North America. > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I also agree. Cyndi of http://www.cyndislist.com/ says a lot on her name change pages to the effect that the government spent a fortune hiring native translators and that name changes could not have taken place at Ellis Island because the names had to match the original documents. What she fails (as I recall) to mention is that there is no single right way to transliterate a name using a different alphabet. The few ancestors I have found in old records have their names spelled many, many ways. I count at least two dozen ways to spell Vishnick, and around a dozen of these were used by my ancestors. Even simple names like Kaplansky and Kamientsky also have many, many ways. >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> >> I agree - any person coming from a country that did not have English as >> their language, stood the risk of having their name changed to what it >> sounded like, in English. All agents that handled passengers coming from >> overseas spoke only English, and could not be bothered to wait for a >> translator. I found this to be the case in several names I am >> researching, >> and was told this as well by my grandparents. >> >> Muriel

I have compiled some facts about my family name from about 1850 and on. Name is; Nedzinskas, from Lithuanian/Russia Niedzinski, spelling in Polish from church records (There is also a Cyrillic spelling that I will not even try) Nedsinsky, spelling by German transportation company Nedzinski, first spelling in US Nedinskas, spelling version used by local merchants in Western PA Nedinsky, Used on Naturalization papers And finally during the 1910 to 1940 some of my relatives got a Lithuania nationalism and changed their name to Nedzinskas Rich Nedinsky San Jose, CA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of jakki szymanowski Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 2:07 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PBS] Name change "myth" Also the US census mutilated some names. Kujalowicz was listed in a variety of spellings and my grandmother's first name Theodosia was not even recognizable on some! Jacqueline Szymanowski 3921 Random Lane Sacramento CA 95864 [email protected] > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 11:54:59 -0600 > Subject: Re: [PBS] Name change "myth" > > I agree - any person coming from a country that did not have English > as their language, stood the risk of having their name changed to what > it sounded like, in English. All agents that handled passengers > coming from overseas spoke only English, and could not be bothered to > wait for a translator. I found this to be the case in several names I > am researching, and was told this as well by my grandparents. > > Muriel > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gerald > Cierpilowski > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:36 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PBS] Name change "myth" > > Maybe the name changes were not on purpose at the immigration > purposes, but there were changes. For example: > > My grandmother and her two sons were shown on three separate Ellis > Island manifests out of Hamburg. The first two show that they were > "scratched" for some reason and did not arrive in New York. Each of > the three manifests had the surname spelled differently; and NONE of > the spellings was correct. Each of them were spelled the way they > SOUNDED in English. I have other examples in my family as well. Names > WERE changed. > > Jerry > Lock Haven, PA > Detroit MI > > > On Feb 16, 2009, at 10:21 AM, C. Bukoski wrote: > > > > > Hi Gloria, > > > > May I ask what your source is for the childrens' names, dates, and > > places of birth? Do you have actual baptismal certificates? > > > > Regarding the changing of family names at immigration, that is a > > myth. Immigration was pretty big business at the turn of the 20th > > century. Immigrants travelled with passports which would have their > > names spelled out (though not in English) and the translators were > > available at the ports of arrival (and probably departure). If > > anything, names would have changed (for any variety of reasons) > > after they settled in North America. > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I think the question of whether name "changes" took place is really a matter of semantics. Of course there were errors made on the passenger manifests, census records, etc. The simple fact is that none of these resulted in a legal name change. Many immigrants were illiterate, or at a minimum were not English speakers. Therefore, few of these would know the "correct" spelling of their name and probably didn't settle on a spelling until years later. Jeff On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 4:07 PM, jakki szymanowski <[email protected]> wrote: > > Also the US census mutilated some names. Kujalowicz was listed in a variety of spellings and my grandmother's first name Theodosia was not even recognizable on some! > > Jacqueline Szymanowski > > 3921 Random Lane > > Sacramento CA 95864 > > [email protected] > > > > > > >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 11:54:59 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [PBS] Name change "myth" >> >> I agree - any person coming from a country that did not have English as >> their language, stood the risk of having their name changed to what it >> sounded like, in English. All agents that handled passengers coming from >> overseas spoke only English, and could not be bothered to wait for a >> translator. I found this to be the case in several names I am researching, >> and was told this as well by my grandparents. >> >> Muriel >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gerald >> Cierpilowski >> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:36 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [PBS] Name change "myth" >> >> Maybe the name changes were not on purpose at the immigration >> purposes, but there were changes. For example: >> >> My grandmother and her two sons were shown on three separate Ellis >> Island manifests out of Hamburg. The first two show that they were >> "scratched" for some reason and did not arrive in New York. Each of >> the three manifests had the surname spelled differently; and NONE of >> the spellings was correct. Each of them were spelled the way they >> SOUNDED in English. I have other examples in my family as well. Names >> WERE changed. >> >> Jerry >> Lock Haven, PA >> Detroit MI >> >> >> On Feb 16, 2009, at 10:21 AM, C. Bukoski wrote: >> >> > >> > Hi Gloria, >> > >> > May I ask what your source is for the childrens' names, dates, and >> > places of birth? Do you have actual baptismal certificates? >> > >> > Regarding the changing of family names at immigration, that is a >> > myth. Immigration was pretty big business at the turn of the 20th >> > century. Immigrants travelled with passports which would have their >> > names spelled out (though not in English) and the translators were >> > available at the ports of arrival (and probably departure). If >> > anything, names would have changed (for any variety of reasons) >> > after they settled in North America. >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I was also talking about birth and marriage records in England and the US for my Vishnick family. The birth records have been horribly elusive, and I think those names are official legal names, aren't they? No, strictly speaking, it is not a name change of an individual, it is giving a new family member a different surname spelling than the rest of the family. We have Fishnick, Wisnick, Vishnick and Vishnek, as birth record spellings I can say for sure, all one family, name was obviously transliterated on the birth certificates. There may be more in this one family, those were just the ones I could turn up quickly. I can hardly wait to find out how one that is eluding me turns out to have been spelled, I am in touch with the daughter, so we know when and where, but no one has been able to find the birth record which we believe was definitely reported. > I think the question of whether name "changes" took place is really a > matter of semantics. Of course there were errors made on the > passenger manifests, census records, etc. The simple fact is that > none of these resulted in a legal name change.

Talk about name changes, misspellings, etc. My family probably takes the award. When my grandfather arrived on Ellis island be spelled his last name Bonczek. He arrives in 1899. On the back of his marriage license a notation by the priest indicates he volunteered the information that his real name was spelled Baczek. My grandmother, on the other hand, came over with Florentyna or Florence Chmielinski then one marriage licensen it was chmielewski remarried a Kossak. By the time I got to a great grandmother I found out she was married three times--just imagine my exasperation and exhaustion! At this point, all I can think of please give me a break relatives. Carol Tamara ----- Original Message ----- From: "jakki szymanowski" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [PBS] Name change "myth" > > Also the US census mutilated some names. Kujalowicz was listed in a > variety of spellings and my grandmother's first name Theodosia was not > even recognizable on some! > > Jacqueline Szymanowski > > 3921 Random Lane > > Sacramento CA 95864 > > [email protected] > > > > > > >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 11:54:59 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [PBS] Name change "myth" >> >> I agree - any person coming from a country that did not have English as >> their language, stood the risk of having their name changed to what it >> sounded like, in English. All agents that handled passengers coming from >> overseas spoke only English, and could not be bothered to wait for a >> translator. I found this to be the case in several names I am >> researching, >> and was told this as well by my grandparents. >> >> Muriel >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gerald >> Cierpilowski >> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:36 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [PBS] Name change "myth" >> >> Maybe the name changes were not on purpose at the immigration >> purposes, but there were changes. For example: >> >> My grandmother and her two sons were shown on three separate Ellis >> Island manifests out of Hamburg. The first two show that they were >> "scratched" for some reason and did not arrive in New York. Each of >> the three manifests had the surname spelled differently; and NONE of >> the spellings was correct. Each of them were spelled the way they >> SOUNDED in English. I have other examples in my family as well. Names >> WERE changed. >> >> Jerry >> Lock Haven, PA >> Detroit MI >> >> >> On Feb 16, 2009, at 10:21 AM, C. Bukoski wrote: >> >> > >> > Hi Gloria, >> > >> > May I ask what your source is for the childrens' names, dates, and >> > places of birth? Do you have actual baptismal certificates? >> > >> > Regarding the changing of family names at immigration, that is a >> > myth. Immigration was pretty big business at the turn of the 20th >> > century. Immigrants travelled with passports which would have their >> > names spelled out (though not in English) and the translators were >> > available at the ports of arrival (and probably departure). If >> > anything, names would have changed (for any variety of reasons) >> > after they settled in North America. >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >