Hi Tina - Thanks so much for your very comprehensive reply! First of all, I did a search on Google for "Lwow Polish Journal" - there were no results. All that we know about it is from the quote in Rutkowska in my original message. A cursory search for "University of Lwow", as far as any history of the early-mid 1800s is concerned, yielded nothing; entries were almost entirely confined to the 20th Century. (I may dig a little deeper - there were several more pages...). My posting was so long already I didn't mention a lot of things that would have helped considerably. This may have saved you a lot of work in my behalf. (So sorry for my oversight and lack of clarity!). I spent a few weeks visiting Krakow, Tarnow, and Tuchow in 2004 - unfortunately, I didn't have a visa for Ukraine so we were unable to pursue any info about the possible earlier origins of the family of my 3rd g.grandfather, Jozef *Tysowski/Tyssowski. With the help of a local researcher/genealogist (Adam Jedryka) we found and photographed several Parafja/Katedra records in the Liber Natorum, Liber Copulatorum, and Liber Mortuorum (Zamiescie-Burek, Zablocie, etc.), so, much of our information, from Poland at least, is already documented. We even found "house numbers" - not sure if these could be associated with street names. *One of the clues from the Liber Copulatorum (Book of Marriages) of 1807 in the Parafja Sw. Jokuba (St. James Parish?) in Tuchow was that the groom's surname was spelled "Tysowski", with one "s" - all later occurrences of the surname in Poland and in the U.S. are spelled with two "s"s. (As I may have forgotten to mention, the one "s" spelling is prevalent in Western Canada (Saskatchewan), probably representing an as yet unconnected branch of the family). I have not attempted to do any archival research about Lwow, nor had I any idea that records from Lwow might already have been microfilmed at LDS - and no, this is certainly not redundant information! The links you kindly provided may prove to be very helpful - I will check them out. The LDS URLs for Tarnow and Tuchow may also be useful for finding further information we may have missed in 2004. The priests, while generally cordial and very helpful in bringing us the dusty tomes from the shelves, did not seem to have a lot of extra time - appointments with them had to be scheduled in advance We of course left them with a small gratuity for their time and effort, which is customary. The Polish archives site may also be helpful, although we don't have any information at all about where, exactly, they may actually be from (the name of the province, parish, or a nearby village?), just that Jozef worked in Lwow around 1805-1820, and his son, Jan, went to the University of Lwow in the early 1830s (after his father's death, which tends to further confirm the suspicion that family origins may date back to Lwow). From the records in Tarnow and Tuchow we can be nearly certain they must have been Catholic. Thank you very much for your kind response and the helpful links! My apologies again if my earlier omissions may have caused any misunderstanding or inconvenience for you. As soon as one of Jan Tyssowski's numerous descendants in the U.S. wins the lottery, we will be booking tickets for Ukraine, post-haste! (Are we entitled to two trips of a lifetime?). Regards, Frank > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 09:32:30 -0800 > From: Tina Ellis <polska.research@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [PBS] TYSSOWSKI/TYSOWSKI > To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <f0f3f15e1001310932s5c89a50du34461450a4792a18@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I'm not quite sure what this Journal is about that you want. Suggestion: > Try http://www.google.com and run a search with quotes ... "Lwow Polish > Journal". See if that brings up what you want. > > I have no idea where you may have searched for old records from Lwow. You > did not mention that, so if this is redundant, please accept my apologies. > The LDS have old records, which they have microfilmed from Lwow. This > list > pretty much covers Lwow: > http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=localitydetails&subject=67925&subject_disp=Poland%2C+Lw%C3%B3w%2C+Lw%C3%B3w+%28Lw%C3%B3w%29&columns=*,0,0 > > They also have records for the Roman Catholic parish in Tuchow covering > the > years you are researching. It's possible they married in Tuchow, if this > was indeed the parish at the time she married. > http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=topicdetails&subject=616430&subject_disp=Poland%2C+Krak%C3%B3w%2C+Tuch%C3%B3w+%28Tarn%C3%B3w%29+%2D+Church+records&columns=*,0,0 > > This is what they have for Tarnow: > http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=localitydetails&subject=67342&subject_disp=Poland%2C+Krak%C3%B3w%2C+Tarn%C3%B3w+%28Tarn%C3%B3w%29&columns=*,0,0 > I take it that you meant the city of Tarnow. You much understand that > Tarnow was the provincial capital of the province of Tarnow and would have > been in the county of Tarnow. If these do not help try their catalog for > other places in Tarnow: > http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=localitysearch&columns=*,0,0 > > There is also the Polish archives site. They have a catalog. > http://baza.archiwa.gov.pl/sezam/pradziad.php?l=en They will do searches > for you, but they do not do searches on words like maybe and possibly. > You > need to be specific, and must state the religion, since records are filed > by > that and their parish. They charge by the hour for searches and have fees > for documents. > > With the LDS you order their microfilm and rent them for a fee. You can > copy all the records you want from the film yourself at a minimal cost. > They are a non-profic organization, so their costs are minimal. > > Hope this helps you. > > Tina Ellis > > > On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Frank Johnson <paco@gbis.com> wrote: > >> List - >> >> My g.g.grandfather was Jan TYSSOWSKI (1811-1857), a political figure in >> the >> short-lived 1846 Revolution of Krakow. He was jailed by the Austrians, >> escaped, and was later recaptured and exiled to the U.S. in 1847. >> >> We have reasons to suspect that the origins of this family may be found >> in >> Ukraine, specifically in Lviv/Lwow. Jan Tyssowski's father, Jozef >> Tyssowski >> (abt. 1779 - abt. 1820), also spelled TYSOWSKI, lived and worked in Lwow >> and >> was apparently a "local official, translator, and editor of the >> gubernatorial mandates published in the Lw?w Polish Journal, who died >> while >> John [Jan] was a mere boy" (Rutkowska 1943). The date of Jozef's death >> is >> estimated to be about 1820, as Jan was born in Tarnow in 1811. Jozef's >> wife >> (Jan's mother) was Pelagia PACIORKOWSKA (1790-1879); her grave is in >> Tarnow >> but her birthplace is not known with certainty (possibly in Tuchow, a >> short >> distance S of Tarnow). Jozef & Pelagia were married in Tuchow in 1807 - >> interesting that their marriage was "blessed by the Bishop from Kielce, >> the >> administrator of the Tarnow Diocese" - unsure of the possible >> significance >> of this. >> >> These are some of the several clues we have to the possible origins of >> the >> Tyssowski/Tysowski family - Lwow seems to have been a frequent and >> repeated >> resort of the Tyssowskis, a place of strong familial ties: "... >> Tyssowski >> [John/Jan] entered the University of Lw?w where he obtained his degree in >> philosophy and studied law for three years" (ibid.., p. 30). It is later >> stated, after spending some time in Vienna where he "received the >> doctorate >> of law in 1835", that "...homesickness drove him back in 1839 to Lw?w" >> (ibid.,. pp. 33-34). >> >> [Sister M. Neomisia Rutkowska, Ph.D., was a scholar who wrote a detailed >> biography, "John Tyssowski", published by the Polish Roman Catholic Union >> of >> America, Chicago, 1943]. >> >> Does anyone have any knowledge of the "Lw?w Polish Journal"? Are there >> perhaps any records of this journal known to exist? Might there be any >> early records of the University of Lw?w? How would I go about finding >> possible birth/death records in Lwow for Jozef Tyssowski/Tysowski? >> Perhaps >> he, or someone in the family, once owned property or paid taxes there... >> >> Has anyone had any success in finding out if this sort of information >> might >> be available in Lviv/Lwow? >> >> Although John/Jan Tyssowski & his wife, Antoinette/Antonina LENSKA >> (1818-1892) produced a large progeny which is fairly well documented in >> America, this is our 'brick wall' which has stymied us for many years. >> >> Any suggestions or help in pursuing this would be very much appreciated! >> >> Thank you in advance, Frank >> >> >>

Hi Frank, I'm just lurking on the sidelines here... I certainly won't begrudge you another trip if the lottery decides to be the way you get there ;-) I cannot remember if I told you of an excellent Polish genealogical researcher who has done work for me: Michal at http://www.polgenresearch.com/en/index.php I'm not sure if he goes to Lwow, but if not Michal may still be able to give you some good advice. Of course it will take you a time to check out Tina's links and your other ideas! Bron. On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 11:30 PM, Frank Johnson <paco@gbis.com> wrote: > Hi Tina - > > Thanks so much for your very comprehensive reply! > > First of all, I did a search on Google for "Lwow Polish Journal" - there > were no results. All that we know about it is from the quote in Rutkowska > in my original message. A cursory search for "University of Lwow", as far > as any history of the early-mid 1800s is concerned, yielded nothing; > entries > were almost entirely confined to the 20th Century. (I may dig a little > deeper - there were several more pages...). > > My posting was so long already I didn't mention a lot of things that would > have helped considerably. This may have saved you a lot of work in my > behalf. (So sorry for my oversight and lack of clarity!). > > I spent a few weeks visiting Krakow, Tarnow, and Tuchow in 2004 - > unfortunately, I didn't have a visa for Ukraine so we were unable to pursue > any info about the possible earlier origins of the family of my 3rd > g.grandfather, Jozef *Tysowski/Tyssowski. With the help of a local > researcher/genealogist (Adam Jedryka) we found and photographed several > Parafja/Katedra records in the Liber Natorum, Liber Copulatorum, and Liber > Mortuorum (Zamiescie-Burek, Zablocie, etc.), so, much of our information, > from Poland at least, is already documented. We even found "house > numbers" - not sure if these could be associated with street names. > > *One of the clues from the Liber Copulatorum (Book of Marriages) of 1807 in > the Parafja Sw. Jokuba (St. James Parish?) in Tuchow was that the groom's > surname was spelled "Tysowski", with one "s" - all later occurrences of the > surname in Poland and in the U.S. are spelled with two "s"s. (As I may > have > forgotten to mention, the one "s" spelling is prevalent in Western Canada > (Saskatchewan), probably representing an as yet unconnected branch of the > family). > > I have not attempted to do any archival research about Lwow, nor had I any > idea that records from Lwow might already have been microfilmed at LDS - > and > no, this is certainly not redundant information! The links you kindly > provided may prove to be very helpful - I will check them out. > > The LDS URLs for Tarnow and Tuchow may also be useful for finding further > information we may have missed in 2004. The priests, while generally > cordial and very helpful in bringing us the dusty tomes from the shelves, > did not seem to have a lot of extra time - appointments with them had to be > scheduled in advance We of course left them with a small gratuity for > their > time and effort, which is customary. > > The Polish archives site may also be helpful, although we don't have any > information at all about where, exactly, they may actually be from (the > name of the province, parish, or a nearby village?), just that Jozef worked > in Lwow around 1805-1820, and his son, Jan, went to the University of Lwow > in the early 1830s (after his father's death, which tends to further > confirm > the suspicion that family origins may date back to Lwow). From the records > in Tarnow and Tuchow we can be nearly certain they must have been Catholic. > > Thank you very much for your kind response and the helpful links! My > apologies again if my earlier omissions may have caused any > misunderstanding > or inconvenience for you. > > As soon as one of Jan Tyssowski's numerous descendants in the U.S. wins the > lottery, we will be booking tickets for Ukraine, post-haste! (Are we > entitled to two trips of a lifetime?). > > Regards, Frank > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 09:32:30 -0800 > > From: Tina Ellis <polska.research@gmail.com> > > Subject: Re: [PBS] TYSSOWSKI/TYSOWSKI > > To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com > > Message-ID: > > <f0f3f15e1001310932s5c89a50du34461450a4792a18@mail.gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > > I'm not quite sure what this Journal is about that you want. Suggestion: > > Try http://www.google.com and run a search with quotes ... "Lwow Polish > > Journal". See if that brings up what you want. > > > > I have no idea where you may have searched for old records from Lwow. > You > > did not mention that, so if this is redundant, please accept my > apologies. > > The LDS have old records, which they have microfilmed from Lwow. This > > list > > pretty much covers Lwow: > > > http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=localitydetails&subject=67925&subject_disp=Poland%2C+Lw%C3%B3w%2C+Lw%C3%B3w+%28Lw%C3%B3w%29&columns=*,0,0 > > > > They also have records for the Roman Catholic parish in Tuchow covering > > the > > years you are researching. It's possible they married in Tuchow, if this > > was indeed the parish at the time she married. > > > http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=topicdetails&subject=616430&subject_disp=Poland%2C+Krak%C3%B3w%2C+Tuch%C3%B3w+%28Tarn%C3%B3w%29+%2D+Church+records&columns=*,0,0 > > > > This is what they have for Tarnow: > > > http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=localitydetails&subject=67342&subject_disp=Poland%2C+Krak%C3%B3w%2C+Tarn%C3%B3w+%28Tarn%C3%B3w%29&columns=*,0,0 > > I take it that you meant the city of Tarnow. You much understand that > > Tarnow was the provincial capital of the province of Tarnow and would > have > > been in the county of Tarnow. If these do not help try their catalog for > > other places in Tarnow: > > > http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=localitysearch&columns=*,0,0 > > > > There is also the Polish archives site. They have a catalog. > > http://baza.archiwa.gov.pl/sezam/pradziad.php?l=en They will do > searches > > for you, but they do not do searches on words like maybe and possibly. > > You > > need to be specific, and must state the religion, since records are filed > > by > > that and their parish. They charge by the hour for searches and have > fees > > for documents. > > > > With the LDS you order their microfilm and rent them for a fee. You can > > copy all the records you want from the film yourself at a minimal cost. > > They are a non-profic organization, so their costs are minimal. > > > > Hope this helps you. > > > > Tina Ellis > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Frank Johnson <paco@gbis.com> wrote: > > > >> List - > >> > >> My g.g.grandfather was Jan TYSSOWSKI (1811-1857), a political figure in > >> the > >> short-lived 1846 Revolution of Krakow. He was jailed by the Austrians, > >> escaped, and was later recaptured and exiled to the U.S. in 1847. > >> > >> We have reasons to suspect that the origins of this family may be found > >> in > >> Ukraine, specifically in Lviv/Lwow. Jan Tyssowski's father, Jozef > >> Tyssowski > >> (abt. 1779 - abt. 1820), also spelled TYSOWSKI, lived and worked in Lwow > >> and > >> was apparently a "local official, translator, and editor of the > >> gubernatorial mandates published in the Lw?w Polish Journal, who died > >> while > >> John [Jan] was a mere boy" (Rutkowska 1943). The date of Jozef's death > >> is > >> estimated to be about 1820, as Jan was born in Tarnow in 1811. Jozef's > >> wife > >> (Jan's mother) was Pelagia PACIORKOWSKA (1790-1879); her grave is in > >> Tarnow > >> but her birthplace is not known with certainty (possibly in Tuchow, a > >> short > >> distance S of Tarnow). Jozef & Pelagia were married in Tuchow in 1807 - > >> interesting that their marriage was "blessed by the Bishop from Kielce, > >> the > >> administrator of the Tarnow Diocese" - unsure of the possible > >> significance > >> of this. > >> > >> These are some of the several clues we have to the possible origins of > >> the > >> Tyssowski/Tysowski family - Lwow seems to have been a frequent and > >> repeated > >> resort of the Tyssowskis, a place of strong familial ties: "... > >> Tyssowski > >> [John/Jan] entered the University of Lw?w where he obtained his degree > in > >> philosophy and studied law for three years" (ibid.., p. 30). It is > later > >> stated, after spending some time in Vienna where he "received the > >> doctorate > >> of law in 1835", that "...homesickness drove him back in 1839 to Lw?w" > >> (ibid.,. pp. 33-34). > >> > >> [Sister M. Neomisia Rutkowska, Ph.D., was a scholar who wrote a detailed > >> biography, "John Tyssowski", published by the Polish Roman Catholic > Union > >> of > >> America, Chicago, 1943]. > >> > >> Does anyone have any knowledge of the "Lw?w Polish Journal"? Are there > >> perhaps any records of this journal known to exist? Might there be any > >> early records of the University of Lw?w? How would I go about finding > >> possible birth/death records in Lwow for Jozef Tyssowski/Tysowski? > >> Perhaps > >> he, or someone in the family, once owned property or paid taxes there... > >> > >> Has anyone had any success in finding out if this sort of information > >> might > >> be available in Lviv/Lwow? > >> > >> Although John/Jan Tyssowski & his wife, Antoinette/Antonina LENSKA > >> (1818-1892) produced a large progeny which is fairly well documented in > >> America, this is our 'brick wall' which has stymied us for many years. > >> > >> Any suggestions or help in pursuing this would be very much appreciated! > >> > >> Thank you in advance, Frank > >> > >> > >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >