Records cannot be found when you say in or near Krakow. You have to be specific about where a person was born. This determines the parish in which they would be baptized. It also determines where civil records would be recorded. Have you received the application they filled out to get their marriage license from the City of Chicago or Cook County? Have you tried to find his ship manifest or other types of US records ... maybe naturalization papers? tina On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 5:56 PM, bruce rapacz <brucerapacz@comcast.net>wrote: > My catholic grandfather Joseph Rapacz was born in or near Krakow, Poland > on > 19 Mar 1878. According to marriage records at St Salomea Parish in Chicago, > USA; his Parents are Martin Rapacz and Regina Volszenga. Woul like vital > information on ancestors..He married my grandmother Victoria Stojewa in > Chicago on 20 Oct 1903. > Grandson Bruce Rapacz > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The LDS has records only from 1825 through 1844. http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=topicdetails&subject=616023&subject_disp=Poland%2C+Krak%C3%B3w%2C+Mszana+Dolna+%28Limanowa%29+%2D+Church+records&columns=*,0,0 The state archives has no records for this parish: http://baza.archiwa.gov.pl/sezam/pradziad.php?l=en The church in Mszana Dolna was established in 1345. Whether the records withstood the ravages of WW II is another story. http://parafie.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pr&pid=5298 Indecations are that it did not. I base that on when the LDS record filming ended ... 1844. Records are sent to the archive 100 years after they are issued. This mean the records from 1825 through 1844 made it to the State archives. In 1945, that area was probably fully engulfed in the war. You can try to write the church to see what they may still have in the way of record books. Tina On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 5:47 PM, bruce rapacz <brucerapacz@comcast.net>wrote: > My catholic grandmother Victoria Stojewa was born in Mszana Dolna, > Malapolskie on 24 Dec 1883. Her mother is Sophia Jendrysuje and her father > is Thomas Stojewa. Her parents names came from Victoria's marriage records > at St. Salome parish in Chicago, USA.She was married on 20 Oct 1903 US > Census indicate she came to the US in 1895, 1900, and 1902. Would like > vital > stats on her ancestors. Bruce Rapacz > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

My catholic grandfather Joseph Rapacz was born in or near Krakow, Poland on 19 Mar 1878. According to marriage records at St Salomea Parish in Chicago, USA; his Parents are Martin Rapacz and Regina Volszenga. Woul like vital information on ancestors..He married my grandmother Victoria Stojewa in Chicago on 20 Oct 1903. Grandson Bruce Rapacz

My catholic grandmother Victoria Stojewa was born in Mszana Dolna, Malapolskie on 24 Dec 1883. Her mother is Sophia Jendrysuje and her father is Thomas Stojewa. Her parents names came from Victoria's marriage records at St. Salome parish in Chicago, USA.She was married on 20 Oct 1903 US Census indicate she came to the US in 1895, 1900, and 1902. Would like vital stats on her ancestors. Bruce Rapacz

Thanks All for your input, here are the answers to your questions, the death certificate only states Poland and they were married in Philly so the Poznan project is no help,and the Philly lic. (civil) only states Prussia, I also wrote to the Catholic church in Philly but they only have a record of names and a date, that's why if I could find one of the brothers maybe I could get more info, I still can't find how he came to the states(what ship) I found my gr-grandma,but they weren't married at the time and it doesn't state what town she was from, that's why I hit a wall. Any ideas, I'm going to check the Wi. web site but I thought I had all their records. Thanks again, Mary ---- Tina Ellis <polska.research@gmail.com> wrote: > East and West Prussia were provinces in Germany. > > It's like saying Pennsylvania, United States. > > On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 8:04 PM, the cohens < > the.cohens.in.california@gmail.com> wrote: > > > There is a separate column in each census that indicates native > > language, and also nationality as a separate question from where born. > > Did you find this? > > > > I am interested in Tina's response to your question as my ggrandfather > > also sometimes said Prussia, sometimes Germany in records between > > 1890-1900. > > > > On 1/16/10, rinny1@new.rr.com <rinny1@new.rr.com> wrote: > > > Yes, there were several, one said German Poland, one said Prussia and > > > another said just Poland, > > > > > >> > > >> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Tina Ellis > > >> <polska.research@gmail.com>wrote: > > >> > > >> > In the census records you found, did they give you a country and their > > >> > ethnic group? This will give you hints on who was ruling their home > > >> > country. Remember Poland was not Poland for ca 1920 years. > > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Does John Perz's death certificate indicate his town of birth or names of his parents? There is a marriage database for Poznan that indicates 120 grooms named Perz in Poznan from many many parishes. Clicking on location names in the database, we are provided with microfilm numbers to order for records. With information from documents, including church records in Angelica, Shawano County, Wisconsin, you may be able to find a lead. John applied for naturalization papers in Shawano County; that application will also be of use for your research. Poznan marriage database: http://bindweed.man.poznan.pl/posen/search.php Mary rinny1@new.rr.com wrote: > Yes, there were several, one said German Poland, one said Prussia and another said just Poland, > ---- Tina Ellis <polska.research@gmail.com> wrote: > >> OOPS ... I meant to say 120 years ... from about 1795 to the end of WW I. >> >> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Tina Ellis <polska.research@gmail.com>wrote: >> >> >>> In the census records you found, did they give you a country and their >>> ethnic group? This will give you hints on who was ruling their home >>> country. Remember Poland was not Poland for ca 1920 years. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 6:41 PM, <rinny1@new.rr.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> I am looking for anyone doing research on the Perz family. this is what >>>> I've found thru research, John Perz came to America in 1883 to 1885. he >>>> lived in Philly ,where he married Michalina Jakubowski in 1887. they had 2 >>>> children in Philly, Albert Joseph or Joseph Albert in 1888 and Mary (Mamie) >>>> in 1889, I then found them in Angelica Wi. in 1890. They had Anton(Tony) >>>> 1891, Harry in 1893,Vernell(RONKA) in 1894, Bernard(Benny)1895 , Agnes in >>>> 1897, Josephine(peggy)1901 and Max in 1900. In the obit on John it states he >>>> had two bothers ,James and Lawrence living in Detroit . The year of the obit >>>> is 1934.I'm looking for ship records on any of the brothers John ,James or >>>> lawrence,or any indication that they lived in or around Detroit. I've hit a >>>> wall and hoping someone can open up an avenue of research. >

Thank you so much for explaining this! I never understood that. Sent by Arlene from my Blackberry PDA ----- Original Message ----- From: polandbordersurnames-bounces@rootsweb.com <polandbordersurnames-bounces@rootsweb.com> To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com <polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sun Jan 17 10:29:34 2010 Subject: Re: [PBS] Perz family In other words, in 1900, John Perz's birth town was in Prussian ruled Poland; in 1910, John's birth town was in German ruled Poland; in 1918, Poland became an independent nation, which the 1920 census reflects by indication John was born in Poland. One reference for the timeline: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Pozna%C5%84 From the 2nd partition of Poland in 1793 until 1806, Poznań was in South Prussia (part of Prussia). From 1806 to 1815, Poznań was part of the Duchy of Warsaw. After Napoleon's defeat, the city once again became part of Prussia, functioning as the capital of the autonomous Grand Duchy of Poznań. After 1830, the Grand Duchy of Poznań became semi-autonomous and by 1846, in the midst of revolutions across the European continent, its autonomy was revoked. In 1871, Poznań, along with the whole of Prussia, became part of the German Empire. After Germany's defeat in World War I and as part of the Treaty of Versailles, the Second Polish Republic was created. The Allied decision was influenced in part by the Great Poland Uprising that lasted from 1918 to 1919. Despite six years of Nazi rule during World War II, Poznań has remained a part of Poland ever since. Mary the cohens wrote: > There is a separate column in each census that indicates native > language, and also nationality as a separate question from where born. > Did you find this? > > I am interested in Tina's response to your question as my ggrandfather > also sometimes said Prussia, sometimes Germany in records between > 1890-1900. > > On 1/16/10, rinny1@new.rr.com <rinny1@new.rr.com> wrote: > >> Yes, there were several, one said German Poland, one said Prussia and >> another said just Poland, >> >> >>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Tina Ellis >>> <polska.research@gmail.com>wrote: >>> >>> >>>> In the census records you found, did they give you a country and their >>>> ethnic group? This will give you hints on who was ruling their home >>>> country. Remember Poland was not Poland for ca 1920 years. >>>> ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In other words, in 1900, John Perz's birth town was in Prussian ruled Poland; in 1910, John's birth town was in German ruled Poland; in 1918, Poland became an independent nation, which the 1920 census reflects by indication John was born in Poland. One reference for the timeline: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Pozna%C5%84 From the 2nd partition of Poland in 1793 until 1806, Poznań was in South Prussia (part of Prussia). From 1806 to 1815, Poznań was part of the Duchy of Warsaw. After Napoleon's defeat, the city once again became part of Prussia, functioning as the capital of the autonomous Grand Duchy of Poznań. After 1830, the Grand Duchy of Poznań became semi-autonomous and by 1846, in the midst of revolutions across the European continent, its autonomy was revoked. In 1871, Poznań, along with the whole of Prussia, became part of the German Empire. After Germany's defeat in World War I and as part of the Treaty of Versailles, the Second Polish Republic was created. The Allied decision was influenced in part by the Great Poland Uprising that lasted from 1918 to 1919. Despite six years of Nazi rule during World War II, Poznań has remained a part of Poland ever since. Mary the cohens wrote: > There is a separate column in each census that indicates native > language, and also nationality as a separate question from where born. > Did you find this? > > I am interested in Tina's response to your question as my ggrandfather > also sometimes said Prussia, sometimes Germany in records between > 1890-1900. > > On 1/16/10, rinny1@new.rr.com <rinny1@new.rr.com> wrote: > >> Yes, there were several, one said German Poland, one said Prussia and >> another said just Poland, >> >> >>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Tina Ellis >>> <polska.research@gmail.com>wrote: >>> >>> >>>> In the census records you found, did they give you a country and their >>>> ethnic group? This will give you hints on who was ruling their home >>>> country. Remember Poland was not Poland for ca 1920 years. >>>>

East and West Prussia were provinces in Germany. It's like saying Pennsylvania, United States. On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 8:04 PM, the cohens < the.cohens.in.california@gmail.com> wrote: > There is a separate column in each census that indicates native > language, and also nationality as a separate question from where born. > Did you find this? > > I am interested in Tina's response to your question as my ggrandfather > also sometimes said Prussia, sometimes Germany in records between > 1890-1900. > > On 1/16/10, rinny1@new.rr.com <rinny1@new.rr.com> wrote: > > Yes, there were several, one said German Poland, one said Prussia and > > another said just Poland, > > > >> > >> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Tina Ellis > >> <polska.research@gmail.com>wrote: > >> > >> > In the census records you found, did they give you a country and their > >> > ethnic group? This will give you hints on who was ruling their home > >> > country. Remember Poland was not Poland for ca 1920 years. > >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The John Perz family was from German-occupied Poland - Posen/Poznan. They spoke Polish. In the 1910 census, it was required to write Germany as country of origin, Polish as language; In 1920, it was required to write Poland as country of origin. In the 1900, 1910 and 1920 census, they are living in Angelica, Shawano County, WI; 1900 says Prus Poland; 1910 says German Polish; 1920 says Polish. There are a few Perz records at the Wisconsin Vital Records pre-1907 site which can be ordered. http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/vitalrecords/ Mary the cohens wrote: > There is a separate column in each census that indicates native > language, and also nationality as a separate question from where born. > Did you find this? > > I am interested in Tina's response to your question as my ggrandfather > also sometimes said Prussia, sometimes Germany in records between > 1890-1900. > > On 1/16/10, rinny1@new.rr.com <rinny1@new.rr.com> wrote: > >> Yes, there were several, one said German Poland, one said Prussia and >> another said just Poland, >> >> >>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Tina Ellis >>> <polska.research@gmail.com>wrote: >>> >>> >>>> In the census records you found, did they give you a country and their >>>> ethnic group? This will give you hints on who was ruling their home >>>> country. Remember Poland was not Poland for ca 1920 years. >

There is a separate column in each census that indicates native language, and also nationality as a separate question from where born. Did you find this? I am interested in Tina's response to your question as my ggrandfather also sometimes said Prussia, sometimes Germany in records between 1890-1900. On 1/16/10, rinny1@new.rr.com <rinny1@new.rr.com> wrote: > Yes, there were several, one said German Poland, one said Prussia and > another said just Poland, > >> >> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Tina Ellis >> <polska.research@gmail.com>wrote: >> >> > In the census records you found, did they give you a country and their >> > ethnic group? This will give you hints on who was ruling their home >> > country. Remember Poland was not Poland for ca 1920 years. >>

Yes, there were several, one said German Poland, one said Prussia and another said just Poland, ---- Tina Ellis <polska.research@gmail.com> wrote: > OOPS ... I meant to say 120 years ... from about 1795 to the end of WW I. > > On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Tina Ellis <polska.research@gmail.com>wrote: > > > In the census records you found, did they give you a country and their > > ethnic group? This will give you hints on who was ruling their home > > country. Remember Poland was not Poland for ca 1920 years. > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 6:41 PM, <rinny1@new.rr.com> wrote: > > > >> I am looking for anyone doing research on the Perz family. this is what > >> I've found thru research, John Perz came to America in 1883 to 1885. he > >> lived in Philly ,where he married Michalina Jakubowski in 1887. they had 2 > >> children in Philly, Albert Joseph or Joseph Albert in 1888 and Mary (Mamie) > >> in 1889, I then found them in Angelica Wi. in 1890. They had Anton(Tony) > >> 1891, Harry in 1893,Vernell(RONKA) in 1894, Bernard(Benny)1895 , Agnes in > >> 1897, Josephine(peggy)1901 and Max in 1900. In the obit on John it states he > >> had two bothers ,James and Lawrence living in Detroit . The year of the obit > >> is 1934.I'm looking for ship records on any of the brothers John ,James or > >> lawrence,or any indication that they lived in or around Detroit. I've hit a > >> wall and hoping someone can open up an avenue of research. thanks mary > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Debbie Greenlee, member of the Poland-Roots mail list just posted this link: http://www.thenews.pl/business/artykul123635_warsaw-airport-to-close-in-september--.html. It's a notification that the *Warsaw Frederic Chopin Airport *will be closed for three weekends in September while the resurface the runways. Travelers beware or should we say be aware?

It's also possible that both of the parents died and the one brother was younger and lived with another relative. Perhaps it was an older sister of one of his parents, who married a Grzymalowski. Recently when helping a person researching for the surname of Borkowski, I learned that the woman's grandfather was not a Borkowski. He was a Burzynski. His father died when he was about two years old. His mother remarried, and when he came into the US, his manifest gave her new married name, and the boy also. My third great grandfather's marriage record actually shows the words "Siejwa alias Sawicki". He had witnesses bearing witness to the fact that he was really a Siejwa. Tina On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 9:02 AM, Ralph Harris <magkitchens@sasktel.net>wrote: > > Hello, > I have been researching the "Grzymalowski" family from the villages of > Byczkowce and Skorodynce near Chortkiv for sometime. > I recently found the marriage record of my GG Grandfather, Martinius > Grzynalowski, son of Casimirus and Anna Banachow on Nov 22, 1840. I was > surprised to see that the record stated his name as "Martinius Bednarzow vel > Grzymalowski". > I also found the birth record of his brother, Josephus, with the father > shown as "son of Casimirus Bednarzow" and Anna Banachow on March 17, 1816. I > appears that in the early 1800's my family name may have been "Bednarzow" > and over time changed to Grzymalowski. The children of Matinius and Josephus > used only the Grzymalowski name. > Is there anyone researching the Bednarzow family in Byczkowce/Skorodynce > area? Would I be correct to assume that there was a name change of my family > around 1800. > Best regards, > Ralph Harris > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

OOPS ... I meant to say 120 years ... from about 1795 to the end of WW I. On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Tina Ellis <polska.research@gmail.com>wrote: > In the census records you found, did they give you a country and their > ethnic group? This will give you hints on who was ruling their home > country. Remember Poland was not Poland for ca 1920 years. > > > On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 6:41 PM, <rinny1@new.rr.com> wrote: > >> I am looking for anyone doing research on the Perz family. this is what >> I've found thru research, John Perz came to America in 1883 to 1885. he >> lived in Philly ,where he married Michalina Jakubowski in 1887. they had 2 >> children in Philly, Albert Joseph or Joseph Albert in 1888 and Mary (Mamie) >> in 1889, I then found them in Angelica Wi. in 1890. They had Anton(Tony) >> 1891, Harry in 1893,Vernell(RONKA) in 1894, Bernard(Benny)1895 , Agnes in >> 1897, Josephine(peggy)1901 and Max in 1900. In the obit on John it states he >> had two bothers ,James and Lawrence living in Detroit . The year of the obit >> is 1934.I'm looking for ship records on any of the brothers John ,James or >> lawrence,or any indication that they lived in or around Detroit. I've hit a >> wall and hoping someone can open up an avenue of research. thanks mary >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >

In the census records you found, did they give you a country and their ethnic group? This will give you hints on who was ruling their home country. Remember Poland was not Poland for ca 1920 years. On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 6:41 PM, <rinny1@new.rr.com> wrote: > I am looking for anyone doing research on the Perz family. this is what > I've found thru research, John Perz came to America in 1883 to 1885. he > lived in Philly ,where he married Michalina Jakubowski in 1887. they had 2 > children in Philly, Albert Joseph or Joseph Albert in 1888 and Mary (Mamie) > in 1889, I then found them in Angelica Wi. in 1890. They had Anton(Tony) > 1891, Harry in 1893,Vernell(RONKA) in 1894, Bernard(Benny)1895 , Agnes in > 1897, Josephine(peggy)1901 and Max in 1900. In the obit on John it states he > had two bothers ,James and Lawrence living in Detroit . The year of the obit > is 1934.I'm looking for ship records on any of the brothers John ,James or > lawrence,or any indication that they lived in or around Detroit. I've hit a > wall and hoping someone can open up an avenue of research. thanks mary > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Roman, et al, Even though 'vel' is a Latin term, it was, and still is, widely used in Polish language in relation to people who were/are known under different last names at some point in their lives. So, Kowalski vel Malinowski, means Kowalski also known as Malinowski. Mind you it could mean that Kowalski used name Malinowski in the past, or it could mean that he is using both names simultaneously, and that he is known under one name or the other depending, for example, on the place or circumstances. Like in the case of people who assumed different last names to escape justice. Or people who went by one surname in one place and, for whatever reason, different one in some other place. Vel also is used for nicknames. Like in, John Smith vel Long John Silver, or Heidi Smith vel Red Riding Hood. ella -----Original Message----- From: polandbordersurnames-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:polandbordersurnames-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Roman Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 7:42 PM To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PBS] Bednarz Barbara, The word "vel", as Ella mentioned, is not Polish. It is a Latin term usually translated as "or", "actually" or "even", but also mistakenly as "alias" in this context. It is not an accepted "modern" term, but rather has been around and accepted for over 2000 years. Keep in mind that the principal language of the clergy and their records was Latin. Additionally, in a strictly translational sense, the Latin phrase that one occasionally runs across, "A vel B", translates loosely to "A or B" but perhaps more strictly to "A actually/correctly B" which suggests that B was the original name and A the adopted new name. In a similar situation, the phrase "A alias B" usually does not mean that A has adopted B as a replacement name. It means that "at a different time" the person named A has used another name B, but still is known as the person A. But then again, I am not an expert in languages. So others may well wish to offer other opinions. Cheers, Roman On 1/14/2010 6:34 PM, Barbara Karwowski wrote: > Ella, Thanks for adding such a thorough explanation. I was searching > for a definition in my Polish-English dictionary today when I > happened upon a few entries under the letter V (much to my surprise). > One of those entries was "vel", definition: also known as. I am > assuming that this has become an accepted modern term. Barbara On Jan > 13, 2010, at 10:23 AM, singmore wrote: > >> It is hard to say definitely without seeing the actual registry >> entry, but it was not uncommon, to add a nickname (vel in Latin) to >> the real name in order to differentiate people of the same first >> and last names living in the same village or parish. >> sage ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Roman, It was my original thought, from my own research, that this was a Latin reference meaning "or". (Please see my previous entry) I was merely surprised to find the term in my Polish dictionary. As well, it is included on a Polish to English translation site. I am wondering why this word would be included in both of those places, with the definition given as "also known as" and the translation as "alias" . I was searching for another word when I happened upon it and thought it curious enough to bring to the attention of this group. Barbara On Jan 14, 2010, at 7:42 PM, Roman wrote: > Barbara, > > The word "vel", as Ella mentioned, is not Polish. It is a Latin term > usually translated as "or", "actually" or "even", but also mistakenly as > "alias" in this context. It is not an accepted "modern" term, but rather > has been around and accepted for over 2000 years. Keep in mind that the > principal language of the clergy and their records was Latin. > > Additionally, in a strictly translational sense, the Latin phrase that > one occasionally runs across, "A vel B", translates loosely to "A or B" > but perhaps more strictly to "A actually/correctly B" which suggests > that B was the original name and A the adopted new name. > > In a similar situation, the phrase "A alias B" usually does not mean > that A has adopted B as a replacement name. It means that "at a > different time" the person named A has used another name B, but still is > known as the person A. > > But then again, I am not an expert in languages. So others may well wish > to offer other opinions. > > Cheers, > > Roman > > On 1/14/2010 6:34 PM, Barbara Karwowski wrote: >> Ella, Thanks for adding such a thorough explanation. I was searching >> for a definition in my Polish-English dictionary today when I >> happened upon a few entries under the letter V (much to my surprise). >> One of those entries was "vel", definition: also known as. I am >> assuming that this has become an accepted modern term. Barbara On Jan >> 13, 2010, at 10:23 AM, singmore wrote: >> >>> It is hard to say definitely without seeing the actual registry >>> entry, but it was not uncommon, to add a nickname (vel in Latin) to >>> the real name in order to differentiate people of the same first >>> and last names living in the same village or parish. >>> > sage > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Most often in the Polish records the word "dicti" occurrs. This is known as the Przydomek meaning that this is a nickname or the name that the person is known as in the village. Some parishes use this term frequently and others you will never see this term. -----Original Message----- From: Roman <romankal@verizon.net> To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2010 7:42 pm Subject: Re: [PBS] Bednarz Barbara, The word "vel", as Ella mentioned, is not Polish. It is a Latin term sually translated as "or", "actually" or "even", but also mistakenly as alias" in this context. It is not an accepted "modern" term, but rather as been around and accepted for over 2000 years. Keep in mind that the rincipal language of the clergy and their records was Latin. Additionally, in a strictly translational sense, the Latin phrase that ne occasionally runs across, "A vel B", translates loosely to "A or B" ut perhaps more strictly to "A actually/correctly B" which suggests hat B was the original name and A the adopted new name. In a similar situation, the phrase "A alias B" usually does not mean hat A has adopted B as a replacement name. It means that "at a ifferent time" the person named A has used another name B, but still is nown as the person A. But then again, I am not an expert in languages. So others may well wish o offer other opinions. Cheers, Roman On 1/14/2010 6:34 PM, Barbara Karwowski wrote: Ella, Thanks for adding such a thorough explanation. I was searching for a definition in my Polish-English dictionary today when I happened upon a few entries under the letter V (much to my surprise). One of those entries was "vel", definition: also known as. I am assuming that this has become an accepted modern term. Barbara On Jan 13, 2010, at 10:23 AM, singmore wrote: > It is hard to say definitely without seeing the actual registry > entry, but it was not uncommon, to add a nickname (vel in Latin) to > the real name in order to differentiate people of the same first > and last names living in the same village or parish. > age ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

Barbara, The word "vel", as Ella mentioned, is not Polish. It is a Latin term usually translated as "or", "actually" or "even", but also mistakenly as "alias" in this context. It is not an accepted "modern" term, but rather has been around and accepted for over 2000 years. Keep in mind that the principal language of the clergy and their records was Latin. Additionally, in a strictly translational sense, the Latin phrase that one occasionally runs across, "A vel B", translates loosely to "A or B" but perhaps more strictly to "A actually/correctly B" which suggests that B was the original name and A the adopted new name. In a similar situation, the phrase "A alias B" usually does not mean that A has adopted B as a replacement name. It means that "at a different time" the person named A has used another name B, but still is known as the person A. But then again, I am not an expert in languages. So others may well wish to offer other opinions. Cheers, Roman On 1/14/2010 6:34 PM, Barbara Karwowski wrote: > Ella, Thanks for adding such a thorough explanation. I was searching > for a definition in my Polish-English dictionary today when I > happened upon a few entries under the letter V (much to my surprise). > One of those entries was "vel", definition: also known as. I am > assuming that this has become an accepted modern term. Barbara On Jan > 13, 2010, at 10:23 AM, singmore wrote: > >> It is hard to say definitely without seeing the actual registry >> entry, but it was not uncommon, to add a nickname (vel in Latin) to >> the real name in order to differentiate people of the same first >> and last names living in the same village or parish. >> sage