You can still get a visa if you don't have an invitation, I have been there 5 times and never had an invitation as I know of no one who would invite me.? I had to apply in person in NY at their office.? I had to explain why I wanted to go.? Then after I was issued a visa, I was phoned several days later by someone at the Washington embassy verifying again, why I wanted to go to Belarus.? I also would be very apprehensive being on the streets in the evening. -----Original Message----- From: James Mnichowicz <jimmnich@yahoo.com> To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com Sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 9:21 pm Subject: Re: [PBS] Advice on Travel to Belarus Please Hi there Rose Four of us traveled to Belarus in 2006 looking for family. You have to be invited to visit the country before you can get a visa to visit the country. I beleive we got ours from the Belarus embassy here in the states before we went. The cost was 60 dollars for the visa. Make sure you have a health insurance policy while you are in that country. We got ours thru the tour company. We crossed the border and they tried to sell us health insurance but luckily we had papers that proved we had the insurance. They were very testy about this. We had a couple from Poland with us so they arranged a van for traveling ; thru a cousin who lives in Belarus. The people we talked to in the villages were very friendly. In the cities I wouldn't walk alone especially at night. The people are very serious in the cities and you never hear any spontainous laughter. They just tend to their business. They told us not to dress or act different to call attention to yourself when we went. We did search for our families and it was an uneventful trip there. James Jack and Rose <thankgod@optonline.net> wrote: Hi Has anyone in the group traveled to Belarus??? I would like to plan a trip there in the future.... Any advice would be helpful Thanks and God bless Rose Zydel Olson ThankGod@optonline.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Thank You James Rose ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Mnichowicz" <jimmnich@yahoo.com> To: <polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 9:21 PM Subject: Re: [PBS] Advice on Travel to Belarus Please > Hi there Rose > > Four of us traveled to Belarus in 2006 looking for family. > > You have to be invited to visit the country before you can get a visa to > visit the country. I beleive we got ours from the Belarus embassy here in > the states before we went. The cost was 60 dollars for the visa. > Make sure you have a health insurance policy while you are in that > country. We got ours thru the tour company. We crossed the border and > they tried to sell us health insurance but luckily we had papers that > proved we had the insurance. They were very testy about this. > We had a couple from Poland with us so they arranged a van for traveling > ; thru a cousin who lives in Belarus. > The people we talked to in the villages were very friendly. In the > cities I wouldn't walk alone especially at night. The people are very > serious in the cities and you never hear any spontainous laughter. They > just tend to their business. They told us not to dress or act different > to call attention to yourself when we went. We did search for our > families and it was an uneventful trip there. > James > > > > > > Jack and Rose <thankgod@optonline.net> wrote: > Hi > > Has anyone in the group traveled to Belarus??? > > I would like to plan a trip there in the future.... > > Any advice would be helpful > > Thanks and God bless > > Rose Zydel Olson > ThankGod@optonline.net > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > --------------------------------- > Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're > surfing. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi there Rose Four of us traveled to Belarus in 2006 looking for family. You have to be invited to visit the country before you can get a visa to visit the country. I beleive we got ours from the Belarus embassy here in the states before we went. The cost was 60 dollars for the visa. Make sure you have a health insurance policy while you are in that country. We got ours thru the tour company. We crossed the border and they tried to sell us health insurance but luckily we had papers that proved we had the insurance. They were very testy about this. We had a couple from Poland with us so they arranged a van for traveling ; thru a cousin who lives in Belarus. The people we talked to in the villages were very friendly. In the cities I wouldn't walk alone especially at night. The people are very serious in the cities and you never hear any spontainous laughter. They just tend to their business. They told us not to dress or act different to call attention to yourself when we went. We did search for our families and it was an uneventful trip there. James Jack and Rose <thankgod@optonline.net> wrote: Hi Has anyone in the group traveled to Belarus??? I would like to plan a trip there in the future.... Any advice would be helpful Thanks and God bless Rose Zydel Olson ThankGod@optonline.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing.

Joanie: This is not related to Poland, but I thought I'd ask anyway. I noticed you have a Kravec in your family tree as do I. Are you related to Helen Ruglis Krawec, born October 3, 1922, by any chance? She is the sister-in-law of a second cousin, Joanna Krawiec Ruglis of the Wilkes Barre area. I have hundreds of Krawiec's but only one or two Krawec's, so I would like to find out more. Tom Kravitz from Baltimore ----- Original Message ----- From: "joanie w" <peekaboobrat@yahoo.com> To: <polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [PBS] POLANDBORDERSURNAMES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 369 > Dear Sonia: > Not knowing if you can drive the 600km distance, or the highways/roads to > Przemysl, I still wish you well. It will be an accomplishment. If you > make it there ,maybe you can solve some of my searches "smiles" > > I found plentiful Jewish Surnames through the various Poland sites, but > would like to know where can I find an index for Catholic Surnames of > Sanok which include: > > Pielnia, "Krosno," Wroblik Szlachecki, "Rymanow," "Przemysl," > Podkarpackie, > > Deszno, Tarnawka, and Sieniawa > > The ones above, I darkened and placed in quotes, are on maps and easily > seen. My ancestors listed below lived in this triangle of Krosno Rymanow > and Przemysl. Maybe you can keep them in mind as you travel. > > The Greek Catholic STRUS BURKO KRAWEC from Wroblik Szlachecki & > > the Roman Catholic BEDNARCZYK > MOSKAL OR MOSKALIK from Pielnia Poland surnames were not seen in Wroblik > Krolewski. I don't know where to go from here. I've written every Archive > I could think of. People told me it will be easy once one has one's > Ancestors Town and Country. > Well, the Other Catholic Churches or addresses were not given to me yet. > > Thank you for any resouces or referrals which may help me to find > information about them. > > Joan Wielgus [Wielgos was from Kielce Poland] > ------._,_.___ > > polandbordersurnames-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:23:08 -0400 > From: "Sonia van Heerden" > Subject: [PBS] Trip by car in Poland > To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > > Hi experts > > I have been advised by my relatives that we will be travelling by car from > Pienzino in the northeast part of Poland to Przemysl in the southeast by > car, and I gather they want to do it in one day. They have told me it is > about 600 km. > > Has anyone travelled that far in one day by car? Do you think it can be > done? > > Sonia > > > > --------------------------------- > Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car > Finder tool. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

To Sonia who wrote Hi experts > > I have been advised by my relatives that we will be travelling by car from > Pienzino in the northeast part of Poland to Przemysl in the southeast by > car, and I gather they want to do it in one day. They have told me it is > about 600 km. > > Has anyone travelled that far in one day by car? Do you think it can be > done? > > Sonia > ************ Sonia, If it is about 600km, then we are talking only about 400miles......True, that is over Polish roads, but Poland does have some fast moving highways/freeways. I think it is possible without a doubt, if it is only that far! Anettka ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Joan, You mentioned searching in Rymanow. What are the surnames? My search has also been in Rymanow. Irene

Sonia, yes! 2007/7/19, Sonia van Heerden <soniavanheerden@hotmail.com>: > > > Hi experts > > I have been advised by my relatives that we will be travelling by car from > Pienzino in the northeast part of Poland to Przemysl in the southeast by > car, and I gather they want to do it in one day. They have told me it is > about 600 km. > > Has anyone travelled that far in one day by car? Do you think it can be > done? > > Sonia > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live Hotmail. Even hotter than before. Get a better look now. > www.newhotmail.ca?icid=WLHMENCA148 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- igatabor@gmail.com

I too went to Auschwitz in 2001 and it was the most moving experience I have ever witnessed in my life so far. To even write this brings goose bumps to my skin and that is not an exaggeration. It was one of the most meaningful parts of my trip to Poland. It was a close second to staying on the farm with my family that I discovered I had in the northeast part of Poland. While I was moved to be at the camps, in some ways I felt it was an intrusion to the spirits that must still surround the area. I, of course was quite humbled by the experience at age 49, but there were young adults there who were laughing and fooling around. While I do not know what it was they were laughing at, it was quite disrespectful none the less. It angered me to see this, but I likened it to the governments ( and the Catholic Church) that must have know these concentration camps existed and yet looked the other way. It seemed like the horror would never end for me on that tour; I cannot imagine ! what th ose souls had to endur. They are all saints in my book, irregardless of the church's officially canonizing them as such. Do not miss this experience... -------------- Original message -------------- From: Mary Johnson <charlie7299@yahoo.com> > I went to Auschwitz in 2001. People told me I should go, well I did, I was > emtionally unstable for the visit. I started crying and could not stop; the > tour guide wanted me to go back to the bus, but I told him I would stand in the > back and see how and what I could. It was an emotionally draining experience. > I'm not so sure on the "happy" part but I believe it was a thing I had to do; > and you cannot image or have any Idea of what these people had to endure. I > prayed for them along the way myself. It overwhelmed me to think that people > actually did this to other poeple and all the children. > > My family and myself are taking another trip to Poland this fall. I am > looking forward to see how things have changed or stayed the same from our last > visit. I haven't been able to locate my "Matuszyk" but I'm still trying. > > Mary > > Jack and Rose wrote: > Hi Margaret > As much as I had learned in school about the Holocaust and horrors of the > concentration camps, NOTHING CAN BE MORE HORRIFYING or SORROWFUL than > visiting in person these places > The room full of human hair being woven into blankets for the Nazi soldiers > made my stomach sick > Rooms full of babies clothing taken from the Jews and Polish people to be > sent to the Nazi soldiers families in Germany, rooms full of shoes, > hairbrushes, toothbrushes confiscated from all who entered the camps, > horrified me. I WAS SICKENED BY ALL, BUT " Happy" that I did go > Everyone kept telling my husband and myself,,, If you travel that far from > the USA and Go to Poland > YOU MUST SEE THE CONCENTRATION CAMPS! > We did not want to go, but are " happy" that we did. > The trip is a long one from Warsaw, but it is a MUST SEE! > > THE WORSE FOR ME WAS SEEING THE WELCOME SIGN " WORK WILL MAKE YOU FREE" > These poor victims did not have a clue that HARD WORK would not save their > lives at all..... > > I believe in my heart that if at all possible ( and I know its not) all > people should visit a concentration camp to see for themselves the REALITY > and HORROR of it all.... Its easier to believe in evil when you see it WITH > ONES OWN EYES > > God bless all of the victims of these evil acts > > I prayed and prayed for all of the souls each and every room that I entered > and cried tears of deep sorrow for them all > > Love and God bless you all > Rose Zydel Olson > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marlo50" > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 8:21 AM > Subject: Re: [PBS] My trip to Poland > > > > Rose, I really enjoyed your message about your trip to Poland. I wondered > > what your reaction was when you went to Auschwitz? I am old enough to > > remember the end of WW2 and the liberation of those camps and I still have > > that terrible feeling of horror how any so called human could treat > > another > > human in that manner. Margaret > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jack and Rose" > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 9:08 PM > > Subject: [PBS] My trip to Poland > > > > > >> Hi Noreen > >> Thanks for asking > >> IT WAS BETTER THAN MY HUSBAND OR I EVER ANTICIPATED.... > >> > >> LOT air is great, I would highly recommend it to anyone thinking of > >> traveling to Poland or Eastern Europe > >> > >> We stayed in the Warsawa Westin Hotel in Warsaw > >> EXCELLENT, expensive, but well worth it > >> We had a banquet there for 20 family members that I have never met before > >> What a family Re-union or should I say UNION.... > >> > >> Family came from Belarus and all parts of Poland to meet my husband and > >> I. > >> > >> Saw Warsawa, Krakow, Concentration Camps in Auschwitz. etc....Bialystok, > >> Poltusk, oh so many towns ( mostly Center of Poland, Southern Sections > >> and > >> some Northern Sections of the country) > >> And the FARMLANDS ARE AMAZING.... > >> > >> I thought Lancaster County PA was beautiful, but nothing can compare to > >> the > >> rye, wheat farms in Poland > >> > >> Hugs and God bless you all > >> Rose Zydel Olson > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: > >> To: > > >> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 6:57 PM > >> Subject: Re: [PBS] Enough Golobki Already!!! > >> > >> > >>> Hi Rose, > >>> Welcome back and how was the trip? > >>> Noreen > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new > >>> AOL > >>> at > >>> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > >> -- > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.8/906 - Release Date: 7/17/2007 > >> 6:30 PM > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > --------------------------------- > Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, > photos & more. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sonia, It is 372 miles and can be done in one day. May take all day but can be done. It will be a long day. Jim. On Jul 19, 2007, at 9:23 PM, Sonia van Heerden wrote: > > Hi experts > > I have been advised by my relatives that we will be travelling by > car from > Pienzino in the northeast part of Poland to Przemysl in the > southeast by > car, and I gather they want to do it in one day. They have told me > it is > about 600 km. > > Has anyone travelled that far in one day by car? Do you think it > can be > done? > > Sonia > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live Hotmail. Even hotter than before. Get a better look now. > www.newhotmail.ca?icid=WLHMENCA148 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message Kuba Przedzienkowski jimpres1@mac.com kuba@przedzienkowski.com www.przedzienkowski.com

what is this????? ----- Original Message ----- From: "joanie w" <peekaboobrat@yahoo.com> To: <polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com> Cc: "Sonia van Heerden" <soniavanheerden@hotmail.com> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 8:52 PM Subject: [PBS] Sorry if I sent this twicePOLANDBORDERSURNAMES Digest, Vol 2,Issue 369 > ------._,_.___ > > polandbordersurnames-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:23:08 -0400 > From: "Sonia van Heerden" > Subject: [PBS] Trip by car in Poland > To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > > Hi experts > > I have been advised by my relatives that we will be travelling by car from > Pienzino in the northeast part of Poland to Przemysl in the southeast by > car, and I gather they want to do it in one day. They have told me it is > about 600 km. > > Has anyone travelled that far in one day by car? Do you think it can be > done? > > Sonia > > > > --------------------------------- > Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! > Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! > Games. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Rose, I had a relative who was picked up in Poland and taken to Stutthof on the Baltic sea. My first trip to Poland in 1978 he and I visited the camp where he was interred. He told me what happened in the camp and the daily routine. He cried as he told me about his time there. How they slept 7 to a bunk. How he was third in line at the gas chamber but the Germans needed workers for the road and he was spared. He was liberated and lived until 2004. And he had his number on his arm. He wrote about his life there. He was not Jewish but was a Catholic. Jim On Jul 19, 2007, at 9:15 PM, Jack and Rose wrote: > Hi Mary > I did not mean HAPPY as in JOY,, I meant "happy" glad that we did > get ENOUGH > COURAGE TO REALLY GO AND SEE THINGS FOR OURSELVES. > I know what you mean,,,,,, I was in such shock and horror the > entire time, > but NEEDED TO SEE THIS, I think everyone in the WORLD needs to see > this > My neighbors have their " tatoos" from Auswitz on their forearms > and they > have told us about watching their PARENTS DIE IN FRONT OF THEM > sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo we have learned first hand from > Survivors and > victims of this HORROR AND EVIL > > I did not want you to get the wrong impression, we were not HAPPY > to be > there > GRATEFUL TO GOD, really, for the courage and strength that he gave > us both > to GO TO SEE FOR OURSELVES, we were both nervous beforehand also > > Rose > Kuba Przedzienkowski jimpres1@mac.com kuba@przedzienkowski.com www.przedzienkowski.com

I must say, we have taken on a much more important subject matter than " stuffed-Cabbages" now Thank you all Rose Zydel Olson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Cierpilowski" <gcierpil@comcast.net> To: <polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [PBS] Camps > Friends, > > I won't belabor the discussion on concentration/extermination camps > beyond this note unless someone writes me personally. However there > are many other considerations in addition to the two most well-known. > Each of these had its own personality to accompany the atrocities. I > have visited some of them and have spent time with people who survived > them. > > I call attention to Majdanek in Lublin, as well as the city of Lublin > itself including its castle where executions and tortures took place. > Any internet search engine will give you more than you want to know > about Majdanek or it city. Michner's "Poland", though a novel, has > much information that give a vivid picture of what took place at that > camp. > > Though not part of the geography of Poland it self, the deportations to > Siberia are events that many if not most people do not know about. 1.7 > million Polish citizens were taken from their homes along eastern > Poland, deported to Siberia and similar regions to do slave labor in > the camps there. My wife's aunt (89 yrs) is a survivor of this > "Forgotten Odyssey" and my wife has compiled and written a first hand > account (in Polish and English) of her 6 years without a country -- and > finally being found in Africa through the efforts of the American Red > Cross. A similar, true story is the young people's book "The Endless > Steppe" by Esther Hautzig. It is the journey of a Lithuanian teen as > she and her family were take to the camps and eventually returned to > Poland after the war. It is a fine read for all ages. > > Two web sites that are directly related to this later, tragic facet of > the story of Poles during and after WW2 are listed below. > > Respectfully, > Gerald Cierpilowski > > http://www.kresy-siberia.org/ > > "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish > citizens deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World > War Two" > > http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/ > > "This site is connected to 'A Forgotten Odyssey', a recent documentary > film by Jagna Wright and Aneta Naszynska. It deals with the forgotten > tragedy of 1.7 million Polish citizens of various faiths and > ethnicities (Polish, Ukrainian, Belorussian, Catholic, Orthodox, > Jewish) deported from eastern Poland (Kresy) in 1940-42 to special > labour camps in Siberia, Kazakhstan and Soviet Asia. Some 120,000 of > these escaped through Persia in 1942 as soldiers of Anders Army and > their families - and eventually made their way to the West because > their pre-war homeland was consigned by the Allies to remain under the > hated Soviet regime." > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

It is all so horrifying and must never happen again Evil must be stopped at all cost, if possible! God bless and thanks for all of the information Rose Zydel Olson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roman" <romanka@comcast.net> To: <polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [PBS] Camps Sandi, In a purely technical sense, your characterization of a "vast majority" below is off the mark when the numbers you cite claim that just a bit more than 50% of the victims were Jews. We should be mindful that the victims of Nazi extermination included a large number of "Catholic Poles" and so-called "political prisoners". The extermination campaign was focused on both Poles and Jews. The 9-11 million victims represented almost 1/3rd of the entire population of pre-war Poland. Of these 36 million Poles only 3.3 million were Jews. The 6 million you site consists of about 3 million Jews and 3 million Catholic Poles. The presentation (http://www.warsawuprising.com/paper/wrobel1.htm) by professor Piotr Wróbel makes for compelling reading. Roman Sandi Watters wrote: > Hello everyone! > > > The vast majority of victims were Jewish. We can never forget that. > Nearly > the entire Jewish population of Poland was exterminated as part of > Hitler's > "Final Solution." No one would ever deny that other groups were targeted > and persecuted. Wikipedia, in its section on "The Holocaust," lists > "Roma, > Soviet POWs, disabled people, gay men, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholic > Poles, > and political prisoners." But we must remember that of the estimated 9-11 > million that suffered and died in the death camps, 6 million were Jews, > over > 3 million at Auschwitz alone. > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Friends, I won't belabor the discussion on concentration/extermination camps beyond this note unless someone writes me personally. However there are many other considerations in addition to the two most well-known. Each of these had its own personality to accompany the atrocities. I have visited some of them and have spent time with people who survived them. I call attention to Majdanek in Lublin, as well as the city of Lublin itself including its castle where executions and tortures took place. Any internet search engine will give you more than you want to know about Majdanek or it city. Michner's "Poland", though a novel, has much information that give a vivid picture of what took place at that camp. Though not part of the geography of Poland it self, the deportations to Siberia are events that many if not most people do not know about. 1.7 million Polish citizens were taken from their homes along eastern Poland, deported to Siberia and similar regions to do slave labor in the camps there. My wife's aunt (89 yrs) is a survivor of this "Forgotten Odyssey" and my wife has compiled and written a first hand account (in Polish and English) of her 6 years without a country -- and finally being found in Africa through the efforts of the American Red Cross. A similar, true story is the young people's book "The Endless Steppe" by Esther Hautzig. It is the journey of a Lithuanian teen as she and her family were take to the camps and eventually returned to Poland after the war. It is a fine read for all ages. Two web sites that are directly related to this later, tragic facet of the story of Poles during and after WW2 are listed below. Respectfully, Gerald Cierpilowski http://www.kresy-siberia.org/ "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two" http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/ "This site is connected to 'A Forgotten Odyssey', a recent documentary film by Jagna Wright and Aneta Naszynska. It deals with the forgotten tragedy of 1.7 million Polish citizens of various faiths and ethnicities (Polish, Ukrainian, Belorussian, Catholic, Orthodox, Jewish) deported from eastern Poland (Kresy) in 1940-42 to special labour camps in Siberia, Kazakhstan and Soviet Asia. Some 120,000 of these escaped through Persia in 1942 as soldiers of Anders Army and their families - and eventually made their way to the West because their pre-war homeland was consigned by the Allies to remain under the hated Soviet regime."

Sandy Thanks for sharing all of this information with us all God bless you Rose Zydel Olson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandi Watters" <dharmadame@gmail.com> To: <polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [PBS] Camps > Hello everyone! > > When my daughter and I were in Poland a few years ago, I wanted very much > to > bear witness by going to Auschwitz. I am an amateur scholar of the > Holocaust, and I regarded it as part of a pilgrimage I felt obligated to > take. However, on the morning of the planned excursion, I realized I did > not have the courage to do it. Having read so many of the histories and > journals and diaries and literature that came out of the Holocaust, I knew > that I would most likely collapse when in the presence of what must surely > be an immense pervasive evil. > > The vast majority of victims were Jewish. We can never forget that. > Nearly > the entire Jewish population of Poland was exterminated as part of > Hitler's > "Final Solution." No one would ever deny that other groups were targeted > and persecuted. Wikipedia, in its section on "The Holocaust," lists > "Roma, > Soviet POWs, disabled people, gay men, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholic > Poles, > and political prisoners." But we must remember that of the estimated 9-11 > million that suffered and died in the death camps, 6 million were Jews, > over > 3 million at Auschwitz alone. > > I mention this because as a person of 100% Polish ancestry, I am very > interested in the history of the Polish people. when I was 12 (I'm now > 58) > I read "The Diary of Anne Frank" and "The Rise and Fall of the Third > Reich" > and those two books spurred me on to read and research more and more into > the Holocaust. I began research into my Polish roots primarily to be sure > that my ancestors, those that stayed in Poland after my great-grandparents > and grandparents left and lived in Poland during the 30s and 40s, hadn't > fallen into one of two categories: (1) Those who, because of religion > (Catholic) or politics (judging from my grandparents, liberal and > anti-totalitarian), were persecuted and possibly killed for those reasons, > and (2) Those who, because of religion (Catholic AND anti-Semitic) or > politics (Nazi sympathizers or bystanders), aided in persecuting the Jews > and any of the other groups. If I found ancestors or relations in the > first > category, I wanted to honor them for their sacrifice. And if I found > ancestors or relations in the second category, I wanted to be able somehow > to (for lack of a better word) atone for them. > > My research has, as of yet, turned up nothing in either category, other > than > someone with my maternal grandfather's name (it couldn't be him) listed on > Yad Vashem's list of the righteous. (There are 6,004 entries for Poland, > which is the highest number for any nation. And, considering that Poland > had the most severe penalty - death to everyone in the household - for > harboring Jews, that is remarkable. The Netherlands is next with 4,767, > followed by France and the Ukraine.) At the website "Polish Righteous," > there is a wonderful poem and an alphabetical list of all of the (thus > far) > recognized Poles who put their lives on the line, and for 704, lost them, > to > aid Jews. The link is: http://www.savingjews.org/ > > Sorry to go on so long on what could be considered entirely off topic. > However, this subject is what initially brought me to this site and > genealogical research. For anyone interested in that time period, Norman > Davies book, "Rising '44: The Battle for Warsaw," makes for compelling > reading, as does John Hersey's fictionalized account, "The Wall." And, if > anyone is interested in the topic and would like more suggested reading, > please feel free to contact me off-list. > > Sandra Watters (nee Slago aka Szlaga) > > On 7/19/07, Jim Presenkowski <jimpres1@mac.com> wrote: >> >> Rose, >> >> I had a relative who was picked up in Poland and taken to Stutthof on >> the >> Baltic sea. My first trip to Poland in 1978 he and I visited the >> camp where >> he was interred. He told me what happened in the camp and the daily >> routine. >> He cried as he told me about his time there. How they slept 7 to a >> bunk. How >> he was third in line at the gas chamber but the Germans needed >> workers for >> the road and he was spared. He was liberated and lived until 2004. >> And he >> had his number on his arm. He wrote about his life there. >> He was not Jewish but was a Catholic. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> On Jul 19, 2007, at 9:15 PM, Jack and Rose wrote: >> >> > Hi Mary >> > I did not mean HAPPY as in JOY,, I meant "happy" glad that we did >> > get ENOUGH >> > COURAGE TO REALLY GO AND SEE THINGS FOR OURSELVES. >> > I know what you mean,,,,,, I was in such shock and horror the >> > entire time, >> > but NEEDED TO SEE THIS, I think everyone in the WORLD needs to see >> > this >> > My neighbors have their " tatoos" from Auswitz on their forearms >> > and they >> > have told us about watching their PARENTS DIE IN FRONT OF THEM >> > sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo we have learned first hand from >> > Survivors and >> > victims of this HORROR AND EVIL >> > >> > I did not want you to get the wrong impression, we were not HAPPY >> > to be >> > there >> > GRATEFUL TO GOD, really, for the courage and strength that he gave >> > us both >> > to GO TO SEE FOR OURSELVES, we were both nervous beforehand also >> > >> > Rose >> > >> >> Kuba Przedzienkowski >> jimpres1@mac.com >> kuba@przedzienkowski.com >> www.przedzienkowski.com >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sandi, In a purely technical sense, your characterization of a "vast majority" below is off the mark when the numbers you cite claim that just a bit more than 50% of the victims were Jews. We should be mindful that the victims of Nazi extermination included a large number of "Catholic Poles" and so-called "political prisoners". The extermination campaign was focused on both Poles and Jews. The 9-11 million victims represented almost 1/3rd of the entire population of pre-war Poland. Of these 36 million Poles only 3.3 million were Jews. The 6 million you site consists of about 3 million Jews and 3 million Catholic Poles. The presentation (http://www.warsawuprising.com/paper/wrobel1.htm) by professor Piotr Wróbel makes for compelling reading. Roman Sandi Watters wrote: > Hello everyone! > > > The vast majority of victims were Jewish. We can never forget that. Nearly > the entire Jewish population of Poland was exterminated as part of Hitler's > "Final Solution." No one would ever deny that other groups were targeted > and persecuted. Wikipedia, in its section on "The Holocaust," lists "Roma, > Soviet POWs, disabled people, gay men, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholic Poles, > and political prisoners." But we must remember that of the estimated 9-11 > million that suffered and died in the death camps, 6 million were Jews, over > 3 million at Auschwitz alone. >

I traveled that far by car and yes it is possible Hang onnnnnnnnnnnnnnn, its going to be a beautiful and " quick" ride Enjoy and beautiful countryside that God has blessed Poland with Hugs and God's blessings Rose ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sonia van Heerden" <soniavanheerden@hotmail.com> To: <polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 3:23 PM Subject: [PBS] Trip by car in Poland > > Hi experts > > I have been advised by my relatives that we will be travelling by car from > Pienzino in the northeast part of Poland to Przemysl in the southeast by > car, and I gather they want to do it in one day. They have told me it is > about 600 km. > > Has anyone travelled that far in one day by car? Do you think it can be > done? > > Sonia > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live Hotmail. Even hotter than before. Get a better look now. > www.newhotmail.ca?icid=WLHMENCA148 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

To all my fellow listers...Regarding the camps: I don't think it is necessary to define how many or if they were Jews, Poles gays, etc. They were all people of this planet whose lives were taken away indiscriminately, tearing children from their mothers and elders from their children, does it really matter what religion or country they were from. It continues today and that is what we need to be concerned with. How are we allowing this genocide to continue after all of that. Get real people. These are lives that were taken from us, that many of us never had the joy of meeting. Our grandparent, aunts etc. Can we grow up and not talk of who again. It is what happened that is unforgettable and should be remembered and discussed. We all have our personal stories of the pain, we just have to insure that it doesn't continue. I think we need to end this polarizing discussion. Respectfully and with understanding, Leah On Jul 19, 2007, at 6:14 PM, polandbordersurnames- request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > When replying to a letter, which is in the digest, please delete > the other letters out of your message. Please, also, change the > subject, so the person to whom you are replying understands that > your reply is for him/her. > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Camps (Jack and Rose) > 2. Re: Camps (Jack and Rose) > 3. Re: POLANDBORDERSURNAMES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 369 (joanie w) > 4. Re: POLANDBORDERSURNAMES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 369 (joanie w) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 20:08:08 -0400 > From: Jack and Rose <thankgod@optonline.net> > Subject: Re: [PBS] Camps > To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <001201c7ca62$0d6ecf00$6500a8c0@ROSE> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; > reply-type=original > > It is all so horrifying and must never happen again > Evil must be stopped at all cost, if possible! > God bless and thanks for all of the information > Rose Zydel Olson > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roman" <romanka@comcast.net> > To: <polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 7:21 PM > Subject: Re: [PBS] Camps > > > Sandi, > > In a purely technical sense, your characterization of a "vast > majority" > below is off the mark when the numbers you cite claim that just a bit > more than 50% of the victims were Jews. We should be mindful that the > victims of Nazi extermination included a large number of "Catholic > Poles" and so-called "political prisoners". > > The extermination campaign was focused on both Poles and Jews. The > 9-11 > million victims represented almost 1/3rd of the entire population of > pre-war Poland. Of these 36 million Poles only 3.3 million were Jews. > The 6 million you site consists of about 3 million Jews and 3 million > Catholic Poles. > > The presentation (http://www.warsawuprising.com/paper/wrobel1.htm) by > professor Piotr Wr?bel makes for compelling reading. > > Roman > > Sandi Watters wrote: >> Hello everyone! >> >> >> The vast majority of victims were Jewish. We can never forget that. >> Nearly >> the entire Jewish population of Poland was exterminated as part of >> Hitler's >> "Final Solution." No one would ever deny that other groups were >> targeted >> and persecuted. Wikipedia, in its section on "The Holocaust," lists >> "Roma, >> Soviet POWs, disabled people, gay men, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholic >> Poles, >> and political prisoners." But we must remember that of the >> estimated 9-11 >> million that suffered and died in the death camps, 6 million were >> Jews, >> over >> 3 million at Auschwitz alone. >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 20:09:39 -0400 > From: Jack and Rose <thankgod@optonline.net> > Subject: Re: [PBS] Camps > To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <002a01c7ca62$441151e0$6500a8c0@ROSE> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; > reply-type=original > > I must say, we have taken on a much more important subject matter > than " > stuffed-Cabbages" now > Thank you all > Rose Zydel Olson > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gerald Cierpilowski" <gcierpil@comcast.net> > To: <polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 8:00 PM > Subject: Re: [PBS] Camps > > >> Friends, >> >> I won't belabor the discussion on concentration/extermination camps >> beyond this note unless someone writes me personally. However there >> are many other considerations in addition to the two most well-known. >> Each of these had its own personality to accompany the atrocities. I >> have visited some of them and have spent time with people who >> survived >> them. >> >> I call attention to Majdanek in Lublin, as well as the city of Lublin >> itself including its castle where executions and tortures took place. >> Any internet search engine will give you more than you want to know >> about Majdanek or it city. Michner's "Poland", though a novel, has >> much information that give a vivid picture of what took place at that >> camp. >> >> Though not part of the geography of Poland it self, the >> deportations to >> Siberia are events that many if not most people do not know about. >> 1.7 >> million Polish citizens were taken from their homes along eastern >> Poland, deported to Siberia and similar regions to do slave labor in >> the camps there. My wife's aunt (89 yrs) is a survivor of this >> "Forgotten Odyssey" and my wife has compiled and written a first hand >> account (in Polish and English) of her 6 years without a country >> -- and >> finally being found in Africa through the efforts of the American Red >> Cross. A similar, true story is the young people's book "The Endless >> Steppe" by Esther Hautzig. It is the journey of a Lithuanian teen as >> she and her family were take to the camps and eventually returned to >> Poland after the war. It is a fine read for all ages. >> >> Two web sites that are directly related to this later, tragic >> facet of >> the story of Poles during and after WW2 are listed below. >> >> Respectfully, >> Gerald Cierpilowski >> >> http://www.kresy-siberia.org/ >> >> "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish >> citizens deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during >> World >> War Two" >> >> http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/ >> >> "This site is connected to 'A Forgotten Odyssey', a recent >> documentary >> film by Jagna Wright and Aneta Naszynska. It deals with the forgotten >> tragedy of 1.7 million Polish citizens of various faiths and >> ethnicities (Polish, Ukrainian, Belorussian, Catholic, Orthodox, >> Jewish) deported from eastern Poland (Kresy) in 1940-42 to special >> labour camps in Siberia, Kazakhstan and Soviet Asia. Some 120,000 of >> these escaped through Persia in 1942 as soldiers of Anders Army and >> their families - and eventually made their way to the West because >> their pre-war homeland was consigned by the Allies to remain under >> the >> hated Soviet regime." >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:04:31 -0700 (PDT) > From: joanie w <peekaboobrat@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [PBS] POLANDBORDERSURNAMES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 369 > To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <830864.10149.qm@web57608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Dear Sonia: > Not knowing if you can drive the 600km distance, or the highways/ > roads to Przemysl, I still wish you well. It will be an > accomplishment. If you make it there ,maybe you can solve some of > my searches "smiles" > > I found plentiful Jewish Surnames through the various Poland > sites, but would like to know where can I find an index for > Catholic Surnames of Sanok which include: > > Pielnia, "Krosno," Wroblik Szlachecki, "Rymanow," "Przemysl," > Podkarpackie, > > Deszno, Tarnawka, and Sieniawa > > The ones above, I darkened and placed in quotes, are on maps and > easily seen. My ancestors listed below lived in this triangle of > Krosno Rymanow and Przemysl. Maybe you can keep them in mind as > you travel. > > The Greek Catholic STRUS BURKO KRAWEC from Wroblik Szlachecki & > > the Roman Catholic BEDNARCZYK > MOSKAL OR MOSKALIK from Pielnia Poland surnames were not seen in > Wroblik Krolewski. I don't know where to go from here. I've > written every Archive I could think of. People told me it will be > easy once one has one's Ancestors Town and Country. > Well, the Other Catholic Churches or addresses were not given to > me yet. > > Thank you for any resouces or referrals which may help me to find > information about them. > > Joan Wielgus [Wielgos was from Kielce Poland] > ------._,_.___ > > polandbordersurnames-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:23:08 -0400 > From: "Sonia van Heerden" > Subject: [PBS] Trip by car in Poland > To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > > Hi experts > > I have been advised by my relatives that we will be travelling by > car from > Pienzino in the northeast part of Poland to Przemysl in the > southeast by > car, and I gather they want to do it in one day. They have told me > it is > about 600 km. > > Has anyone travelled that far in one day by car? Do you think it > can be > done? > > Sonia > > > > --------------------------------- > Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos > new Car Finder tool. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:13:49 -0700 (PDT) > From: joanie w <peekaboobrat@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [PBS] POLANDBORDERSURNAMES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 369 > To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com > Cc: Sonia van Heerden <soniavanheerden@hotmail.com> > Message-ID: <145473.92115.qm@web57601.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > ------._,_.___ > > polandbordersurnames-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:23:08 -0400 > From: "Sonia van Heerden" > Subject: [PBS] Trip by car in Poland > To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > > Hi experts > > I have been advised by my relatives that we will be travelling by > car from > Pienzino in the northeast part of Poland to Przemysl in the > southeast by > car, and I gather they want to do it in one day. They have told me > it is > about 600 km. > > Has anyone travelled that far in one day by car? Do you think it > can be > done? > > Sonia > > > > --------------------------------- > Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see > what's on, when. > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the POLANDBORDERSURNAMES list administrator, send an > email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the POLANDBORDERSURNAMES mailing list, send an > email to POLANDBORDERSURNAMES@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of POLANDBORDERSURNAMES Digest, Vol 2, Issue 372 > ****************************************************

Dear Friends, now you can see the tomb of Pope John Paul II with a webcam in the Grottoes of St. Peter's Basilica, thanks to a new website of the Vatican City State today opened at <http://www.vaticanstate.va/EN/homepage.htm>. Ciao! Guido Thought I would pass this along. Jim Kuba Przedzienkowski jimpres1@mac.com kuba@przedzienkowski.com www.przedzienkowski.com

------._,_.___ polandbordersurnames-request@rootsweb.com wrote: Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:23:08 -0400 From: "Sonia van Heerden" Subject: [PBS] Trip by car in Poland To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com Message-ID: Hi experts I have been advised by my relatives that we will be travelling by car from Pienzino in the northeast part of Poland to Przemysl in the southeast by car, and I gather they want to do it in one day. They have told me it is about 600 km. Has anyone travelled that far in one day by car? Do you think it can be done? Sonia --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.