Hi In my "Baby Book" there is a listing of my ggmother with the name Gladys Sawicki. Is there a Polish form of Gladys? Barbara Sosnowski bsosnowski@falmouth.k12.ma.us

Thank you for the information and your help. Take care Adam "polska.research@gmail.com" <polska.research@gmail.com> wrote: This site has the most common names beginning with a G. I don't see anything like Gladys. http://www.skarbczyk.com/index.php?mid=l&l=g Tina Ellis From: ADAM UMPEROVITCH On Behalf Of polandbordersurnames-bounces@rootsweb.com Reply To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com To: Polish roots web Subject: [PBS] Grashenisher, Lithuania Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 14:19:14 -0700 (PDT) I've tried finding a town from some old church records from 1905, it was Grashenisher, Lithuania at: http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp But I could not even come anywhere near that name, has anyone ever heard of it or have any suggestion's. Thank you Adam -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web LIVE – Free email based on Microsoft® Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more!

Thanks again Fred, Tina asked about given names. The 1891 census in Liverpool showed his name as William Vauchglanus, his wife Margaret and children Gertrude, Joseph and Margaret. I took it that he would have taken an English first name and that William was not his original name but I don't know. I suppose given his childrens first names that they would be catholics. Regards John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tina Ellis" <polska.research@gmail.com> To: <polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [PBS] VAUCHGLANUS or VOUCHYLANUS > Fred seems to think it would be unusual for it to be a Jewish surname. > > What was his given name? Was it a Christian one or a Jewish one? There > are > no guarantees, but sometimes that's an easier way to tell. > > Tina > > > On 10/8/07, John Windle <johnwindle@btinternet.com> wrote: >> >> Thanks to Tina and Fred, >> You have helped make sense of this name. I am in my early stages of this >> search and don't have much info to go on. I read that back in 1882, a lot >> of >> Russian/Polish refugees passed through Liverpool on there way to Canada >> and >> America and that some of them stayed and married here. If I assume the >> surname was VAICELIUNAS, is this likely to be a Jewish name and I should >> concentrate my search of the Jewish community areas of that time. >> >> Regards >> John >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tina Ellis" <polska.research@gmail.com> >> To: <polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 5:39 PM >> Subject: Re: [PBS] VAUCHGLANUS or VOUCHYLANUS >> >> >> > Thank you Fred. I did not think to search for a unas >> ending. VAICELIUNAS >> > !!! There are listings in the Lithuanian telephone directory. Now the >> > researcher has at least that much. You are a jewel. I checked Polish >> > anusz >> > and had not luck. No matter what I tried I could find anything >> > similar. >> > Maybe he will find records, which will give him a place name to search. >> > >> > This is the Lithuanian online telephone directory, which I used when >> > trying >> > to help. http://telefonai.zebra.lt/index.php?language=english >> > >> > Tina >> > >> > >> > On 10/7/07, Fred Hoffman <wmfhoffman@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> John Windle <johnwindle@btinternet.com> asked: >> >> >> >> > Has anyone heard of a Russian or maybe Polish >> >> > surname, >> >> > VAUCHGLANUS or VOUCHYLANUS. I am searching >> >> > for info on this family who moved from Russia to >> >> > Liverpool >> >> > around 1880. In some records the name was >> >> > shortened to Vouch. >> >> >> >> Neither of those names looks or sounds remotely >> >> Polish or Russian. My best guess would be >> >> Lithuanian, because Lithuanian surnames often end >> >> in -ANIS, -ONYS, -ANUS, etc. And as others have >> >> remarked, Lithuania was part of the Russian Empire >> >> from roughly 1772 to the end of World War I. So a >> >> Lithuanian would be categorized as a Russian, >> >> officially speaking. (Historically Lithuania and >> >> Poland were long joined as a single nation; and >> >> between World Wars I and II much of Lithuania was >> >> ruled by Poland. That could explain how Polish >> >> became part of the mix.) >> >> >> >> If you put a gun to my head and made me guess at >> >> the original name, I'd guess something along the >> >> lines of VAICELIUNAS (with a little v mark over >> >> the C), which would sound kind of like >> >> "vi-chell-OO-nass." That's a very rough indication >> >> of what it would sound like -- talk to a >> >> Lithuanian to hear what it really sounds like. My >> >> point is that VAICELIUNAS is a moderately common >> >> name among Lithuanians, and it could easily be >> >> misspelled by someone who wasn't familiar with the >> >> name. Also, Lithuanian A often equates to O in >> >> Russian, and all official documents had to be in >> >> Russian, with names usually written phonetically >> >> in the Cyrillic alphabet. It wouldn't be odd for >> >> VAICELIUNAS to be transliterated into Cyrillic >> >> characters that equate to VOICHILUNAS. Then when >> >> someone unfamiliar with Lithuanian tried to render >> >> that in our alphabet, VOUCHYLANUS could easily be >> >> the result. >> >> >> >> I can't guarantee that this is right, but I've run >> >> into plenty of similar cases. You have to realize, >> >> you're talking about 1) Lithuanian names 2) being >> >> Russified and rendered in Cyrillic, and then 3) >> >> being spelled out in Roman letters, and then 4) >> >> being massacred further by people who were totally >> >> unfamiliar with Russian and Lithuanian. So the Y >> >> of handwritten VOUCHYLANUS could be misread as a >> >> G, and the O's misread as A. It's that kind of >> >> process that could account for where VAUCHGLANUS >> >> came from. >> >> >> >> I know that's a lot of if's and maybe's -- but >> >> surnames were mutilated all the time, and often >> >> there's no way to reconstruct the original from >> >> the mangled version with any certainty. All I'm >> >> saying is, the name forms you mention sound like >> >> mutilated Lithuanian to me, and that's plausible >> >> because Lithuania was officially part of Russia at >> >> the time. The original name might have been >> >> something like VAICELIUNAS. Or it might not. >> >> Proving it, one way or the other, is the tough >> >> part. But at least these remarks might give you a >> >> little more to work with. >> >> >> >> Fred Hoffman >> >> Author, _Polish Surnames: Origins & Meanings_ >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> >> POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I've tried finding a town from some old church records from 1905, it was Grashenisher, Lithuania at: http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/LocTown.asp But I could not even come anywhere near that name, has anyone ever heard of it or have any suggestion's. Thank you Adam --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

Go back to the website: http://www.herby.com.pl/herby/indexslo.html . Click on Tutaj znajdujà siæ objaúnienia skrótów Tina Ellis From: <bobbysushi@gmail.com> On Behalf Of polandbordersurnames-bounces@rootsweb.com Reply To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com To: <polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [PBS] Surname Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 07:54:13 +0200 Hi Les, Is there somewhere where i can find which 2 letter code belongs to which district. Great link, Thankyou. Bobby. > However prof. Rymut's database of names in Poland > http://www.herby.com.pl/herby/indexslo.html searched by Wo*nis shows several > possible options: > > Wojcianis 4 Ki:2, Pt:2 > Wojcielonis 1 Ol:1 > Wojciulanis 0 0 > Wojczulanis 31 £d:5, Ol:17, S³:4, Su:5 > Wojtulanis 18 Wa:3, Bs:2, Gd:1, P³:9, Su:3 > Wojtulonis 4 Lg:4 > > A number next to the name shows total number of persons living in the 1990's > in Poland, a two letter code denotes the district. > > Les -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com – What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint

Thanks to Tina and Fred, You have helped make sense of this name. I am in my early stages of this search and don't have much info to go on. I read that back in 1882, a lot of Russian/Polish refugees passed through Liverpool on there way to Canada and America and that some of them stayed and married here. If I assume the surname was VAICELIUNAS, is this likely to be a Jewish name and I should concentrate my search of the Jewish community areas of that time. Regards John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tina Ellis" <polska.research@gmail.com> To: <polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [PBS] VAUCHGLANUS or VOUCHYLANUS > Thank you Fred. I did not think to search for a unas ending. VAICELIUNAS > !!! There are listings in the Lithuanian telephone directory. Now the > researcher has at least that much. You are a jewel. I checked Polish > anusz > and had not luck. No matter what I tried I could find anything similar. > Maybe he will find records, which will give him a place name to search. > > This is the Lithuanian online telephone directory, which I used when > trying > to help. http://telefonai.zebra.lt/index.php?language=english > > Tina > > > On 10/7/07, Fred Hoffman <wmfhoffman@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> John Windle <johnwindle@btinternet.com> asked: >> >> > Has anyone heard of a Russian or maybe Polish >> > surname, >> > VAUCHGLANUS or VOUCHYLANUS. I am searching >> > for info on this family who moved from Russia to >> > Liverpool >> > around 1880. In some records the name was >> > shortened to Vouch. >> >> Neither of those names looks or sounds remotely >> Polish or Russian. My best guess would be >> Lithuanian, because Lithuanian surnames often end >> in -ANIS, -ONYS, -ANUS, etc. And as others have >> remarked, Lithuania was part of the Russian Empire >> from roughly 1772 to the end of World War I. So a >> Lithuanian would be categorized as a Russian, >> officially speaking. (Historically Lithuania and >> Poland were long joined as a single nation; and >> between World Wars I and II much of Lithuania was >> ruled by Poland. That could explain how Polish >> became part of the mix.) >> >> If you put a gun to my head and made me guess at >> the original name, I'd guess something along the >> lines of VAICELIUNAS (with a little v mark over >> the C), which would sound kind of like >> "vi-chell-OO-nass." That's a very rough indication >> of what it would sound like -- talk to a >> Lithuanian to hear what it really sounds like. My >> point is that VAICELIUNAS is a moderately common >> name among Lithuanians, and it could easily be >> misspelled by someone who wasn't familiar with the >> name. Also, Lithuanian A often equates to O in >> Russian, and all official documents had to be in >> Russian, with names usually written phonetically >> in the Cyrillic alphabet. It wouldn't be odd for >> VAICELIUNAS to be transliterated into Cyrillic >> characters that equate to VOICHILUNAS. Then when >> someone unfamiliar with Lithuanian tried to render >> that in our alphabet, VOUCHYLANUS could easily be >> the result. >> >> I can't guarantee that this is right, but I've run >> into plenty of similar cases. You have to realize, >> you're talking about 1) Lithuanian names 2) being >> Russified and rendered in Cyrillic, and then 3) >> being spelled out in Roman letters, and then 4) >> being massacred further by people who were totally >> unfamiliar with Russian and Lithuanian. So the Y >> of handwritten VOUCHYLANUS could be misread as a >> G, and the O's misread as A. It's that kind of >> process that could account for where VAUCHGLANUS >> came from. >> >> I know that's a lot of if's and maybe's -- but >> surnames were mutilated all the time, and often >> there's no way to reconstruct the original from >> the mangled version with any certainty. All I'm >> saying is, the name forms you mention sound like >> mutilated Lithuanian to me, and that's plausible >> because Lithuania was officially part of Russia at >> the time. The original name might have been >> something like VAICELIUNAS. Or it might not. >> Proving it, one way or the other, is the tough >> part. But at least these remarks might give you a >> little more to work with. >> >> Fred Hoffman >> Author, _Polish Surnames: Origins & Meanings_ >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi, John Windle <johnwindle@btinternet.com> wrote: > ... I am in my early stages of this > search and don't have much info to go on. I read > that back in 1882, a lot of > Russian/Polish refugees passed through Liverpool > on there way to Canada and > America and that some of them stayed and married > here. If I assume the > surname was VAICELIUNAS, is this likely to be a > Jewish name and I should > concentrate my search of the Jewish community > areas of that time. It would be unusual for a Jew to bear this name, or any of the similar names such as VAICILIUNAS or VAICIULIONIS. That's because of the name's origin. The endings -onis and -unas and -unis usually means "son of," and the Vaic- part comes from an ancient Slavic given name that shows up in Polish as Wojciech (which sounds kind of like "VOI-check"). This name was used first by ancient pagan Slavs, then by Slavic Christians once a Slav by this name was recognized as a saint by the Church (St. Wojciech, Bishop of Prague, martyred in 997, more often known in Western countries by the Germanic name Adalbert). Lithuanians adopted that name in the form Vaitiekus, and then shortened it to make nicknames such as Vaicius. Add a diminutive ending such as -elis and you have Vaicelis, and the son of Vaicelis would be Vaiceliunas. Or if the nickname was Vaiciulis, his son might be called Vaiciulionis. There are several Lithuanian surnames that sound similar and stated out meaning much the same thing, "son of little Vaitiekus" -- and these are the names that I think might match up with "Vouchylanus." I could be dead wrong about that -- please don't take my word on this as Gospel. But hearing and looking at the name "Vouchylanus," I'd say chances are decent it's a mangled form of a Lithuanian name, and something along the lines of VAICELIUNAS or VAICILIUNAS or VAICIULIONIS would be good phonetic matches. But these names would not usually be borne by Jews; they would tend to be associated with Lithuanian Christians. Of course, there were cases where Jews would try to assimilate by adopting a Christian-sounding name. So you can never say "never." But it would be unusual for a Jew to go by any of these names I mentioned, because Jews avoided names associated with ancient pagans or with Christian saints -- and Vaitiekus/Wojciech qualifies as both! I thought it might be worthwhile searching for this name in Avotaynu's Consolidated Jewish Surname Index [CJSI], a database of some 700,000 surnames, mostly Jewish, found in 42 different databases. The surnames are presented in Soundex order; for each surname, it identifies in which of the databases the name can be found, with a link to additional information about each database. CJSI is located at: http://www.avotaynu.com/csi/csi-home.html But when I tried searching for VAUCHGLANUS, VOUCHYLANUS, VAICELIUNAS, VAICILIUNAS, and VAICIULIONIS, there were very few plausible matches. There was a PECHIOLINAS listed in the All Lithuania database, but that's not a very close match. I also looked in Alexander Beider's _Dictionary of Jewish Surnames from the Russian Empire_, a pretty good source of info on surnames borne by Jews living within the territory of the Russian Empire, which included Lithuania (at that time). I found no name with a basic consonant pattern of V-CH-L-N-S (consonants tend to be more stable than vowels in names, so we focus on consonant patterns when looking for likely phonetic matches). So this tends to confirm what I said: unless the name has been mangled past all hope of recognition, I really don't think it's likely to be associated with Jews. It's far more likely to be associated with Lithuanian Christians, most likely Roman Catholics. Don't let this discourage you. The way to succeed in research is to keep asking "OK, could it be this? Could it be that?" It can be frustrating when the answer keeps coming up "No," but look at it this way -- with each no you're eliminating a path that does NOT lead where you need to go. Eliminate enough of the wrong paths, and sooner or later you're likely to find the right one. Good luck! Fred Hoffman Author, _Polish Surnames: Origins & Meanings_

Hi, I have found someone with the same surname as my grandmother, whom is living in the same village in Poland, Kulaszne. I would like to write to this person, but need a little help with the address. If someone could please have a look at this address for me (in polish) - CTRL/F for kulaszne or jan kuper, and you'll get a kuper in this village. http://www.komancza.pl/lato/pdstr.php?akcja=21&ln= The list of people in this section come under ' GOSPODARSTWA AGROTURYSTYCZNE ' - what does that mean? Agriculture? I'm going to write to this person, maybe it might lead to something. So i just need to understand the address i need to put down on the letter, and, if there is anything you can recommend that i add to the letter. Thanks, Bobby.

The list of people in this section come under ' GOSPODARSTWA > AGROTURYSTYCZNE ' - what does that mean? Agriculture? > Gospodarstwo Agroturystyczne means the Holiday Farm. A working farm which offers the B&B for the tourists. Ella

Hi Les, Is there somewhere where i can find which 2 letter code belongs to which district. Great link, Thankyou. Bobby. > However prof. Rymut's database of names in Poland > http://www.herby.com.pl/herby/indexslo.html searched by Wo*nis shows several > possible options: > > Wojcianis 4 Ki:2, Pt:2 > Wojcielonis 1 Ol:1 > Wojciulanis 0 0 > Wojczulanis 31 Łd:5, Ol:17, Sł:4, Su:5 > Wojtulanis 18 Wa:3, Bs:2, Gd:1, Pł:9, Su:3 > Wojtulonis 4 Lg:4 > > A number next to the name shows total number of persons living in the 1990's > in Poland, a two letter code denotes the district. > > Les > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Fred seems to think it would be unusual for it to be a Jewish surname. What was his given name? Was it a Christian one or a Jewish one? There are no guarantees, but sometimes that's an easier way to tell. Tina On 10/8/07, John Windle <johnwindle@btinternet.com> wrote: > > Thanks to Tina and Fred, > You have helped make sense of this name. I am in my early stages of this > search and don't have much info to go on. I read that back in 1882, a lot > of > Russian/Polish refugees passed through Liverpool on there way to Canada > and > America and that some of them stayed and married here. If I assume the > surname was VAICELIUNAS, is this likely to be a Jewish name and I should > concentrate my search of the Jewish community areas of that time. > > Regards > John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tina Ellis" <polska.research@gmail.com> > To: <polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 5:39 PM > Subject: Re: [PBS] VAUCHGLANUS or VOUCHYLANUS > > > > Thank you Fred. I did not think to search for a unas > ending. VAICELIUNAS > > !!! There are listings in the Lithuanian telephone directory. Now the > > researcher has at least that much. You are a jewel. I checked Polish > > anusz > > and had not luck. No matter what I tried I could find anything similar. > > Maybe he will find records, which will give him a place name to search. > > > > This is the Lithuanian online telephone directory, which I used when > > trying > > to help. http://telefonai.zebra.lt/index.php?language=english > > > > Tina > > > > > > On 10/7/07, Fred Hoffman <wmfhoffman@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> John Windle <johnwindle@btinternet.com> asked: > >> > >> > Has anyone heard of a Russian or maybe Polish > >> > surname, > >> > VAUCHGLANUS or VOUCHYLANUS. I am searching > >> > for info on this family who moved from Russia to > >> > Liverpool > >> > around 1880. In some records the name was > >> > shortened to Vouch. > >> > >> Neither of those names looks or sounds remotely > >> Polish or Russian. My best guess would be > >> Lithuanian, because Lithuanian surnames often end > >> in -ANIS, -ONYS, -ANUS, etc. And as others have > >> remarked, Lithuania was part of the Russian Empire > >> from roughly 1772 to the end of World War I. So a > >> Lithuanian would be categorized as a Russian, > >> officially speaking. (Historically Lithuania and > >> Poland were long joined as a single nation; and > >> between World Wars I and II much of Lithuania was > >> ruled by Poland. That could explain how Polish > >> became part of the mix.) > >> > >> If you put a gun to my head and made me guess at > >> the original name, I'd guess something along the > >> lines of VAICELIUNAS (with a little v mark over > >> the C), which would sound kind of like > >> "vi-chell-OO-nass." That's a very rough indication > >> of what it would sound like -- talk to a > >> Lithuanian to hear what it really sounds like. My > >> point is that VAICELIUNAS is a moderately common > >> name among Lithuanians, and it could easily be > >> misspelled by someone who wasn't familiar with the > >> name. Also, Lithuanian A often equates to O in > >> Russian, and all official documents had to be in > >> Russian, with names usually written phonetically > >> in the Cyrillic alphabet. It wouldn't be odd for > >> VAICELIUNAS to be transliterated into Cyrillic > >> characters that equate to VOICHILUNAS. Then when > >> someone unfamiliar with Lithuanian tried to render > >> that in our alphabet, VOUCHYLANUS could easily be > >> the result. > >> > >> I can't guarantee that this is right, but I've run > >> into plenty of similar cases. You have to realize, > >> you're talking about 1) Lithuanian names 2) being > >> Russified and rendered in Cyrillic, and then 3) > >> being spelled out in Roman letters, and then 4) > >> being massacred further by people who were totally > >> unfamiliar with Russian and Lithuanian. So the Y > >> of handwritten VOUCHYLANUS could be misread as a > >> G, and the O's misread as A. It's that kind of > >> process that could account for where VAUCHGLANUS > >> came from. > >> > >> I know that's a lot of if's and maybe's -- but > >> surnames were mutilated all the time, and often > >> there's no way to reconstruct the original from > >> the mangled version with any certainty. All I'm > >> saying is, the name forms you mention sound like > >> mutilated Lithuanian to me, and that's plausible > >> because Lithuania was officially part of Russia at > >> the time. The original name might have been > >> something like VAICELIUNAS. Or it might not. > >> Proving it, one way or the other, is the tough > >> part. But at least these remarks might give you a > >> little more to work with. > >> > >> Fred Hoffman > >> Author, _Polish Surnames: Origins & Meanings_ > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I read todays letters and I was reminded that my gparents in laws immigrated from Liverpool,England altho they were born in Russia 1904(I think) and I just read St Peterburg 1908. I read that it was Liverpool sometime ago. Anyway I would like to be straighten out. They spelled the name Hofmann(German Spelling) for Feige and most of their family.His name is Hyman Hoffman.We know Feige as Fannie.Children are Louis,Anna,Abraham,Benjamin,Harry and Irving He came in 1904 and Louis and Anna followed. They lived in NYC. If in deed they lived in Liverpool.I would like to know where. I would like to know also when they arrived there. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

Many people from Ukraine and Russia journeyed to Liverpool, and then took a ship to Canada or USA. The reason for this was that the cost of the trip from Liverpool was half of that from Hamburg or Bremen. My husband's grandparents travelled from Ukraine overland and then in a small boat to the British shore, and again overland to Liverpool. Just because they came on a boat from Liverpool doesn't necessarily mean they lived in England. Muriel -----Original Message----- From: polandbordersurnames-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:polandbordersurnames-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of RAROSE10@aol.com Sent: October 7, 2007 10:58 PM To: polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com Subject: [PBS] Help me I read todays letters and I was reminded that my gparents in laws immigrated from Liverpool,England altho they were born in Russia 1904(I think) and I just read St Peterburg 1908. I read that it was Liverpool sometime ago. Anyway I would like to be straighten out. They spelled the name Hofmann(German Spelling) for Feige and most of their family.His name is Hyman Hoffman.We know Feige as Fannie.Children are Louis,Anna,Abraham,Benjamin,Harry and Irving He came in 1904 and Louis and Anna followed. They lived in NYC. If in deed they lived in Liverpool.I would like to know where. I would like to know also when they arrived there. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jim: Hoffman gives a good description of why spelling changes might have occurred in names especially 'a' to 'o' in Russian. Leo In a message dated 10/7/2007 9:40:14 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, wmfhoffman@sbcglobal.net writes: Hi, John Windle <johnwindle@btinternet.com> asked: > Has anyone heard of a Russian or maybe Polish > surname, > VAUCHGLANUS or VOUCHYLANUS. I am searching > for info on this family who moved from Russia to > Liverpool > around 1880. In some records the name was > shortened to Vouch. Neither of those names looks or sounds remotely Polish or Russian. My best guess would be Lithuanian, because Lithuanian surnames often end in -ANIS, -ONYS, -ANUS, etc. And as others have remarked, Lithuania was part of the Russian Empire from roughly 1772 to the end of World War I. So a Lithuanian would be categorized as a Russian, officially speaking. (Historically Lithuania and Poland were long joined as a single nation; and between World Wars I and II much of Lithuania was ruled by Poland. That could explain how Polish became part of the mix.) If you put a gun to my head and made me guess at the original name, I'd guess something along the lines of VAICELIUNAS (with a little v mark over the C), which would sound kind of like "vi-chell-OO-nass." That's a very rough indication of what it would sound like -- talk to a Lithuanian to hear what it really sounds like. My point is that VAICELIUNAS is a moderately common name among Lithuanians, and it could easily be misspelled by someone who wasn't familiar with the name. Also, Lithuanian A often equates to O in Russian, and all official documents had to be in Russian, with names usually written phonetically in the Cyrillic alphabet. It wouldn't be odd for VAICELIUNAS to be transliterated into Cyrillic characters that equate to VOICHILUNAS. Then when someone unfamiliar with Lithuanian tried to render that in our alphabet, VOUCHYLANUS could easily be the result. I can't guarantee that this is right, but I've run into plenty of similar cases. You have to realize, you're talking about 1) Lithuanian names 2) being Russified and rendered in Cyrillic, and then 3) being spelled out in Roman letters, and then 4) being massacred further by people who were totally unfamiliar with Russian and Lithuanian. So the Y of handwritten VOUCHYLANUS could be misread as a G, and the O's misread as A. It's that kind of process that could account for where VAUCHGLANUS came from. I know that's a lot of if's and maybe's -- but surnames were mutilated all the time, and often there's no way to reconstruct the original from the mangled version with any certainty. All I'm saying is, the name forms you mention sound like mutilated Lithuanian to me, and that's plausible because Lithuania was officially part of Russia at the time. The original name might have been something like VAICELIUNAS. Or it might not. Proving it, one way or the other, is the tough part. But at least these remarks might give you a little more to work with. Fred Hoffman Author, _Polish Surnames: Origins & Meanings_ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

-----Original Message----- From: polandbordersurnames-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:polandbordersurnames-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Windle Sent: Sunday, 7 October 2007 8:19 AM To: PolandBorderSurnames-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PBS] SURNAME Hi all, Has anyone heard of a Russian or maybe Polish surname, VAUCHGLANUS or VOUCHYLANUS. I am searching for info on this family who moved from Russia to Liverpool around 1880. In some records the name was shortened to Vouch. Regards John johnwindle@btinternet.com =========== Looks like a name of Lithuanian origin, written in Polish and transliterated into English. What I find strange that a search of Lithuanian phone directory http://telefonai.takas.lt/index.php?language=english failed to produce any hits close to what I anticipated. However prof. Rymut's database of names in Poland http://www.herby.com.pl/herby/indexslo.html searched by Wo*nis shows several possible options: Wojcianis 4 Ki:2, Pt:2 Wojcielonis 1 Ol:1 Wojciulanis 0 0 Wojczulanis 31 Łd:5, Ol:17, Sł:4, Su:5 Wojtulanis 18 Wa:3, Bs:2, Gd:1, Pł:9, Su:3 Wojtulonis 4 Lg:4 A number next to the name shows total number of persons living in the 1990's in Poland, a two letter code denotes the district. Les

Hi, John Windle <johnwindle@btinternet.com> asked: > Has anyone heard of a Russian or maybe Polish > surname, > VAUCHGLANUS or VOUCHYLANUS. I am searching > for info on this family who moved from Russia to > Liverpool > around 1880. In some records the name was > shortened to Vouch. Neither of those names looks or sounds remotely Polish or Russian. My best guess would be Lithuanian, because Lithuanian surnames often end in -ANIS, -ONYS, -ANUS, etc. And as others have remarked, Lithuania was part of the Russian Empire from roughly 1772 to the end of World War I. So a Lithuanian would be categorized as a Russian, officially speaking. (Historically Lithuania and Poland were long joined as a single nation; and between World Wars I and II much of Lithuania was ruled by Poland. That could explain how Polish became part of the mix.) If you put a gun to my head and made me guess at the original name, I'd guess something along the lines of VAICELIUNAS (with a little v mark over the C), which would sound kind of like "vi-chell-OO-nass." That's a very rough indication of what it would sound like -- talk to a Lithuanian to hear what it really sounds like. My point is that VAICELIUNAS is a moderately common name among Lithuanians, and it could easily be misspelled by someone who wasn't familiar with the name. Also, Lithuanian A often equates to O in Russian, and all official documents had to be in Russian, with names usually written phonetically in the Cyrillic alphabet. It wouldn't be odd for VAICELIUNAS to be transliterated into Cyrillic characters that equate to VOICHILUNAS. Then when someone unfamiliar with Lithuanian tried to render that in our alphabet, VOUCHYLANUS could easily be the result. I can't guarantee that this is right, but I've run into plenty of similar cases. You have to realize, you're talking about 1) Lithuanian names 2) being Russified and rendered in Cyrillic, and then 3) being spelled out in Roman letters, and then 4) being massacred further by people who were totally unfamiliar with Russian and Lithuanian. So the Y of handwritten VOUCHYLANUS could be misread as a G, and the O's misread as A. It's that kind of process that could account for where VAUCHGLANUS came from. I know that's a lot of if's and maybe's -- but surnames were mutilated all the time, and often there's no way to reconstruct the original from the mangled version with any certainty. All I'm saying is, the name forms you mention sound like mutilated Lithuanian to me, and that's plausible because Lithuania was officially part of Russia at the time. The original name might have been something like VAICELIUNAS. Or it might not. Proving it, one way or the other, is the tough part. But at least these remarks might give you a little more to work with. Fred Hoffman Author, _Polish Surnames: Origins & Meanings_

Hi John, Any idea which part of Russia? It might be worth exploring Lithuania as an option. The name might have that origin and the country was part of the Russian Empire at the time. http://www.polfam.org -----Original Message----- From: polandbordersurnames-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:polandbordersurnames-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Windle Sent: Sunday, 7 October 2007 8:19 AM To: PolandBorderSurnames-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PBS] SURNAME Hi all, Has anyone heard of a Russian or maybe Polish surname, VAUCHGLANUS or VOUCHYLANUS. I am searching for info on this family who moved from Russia to Liverpool around 1880. In some records the name was shortened to Vouch. Regards John johnwindle@btinternet.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pamela, Since you are putting something together, you can download the pictures of the ship on which John came to America - you will find them at the Ellis Island site on the same page with the manifests. My relatives really enjoyed seeing the ship pictures, one of which was framed and given as a gift. The link to Jan's manifest has been posted to this message board. If Juliana came to the United States, perhaps you will find her manifest and download that picture also. Using the information already posted, you have much more than you started with. We are seldom able to answer all the questions about our families with what we find on the internet. But, it looks like you have a bonus because now you know the name of John's brother - Ludwik or Louis. British immigrants came to the US on ships also, so searching for ship manifests is not any different. Just use the sounds-like feature of the Steve Morse search engine to find more names. You will want to use the correct first names for this family: Juliana, Teofil - there is no Geofil. It is likely that Amelia married Thomas Zebrowski. Did you find their record in the census? http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/polandbordersurnames/2007-09/1190210754 You can also search for 'sounds-like' Krakowiak; there are a few Krakoviaks from the same town. Ellis Island search engine: http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/EIDB/ellis.html In 1913, Jan Krakowiak immigrated to Gastonville, PA, to his brother-in-law Tomasz Zebrowska, leaving his wife Julianna in 'Biedrzychow', Radom. Nationality Russia; race or people Polish; last permanent residence Russia.. This page and next page. http://www.ellisisland.org/search/shipManifest.asp?pID=100666050045 In 1910, Stanislaw Krakowiak immigrated to his uncle, Wojciech Malinowski in Pittsburgh, leaving his wife Helena in Bodrzechow, Radom. Nationality Russia; race or people Polish; last permanent residence Russia.. This page and next page. Eventually, Helena immigrated to the US, in the 1920 census in Pittsburgh is indicated she immigrated in 1912. http://www.ellisisland.org/search/shipManifest.asp?pID=101353010529 In 1907, Ludwik Krakowiak, Brs?rzachow, immigrated to his brother Jan Krakowiak in Pittsburgh. Nationality Russia; race or people Polish; last permanent residence Russia. http://www.ellisisland.org/search/shipManifest.asp?pID=101953160178 In 1910, Ludwik Krakowiak, immigrated to his brother Jan Krakowiak in Pittsburgh, leaving his wife, Katsrz in Biedrzychow, Radom.. Nationality Russia; race or people Polish; last permanent residence Russia..This page and next page. http://www.ellisisland.org/search/shipManifest.asp?pID=101460050271 Aniela Krakoviak going to her father Jan in Pittsburgh, 1910; mother Juliana in Biedryielow; this page and next http://www.ellisisland.org/search/shipManifest.asp?pID=101429060307 Maybe this is your step-mother-in-law? http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/polandbordersurnames/2007-09/1190236822 http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.ceeurope.poland.mazowieckie/1128/mb.ashx Plusa, Krakowiak, Rzepka of Radom, Biedzychow Am looking for any information for Jan Krakowiak 1860-1938 and wife Juliana Rzepka Krakowiak 1862-1945 of Radom or Biedzychow. Daughters Antonina and Marcin (Martin) Plusa and Aniela Krakowiak (Pittsburgh, Pa) brother Feliz Krakowiak (Gary, Indiana). Emigrated c 1910. Siblings Bolek ?-1991, Stella, with sons Adam and Renee,(possibly in France), Teofil with son Stanislaw, two granddaughters. Regards, Mary Pamela Jansen wrote: > I don't have a pare trail to follow. This is my step mother in laws family, an she has told me all she knows. He brother and parents are dead. She has one sister, and she has questione her already,as she has tried to do the family tree. Ibelieve these places come rom her. > It wsmy belief, and I may be wromg, but I thouight Radom was either a large city or a County, and that Ilza and Biedrzychow / Biedzychow might be smaller villages within the area of Radom. > The Census, that I have are in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania, U.S.A. They all just say they are from Poland/Russia. No towns or hints there. Most changed their names from Polish toan English equivalent (Marcin became Martin, Katerzina, Catherine, Antoninm Anthony, etc. > I appreciate you trying to help me. But I am afraid this list is so much differentthanthe British ones I am use to that I don't know what else to do. I do not have money to spend on birth and death certificates etc. I have already spent more than I can count on y own family. I just wanted my Stepmother in law to be happy, and be included in the work I plan to give my family at Christmas. My hopes were that someone else on this list, including possiblly er sister might respond that they are ealted and have some answers, and where to go once studying in Poland. > I am sorry I cannot provide what you need, please don't spend any more time trying to help me, I will just give her what I have typed up already. > > Thanks Again for all your help so far, Pamela > > pam.jansen @ insightbb. com > > Reasearching in Poland and Pennsylvania ; RZEPKA, KRAKOWIAK, KOTARSKI, PLUSA > > > Tina Ellis <polska.research@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Pam, > > You need to find records ... physical records ... paper documents. You > cannot work do research using misspelled places or names or maybes. There > are two places named Biedrzychow, one named Ilza and two named Radom. > Please narrow it down for us. We need to know the exact place because > records are filed by the place born, married or died, their religion and > their parish or administrative district. If they are over 100 years old, > they will be in an archive. We need places and time frames on where to let > you know you can find records on your family. > > Please explain how you came up three place names. > > Thank you. > > Tina > > > On 10/6/07, Pamela Jansen > wrote: > >> I have done ancestry.com and asked family, and googled the names. >> >> Tina Ellis >> > wrote: Where have you searched? > >> You left the playing field wide open. We could all give you suggestions, >> which you may have already tried. Please narrow it down for us so we are >> not repeating what you have done. >> >> Tina Ellis >> >> >> On 10/6/07, Pamela Jansen >> wrote: >> >>> Jan KRAKOWIAK *married* Uliana RZEPKA / somewhere in Poland, maybe >>> Ilza >>> or >>> Biedzychow, or Radom. >>> >>> >>> >>> Children: >>> >>> Antoinette KRAKOWIAK B: 2-16-1887 Biedzychow, Radom, Poland >>> D: 9-22-1942 Pittsburgh, >>> Pennsylvania, U.S.A. >>> >>> Bolek KRAKOWIAK B: ? M: ? D: ? Inducted into Russian Army and >>> never >>> seen or >>> heard from again. >>> >>> Geofil KRAKOWIAK B: ? M: ? D: ? >>> >>> Teofil (aka) Theofil KRAKOWIAK B: ? M: ? D: ? >>> >>> Feliks (aka) Felix KRAKOWIAK B: ? M: ? D: ? >>> >>> Amelia KRAKOWIAK B: ? M: Mr. Zebroski in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania? D: ? >>> >>> Zdieslaw KRAKOWIAK B: ? M: ? D: ? >>> >>> Stanislava aka (Stella) B: ? M: 1st time in U.S.A. 2nd time in France 1 >>> son each marriage. >>> D: ? >>> >>> >

Hi Tina, The name first showed up in the 1891 Census of England. A family of 5 with the name VAUCHGLANUS where living in Liverpool. Head of the family was William and where born says Russia (British Subject ), occupation was Tailor. They did have a Peter MIRICH staying with them also from Russia and also a Tailor. Then a birth record for one of his children born in 1890 says Margaret VOUCHYLUNAS and in 1912 when Margaret gets married the Certificate has the name VOUCH. I checked for Peter MIRICH in the 1901 census and he was now MIRISH and states POLISH (British Subject). All very confusing. Can you make sense of it all ?. Thanks John johnwindle@btinternet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tina Ellis" <polska.research@gmail.com> To: <polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 4:16 AM Subject: Re: [PBS] SURNAME > Wow ... This is a tough one. I don't think it is Lithuanian. I think it > is > either a Polish or a Russian name very misspelled. > > John ... On what documents have you found these spellings? > > Tina Ellis > > > > On 10/6/07, John Windle <johnwindle@btinternet.com> wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> Has anyone heard of a Russian or maybe Polish surname, >> VAUCHGLANUS or VOUCHYLANUS. I am searching for info on this family who >> moved from Russia to Liverpool around 1880. In some records the name was >> shortened to Vouch. >> Regards >> John >> >> johnwindle@btinternet.com >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

John, Quite often we find that people have a problem transcribing information from handwritten documents. In order to verify the spellings you gave, it would be nice to see the actual documents. As spelled, the surname VOUCH... is not Polish. Roman John Windle wrote: > Hi Tina, > The name first showed up in the 1891 Census of England. A family of 5 with > the name VAUCHGLANUS where living in Liverpool. Head of the family was > William and where born says Russia (British Subject ), occupation was > Tailor. They did have a Peter MIRICH staying with them also from Russia and > also a Tailor. Then a birth record for one of his children born in 1890 > says Margaret VOUCHYLUNAS and in 1912 when Margaret gets married the > Certificate has the name VOUCH. I checked for Peter MIRICH in the 1901 > census and he was now MIRISH and states POLISH (British Subject). All very > confusing. Can you make sense of it all ?. > > Thanks > John > > johnwindle@btinternet.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tina Ellis" <polska.research@gmail.com> > To: <polandbordersurnames@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 4:16 AM > Subject: Re: [PBS] SURNAME > > >> Wow ... This is a tough one. I don't think it is Lithuanian. I think it >> is >> either a Polish or a Russian name very misspelled. >> >> John ... On what documents have you found these spellings? >> >> Tina Ellis >> >> >> >> On 10/6/07, John Windle <johnwindle@btinternet.com> wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> Has anyone heard of a Russian or maybe Polish surname, >>> VAUCHGLANUS or VOUCHYLANUS. I am searching for info on this family who >>> moved from Russia to Liverpool around 1880. In some records the name was >>> shortened to Vouch. >>> Regards >>> John >>> >>> johnwindle@btinternet.com >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLANDBORDERSURNAMES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >