Fred...there was a local Northampton, MA family from Minsk, Belarus who considered themselves White Russians with the surname Anciporowich. John Skibiski -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Fred Hoffman Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:54 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PBS] Can someone help me? Hi, Gloria Antypowich posted a very interesting note. The text is too long to repeat all of it here, but obviously anyone can look it up in the list's archives. Gloria, from the info given in that note, it's hard to determine for sure the ethnicity of your husband's grandfather. He could have been of Russian descent, or Polish, or Belarusian; or his ancestors might have been among the many Poles who resettled in Belarus. These peoples have mixed and mingled over the ages, as have their languages and names, and it can be pretty tough to untangle it all. It doesn't help that at one time, Poland (or more properly, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth) ruled much of what is now Belarus and western Ukraine, so that people living there were often classified as "Polish," even if that wasn't entirely accurate. Then in the late 18th century, the Russian Empire swallowed up those lands, ruling what is now central and eastern Poland, Lithuania, Belarus, and northwestern Ukraine. So from then until after World War I, people from those areas were officially classified as citizens of Russia, and were often called "Russians" for short. In other words, there is often a great deal of ambiguity in the terminology. About the only hope of straightening it all out is to trace the family history -- which is, of course, what you're trying to do. It's a kind of Catch-22 situation. You can't find the family history till you straighten all this stuff out, and you can't straighten this stuff out till you trace the family history. Still, a lot of people manage to break through, just by plugging away at it. I will say this. I think the name of your husband's grandfather appeared in Russian form because he was a citizen of the Russian Empire, and Russian was the official language for all documents. In other words, he wasn't necessarily Russian; but he could have been. Russians probably called him Iosif Antipovich Khvat (I'm rendering the Cyrillic spelling of the name phonetically), which means "Joseph Khvat, the son of Antip." It is standard in Russian to name a person with first name, patronymic, and surname. So even if Antypowicz later became the surname, it was probably due to confusion because people were unfamiliar with Russian naming habits. I'm guessing KHVAT was the surname, and Antipovich the patronymic. In case you're wondering, KHVAT is pronounced with a guttural sound like the "ch" in German "Bach," followed by "vott," all in one syllable. It's hard for English speakers, but not tough at all for Slavs. Poles would render the name as Jozef Antypowicz Chwat. But for Poles, a name ending in -owicz is a surname; they don't use patronymics as a middle name. That could be a contributing factor in the establishment of Antypowicz as the family's surname later on; Poles might have focused on Antypowicz and the Chwat part kind of got lost in the shuffle. Or they might have called him Jozef Chwat and left out the Antypowicz part completely. This confusion may explain why sometimes you see Chwat as the surname, and sometimes Antypowicz. That patronymic, Antypowicz or Antipovich, however you spell it, suggests Belarusian or Russian ancestry, because Poles don't often use the first name Antyp or Antip. It's of Biblical origin, associated with Herod Antipas, but there was also a Saint Antipas of Pergamum or Pergamon mentioned in the Book of Revelations. I doubt many Christians would name children after Herod Antipas, but that saint is a different matter. The name never really caught on in western Europe, or among Poles, who are mostly Catholic. But it did catch on among followers of the Orthodox faith, which included Russians, Ukrainians, and Belarusians. That's why I say the use of that name in the patronymic suggests family origin in the lands east of Poland's modern borders. Those are the areas where you'd be more likely to run into a fellow who was "son of Antip." CHWAT, as Poles spell it, or KHVAT, as we might spell the Cyrillic version in Russian (which looks to us like XBAT), comes from a word used in both Polish and Russian to mean "a plucky, daring fellow." It probably started as a nickname for an ancestor who impressed people with his energy and courage. Unfortunately, the word is used in both Polish and Russian, so its use as a surname doesn't tell us much about the ethnicity of a family that went by it. I don't know how much good this does you, but I hope it clarifies things a little. Fred Hoffman Author, _Polish Surnames: Origins & Meanings_ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I also agree. Cyndi of http://www.cyndislist.com/ says a lot on her name change pages to the effect that the government spent a fortune hiring native translators and that name changes could not have taken place at Ellis Island because the names had to match the original documents. What she fails (as I recall) to mention is that there is no single right way to transliterate a name using a different alphabet. The few ancestors I have found in old records have their names spelled many, many ways. I count at least two dozen ways to spell Vishnick, and around a dozen of these were used by my ancestors. Even simple names like Kaplansky and Kamientsky also have many, many ways. >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> >> I agree - any person coming from a country that did not have English as >> their language, stood the risk of having their name changed to what it >> sounded like, in English. All agents that handled passengers coming from >> overseas spoke only English, and could not be bothered to wait for a >> translator. I found this to be the case in several names I am >> researching, >> and was told this as well by my grandparents. >> >> Muriel

> > > 1. Re: Name change "myth" (Melanie Pereira) > For what it is worth, I have never found a document within my > father's family that had the name spelled twice in the same way. > Just what happened I guess. Frustrating at best however. You just > have to guess and work with it and hope you've got the right > people. Good luck. Leah

Also the US census mutilated some names. Kujalowicz was listed in a variety of spellings and my grandmother's first name Theodosia was not even recognizable on some! Jacqueline Szymanowski 3921 Random Lane Sacramento CA 95864 [email protected] > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 11:54:59 -0600 > Subject: Re: [PBS] Name change "myth" > > I agree - any person coming from a country that did not have English as > their language, stood the risk of having their name changed to what it > sounded like, in English. All agents that handled passengers coming from > overseas spoke only English, and could not be bothered to wait for a > translator. I found this to be the case in several names I am researching, > and was told this as well by my grandparents. > > Muriel > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gerald > Cierpilowski > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:36 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PBS] Name change "myth" > > Maybe the name changes were not on purpose at the immigration > purposes, but there were changes. For example: > > My grandmother and her two sons were shown on three separate Ellis > Island manifests out of Hamburg. The first two show that they were > "scratched" for some reason and did not arrive in New York. Each of > the three manifests had the surname spelled differently; and NONE of > the spellings was correct. Each of them were spelled the way they > SOUNDED in English. I have other examples in my family as well. Names > WERE changed. > > Jerry > Lock Haven, PA > Detroit MI > > > On Feb 16, 2009, at 10:21 AM, C. Bukoski wrote: > > > > > Hi Gloria, > > > > May I ask what your source is for the childrens' names, dates, and > > places of birth? Do you have actual baptismal certificates? > > > > Regarding the changing of family names at immigration, that is a > > myth. Immigration was pretty big business at the turn of the 20th > > century. Immigrants travelled with passports which would have their > > names spelled out (though not in English) and the translators were > > available at the ports of arrival (and probably departure). If > > anything, names would have changed (for any variety of reasons) > > after they settled in North America. > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am almost certain that is how one of my g.g. gandfathers name got to changed from Augustus Reif to August Raif.    Joseph Sealy, Texas --- On Mon, 2/16/09, jim gambrel <[email protected]> wrote: From: jim gambrel <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PBS] Name change "myth" To: [email protected] Date: Monday, February 16, 2009, 11:54 AM I agree - any person coming from a country that did not have English as their language, stood the risk of having their name changed to what it sounded like, in English. All agents that handled passengers coming from overseas spoke only English, and could not be bothered to wait for a translator. I found this to be the case in several names I am researching, and was told this as well by my grandparents. Muriel

Cynthia: The town I am researching is Chorostkow which is in the oblast or province of Ternopil, and there is also the city of Ternopil in the province of Ternopil, so Ternopil (the city) would not necessarily apply to my research as the town of Chorostkow is a good distance South of Ternopil. The names BROSZCZAK - ZARICZNY - MAZUR - RABSKI come up in my research and I was wondering who might also have been researching these names and submitted their findings, without source information, to the LDS. I am working from microfilms of the area and I like to substantiate my findings from copies of original baptisms, marriage, death records etc. so I was hoping to stumble on someone who might also have these names in their background. Thank you for your comments. Helen Ginn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [PBS] Ternopil > Helen: > My great grandfather, Mefthody(Tom in USA) Rydgig (original was > Rydzyk) came > from Ternopil in about 1897. Is there a specific question you have > about > that region? > > Cyndi > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 08:14:52 -0500 > From: "Helen Ginn" <[email protected]> > Subject: [PBS] BROSZCZAK - ZARICZNY - MAZUR - RABSKI - Chorostkow > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1251"; > reply-type=original > > Listers: > > The above surnames come up on the family search web site > below. The information has been submitted by an LDS member > after 1991 but there is no source information. > > Is anyone on this list searching any of the names or the village > of Chorostkow, Husiatyn, Ternopil Oblast in Ukraine? > > http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/customsearchresults.asp?LDS=1&region= > 5&last_name=Broszczak&standardize=N > > Helen Ginn > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

For those interested in recent Polish history: http://www.polskieradio.pl/zagranica/news/artykul102440.html I've copied the article below; it makes an interesting comparison with this item from the BBC on the Church in Poland today: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7884472.stm Bronwyn. *A premiere of the long-awaited production entitled Popiełuszko. Freedom is within Ourselves is taking place at Warsaw's Grand Theater - National Opera this evening.* The movie is based on the life of the late Father Jerzy Popiełuszko from his early childhood to his brutal murder by the communist secret police in October 1984. Film director Rafał Wierzyński has said he was 16 when he came to the funeral of the priest, and has since then pondered whether he himself would be capable of such sacrifice. *"That is when my political and religious awareness came through. Looking back, I know that I did not understand Father Popiełuszko back then - I see that now. I didn't comprehend his calling. Like most people I was aware that he stood up to the authorities but I didn't know where his strength them came from. I now understand that it came from his faith."* Adam Woronicz, who played the lead role in the movie, has said he strove to portray a priest that united people. The fortunes of Father Jerzy Popiełuszko have been set against the background of the key events in the 1980s in Poland, such as the August protests in 1980, which led to the establishment of the Solidarity trade union, as well as patriotic manifests during martial law imposed in the early 80s. The filming, which lasted seven months, took place in 14 cities in Poland and involved a cast of thousands. The movie will be screened across cinemas from 27 February. Father Jerzy Popiełuszko was born on 14 September 1947 in the village of Okopy in eastern Poland. His strong support for the Solidarity movement as well as open criticism of the communist regime won him broad public support in the country. He was murdered for political reasons on 19 October 1984. His funeral ceremony was attended by up to half a million people.

I agree - any person coming from a country that did not have English as their language, stood the risk of having their name changed to what it sounded like, in English. All agents that handled passengers coming from overseas spoke only English, and could not be bothered to wait for a translator. I found this to be the case in several names I am researching, and was told this as well by my grandparents. Muriel -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gerald Cierpilowski Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:36 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PBS] Name change "myth" Maybe the name changes were not on purpose at the immigration purposes, but there were changes. For example: My grandmother and her two sons were shown on three separate Ellis Island manifests out of Hamburg. The first two show that they were "scratched" for some reason and did not arrive in New York. Each of the three manifests had the surname spelled differently; and NONE of the spellings was correct. Each of them were spelled the way they SOUNDED in English. I have other examples in my family as well. Names WERE changed. Jerry Lock Haven, PA Detroit MI On Feb 16, 2009, at 10:21 AM, C. Bukoski wrote: > > Hi Gloria, > > May I ask what your source is for the childrens' names, dates, and > places of birth? Do you have actual baptismal certificates? > > Regarding the changing of family names at immigration, that is a > myth. Immigration was pretty big business at the turn of the 20th > century. Immigrants travelled with passports which would have their > names spelled out (though not in English) and the translators were > available at the ports of arrival (and probably departure). If > anything, names would have changed (for any variety of reasons) > after they settled in North America. >

Helen: My great grandfather, Mefthody(Tom in USA) Rydgig (original was Rydzyk) came from Ternopil in about 1897. Is there a specific question you have about that region? Cyndi ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 08:14:52 -0500 From: "Helen Ginn" <[email protected]> Subject: [PBS] BROSZCZAK - ZARICZNY - MAZUR - RABSKI - Chorostkow To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1251"; reply-type=original Listers: The above surnames come up on the family search web site below. The information has been submitted by an LDS member after 1991 but there is no source information. Is anyone on this list searching any of the names or the village of Chorostkow, Husiatyn, Ternopil Oblast in Ukraine? http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/customsearchresults.asp?LDS=1&region= 5&last_name=Broszczak&standardize=N Helen Ginn

Hi, Gloria Antypowich posted a very interesting note. The text is too long to repeat all of it here, but obviously anyone can look it up in the list's archives. Gloria, from the info given in that note, it's hard to determine for sure the ethnicity of your husband's grandfather. He could have been of Russian descent, or Polish, or Belarusian; or his ancestors might have been among the many Poles who resettled in Belarus. These peoples have mixed and mingled over the ages, as have their languages and names, and it can be pretty tough to untangle it all. It doesn't help that at one time, Poland (or more properly, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth) ruled much of what is now Belarus and western Ukraine, so that people living there were often classified as "Polish," even if that wasn't entirely accurate. Then in the late 18th century, the Russian Empire swallowed up those lands, ruling what is now central and eastern Poland, Lithuania, Belarus, and northwestern Ukraine. So from then until after World War I, people from those areas were officially classified as citizens of Russia, and were often called "Russians" for short. In other words, there is often a great deal of ambiguity in the terminology. About the only hope of straightening it all out is to trace the family history -- which is, of course, what you're trying to do. It's a kind of Catch-22 situation. You can't find the family history till you straighten all this stuff out, and you can't straighten this stuff out till you trace the family history. Still, a lot of people manage to break through, just by plugging away at it. I will say this. I think the name of your husband's grandfather appeared in Russian form because he was a citizen of the Russian Empire, and Russian was the official language for all documents. In other words, he wasn't necessarily Russian; but he could have been. Russians probably called him Iosif Antipovich Khvat (I'm rendering the Cyrillic spelling of the name phonetically), which means "Joseph Khvat, the son of Antip." It is standard in Russian to name a person with first name, patronymic, and surname. So even if Antypowicz later became the surname, it was probably due to confusion because people were unfamiliar with Russian naming habits. I'm guessing KHVAT was the surname, and Antipovich the patronymic. In case you're wondering, KHVAT is pronounced with a guttural sound like the "ch" in German "Bach," followed by "vott," all in one syllable. It's hard for English speakers, but not tough at all for Slavs. Poles would render the name as Jozef Antypowicz Chwat. But for Poles, a name ending in -owicz is a surname; they don't use patronymics as a middle name. That could be a contributing factor in the establishment of Antypowicz as the family's surname later on; Poles might have focused on Antypowicz and the Chwat part kind of got lost in the shuffle. Or they might have called him Jozef Chwat and left out the Antypowicz part completely. This confusion may explain why sometimes you see Chwat as the surname, and sometimes Antypowicz. That patronymic, Antypowicz or Antipovich, however you spell it, suggests Belarusian or Russian ancestry, because Poles don't often use the first name Antyp or Antip. It's of Biblical origin, associated with Herod Antipas, but there was also a Saint Antipas of Pergamum or Pergamon mentioned in the Book of Revelations. I doubt many Christians would name children after Herod Antipas, but that saint is a different matter. The name never really caught on in western Europe, or among Poles, who are mostly Catholic. But it did catch on among followers of the Orthodox faith, which included Russians, Ukrainians, and Belarusians. That's why I say the use of that name in the patronymic suggests family origin in the lands east of Poland's modern borders. Those are the areas where you'd be more likely to run into a fellow who was "son of Antip." CHWAT, as Poles spell it, or KHVAT, as we might spell the Cyrillic version in Russian (which looks to us like XBAT), comes from a word used in both Polish and Russian to mean "a plucky, daring fellow." It probably started as a nickname for an ancestor who impressed people with his energy and courage. Unfortunately, the word is used in both Polish and Russian, so its use as a surname doesn't tell us much about the ethnicity of a family that went by it. I don't know how much good this does you, but I hope it clarifies things a little. Fred Hoffman Author, _Polish Surnames: Origins & Meanings_

Maybe the name changes were not on purpose at the immigration purposes, but there were changes. For example: My grandmother and her two sons were shown on three separate Ellis Island manifests out of Hamburg. The first two show that they were "scratched" for some reason and did not arrive in New York. Each of the three manifests had the surname spelled differently; and NONE of the spellings was correct. Each of them were spelled the way they SOUNDED in English. I have other examples in my family as well. Names WERE changed. Jerry Lock Haven, PA Detroit MI On Feb 16, 2009, at 10:21 AM, C. Bukoski wrote: > > Hi Gloria, > > May I ask what your source is for the childrens' names, dates, and > places of birth? Do you have actual baptismal certificates? > > Regarding the changing of family names at immigration, that is a > myth. Immigration was pretty big business at the turn of the 20th > century. Immigrants travelled with passports which would have their > names spelled out (though not in English) and the translators were > available at the ports of arrival (and probably departure). If > anything, names would have changed (for any variety of reasons) > after they settled in North America. > > Regards, > > Chris >> From: [email protected]> To: >> [email protected]> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:53:33 >> -0800> Subject: [PBS] Can someone help me?> > This is the first >> time I have written to this site but I have been receiving> emails >> from you for several months. I do not speak Polish, or Russian so >> I> am at a disadvantage. When I try to search in that area I just >> get lost.> > > > I am working on my husbands family's geneology. >> His family always said they> were Polish or White Russian but >> records that various members of the family> have put together >> simply say Russian. I have spend hours and hours> searching for the >> family but am totally at a loss where to go next. Can> someone help >> me? This is what I have of the family records. My husbands> >> grandfathers name was Joseph Antypowich.> > > > Joseph (Josef, >> Yusif) Antypowich (Antipowich, Antipovich, Antipowicz,> Antipovicz, >> Antipowitcz, Antepovitcz, Chwatt? Chavit??)> > Born in 1852 in >> Russia> > Married in 1879-1899 in Russia to> > > Julianna >> Kulchitsky (Kulchytsky,Kulezycki, Kulczycki) In Canada the family> >> knew her as Helen and most of them didn't realize that her name> > >> was Juianna until it> showed up on the 1906 and 1911 Canadian >> Census, and later again on a> baptisimal record for her son John.> >> > Julianna was born in> Russia in 1866-1868 ( Family stories say >> she was 15 when she got married)> > > > Living children of this >> marriage born in Russia before they immigrated to> Canada in 1904 >> were:> > > > 1. Simeon Chwatt Antipowicz born Aug 12, 1881 in >> Kovov, Odessa, Russia.> > 2. Cornella (Kornella) born 1883 in >> Russia.> 3. Victor born July 17, 1888 in Kovov, Torhaewacka >> (Torhaevaa??))> Russia . Victor married Lena Melashenko born March >> 22, 1892 in Petroka,> Harkow, Russia. She was the daughter of John >> F. Melashenko and Ywdokia> Hardenko. > 4. John born July 1891 in >> Torhaevaa, Russia.> 5. Michalena born in 1893 in Rusia> 6. Johanna >> born May 27, 1902 in Crimea, Russia> 7. Pertosi (Parask? Bertosi? - >> he was called Joe in Canada) born> in1903, in Russia.> > Note: They >> had several other children that died. One child, Olga, who was> >> born in 1892 died in 1904 before the family left. Truthfully they >> had> children almost regularly on a yearly basis. They lost at >> least 5 other> children from what the family records show.> > > > >> Family stories say that the family came to the port in Halifax in >> June of> 1904. I searched every ship record for the port of Halifax >> in 1904alifax> inin and found nothing. So then I checked passengers >> lists for Montreal,> Quebec in 1904, I did not find a family of 9 >> with any of the variations of> Antypowich on any of the ships. But >> I did find a family of 9 that arrived> in Montreal on July 12, 1904 >> on board the SS Halifax., which had boarded> passengers at >> Rotterdam and Havre. Normally I would not have even looked at> the >> group because the name was in no way Antypowich, it was Chivat.> >> However, they were listed as being "Poles" and there were 9 of them >> and I> instantly saw that some of the names were the same as the >> Antypowich family:> Simon, Victor, John, Michalena, Partose, and >> Johanna. Closer examination> showed that the fathers name was Yusif >> ( which I later learned is apparently> a Bulgarian form of Joseph); >> the mothers was hard to decipher but it ended> with "anna" and the >> other child was recorded as Codela which I reasoned> could be >> Cornella or possibly a form of it. The birth years of all the> >> family with exception of the two youngest children were off by a >> variety of> years. Remarkably though, all of the listed children >> were born in the same> chronological order as the Antypowich family >> I was looking for. This> family's destination was Winnipeg and I >> knew that was where the Antypowich> family went before they started >> out for Saskatchewan.> > > > I searched the 1904 and 1911 Canadian >> Census records and I did not find this> Chivat family again. I also >> looked at the records of people crossing from> Canada into the USA. >> I didn't find them. > > > > The family stories say that Joseph said >> that the family name had got changed> at immigration because of >> language differences. I always imagined that was> in Canada. But >> maybe it was in Russia or Rotterdam or maybe from Havre if> they >> boarded there??. Then just recently I got some copies of land> >> application from the Saskatchewan government and found Simon was >> recorded> as Simon Chwatt Antipowicz on his application for land.. >> None of the> existing family can remember anything about that name >> nor can they explain> it. From what I know about that generation of >> the family and from looking at> their hand writing, I do not think >> the family had any education but Simon> was the oldest child and I >> would think he might have known what his name was> back in Russia. >> Is it possible that the familys name was actually CHWATT> and it >> got changed at immigration to CHIVAT. But then where did the> >> Antipowicz name came from? Was it a patronomic? At the time the >> family> members were making application for land every one of them >> spelled their> Antypowich surname a different way.> > > > Another >> thing is that the remaining family members (all of whom are Joseph> >> Antypowich's grandchildren) are elderly and sometimes they just >> don't> remember but when they think about things they come up with >> little tidbits.> The last time I talked to John Antypowichs >> daughter she said her father said> that they recorded some of the >> children as being younger than they were,> because the tickets for >> passage were less expensive for younger children.> This could >> account for the difference in birth years for the Civat family-if> >> they happen to be the same family.> > > > I am at a dead end and if >> someone could help me I would so appreciate it.> > > > Gloria >> Antypowich> > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message > _________________________________________________________________ > Twice the fun—Share photos while you chat with Windows Live Messenger. > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/messenger.aspx > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Chris, I beg to differ. My family came through Ellis in 1898 and the names were changed even though they were written correctly. A 'z' got changed to an 's' in the case of Blazejewski. In some cases the ship passage document was incorrect. Jim On Feb 16, 2009, at 10:21 AM, C. Bukoski wrote: > > Hi Gloria, > > May I ask what your source is for the childrens' names, dates, and > places of birth? Do you have actual baptismal certificates? > > Regarding the changing of family names at immigration, that is a > myth. Immigration was pretty big business at the turn of the 20th > century. Immigrants travelled with passports which would have their > names spelled out (though not in English) and the translators were > available at the ports of arrival (and probably departure). If > anything, names would have changed (for any variety of reasons) > after they settled in North America. > > Regards, > > Chris >> [email protected]

Hi Gloria, May I ask what your source is for the childrens' names, dates, and places of birth? Do you have actual baptismal certificates? Regarding the changing of family names at immigration, that is a myth. Immigration was pretty big business at the turn of the 20th century. Immigrants travelled with passports which would have their names spelled out (though not in English) and the translators were available at the ports of arrival (and probably departure). If anything, names would have changed (for any variety of reasons) after they settled in North America. Regards, Chris > From: [email protected]> To: [email protected]> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:53:33 -0800> Subject: [PBS] Can someone help me?> > This is the first time I have written to this site but I have been receiving> emails from you for several months. I do not speak Polish, or Russian so I> am at a disadvantage. When I try to search in that area I just get lost.> > > > I am working on my husbands family's geneology. His family always said they> were Polish or White Russian but records that various members of the family> have put together simply say Russian. I have spend hours and hours> searching for the family but am totally at a loss where to go next. Can> someone help me? This is what I have of the family records. My husbands> grandfathers name was Joseph Antypowich.> > > > Joseph (Josef, Yusif) Antypowich (Antipowich, Antipovich, Antipowicz,> Antipovicz, Antipowitcz, Antepovitcz, Chwatt? Chavit??)> > Born in 1852 in Russia> > Married in 1879-1899 in Russia to> > > Julianna Kulchitsky (Kulchytsky,Kulezycki, Kulczycki) In Canada the family> knew her as Helen and most of them didn't realize that her name> > was Juianna until it> showed up on the 1906 and 1911 Canadian Census, and later again on a> baptisimal record for her son John.> > Julianna was born in> Russia in 1866-1868 ( Family stories say she was 15 when she got married)> > > > Living children of this marriage born in Russia before they immigrated to> Canada in 1904 were:> > > > 1. Simeon Chwatt Antipowicz born Aug 12, 1881 in Kovov, Odessa, Russia.> > 2. Cornella (Kornella) born 1883 in Russia.> 3. Victor born July 17, 1888 in Kovov, Torhaewacka (Torhaevaa??))> Russia . Victor married Lena Melashenko born March 22, 1892 in Petroka,> Harkow, Russia. She was the daughter of John F. Melashenko and Ywdokia> Hardenko. > 4. John born July 1891 in Torhaevaa, Russia.> 5. Michalena born in 1893 in Rusia> 6. Johanna born May 27, 1902 in Crimea, Russia> 7. Pertosi (Parask? Bertosi? - he was called Joe in Canada) born> in1903, in Russia.> > Note: They had several other children that died. One child, Olga, who was> born in 1892 died in 1904 before the family left. Truthfully they had> children almost regularly on a yearly basis. They lost at least 5 other> children from what the family records show.> > > > Family stories say that the family came to the port in Halifax in June of> 1904. I searched every ship record for the port of Halifax in 1904alifax> inin and found nothing. So then I checked passengers lists for Montreal,> Quebec in 1904, I did not find a family of 9 with any of the variations of> Antypowich on any of the ships. But I did find a family of 9 that arrived> in Montreal on July 12, 1904 on board the SS Halifax., which had boarded> passengers at Rotterdam and Havre. Normally I would not have even looked at> the group because the name was in no way Antypowich, it was Chivat.> However, they were listed as being "Poles" and there were 9 of them and I> instantly saw that some of the names were the same as the Antypowich family:> Simon, Victor, John, Michalena, Partose, and Johanna. Closer examination> showed that the fathers name was Yusif ( which I later learned is apparently> a Bulgarian form of Joseph); the mothers was hard to decipher but it ended> with "anna" and the other child was recorded as Codela which I reasoned> could be Cornella or possibly a form of it. The birth years of all the> family with exception of the two youngest children were off by a variety of> years. Remarkably though, all of the listed children were born in the same> chronological order as the Antypowich family I was looking for. This> family's destination was Winnipeg and I knew that was where the Antypowich> family went before they started out for Saskatchewan.> > > > I searched the 1904 and 1911 Canadian Census records and I did not find this> Chivat family again. I also looked at the records of people crossing from> Canada into the USA. I didn't find them. > > > > The family stories say that Joseph said that the family name had got changed> at immigration because of language differences. I always imagined that was> in Canada. But maybe it was in Russia or Rotterdam or maybe from Havre if> they boarded there??. Then just recently I got some copies of land> application from the Saskatchewan government and found Simon was recorded> as Simon Chwatt Antipowicz on his application for land.. None of the> existing family can remember anything about that name nor can they explain> it. From what I know about that generation of the family and from looking at> their hand writing, I do not think the family had any education but Simon> was the oldest child and I would think he might have known what his name was> back in Russia. Is it possible that the familys name was actually CHWATT> and it got changed at immigration to CHIVAT. But then where did the> Antipowicz name came from? Was it a patronomic? At the time the family> members were making application for land every one of them spelled their> Antypowich surname a different way.> > > > Another thing is that the remaining family members (all of whom are Joseph> Antypowich's grandchildren) are elderly and sometimes they just don't> remember but when they think about things they come up with little tidbits.> The last time I talked to John Antypowichs daughter she said her father said> that they recorded some of the children as being younger than they were,> because the tickets for passage were less expensive for younger children.> This could account for the difference in birth years for the Civat family-if> they happen to be the same family.> > > > I am at a dead end and if someone could help me I would so appreciate it.> > > > Gloria Antypowich> > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Twice the fun—Share photos while you chat with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/messenger.aspx

I think much of the dispute about names changing comes from a > misunderstanding about names. People's names weren't a legal part of their > identity back then as they are now. There weren't even civil birth > registrations, and if someone wanted to change their name they just started > spelling it different themselves. Maybe lawyers didn't have quite as strong > a lobby then. Now you have to go to court, publish so many times in the > paper etc.. Just because a name was spelled incorrectly at Ellis Island did > not constitute a legal name change. If the family chose to keep spelling it > that way after they were here maybe they just thought that was how it should > be spelled in English. The most "official" record of birth and birth name > is a baptismal record for the era before civil registration in the US. My > grandfather's surname was badly mispelled on his baptismal record, in a > church the family had been in for 20 years, and this was my German side with > a 4 letter surname! It was spelled "Bohe" rather than "Boll", but that > didn't change the family name. If I hadn't known the date from his death > record, I never would have found that baptism from an index or skimming the > record. Judy

Listers: The above surnames come up on the family search web site below. The information has been submitted by an LDS member after 1991 but there is no source information. Is anyone on this list searching any of the names or the village of Chorostkow, Husiatyn, Ternopil Oblast in Ukraine? http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/customsearchresults.asp?LDS=1&region=5&last_name=Broszczak&standardize=N Helen Ginn

My two cents: An Ancestor Texeira (pronounced Teshera) arrived NY in 1905- FINALLY found her- named spelled JESHARA. Found her is subsequent censuses: Teshera, Tashara, Tishera.....sometimes, I think it wa also a bit of "apathy" on the part of the "government employees"- just quicker to write what it sounds like, and perhaps, to them it didn't really "matter". -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gerald Cierpilowski Sent: February-16-09 7:36 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PBS] Name change "myth" Maybe the name changes were not on purpose at the immigration purposes, but there were changes. For example: My grandmother and her two sons were shown on three separate Ellis Island manifests out of Hamburg. The first two show that they were "scratched" for some reason and did not arrive in New York. Each of the three manifests had the surname spelled differently; and NONE of the spellings was correct. Each of them were spelled the way they SOUNDED in English. I have other examples in my family as well. Names WERE changed. Jerry Lock Haven, PA Detroit MI On Feb 16, 2009, at 10:21 AM, C. Bukoski wrote: > > Hi Gloria, > > May I ask what your source is for the childrens' names, dates, and > places of birth? Do you have actual baptismal certificates? > > Regarding the changing of family names at immigration, that is a > myth. Immigration was pretty big business at the turn of the 20th > century. Immigrants travelled with passports which would have their > names spelled out (though not in English) and the translators were > available at the ports of arrival (and probably departure). If > anything, names would have changed (for any variety of reasons) > after they settled in North America. > > Regards, > > Chris >> From: [email protected]> To: >> [email protected]> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:53:33 >> -0800> Subject: [PBS] Can someone help me?> > This is the first >> time I have written to this site but I have been receiving> emails >> from you for several months. I do not speak Polish, or Russian so >> I> am at a disadvantage. When I try to search in that area I just >> get lost.> > > > I am working on my husbands family's geneology. >> His family always said they> were Polish or White Russian but >> records that various members of the family> have put together >> simply say Russian. I have spend hours and hours> searching for the >> family but am totally at a loss where to go next. Can> someone help >> me? This is what I have of the family records. My husbands> >> grandfathers name was Joseph Antypowich.> > > > Joseph (Josef, >> Yusif) Antypowich (Antipowich, Antipovich, Antipowicz,> Antipovicz, >> Antipowitcz, Antepovitcz, Chwatt? Chavit??)> > Born in 1852 in >> Russia> > Married in 1879-1899 in Russia to> > > Julianna >> Kulchitsky (Kulchytsky,Kulezycki, Kulczycki) In Canada the family> >> knew her as Helen and most of them didn't realize that her name> > >> was Juianna until it> showed up on the 1906 and 1911 Canadian >> Census, and later again on a> baptisimal record for her son John.> >> > Julianna was born in> Russia in 1866-1868 ( Family stories say >> she was 15 when she got married)> > > > Living children of this >> marriage born in Russia before they immigrated to> Canada in 1904 >> were:> > > > 1. Simeon Chwatt Antipowicz born Aug 12, 1881 in >> Kovov, Odessa, Russia.> > 2. Cornella (Kornella) born 1883 in >> Russia.> 3. Victor born July 17, 1888 in Kovov, Torhaewacka >> (Torhaevaa??))> Russia . Victor married Lena Melashenko born March >> 22, 1892 in Petroka,> Harkow, Russia. She was the daughter of John >> F. Melashenko and Ywdokia> Hardenko. > 4. John born July 1891 in >> Torhaevaa, Russia.> 5. Michalena born in 1893 in Rusia> 6. Johanna >> born May 27, 1902 in Crimea, Russia> 7. Pertosi (Parask? Bertosi? - >> he was called Joe in Canada) born> in1903, in Russia.> > Note: They >> had several other children that died. One child, Olga, who was> >> born in 1892 died in 1904 before the family left. Truthfully they >> had> children almost regularly on a yearly basis. They lost at >> least 5 other> children from what the family records show.> > > > >> Family stories say that the family came to the port in Halifax in >> June of> 1904. I searched every ship record for the port of Halifax >> in 1904alifax> inin and found nothing. So then I checked passengers >> lists for Montreal,> Quebec in 1904, I did not find a family of 9 >> with any of the variations of> Antypowich on any of the ships. But >> I did find a family of 9 that arrived> in Montreal on July 12, 1904 >> on board the SS Halifax., which had boarded> passengers at >> Rotterdam and Havre. Normally I would not have even looked at> the >> group because the name was in no way Antypowich, it was Chivat.> >> However, they were listed as being "Poles" and there were 9 of them >> and I> instantly saw that some of the names were the same as the >> Antypowich family:> Simon, Victor, John, Michalena, Partose, and >> Johanna. Closer examination> showed that the fathers name was Yusif >> ( which I later learned is apparently> a Bulgarian form of Joseph); >> the mothers was hard to decipher but it ended> with "anna" and the >> other child was recorded as Codela which I reasoned> could be >> Cornella or possibly a form of it. The birth years of all the> >> family with exception of the two youngest children were off by a >> variety of> years. Remarkably though, all of the listed children >> were born in the same> chronological order as the Antypowich family >> I was looking for. This> family's destination was Winnipeg and I >> knew that was where the Antypowich> family went before they started >> out for Saskatchewan.> > > > I searched the 1904 and 1911 Canadian >> Census records and I did not find this> Chivat family again. I also >> looked at the records of people crossing from> Canada into the USA. >> I didn't find them. > > > > The family stories say that Joseph said >> that the family name had got changed> at immigration because of >> language differences. I always imagined that was> in Canada. But >> maybe it was in Russia or Rotterdam or maybe from Havre if> they >> boarded there??. Then just recently I got some copies of land> >> application from the Saskatchewan government and found Simon was >> recorded> as Simon Chwatt Antipowicz on his application for land.. >> None of the> existing family can remember anything about that name >> nor can they explain> it. From what I know about that generation of >> the family and from looking at> their hand writing, I do not think >> the family had any education but Simon> was the oldest child and I >> would think he might have known what his name was> back in Russia. >> Is it possible that the familys name was actually CHWATT> and it >> got changed at immigration to CHIVAT. But then where did the> >> Antipowicz name came from? Was it a patronomic? At the time the >> family> members were making application for land every one of them >> spelled their> Antypowich surname a different way.> > > > Another >> thing is that the remaining family members (all of whom are Joseph> >> Antypowich's grandchildren) are elderly and sometimes they just >> don't> remember but when they think about things they come up with >> little tidbits.> The last time I talked to John Antypowichs >> daughter she said her father said> that they recorded some of the >> children as being younger than they were,> because the tickets for >> passage were less expensive for younger children.> This could >> account for the difference in birth years for the Civat family-if> >> they happen to be the same family.> > > > I am at a dead end and if >> someone could help me I would so appreciate it.> > > > Gloria >> Antypowich> > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message > _________________________________________________________________ > Twice the fun-Share photos while you chat with Windows Live Messenger. > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/messenger.aspx > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is the first time I have written to this site but I have been receiving emails from you for several months. I do not speak Polish, or Russian so I am at a disadvantage. When I try to search in that area I just get lost. I am working on my husbands family's geneology. His family always said they were Polish or White Russian but records that various members of the family have put together simply say Russian. I have spend hours and hours searching for the family but am totally at a loss where to go next. Can someone help me? This is what I have of the family records. My husbands grandfathers name was Joseph Antypowich. Joseph (Josef, Yusif) Antypowich (Antipowich, Antipovich, Antipowicz, Antipovicz, Antipowitcz, Antepovitcz, Chwatt? Chavit??) Born in 1852 in Russia Married in 1879-1899 in Russia to Julianna Kulchitsky (Kulchytsky,Kulezycki, Kulczycki) In Canada the family knew her as Helen and most of them didn't realize that her name was Juianna until it showed up on the 1906 and 1911 Canadian Census, and later again on a baptisimal record for her son John. Julianna was born in Russia in 1866-1868 ( Family stories say she was 15 when she got married) Living children of this marriage born in Russia before they immigrated to Canada in 1904 were: 1. Simeon Chwatt Antipowicz born Aug 12, 1881 in Kovov, Odessa, Russia. 2. Cornella (Kornella) born 1883 in Russia. 3. Victor born July 17, 1888 in Kovov, Torhaewacka (Torhaevaa??)) Russia . Victor married Lena Melashenko born March 22, 1892 in Petroka, Harkow, Russia. She was the daughter of John F. Melashenko and Ywdokia Hardenko. 4. John born July 1891 in Torhaevaa, Russia. 5. Michalena born in 1893 in Rusia 6. Johanna born May 27, 1902 in Crimea, Russia 7. Pertosi (Parask? Bertosi? - he was called Joe in Canada) born in1903, in Russia. Note: They had several other children that died. One child, Olga, who was born in 1892 died in 1904 before the family left. Truthfully they had children almost regularly on a yearly basis. They lost at least 5 other children from what the family records show. Family stories say that the family came to the port in Halifax in June of 1904. I searched every ship record for the port of Halifax in 1904alifax inin and found nothing. So then I checked passengers lists for Montreal, Quebec in 1904, I did not find a family of 9 with any of the variations of Antypowich on any of the ships. But I did find a family of 9 that arrived in Montreal on July 12, 1904 on board the SS Halifax., which had boarded passengers at Rotterdam and Havre. Normally I would not have even looked at the group because the name was in no way Antypowich, it was Chivat. However, they were listed as being "Poles" and there were 9 of them and I instantly saw that some of the names were the same as the Antypowich family: Simon, Victor, John, Michalena, Partose, and Johanna. Closer examination showed that the fathers name was Yusif ( which I later learned is apparently a Bulgarian form of Joseph); the mothers was hard to decipher but it ended with "anna" and the other child was recorded as Codela which I reasoned could be Cornella or possibly a form of it. The birth years of all the family with exception of the two youngest children were off by a variety of years. Remarkably though, all of the listed children were born in the same chronological order as the Antypowich family I was looking for. This family's destination was Winnipeg and I knew that was where the Antypowich family went before they started out for Saskatchewan. I searched the 1904 and 1911 Canadian Census records and I did not find this Chivat family again. I also looked at the records of people crossing from Canada into the USA. I didn't find them. The family stories say that Joseph said that the family name had got changed at immigration because of language differences. I always imagined that was in Canada. But maybe it was in Russia or Rotterdam or maybe from Havre if they boarded there??. Then just recently I got some copies of land application from the Saskatchewan government and found Simon was recorded as Simon Chwatt Antipowicz on his application for land.. None of the existing family can remember anything about that name nor can they explain it. From what I know about that generation of the family and from looking at their hand writing, I do not think the family had any education but Simon was the oldest child and I would think he might have known what his name was back in Russia. Is it possible that the familys name was actually CHWATT and it got changed at immigration to CHIVAT. But then where did the Antipowicz name came from? Was it a patronomic? At the time the family members were making application for land every one of them spelled their Antypowich surname a different way. Another thing is that the remaining family members (all of whom are Joseph Antypowich's grandchildren) are elderly and sometimes they just don't remember but when they think about things they come up with little tidbits. The last time I talked to John Antypowichs daughter she said her father said that they recorded some of the children as being younger than they were, because the tickets for passage were less expensive for younger children. This could account for the difference in birth years for the Civat family-if they happen to be the same family. I am at a dead end and if someone could help me I would so appreciate it. Gloria Antypowich [email protected]

There is a St John's Greek Catholic Byzantine Church on Susquehanna St Susquehanna County Forest City PA. It is being covered by a priest in Jessup PA at the Holy Ghost Church. Here is a list of my own relatives and ancestors from NE PA and NJ. Let me know if there is a similarity. Lots of churches are closing, especially in small towns. Asterik ones were in Archives of Forest City PA* 19th century WIELGUS/WIELGORS-Kielce Poland/Russia; wife Sophie Brezvicki Bayonne NJ [Given spelling is said to be incorrect] BEZYVICKI-from Tarnow? BE_ZYSKI/BELZICKA/ BELZICKI/ BELZINKA/ BELZYCKA/ BELZYCKI/ BELZYCZKA/ BELZYCZKI/ BELZYKA SIC/ BELZYNSKA/ BELZYNSKI/ or BELZYSKA; Wojciech Siedlarczyk etc. b. Abt 1876 Krosnica Austria Polish 1900-SYDLAK/1907-SZYDLAK/SIEDLAR/SIEDLARCZYK-1730-19thCentury- SIEDLAK/SHEDLAK/SHEDLOCK; b.1880-JANCZAK of Krosnica Austria Poland; BLASCHEK/BLAZUSIAK; JANDURA of Mizerna; NADRATOVITZ; BRZEGOWSKI of Kluszkowce Village Tatra Mt. Poland; 1860s-BUDAJ; MUSIALTOWLEZOWA; STYCERYINSKA; WERESZCZYNSKA; DABROWSCY; OLEJARZ; KOWALCZYK; NOWAK; Koscielniak friend 1904 who went to Passaic NJ to Marya JANCZOCK 1730s-KOPKA; KRZYSTEK; PICHNIARCZYK; KLOPACZOWNA; SAS; 1800s-BATOR; PLUTA; KSYCKI of Budzin, Poland; *19th c.STRUS/STRUSZ/STR'O'S-Wroblik Krolewski-Szlacheckie; *18th century Austrian Cadestral listed: n.KRAW(i)EC; BURKA; STRUS *19th century-MOSKAL/MOSKALIK, MOSKALEWICZ; BURNATOWSKI [ska]; MOL~OCZNIK; MOLOCZNIK; *BEDNARCZYK/BEDNARIK/BEDNARICK/BENARICK-Pielnia Austria Polish; GGF Mike BEDNARIK Aka Michal BEDNARCZYK b.1853 Pielnia Austria Polish; GGM [Katarzyna BURNATOWSKI b.1854 /MOSAKLEWICZ /BEDNARIK 1900 Census Aka Benarick/Bednarczyk/ 3rd Spouse Philip VILCZYNZKI, Aka WILINSKI] Borrages, Mike Apr 1850-Where John BEDNARK boarded in Forest City PA Anna JURIN; JURAIN; DZURIN-Jul 1896 *Rose GOSZKOWSKI b. Aug 1883 Benarick, Katherine, Josephine *LENIO / LIPKO; GLAVICH, Elaine Stella GOSKOWSKI; GORDON, Rose Ann *Madeline GOSKOWSKI, GOREY, GORSZKOWSKI, LENIO, LIPKA; TIMSIC, TIMSEK; KONDZIOLA; MOSHER; PAVELCHAK; POLEDNAK; ZEDAR, Ruth Ann S Goskowski; ENGLISH IRISH ISLE OF MAN: REILLY REILY; STANLEY; WILLIAMS IN-LAWS of STRUS family-Forest City Susquehanna County PA: MOZELESKI; YAGRICH; WHITECAVAGE; SHUSTER/SHUSTAREEZ; SMITH; CALAFUT [Possibly Kalafut]; MEHALCO; KOLCUN; BABICH; GUTKOWSKI; SPENARD-[FRENCH]; If you known how to reach any of the following please write me: Peekaboobrat at yahoo dot com Thank you. PGSA 1997: 1830 46 Pawlak Zukowksi, Edward 2913 1 Pawlak Elizowa 1870 Rockwell, Nancy 3999 80 *Pawlak* Peilgrsymka, Galicia 1904 Faunda, Mary Lynn 9995 60 *Pawlak* Unknown Lewis, Josephine V. 3886 22 Pich *Sanok**, **Galicia*** 1890 Kemp, Betty Sipka 2999 83 *Pluta* Mieliec 1891 Fregeau, Bernice 3670 64 *Przybylski* Slupca, Marcenek Kazmier, Walter 1830 46 Struszko Zukowksi, Edward 2034 86 *Warchol* *Galicia*** Surowiak, Cindy Summary: BATOR - Krosnica Poland 1800s 19th century WIELGUS/WIELGORS-Kielce Poland/Russia; wife Sophie Brezvicki Bayonne NJ [Given spelling is said to be incorrect] BEZYVICKI-from Tarnow? BE_ZYSKI/BELZICKA/ BELZICKI/ BELZINKA/ BELZYCKA/ BELZYCKI/ BELZYCZKA/ BELZYCZKI/ BELZYKA SIC/ BELZYNSKA/ BELZYNSKI/ or BELZYSKA; BEDNARK - BERNARCHIK Forest City PA USA BORRAGES -Forest City PA USA Apr 1850- BLASCHEK - BLAZUSIAK Poland BRZEGOWSKI - Kluszkowce Village Tatra Mt. Poland BUDAJ - Krosnica Poland 1860s *BURKA - Austria Polish BURNATOWSKI - BURNATOWSKA - Pielnia Austria Polish DABROWSCY - Poland GORSZKOWSKI-GOSZKOWSKI -Brest *GOSKOWSKI Pol-Russia Aug 1883-GOREY GORDON Forest City PA GLAVICH - Slovak; Forest City PA USA - Forest City PA USA GUTKOWSKI - Poland; Missouri; Forest City PA USA JURIN - JURAIN - DZURIN-Slovak; Forest City PA USA Jul 1896 JANCZAK-JANCZOCK-YANSOCK-JANCEAK-Krosnica Austria Polish 1880 JANDURA - Mizerna Poland KOWALCZYK - Krosnica Poland; Passaic NJ USA 1904 KOSCIELNIAK - Krosnica Poland; Passaic NJ USA 1904 KOPKA - Krosnica Poland 1730s KRZYSTEK - Krosnica Poland 1730s KLOPACZOWNA - Krosnica Poland KSYCKI - Budzin, Poland KONDZIOLA - Forest City PA USA KRAWEC - KRAWIEC - Austria Polish *LENIO - Pielnia Austria Polish; Forest City PA USA LIPKO- LIPKA-Slovak or Poland; Forest City PA USA MUSIALTOWLEZOWA - Poland MOL~OCZNIK-MOLOCZNIK- Pielnia Austria Polish Forest City PA US-19th c. MOSHER - Forest City PA USA MOZELESKI - Poland; Forest City PA USA *MOSKALEWICZ-- MOSKALIK-Pielnia Polish Austria19th c NADRATOVITZ - Poland *Nadzak from Wroblik NOWAK - NOVAK - Krosnica Poland; Passaic NJ USA 1904 OLEJARZ - Krosnica Poland; Passaic NJ USA 1904 PAVELCHAK Slovak -- Forest City PA USA PAWLAK - Peilgrsymka Galicia Austria Polish 1870-1904 POLEDNAK- Forest City PA USA PICH - Sanok Galicia 1890 PSTRAK Austria Polish PICHNIARCZYK - Krosnica Poland PLUTA - Krosnica Galicia Polish Austria 1891 PRYZYBYLSKI - Slupca, Marcenek SAS - Krosnica Poland SYDLAK - SZYDLAK –Passaic NJ Carbondale PA USA 1900-1907 SIEDLAK-SHEDLAK-SHEDLOCK - Cadiz Jefferson County OH STRUSZKO - Galicia-Sanok Polish Austria STRUS’ STRUSZ-STR'O'S-Wroblik Krolewski-Szlacheckie Sanok-19th c. 18th c.-Austrian Cadestral – STRUS to Forest City PA USA SIWIK- Wola Sekowa SHUSTER - SHUSTAREEZ- Croatia Slovak Forest City PA USA STYCERYINSKA - Poland TIMSIC-TIMSEK - Slovak; Bukowsko Poland; Forest City PA USA VILCZYNZKI-WILINSKI-WOLINSKY-VILCHUSKI- Russia/Pol-1865-Forest City PA WARCHOL - Galicia-Sanok Polish Austria WERESZCZYNSKA - Poland WHITECAVAGE - Forest City PA USA YAGRICH - Poland; Forest City PA USA ZEDAR - Forest City PA US --------------------------------------------------Married family SPENARD - France; Forest City PA USA REILLY- REILY- Ireland; Isle of Man; Passiac, NJ USA STANLEY - Ireland; Island of MAN; Passiac, NJ USA WILLIAMS – Scotland, Ireland; or Island of MAN SMITH - Forest City PA USA Thank you, Joan WIELGUS [email protected]

Jim, Very nice explanation -- that's my language! Thanks. Michelle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Onyschuk" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [PBS] czarnokonce wielkie LDS films >A digital copy is an electronic picture. So, if you take a picture of a > document with a digital camera, you are making a digital copy. Similarly, > if > you scan a picture or document, you are making a digital copy. Think of a > scanner as an upside-down fixed camera. > > Jim Onyschuk > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]m] On Behalf Of Michelle > Johnson > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 8:27 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PBS] czarnokonce wielkie LDS films > > How do you take "digital copies"? I've heard of other people doing this. > Briefly, what's involved? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bronwyn Klimach" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 6:34 PM > Subject: Re: [PBS] czarnokonce wielkie LDS films > > >> Yes Michelle, that is what I meant. >> Even now my Witkowskis catch me out by being so near the start of an >> index >> ;-) >> I also found myself endlessly confusing Witkowski with Wisniewski when >> written in Cyrillic... >> I'm not sure if our FHC offers freeby copies onto usb, but they happily >> allow me to take digital photos. The method you describe should end up >> with >> much clearer images. I have rather a lot of Cyrillic images quietly >> awaiting my attention!! >> Bron. >> On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 11:19 PM, Michelle Johnson >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Hi Bronwyn, >>> >>> Thanks for the advice. Yes, that was my plan - to take images of all >>> references to my name and "study" them at home. I discovered something >>> helpful at my FH Library - they now have the capability to let you use a >>> flash drive to get an image of the page(s) you want instead of paper >>> copies >>> making it so easy to get even "maybe's". So for anyone new, bring a >>> flash >>> drive with you - there is no charge. When you say "Cyrillic >>> alphabetical >>> order", I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean, for instance, the Z is >>> the >>> 9th letter of their alphabet so that I wouldn't go to the end of the >>> index >>> looking for Z's assuming there were none? Thanks again, and good luck to >>> you >>> too. >>> >>> Michelle >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Bronwyn Klimach" <[email protected]> >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:17 AM >>> Subject: Re: [PBS] czarnokonce wielkie LDS films >>> >>> >>> > Michelle, >>> > It sounds as though you are making a good start. If possible take >>> > images >>> > of >>> > all the entries that show your names of interest and later you can >>> > have > >>> > a >>> > leisurely sort out... >>> > The further away from 1868 your records are (i.e. later years) the >>> > better >>> > chances that in the actual record the name of the person the record is >>> > about >>> > will be recorded in both Cyrillic and Polish, which can be a huge >>> > help. >>> > Polish genealogy is meant to be a challenge, hence I have put in much >>> more >>> > time on my husband's Polish family than my own German ancestry :-Z >>> > Michelle do also make sure you make a list of you names in Cyrillic >>> > alphabetical order so you do not miss anyone. Also watch very >>> > carefully >>> > for >>> > names with spelling variants. Szymanczyk and Symanczyk may be the >>> > same >>> > family but in Cyrillic records these names start with a completely >>> > different >>> > (and non-adjacent) letter. >>> > Enjoy! >>> > Bronwyn. >>> > On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Michelle Johnson >>> > <[email protected]>wrote: >>> > >>> >> Margaret, >>> >> >>> >> I'm in the same position linguistically. I'm about to check LDS film >>> >> also. >>> >> I've asked some people to translate my names of interest into Russian >>> >> (handwritten because the film is handwritten). Try to get several >>> >> examples. >>> >> There should be an index of names on the film (at the end of each >>> >> area >>> so >>> >> there may be several indexes on a roll of film). My plan is to look >>> >> at >>> >> the >>> >> index first hoping to identify the name there - and if I recall, the >>> >> index >>> >> provides a page number or some way to get to the page the text/event >>> >> about >>> >> the name is on. Then I'll copy that page and find someone to >>> >> translate >>> >> it. >>> >> I'm pretty sure time frame and location determine the language (the >>> >> film >>> >> will specify the language it is written in). The film I'm ordering >>> >> is >>> in >>> >> Polish or Latin until 1868 and in Russian after that. My interest is >>> >> 1886-ish, so my challenge is identifying my name in Russian on an >>> >> index. >>> >> A >>> >> snag is: I expect to get pages on people who are not related , but >>> >> then >>> >> again, one might be mine - but, hey, nobody said Polish genealogy is >>> >> easy! >>> >> Hope this helps and if I'm incorrect about any of this information, I >>> >> hope >>> >> the good people on this site straighten things out for us. >>> >> >>> >> Good luck, >>> >> Michelle >>> >> >>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >> From: "margaret walker" <[email protected]> >>> >> To: "Poland Border Surnames posting msgs" >>> >> <[email protected]> >>> >> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 2:08 AM >>> >> Subject: [PBS] czarnokonce wielkie LDS films >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> was wondering if there was anyone out there who has already looked at >>> >> film >>> >> 2350654 for Greek Catholic Church Czarnokonce Wielkie/Velykyi >>> >> Chornokintsi >>> >> >>> >> I hope to order the film on monday when the family history centre >>> >> reopens. >>> >> >>> >> I was wondering if anyone has had experience looking at this film in >>> >> particular so that I could have an idea of what to expect. (Someone >>> told >>> >> me >>> >> to take a magnifing glass with me) Says text will be in Latin, >>> >> Polish, >>> >> Ukrainian & Russian. I have NO experience looking/reading films. I >>> have >>> >> had a look at the Halgal site. But still would like to know what to >>> >> expect. >>> >> Are they all handwritten records? or just the parts that is need to >>> >> complete >>> >> a form?? Is there alot of mixture of languages? I figure latin >>> >> should >>> be >>> >> easy enough to figure out ..or slightly recognize a family name. I'm >>> >> just >>> >> worried I'll get there & I won't be able get anything out of it! >>> >> Thank you..... >>> >> >>> >> Margaret >>> >> _________________________________________________________________ >>> >> The new Windows Live Messenger. You don't want to miss this. >>> >> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/messenger.aspx >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------- >>> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------- >>> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >>> > >>> > ------------------------------- >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Some Family History Centers now have viewers, which will scan the documents you want and email them to you ... still a digitel copy. :) Tina On 2/15/09, Michelle Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > Jim, > > Very nice explanation -- that's my language! Thanks. > > Michelle > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Onyschuk" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 12:29 PM > Subject: Re: [PBS] czarnokonce wielkie LDS films > > > >A digital copy is an electronic picture. So, if you take a picture of a > > document with a digital camera, you are making a digital copy. Similarly, > > if > > you scan a picture or document, you are making a digital copy. Think of a > > scanner as an upside-down fixed camera. > > > > Jim Onyschuk > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michelle > > Johnson > > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 8:27 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PBS] czarnokonce wielkie LDS films > > > > How do you take "digital copies"? I've heard of other people doing this. > > Briefly, what's involved? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bronwyn Klimach" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 6:34 PM > > Subject: Re: [PBS] czarnokonce wielkie LDS films > > > > > >> Yes Michelle, that is what I meant. > >> Even now my Witkowskis catch me out by being so near the start of an > >> index > >> ;-) > >> I also found myself endlessly confusing Witkowski with Wisniewski when > >> written in Cyrillic... > >> I'm not sure if our FHC offers freeby copies onto usb, but they happily > >> allow me to take digital photos. The method you describe should end up > >> with > >> much clearer images. I have rather a lot of Cyrillic images quietly > >> awaiting my attention!! > >> Bron. > >> On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 11:19 PM, Michelle Johnson > >> <[email protected]>wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Bronwyn, > >>> > >>> Thanks for the advice. Yes, that was my plan - to take images of all > >>> references to my name and "study" them at home. I discovered something > >>> helpful at my FH Library - they now have the capability to let you use > a > >>> flash drive to get an image of the page(s) you want instead of paper > >>> copies > >>> making it so easy to get even "maybe's". So for anyone new, bring a > >>> flash > >>> drive with you - there is no charge. When you say "Cyrillic > >>> alphabetical > >>> order", I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean, for instance, the Z is > >>> the > >>> 9th letter of their alphabet so that I wouldn't go to the end of the > >>> index > >>> looking for Z's assuming there were none? Thanks again, and good luck > to > >>> you > >>> too. > >>> > >>> Michelle > >>> > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Bronwyn Klimach" <[email protected]> > >>> To: <[email protected]> > >>> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:17 AM > >>> Subject: Re: [PBS] czarnokonce wielkie LDS films > >>> > >>> > >>> > Michelle, > >>> > It sounds as though you are making a good start. If possible take > >>> > images > >>> > of > >>> > all the entries that show your names of interest and later you can > >>> > have > > > >>> > a > >>> > leisurely sort out... > >>> > The further away from 1868 your records are (i.e. later years) the > >>> > better > >>> > chances that in the actual record the name of the person the record > is > >>> > about > >>> > will be recorded in both Cyrillic and Polish, which can be a huge > >>> > help. > >>> > Polish genealogy is meant to be a challenge, hence I have put in much > >>> more > >>> > time on my husband's Polish family than my own German ancestry :-Z > >>> > Michelle do also make sure you make a list of you names in Cyrillic > >>> > alphabetical order so you do not miss anyone. Also watch very > >>> > carefully > >>> > for > >>> > names with spelling variants. Szymanczyk and Symanczyk may be the > >>> > same > >>> > family but in Cyrillic records these names start with a completely > >>> > different > >>> > (and non-adjacent) letter. > >>> > Enjoy! > >>> > Bronwyn. > >>> > On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Michelle Johnson > >>> > <[email protected]>wrote: > >>> > > >>> >> Margaret, > >>> >> > >>> >> I'm in the same position linguistically. I'm about to check LDS > film > >>> >> also. > >>> >> I've asked some people to translate my names of interest into > Russian > >>> >> (handwritten because the film is handwritten). Try to get several > >>> >> examples. > >>> >> There should be an index of names on the film (at the end of each > >>> >> area > >>> so > >>> >> there may be several indexes on a roll of film). My plan is to look > >>> >> at > >>> >> the > >>> >> index first hoping to identify the name there - and if I recall, the > >>> >> index > >>> >> provides a page number or some way to get to the page the text/event > >>> >> about > >>> >> the name is on. Then I'll copy that page and find someone to > >>> >> translate > >>> >> it. > >>> >> I'm pretty sure time frame and location determine the language (the > >>> >> film > >>> >> will specify the language it is written in). The film I'm ordering > >>> >> is > >>> in > >>> >> Polish or Latin until 1868 and in Russian after that. My interest > is > >>> >> 1886-ish, so my challenge is identifying my name in Russian on an > >>> >> index. > >>> >> A > >>> >> snag is: I expect to get pages on people who are not related , but > >>> >> then > >>> >> again, one might be mine - but, hey, nobody said Polish genealogy is > >>> >> easy! > >>> >> Hope this helps and if I'm incorrect about any of this information, > I > >>> >> hope > >>> >> the good people on this site straighten things out for us. > >>> >> > >>> >> Good luck, > >>> >> Michelle > >>> >> > >>> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> >> From: "margaret walker" <[email protected]> > >>> >> To: "Poland Border Surnames posting msgs" > >>> >> <[email protected]> > >>> >> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 2:08 AM > >>> >> Subject: [PBS] czarnokonce wielkie LDS films > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> was wondering if there was anyone out there who has already looked > at > >>> >> film > >>> >> 2350654 for Greek Catholic Church Czarnokonce Wielkie/Velykyi > >>> >> Chornokintsi > >>> >> > >>> >> I hope to order the film on monday when the family history centre > >>> >> reopens. > >>> >> > >>> >> I was wondering if anyone has had experience looking at this film in > >>> >> particular so that I could have an idea of what to expect. (Someone > >>> told > >>> >> me > >>> >> to take a magnifing glass with me) Says text will be in Latin, > >>> >> Polish, > >>> >> Ukrainian & Russian. I have NO experience looking/reading films. I > >>> have > >>> >> had a look at the Halgal site. But still would like to know what to > >>> >> expect. > >>> >> Are they all handwritten records? or just the parts that is need to > >>> >> complete > >>> >> a form?? Is there alot of mixture of languages? I figure latin > >>> >> should > >>> be > >>> >> easy enough to figure out ..or slightly recognize a family > name. I'm > >>> >> just > >>> >> worried I'll get there & I won't be able get anything out of it! > >>> >> Thank you..... > >>> >> > >>> >> Margaret > >>> >> _________________________________________________________________ > >>> >> The new Windows Live Messenger. You don't want to miss this. > >>> >> > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/messenger.aspx > >>> >> > >>> >> ------------------------------- > >>> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> >> [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > >>> >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> ------------------------------- > >>> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> >> [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > >>> >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> >> > >>> > > >>> > ------------------------------- > >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > >>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >