I suppose what I am asking may be fairly obvious to researchers who have been involved for years in this art, so excuse my naiveté. I have been researching a Slesin film regarding my Chrapkowski and Borzych families from the 1830's through 1866. What I have been doing is recording all such named people and their spouses, knowing full well that some are not related, others may be distantly related and still others are my ancestors. After I am finished with this film, I would like to scan an earlier film in the same manner and, hopefully, then try and put "like families" together in an attempt to patch together all of my ancestors. That seems to be everyone's task, I would imagine. My complication is simply that the records are in Polish and I, like many of you, do not speak, read or write the language; so, I am getting a bit of a linguistic schooling out of all of this work as well. I find it fascinating, but my inability to understand the language also presents another issue, and that is, if this search is difficult for me, is it equally, or maybe to a lessor degree, difficult for the researhers / transcribers, such as folks working on the Poznan Project, to understand what the record is saying? Recently, and I don't have the example here in front of me, but I found a marriage record on the film at the FHC. Since it fell within the parameters of the Poznan Project, I checked that record with the project to see if my interpretation of what was "hand written by the Priest at the time" was in sync with the translator from the Poznan Project. Well, what I interpreted as a capital "B" turned out, on the Poznan Project to be a "K". What I thought was a "z", was an "r". If it was not for the Poznan project, I would have had the name completely wrong and future research in that direction would have been thwarted. Then, I thought, how do I know that the Translator for the Poznan Project was correct? Should I just accept the fact that since I am ignorant of all language Polish, I should simply say, "I have no other choice. Go with it."? Which, I indeed did do. Then I came across a record of a gentleman whose first name was Felix. It seems to me to be definitely Felix. I have a relative with the name Felican and another named Florian, (I think the family was into alliteration) none of which are on the Poznan Project. So, I am wondering if there is a web site that lists all Polish "Given Names" which one might compare a record to. I began reading the Univ. of Pitts. Polish Grammar site and, while a bit confusing, it does help to understand combinations of letters used in the Polish language. So, if something looks like a "SJCP" you might try a "SZCZ" instead. But to know whether or not a particular name "fits" the language would be a boost; if Poles never used the name Felix for example, then you would know, no matter what it looked like, that Felix was not the name. (I only use Felix here as an example. I do know that at least one Pole used the name Felix because he was my Twice Great Granddad.) Thank you for any assistance you may have in this regard, John

John, The first and most important aspect of your research is transliteration and after that comes translation. In order to transliterate, namely, copy the information into your database, you need to become familiar with the handwriting. That comes with practice and patience. You need to look at a lot of records written by the same person and learn how that person scribes the various letters of the alphabet. You will soon be able to differentiate an "r" from a "z" or a "T" with an "F", an "I" and a "J". And when you have problems, then post a good scan of the entire page for us to look at and help you out with it. You will in time learn the typical European script. Roman John Ruther wrote: > I suppose what I am asking may be fairly obvious to researchers who > have been involved for years in this art, so excuse my naiveté. I > have been researching a Slesin film regarding my Chrapkowski and > Borzych families from the 1830's through 1866. What I have been doing > is recording all such named people and their spouses, knowing full > well that some are not related, others may be distantly related and > still others are my ancestors. After I am finished with this film, I > would like to scan an earlier film in the same manner and, hopefully, > then try and put "like families" together in an attempt to patch > together all of my ancestors. That seems to be everyone's task, I > would imagine. > > My complication is simply that the records are in Polish and I, like > many of you, do not speak, read or write the language; so, I am > getting a bit of a linguistic schooling out of all of this work as > well. I find it fascinating, but my inability to understand the > language also presents another issue, and that is, if this search is > difficult for me, is it equally, or maybe to a lessor degree, > difficult for the researhers / transcribers, such as folks working on > the Poznan Project, to understand what the record is saying? > > Recently, and I don't have the example here in front of me, but I > found a marriage record on the film at the FHC. Since it fell within > the parameters of the Poznan Project, I checked that record with the > project to see if my interpretation of what was "hand written by the > Priest at the time" was in sync with the translator from the Poznan > Project. Well, what I interpreted as a capital "B" turned out, on the > Poznan Project to be a "K". What I thought was a "z", was an "r". If > it was not for the Poznan project, I would have had the name > completely wrong and future research in that direction would have > been thwarted. > > Then, I thought, how do I know that the Translator for the Poznan > Project was correct? Should I just accept the fact that since I am > ignorant of all language Polish, I should simply say, "I have no > other choice. Go with it."? Which, I indeed did do. > > Then I came across a record of a gentleman whose first name was > Felix. It seems to me to be definitely Felix. I have a relative with > the name Felican and another named Florian, (I think the family was > into alliteration) none of which are on the Poznan Project. So, I am > wondering if there is a web site that lists all Polish "Given Names" > which one might compare a record to. > > I began reading the Univ. of Pitts. Polish Grammar site and, while a > bit confusing, it does help to understand combinations of letters > used in the Polish language. So, if something looks like a "SJCP" you > might try a "SZCZ" instead. But to know whether or not a particular > name "fits" the language would be a boost; if Poles never used the > name Felix for example, then you would know, no matter what it looked > like, that Felix was not the name. (I only use Felix here as an > example. I do know that at least one Pole used the name Felix because > he was my Twice Great Granddad.) > > Thank you for any assistance you may have in this regard, > > John ********************************* Need to contact the list > manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- Discussion of Polish food, > culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the > discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our > Polish roots. ---------------------------------- Browse the list's > archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots Search the > list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please > send an email to POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message >

John, I just wanted to add that it takes practice - many have already commented on that. Interestingly, to me, anyway, is that I prefer to read old "Polish" records (in Latin, Polish etc) rather than modern day Polish script. Handwriting in Poland (as in the U.S.) has changed considerably in the past century and I have great difficulty transcribing today's Polish. Debbie John Ruther wrote: > I suppose what I am asking may be fairly obvious to researchers who have been involved for years in this art, so excuse my naiveté. I have been researching a Slesin film regarding my Chrapkowski and Borzych families from the 1830's through 1866. What I have been doing is recording all such named people and their spouses, knowing full well that some are not related, others may be distantly related and still others are my ancestors. After I am finished with this film, I would like to scan an earlier film in the same manner and, hopefully, then try and put "like families" together in an attempt to patch together all of my ancestors. That seems to be everyone's task, I would imagine. > > My complication is simply that the records are in Polish and I, like many of you, do not speak, read or write the language; so, I am getting a bit of a linguistic schooling out of all of this work as well. I find it fascinating, but my inability to understand the language also presents another issue, and that is, if this search is difficult for me, is it equally, or maybe to a lessor degree, difficult for the researhers / transcribers, such as folks working on the Poznan Project, to understand what the record is saying? > > Recently, and I don't have the example here in front of me, but I found a marriage record on the film at the FHC. Since it fell within the parameters of the Poznan Project, I checked that record with the project to see if my interpretation of what was "hand written by the Priest at the time" was in sync with the translator from the Poznan Project. Well, what I interpreted as a capital "B" turned out, on the Poznan Project to be a "K". What I thought was a "z", was an "r". If it was not for the Poznan project, I would have had the name completely wrong and future research in that direction would have been thwarted. > > Then, I thought, how do I know that the Translator for the Poznan Project was correct? Should I just accept the fact that since I am ignorant of all language Polish, I should simply say, "I have no other choice. Go with it."? Which, I indeed did do. > > Then I came across a record of a gentleman whose first name was Felix. It seems to me to be definitely Felix. I have a relative with the name Felican and another named Florian, (I think the family was into alliteration) none of which are on the Poznan Project. So, I am wondering if there is a web site that lists all Polish "Given Names" which one might compare a record to. > > I began reading the Univ. of Pitts. Polish Grammar site and, while a bit confusing, it does help to understand combinations of letters used in the Polish language. So, if something looks like a "SJCP" you might try a "SZCZ" instead. But to know whether or not a particular name "fits" the language would be a boost; if Poles never used the name Felix for example, then you would know, no matter what it looked like, that Felix was not the name. (I only use Felix here as an example. I do know that at least one Pole used the name Felix because he was my Twice Great Granddad.) > > Thank you for any assistance you may have in this regard, > > John >

John, This could help with what you are looking for: http://www.behindthename.com/nmc/pol.php I transcribed records written in German; I believe a 'native' German has since checked them (and no doubt found some howlers...) Certainly there are mistakes; the basic aim of such projects is to hope to direct you to where you can find further information. Of course once you are working with your own family and start to recognise names and places it eventually becomes so much easier to read the script, even the Polish narrative entries! Happy hunting, Bronwyn. On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 6:14 PM, John Ruther <chicagojohn@comcast.net>wrote: > I suppose what I am asking may be fairly obvious to researchers who have > been involved for years in this art, so excuse my naiveté. I have been > researching a Slesin film regarding my Chrapkowski and Borzych families from > the 1830's through 1866. What I have been doing is recording all such named > people and their spouses, knowing full well that some are not related, > others may be distantly related and still others are my ancestors. After I > am finished with this film, I would like to scan an earlier film in the same > manner and, hopefully, then try and put "like families" together in an > attempt to patch together all of my ancestors. That seems to be everyone's > task, I would imagine. > > My complication is simply that the records are in Polish and I, like many > of you, do not speak, read or write the language; so, I am getting a bit of > a linguistic schooling out of all of this work as well. I find it > fascinating, but my inability to understand the language also presents > another issue, and that is, if this search is difficult for me, is it > equally, or maybe to a lessor degree, difficult for the researhers / > transcribers, such as folks working on the Poznan Project, to understand > what the record is saying? > > Recently, and I don't have the example here in front of me, but I found a > marriage record on the film at the FHC. Since it fell within the parameters > of the Poznan Project, I checked that record with the project to see if my > interpretation of what was "hand written by the Priest at the time" was in > sync with the translator from the Poznan Project. Well, what I interpreted > as a capital "B" turned out, on the Poznan Project to be a "K". What I > thought was a "z", was an "r". If it was not for the Poznan project, I would > have had the name completely wrong and future research in that direction > would have been thwarted. > > Then, I thought, how do I know that the Translator for the Poznan Project > was correct? Should I just accept the fact that since I am ignorant of all > language Polish, I should simply say, "I have no other choice. Go with it."? > Which, I indeed did do. > > Then I came across a record of a gentleman whose first name was Felix. It > seems to me to be definitely Felix. I have a relative with the name Felican > and another named Florian, (I think the family was into alliteration) none > of which are on the Poznan Project. So, I am wondering if there is a web > site that lists all Polish "Given Names" which one might compare a record > to. > > I began reading the Univ. of Pitts. Polish Grammar site and, while a bit > confusing, it does help to understand combinations of letters used in the > Polish language. So, if something looks like a "SJCP" you might try a "SZCZ" > instead. But to know whether or not a particular name "fits" the language > would be a boost; if Poles never used the name Felix for example, then you > would know, no matter what it looked like, that Felix was not the name. (I > only use Felix here as an example. I do know that at least one Pole used the > name Felix because he was my Twice Great Granddad.) > > Thank you for any assistance you may have in this regard, > > John > *********************************

Original message from "John Ruther" <chicagojohn@comcast.net>: >snipped> > My complication is simply that the records are in Polish and I, like many of you, do not speak, read or write the language; so, I am getting a bit of a linguistic schooling out of all of this work as well. I find it fascinating, but my inability to understand the language also presents another issue, John: The simple answer: you need a book--specifically IN THEIR WORDS: vol. 1 Polish by Hoffman and Shea. Go to: http://www.langline.com You won't be able to read it in one sitting, but that is not the purpose. It is a teaching tool and a great reference. Personally, I don't think I would have made the progress I have without Fred's books on Polish & Russian. A long time ago in a galaxy far, far way, Fred helped me correct an error on a passenger listing for a native village and I was off and running. (Fred, remember Prodigy!) I admire your ambition, but it will take a while to accomplish the task you have set for yourself. PolishDragon@att.net