Fred, This wasn't too lengthy for me. I appreciate you taking the time. I recently realized (on my own!) that when a word (name) ends in "nski/nska" that the 'n' has a diacritical mark! And I was told by a Polish visitor that whenever 's' is followed by 'i' the 's' is pronounced as an English "sh"; as in "sie~/shee en" (nasal 'n') Of course now the task will be for me to remember your lesson and put it into use. Debbie Fred Hoffman wrote: > Hi, > > Debbie Greenlee wrote: > >> Question from a non-Polish speaking Pole. >> I thought the letter "I" in Polish was >> pronounced in English as ee. >> Therefore I thought Ste;pniak (Ste~pniak) was >> pronounced "STEMP neeyak" >> or did I miss a Polish pronunciation rule? > > Good question! I wish I could give you a simple > answer, but it's a little complicated -- unless > you grow up speaking Polish. Then it's the most > obvious thing in the world. > > In Polish, the vowel I serves a double purpose. > When it's a true vowel, it is pronounced roughly > "ee." But it also serves to indicate > palatalization of a preceding consonant. > Palatalization is a kind of softening of a > consonant, when more of the tongue arches up close > to the hard palate. It's not a linguistic feature > that's terribly prominent in English, but it's > very important in the Slavic languages, including > Polish. (We have it in English, too, however. It > explains, for instance, why most people turn "Got > you!" into "Gotcha!" The influence of the > following Y sound modifies the T into its > palatalized counterpart, which we spell CH.) > > In the name STEPNIAK, the I is not really > pronounced as a distinct E sound, because there's > already a vowel in that second syllable, the A. In > that position, the I is palatalizing the preceding > N. So instead of "STEMP-nee-yock," three syllables > with a distinct "ee" sound, it's more like > "STEMP-n'yock," just two syllables, with a slight > Y sound after the N. The I is not pronounced as > "ee," it only serves to soften the N -- which, in > practical terms, comes down to producing a kind of > Y sound after the N, like what we hear in "onion." > > With some consonants, the distinction is pretty > subtle. There's not a huge difference between > palatalized B and plain B. If you say the verbs > _bic~_ (to beat) and _byc~_ (to be), the vowel is > different, but the B itself doesn't seem to change > a whole lot. With some other consonants, the > change is more obvious. Thus a palatalized T turns > into CI, a D becomes DZI, and so on. > > Palatalization is why the name of the city Poznan~ > doesn't sound like "POZE-nahn," but "POZE-nine." > The palatalization of the final N not only softens > it, but also affects the pronunciation of the A. > In that case, the palatalization is indicated with > an accent over the N. But notice, as soon as you > add an ending with a vowel, the -I- creeps in > there: Poznania, Poznaniu. With the letters C~, > N~, S~, and Z~, the accent is there only if the > palatalized letter is not followed by a vowel. As > soon as vowel enters the mix, the accent > disappears and is replaced by I. > > Sometimes the I serves both purposes at once. Thus > in the place name Limanowa, the I not only > indicates a palatalized L, it also gives that > syllable its vowel: "lee-mah-NO-vah." > Incidentally, here is where the distinction > between slash-L and plain L comes in. Slash-L can > never be followed by I in native Polish words > because Poles don't combine the "w" sound of > slash-L with the "ee" sound of the vowel I. You > can have L~Y together and you can have LI > together, but you can never have L~I or LY. It's > just one of the characteristics of the language. > (Whereas in English, we have no trouble at all > following the "w" sound with an "ee," as in our > word "we," or following L with a short I, as in > "lid." But we're not Poles!) > > I'm kind of hesitant to go into this in much > detail, because it can get confusing very fast. I > may already have left you asking "What on earth is > he talking about?" But as a basic rule of thumb, > when you see the vowel I followed by a consonant, > pronounce it as "ee." When you see it followed by > a vowel, ditch the "ee" and make it a slight "y" > sound. So if you see a name such as STE~PNIK, it's > "STEMP-neek." But STE~PNIAK is "STEMP-n'yock." And > that little Y sound is pretty faint -- you may not > even hear it unless you're listening for it. It's > there, however, and it has to be there to > pronounce the words correctly. > > You might find the Pitt Polish language course's > explanations useful: > > http://polish.slavic.pitt.edu/firstyear/sounds.pdf > > Then again, maybe not. It's awfully hard to truly > "get" this unless you listen to native Poles speak > the language. After a while you start to catch on > to the rhythms and sound combinations. At that > point, you'll say "Of course that's how it is." if > you don't have a chance to hear a whole lot of > Polish spoken (as, for instance, in northcentral > Texas), it's going to have to be one of those > things you accept on faith. > > If anybody can explain this more clearly, by all > means, speak up! > > Fred >

Hi, Debbie Greenlee wrote: > I recently realized (on my own!) that when a > word (name) ends in > "nski/nska" that the 'n' has a diacritical mark! Good for you! I don't know how many thousand Polish surnames I had typed in before that finally dawned on me. > And I was told by a > Polish visitor that whenever 's' is followed by > 'i' the 's' is > pronounced as an English "sh"; as in "sie~/shee > en" (nasal 'n') Yes, because the combination _si_ indicates a palatalized S. So you take the basic S sound but raise more of the tongue toward the hard palate. It can't help but come out like a hissing "sh." Note that this sound is audibly different from the other Polish "sh," the one spelled SZ. That one is "chunkier" sounding. To a Pole the distinction is easy to hear because they're conditioned to recognize it. To non-Poles, SI and SZ sound the same. When you start hearing the difference, you know you're on your way to grasping the language. As for pronouncing _sie~_, I still don't really feel I have that one nailed down. If you go by the books, it should sound like "shen" with the hissing "sh" sound and with the final N sound not quite finished. On the other hand, guides to Polish often tell you that the nasal E~ is usually pronounced like plain E at the end of words. Thus the Pitt Polish language class tells you "naprawde~" is pronounced with plain old E at the end. But if you hear a Pole say the word _imie~_, "(first) name," that final sound is definitely nasal. I've hear some people pronounce that word with a final sound almost like "EE-meow," like a cat! So what about _sie~_ -- is it "shen" or "sheh" or "sheow" or what? I usually pronounce it with a little bit of a nasal sound, "shen" with a faint N at the end, not emphasized, and no one's ever corrected me. But I'm pretty sure I still don't have it quite right. So don't feel bad if you have trouble. I've been working on my Polish for at least 20 years, and I'm still stumbling over one of the most basic points of pronunciation! Fred