HI, Anne Keen <akdl25466_2@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > Is there any evidence that the Church of Jesus > Christ of Latter-Day Saints > has rebapitzed people's ancestors ( after death) > without their descendents' > knowledge or agreement? Yes, there's plenty of evidence of that. Just Google "Mormons baptizing dead" and you'll find plenty of articles about this, and especially about Jews objecting to the LDS's repeated baptism of Jews who are no longer around to object. You'll also find articles that explain why the LDS promotes genealogy -- in order to baptize all people who were ancestors to Mormons. They're trying to document humankind as far back as possible, because the further back you go, the more certain it is your ancestors and mine coincide. The way they see it, no one should be "off limits" to them because all people who ever lived are potential ancestors. That's also why they willingly let non-Mormons use their facilities. The more family trees are documented, the more ancestors of Mormons will be found. A really interesting book was published last year on the doctrinal underpinning for LDS genealogical research. It's by Donald Harman Akenson, and it's entitled _Some Family: The Mormons and How Humanity Keeps Track of Itself_ (ISBN 978-0773532953 ). I haven't finished it yet; the middle chapters are rather heavy going. But I intend to finish it, as it is very informative, and the author has a nice sense of humor. I'm learning a lot I didn't know about why Mormons take genealogy so seriously. The doctrine sounds like utter nonsense to me, but religious beliefs always seem like drivel as long as they're not yours.... Fred Hoffman

Being an active member of the LDS Church, I want to put my 2 cents worth in here. I don't understand why anyone would object to the practice of baptizing posthumously. If you don't believe that the LDS Church has any power or is a "true" church than what does it matter? If you are Catholic, as my son-in-law is, as well as many of my ancestors and were baptized as a Catholic and you truly believe in the Catholic church, then why would you care? If you really true believe in your own church's doctrine, what is the harm? If you were baptized a Lutheran, as almost all of my father's ancestors were and then I, as an active Mormon had them baptized into the LDS faith, if my aunts and uncles who are still Lutherans didn't agree with my faith, I believe they are comfortable knowing that their ancestors were baptized as Lutherans. I think in the world that we live in that we all need to be accepting and tolerant of other's believe and opinions. I love my sons-in-laws and my grandchildren baptized in the Catholic church, as much as I love my grandchildren baptized into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-SAints. I believe in the teachings and tenets of the LDS church, but I was not offended or upset that my children chose another faith and I believe that my ancestors would have felt the same. I believe all of us climbing our family trees do it for different reasons, I do it both for my faith, but also because I want to feel a connection with others who have come before me. I don't feel I'm better or worse because of the church my ancestors chose to join. Let us all be more tolerant. I think it is very sad that the Catholic church has done this, as I think it was done for the wrong reason, because somehow they felt threatened. The only reason to act out of fear is if you are unsure of your own beliefs. Julia Price ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Hoffman" <wmfhoffman@sbcglobal.net> To: <poland-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [POLAND] Vatican Orders Records Withheld from Mormons > HI, > > Anne Keen <akdl25466_2@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > >> Is there any evidence that the Church of Jesus >> Christ of Latter-Day Saints >> has rebapitzed people's ancestors ( after death) >> without their descendents' >> knowledge or agreement? > > Yes, there's plenty of evidence of that. Just > Google "Mormons baptizing dead" and you'll find > plenty of articles about this, and especially > about Jews objecting to the LDS's repeated baptism > of Jews who are no longer around to object. You'll > also find articles that explain why the LDS > promotes genealogy -- in order to baptize all > people who were ancestors to Mormons. They're > trying to document humankind as far back as > possible, because the further back you go, the > more certain it is your ancestors and mine > coincide. The way they see it, no one should be > "off limits" to them because all people who ever > lived are potential ancestors. That's also why > they willingly let non-Mormons use their > facilities. The more family trees are documented, > the more ancestors of Mormons will be found. > > A really interesting book was published last year > on the doctrinal underpinning for LDS genealogical > research. It's by Donald Harman Akenson, and it's > entitled _Some Family: The Mormons and How > Humanity Keeps Track of Itself_ (ISBN > 978-0773532953 ). I haven't finished it yet; the > middle chapters are rather heavy going. But I > intend to finish it, as it is very informative, > and the author has a nice sense of humor. I'm > learning a lot I didn't know about why Mormons > take genealogy so seriously. The doctrine sounds > like utter nonsense to me, but religious beliefs > always seem like drivel as long as they're not > yours.... > > Fred Hoffman > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as > long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: > researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

As a Catholic, I had my children baptized in a Catholic ceremony, but I must say that I agree with you Julia. If the objection to LDS baptisms is real, in my mind it indicates a weak faith on the part of the objectors. Not only that, but I have the nagging feeling that baptisms are actually inductions as Christians and, as such, do not reflect affiliation with any specific Christian denomination. I could very well be remembering that wrong, since my memory is getting shorter! .......Mike On May 7, 2008, at 3:30 PM, Julia Price wrote: > Being an active member of the LDS Church, I want to put my 2 cents > worth in > here. I don't understand why anyone would object to the practice of > baptizing posthumously. If you don't believe that the LDS Church > has any > power or is a "true" church than what does it matter? If you are > Catholic, > as my son-in-law is, as well as many of my ancestors and were > baptized as a > Catholic and you truly believe in the Catholic church, then why > would you > care? If you really true believe in your own church's doctrine, > what is the > harm?

Julia This is similar to what another member has said - if your ancestors were baptized in a faith other than LDS, and you do not believe that the LDS is the true church, it should matter little or nothing to you what the LDS do. For you, the original baptism will hold true. My maternal German/Polish ancestors were Lutheran: my paternal English ones were Church of England. I am nothing in particular.I'm all for tolerance, but I can see that it makes people uneasy thinking that their ancestors might be baptized into a different faith without their knowledge or agreement. It can almost appear like a control thing, or a desire for a monopoly of souls. There will always be more than one side to this issue. Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julia Price" <juliakayprice@hotmail.com> To: <poland-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:30 PM Subject: Re: [POLAND] Vatican Orders Records Withheld from Mormons > Being an active member of the LDS Church, I want to put my 2 cents worth > in > here. I don't understand why anyone would object to the practice of > baptizing posthumously. If you don't believe that the LDS Church has any > power or is a "true" church than what does it matter? If you are > Catholic, > as my son-in-law is, as well as many of my ancestors and were baptized as > a > Catholic and you truly believe in the Catholic church, then why would you > care? If you really true believe in your own church's doctrine, what is > the > harm? If you were baptized a Lutheran, as almost all of my father's > ancestors were and then I, as an active Mormon had them baptized into the > LDS faith, if my aunts and uncles who are still Lutherans didn't agree > with > my faith, I believe they are comfortable knowing that their ancestors were > baptized as Lutherans. > > I think in the world that we live in that we all need to be accepting and > tolerant of other's believe and opinions. I love my sons-in-laws and my > grandchildren baptized in the Catholic church, as much as I love my > grandchildren baptized into the Church of Jesus Christ of > Latter-Day-SAints. > I believe in the teachings and tenets of the LDS church, but I was not > offended or upset that my children chose another faith and I believe that > my > ancestors would have felt the same. > > I believe all of us climbing our family trees do it for different reasons, > I > do it both for my faith, but also because I want to feel a connection with > others who have come before me. I don't feel I'm better or worse because > of > the church my ancestors chose to join. > > Let us all be more tolerant. I think it is very sad that the Catholic > church has done this, as I think it was done for the wrong reason, because > somehow they felt threatened. The only reason to act out of fear is if > you > are unsure of your own beliefs. > > Julia Price > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Hoffman" <wmfhoffman@sbcglobal.net> > To: <poland-roots@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 10:52 AM > Subject: Re: [POLAND] Vatican Orders Records Withheld from Mormons > > >> HI, >> >> Anne Keen <akdl25466_2@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: >> >>> Is there any evidence that the Church of Jesus >>> Christ of Latter-Day Saints >>> has rebapitzed people's ancestors ( after death) >>> without their descendents' >>> knowledge or agreement? >> >> Yes, there's plenty of evidence of that. Just >> Google "Mormons baptizing dead" and you'll find >> plenty of articles about this, and especially >> about Jews objecting to the LDS's repeated baptism >> of Jews who are no longer around to object. You'll >> also find articles that explain why the LDS >> promotes genealogy -- in order to baptize all >> people who were ancestors to Mormons. They're >> trying to document humankind as far back as >> possible, because the further back you go, the >> more certain it is your ancestors and mine >> coincide. The way they see it, no one should be >> "off limits" to them because all people who ever >> lived are potential ancestors. That's also why >> they willingly let non-Mormons use their >> facilities. The more family trees are documented, >> the more ancestors of Mormons will be found. >> >> A really interesting book was published last year >> on the doctrinal underpinning for LDS genealogical >> research. It's by Donald Harman Akenson, and it's >> entitled _Some Family: The Mormons and How >> Humanity Keeps Track of Itself_ (ISBN >> 978-0773532953 ). I haven't finished it yet; the >> middle chapters are rather heavy going. But I >> intend to finish it, as it is very informative, >> and the author has a nice sense of humor. I'm >> learning a lot I didn't know about why Mormons >> take genealogy so seriously. The doctrine sounds >> like utter nonsense to me, but religious beliefs >> always seem like drivel as long as they're not >> yours.... >> >> Fred Hoffman >> >> ********************************* >> Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at >> Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com >> ---------------------------------- >> Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list >> as >> long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: >> researching our Polish roots. >> ---------------------------------- >> Browse the list's archives here: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots >> Search the list's archives here: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as > long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: > researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Thanks for this, Fred. As a woman-of-no-particular-religion, I have never looked into any one religion deeply enough ( mainly because I haven't been interested enough to do so) to even begin to understand it properly. Nominally I was brought up as Church of England: being the mercenary little beast that I was, as a child ( aren't we all?) I found the Sunday School which had the most treats and outings, and attended that one......it happened to be Church of England. In the eyes of a child, that was what mattered. There were several Non-Conformist chapels and meeting places in the locality, but most of them seemed sooo miserable to me. Church of England was also my grandmother's church, and she attended regularly all her life. She regarded Catholics with a deep and grave suspicion. I'm not telling you what she called 'Them Methodys'. Unprintable. I absorbed her prejudices, but as I grew recognised them for what they were and discarded them. I grew out of them. As an adult I can see things differently, of course, but as a child all that mattered was how many times we got taken to the seaside. I will cast about for the book you mention. I would def.be interested in reading it. I find it a little ironic that I am currently waiting for some films to come to a local FHC from Salt Lake City: the cost of the rental and the shipping was nominal. I couldn't understand why it was so cheap: your email has perhaps shed some light on this. I have not published my family tree and after this I definitely won't publish it with the LDS. Thank you for a clear and unbiased explanation. Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Hoffman" <wmfhoffman@sbcglobal.net> To: <poland-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [POLAND] Vatican Orders Records Withheld from Mormons > HI, > > Anne Keen <akdl25466_2@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > >> Is there any evidence that the Church of Jesus >> Christ of Latter-Day Saints >> has rebapitzed people's ancestors ( after death) >> without their descendents' >> knowledge or agreement? > > Yes, there's plenty of evidence of that. Just > Google "Mormons baptizing dead" and you'll find > plenty of articles about this, and especially > about Jews objecting to the LDS's repeated baptism > of Jews who are no longer around to object. You'll > also find articles that explain why the LDS > promotes genealogy -- in order to baptize all > people who were ancestors to Mormons. They're > trying to document humankind as far back as > possible, because the further back you go, the > more certain it is your ancestors and mine > coincide. The way they see it, no one should be > "off limits" to them because all people who ever > lived are potential ancestors. That's also why > they willingly let non-Mormons use their > facilities. The more family trees are documented, > the more ancestors of Mormons will be found. > > A really interesting book was published last year > on the doctrinal underpinning for LDS genealogical > research. It's by Donald Harman Akenson, and it's > entitled _Some Family: The Mormons and How > Humanity Keeps Track of Itself_ (ISBN > 978-0773532953 ). I haven't finished it yet; the > middle chapters are rather heavy going. But I > intend to finish it, as it is very informative, > and the author has a nice sense of humor. I'm > learning a lot I didn't know about why Mormons > take genealogy so seriously. The doctrine sounds > like utter nonsense to me, but religious beliefs > always seem like drivel as long as they're not > yours.... > > Fred Hoffman > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as > long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: > researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >