***I understand, but my point is, why do they care, since LDS baptisms are considered invalid by the RC Church anyway? At 03:51 PM 5/7/2008, you wrote: >Carol, > >The RC church has stated that the LDS baptizing of the dead is >invalid. However, apparently the RC church did issue a directive to >its bishops "not to give information in parish registers to the >Mormons' Genealogical Society of Utah." The wording states the >directive was given to the "episcopal conferences" which means each >"area", country, for example, has the right to decide for themselves >what they want to do. The U.S. is one episcopal conference (not to be >confused with Episcopalians), Poland another. Though the U.S. bishops >may vote to ignore this directive, I bet Poland rolls over, as it >were. Poland already has bishops who have refused LDS access to RC >church records so it's entirely possible that the other bishops will >be convinced to agree with the directive. > >http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0802443.htm >The above source is not the original source (can't find it in any >language on the internet) but Catholic News Service states they have a >copy of the original letter. > >BTW The Polish RC diocesan archives do, in fact, have other religion's >records as well, depending on the archive. I don't know how an >episcopal conference will handle the issue of LDS filming say, Greek >Catholic records in its possession. > >Debbie > >Carol Goodson wrote: > > Although I am a lapsed Catholic (so perhaps my opinion is > > irrelevant), it would seem to me that if you believed that you were a > > member of the one true Faith (whichever one it was), it wouldn't > > matter if another church tried to baptize one of your own: it would > > be invalid anyway and thus have no effect. > > > > Carol Goodson > > Carrollton GA >********************************* >Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at >Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com >---------------------------------- >Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the >list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this >list: researching our Polish roots. >---------------------------------- >Browse the list's archives here: >http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots >Search the list's archives here: >http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On May 7, 2008, at 2:21 PM, Carol Goodson wrote: > ***I understand, but my point is, why do they care, since LDS > baptisms are considered invalid by the RC Church anyway? I think it's a matter of perceived arrogance. Would you want a "distant" relative of a Wiccan, or Amish, or Hare Krishna, or Jainist or any other group to look at the family trees of "true believers" and say they are wrong (based on the teachings of the other's religion) and announce all those Mormons will be now baptized as Amish or Wiccans, etc. After all, if those beliefs are wrong, their posthumous conversions did no harm; if they were correct in converting all those Mormons, then they have done the Mormons a grand favor. I'm sure there would be some Mormons who would be a little peeved at the arrogance of those other religions who believe their belief is the only true religion and the Mormons they are helping were wrong. We speak of "tolerance" among the religions, but if you reverse the argument, you can see denying the faith of one religion does not make your religion the one true religion. That's why it's called a "belief" -- it is your belief that you believe yours is the religion that fits your spiritual needs. Not everyone has the same belief system. Baptizing a person who did not freely welcome the Latter Day Saints doctrine while they were alive, can be interpreted as religious arrogance -- "offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride." That is why the Jewish community and now the Roman Catholic Church are raising this point of discussion. Unfortunately, those of us who have non-religious purposes to our family research are caught in the middle of religious objections. God bless the Mormons for taking the astronomical task of microfilming records throughout the world. Our task of finding our ancestors would have discouraged most of use from ever taking this exciting road through history. But please remember that no matter how you phrase the motivation behind gathering this documentation, it really is offensive to a lot of people who do not share in the same belief system. -- Alan

Carol, I think the RC church claims (as one reason) it is trying to protect the privacy of its members (even those who died 200 years ago apparently). I wonder if the RC church sees the "cooperation" as enabling/being tolerant of a religion with which it doesn't agree. Some other possibilities can be found here: http://www.haloscan.com/comments/americanpapist/8350217687800289097/ Debbie Carol Goodson wrote: > ***I understand, but my point is, why do they care, since LDS > baptisms are considered invalid by the RC Church anyway? > > At 03:51 PM 5/7/2008, you wrote: >> Carol, >> >> The RC church has stated that the LDS baptizing of the dead is >> invalid. However, apparently the RC church did issue a directive to >> its bishops "not to give information in parish registers to the >> Mormons' Genealogical Society of Utah." The wording states the >> directive was given to the "episcopal conferences" which means each >> "area", country, for example, has the right to decide for themselves >> what they want to do. The U.S. is one episcopal conference (not to be >> confused with Episcopalians), Poland another. Though the U.S. bishops >> may vote to ignore this directive, I bet Poland rolls over, as it >> were. Poland already has bishops who have refused LDS access to RC >> church records so it's entirely possible that the other bishops will >> be convinced to agree with the directive. >> >> http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0802443.htm >> The above source is not the original source (can't find it in any >> language on the internet) but Catholic News Service states they have a >> copy of the original letter. >> >> BTW The Polish RC diocesan archives do, in fact, have other religion's >> records as well, depending on the archive. I don't know how an >> episcopal conference will handle the issue of LDS filming say, Greek >> Catholic records in its possession. >> >> Debbie >> >> Carol Goodson wrote: >>> Although I am a lapsed Catholic (so perhaps my opinion is >>> irrelevant), it would seem to me that if you believed that you were a >>> member of the one true Faith (whichever one it was), it wouldn't >>> matter if another church tried to baptize one of your own: it would >>> be invalid anyway and thus have no effect. >>> >>> Carol Goodson >>> Carrollton GA

Folks, Just a reminder to keep to the topic of this list: Polish genealogy. Please don't venture into a religious debate. Please keep this discussion to how the subject pertains to *genealogy.* :-) Regards, Marie, list admin