I have definitely seen what appear to be two patronymics appearing in Jewish BMDs from the 1800's in Poland, but I still get confused about their exact interpretation. Remember someone's hebrew name is "given name(s)" + "son of" or "daughter of" + "father's given name(s)" I am not sure if that is a factor here. But JewishGen has a special facility called ViewMate where people post BMDs and other images for translation, as well as questions, and you might scan through the recent submissions and their answers and consider submitting your request for explanation there as well as here. http://www.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ I just spoke with a friend who has studied Russian Jewish names a little, and he said that in the case where there seems to be a double patronymic, the first patronymic is a true patronymic, and the second is likely to be a surname in the form of a patronymic. In the case of Szjena Basia Wolfow Baranowicz, I believe that would mean her maiden name was Baranowicz and father's first name Wolf. Also, don't get hung up about the final "y" in Estery z Chemiow's name. In old Hebrew, there were no written vowels, just the consonents, and when transliterating from Hebrew to Polish or Cyrilliac and then to English, names often morph to be nearly unrecognizable. For example, I found a record at JewishGen for the 1855 marriage of Josk Lejba Wejcymer to Rejza Szerman. I am sure from family members, this is Raizinke aka Risie Sherman and Yitchok Leib Wajncymer. See the differences in the names? But they sort of sound the same, and when researching Jews in Polish BMD's we have to be flexible and understand that we are dealing with records going through multiple translations and permutations, often recorded by people who did not care about perfect spelling. I also wonder, in Szejna's case, if that 'z' might simply mean ""daughter of"? Her name on her tombstone in Hebrew would be Szejna bat Wolf, or possibly even Szejna bat Velvel, as Velvel is the same as Wolf. Did the person who helped you translate know Jewish naming conventions? Another place to explore might be JewishGen's Info Files. One interesting related article, showing someone else's efforts to work with Jewish family surnames (altho not focussed on the Patronymic issue) is: Alternate Surnames in Russian Poland http://www.jewishgen.org/InfoFiles/pl-sname.html On 2/27/11, Rizzotti <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello Genners: > I have a question. I have Jewish family from Poland and Ukraine. I > have received Polish BMD documents for the 1860s. In the translations > it appears to me that even female names in these documents reflect the > Patronymic. For example, I have a birth record for one of my great > great grandparent's children that, with wonderful help from another > Poland Roots "member", I transliterated and then translated. However, > I am puzzled that my great great grandmother's name is listed as > Estery z Chemiow. I know for certain that her father was Chemia and > that her name was Ester or Estera not Estery. I do know that Jews did > not have surnames before the Napoleonic mandate and that they used > their father's names as a form of surname that is commonly known as > Patronymic naming. Names ending in -witz, wicz or vich usually > indicate the name is a Patronymic. So, I am puzzled about "z Chemiow". > The person helping me feels that her name was Ester born Chemia (as a > surname) but her maiden name was Teperowitz or Teperowicz--full name > Ester(a) Gitla Teperowicz. Is there a different system for using > Patronymics in Polish Catholic vs Polish Jewish records in the Polish > language or even in Cyrillic? There was another birth record, in > Cyrillic, where the mother of the child, was named Szjena Basia Wolfow > Baranowicz. Her married surname was Slepak. That name seems to have 2 > Patronymics or is it > that in the Russian language a person has the patronymic not only of > the father but of the grandfather. I hope someone out there could give > me some insight. > Thank You, > Meryl Rizzotti