Hello Debbie, and all the others who asked, I found these records mostly by luck, (or at least by looking at lots of less interesting records, till I hit the jackpot). As you guessed, the originals were in Polish - I'm fluent in German and English, but my Polish still needs a lot of work. But, it was enough to recognise that I'd stumbled across something interesting, and to get the gist of it - I paid a translator here to do the full translation. These particular records weren't specifically about emigration, they just featured in a big volume of records about the cloth industry, which had reports and correspondence about all sorts of different matters connected with cloth manufacture. The particular records I found weren't there because the Polish authorities were interested in emigration as a whole, but because they were worried about what would happen in Ozorkow if all the clothmakers ran away. The "call number" for this collection of documents was AGAD Kom Woj Kal II 2233 AGAD is the name of the archive in Warsaw, (Main Archive of Historical Records) Kom Woj Kal is the abbreviation for the Fond, (fond 228, or zespoly 228), Kom Woj Kal is short for Komisja Wojewodztwa Kaliskiego which was one of the bodies involved in administrating the area. For details about the kommission, try a google-translate on page http://baza.archiwa.gov.pl/sezam/sezam.php?l=pl&mode=show&zespoly_id=228 (but you may need to use your imagination too). II (two) is a subdivision of the fond, 2233 is the actual call number within the fond. ------ I started looking at government records about 10 years ago, after I thought I'd seen all the church records for the places my ancestors lived. It's challenging, but can pay off and give you really good finds like the one below. But more often you will just find your ancestor's name in a list of tax-payers; but I find that interesting too, you can see whether they were well off or not, compared with the other people in the town or village. You have to be happy with anything you might find. Archives are almost always organised on the provenance principle, with records catalogued in fonds, which group together all the records made by a particular organisation. Within the fond, the titles of the units are usually the original titles, which don't always describe the contents very helpfully. For historians this is really the only good way to organise things, it means you really know the context of a document. But it makes things harder for us amateurs, you have to try and figure out which ministries, courts, or other bureaucracy would have been interested in your ancestors, and then look for documents concerning the exact place or occupation your ancestor had. And be prepared to look through a lot of uninteresting records before you find the good ones. You have to hope your ancestor was a trouble-maker --- they have longer files than the good citizens. The book, "Going Home", by Jonathan Shea is very good for giving you an idea of the sorts of documents you might find in archives in Poland. But sadly it's mostly not the sort of thing you can just write to an archive and ask for - the volume with all the fascinating details about your ancestor won't be the same one that has the good stuff about my ancestor - you either have to look for yourself, or hire a good researcher. I hope this answers at least some of the questions I've been asked, Paul Rakow Debbie Greenlee <daveg@airmail.net> wrote: > > Paul, > > This is great stuff! Where did you find all of this information? I > know it wasn't in English. . . > > Debbie whose own family were farmers. > > Paul Rakow wrote: >> Hello Debbie, Vera, >> >> One of my ancestors moved from Ozorkow (a few miles from Zgierz) >> to Knyszyn near Bialystok at about the same time, 1831. >> >> Along with about 20 other clothmakers from the town, he first >> tried to get permission to move to the Bialystok area in the 1820s. >> I was lucky enough to find some documents about his first attempt >> in the Warsaw archives. Here's what he said: >> >> ====== >> >> 7 August, 1824, Ozorkow >> >> Gottlieb Huebner, cloth manufacturer, presented himself in person, >> and testified: >> >> My name is Gottlieb Huebner, my profession is cloth-maker. I was born >> in the town Zaniemysl in the province Poznan. The last place I lived >> in was the town Pyzdry; I came to live in Ozorkow three years ago. I >> have my own house, on a site with 2 morgens of land. I also own the >> machines needed to pursue my trade, and some household equipment. >> >> 1) So you intend to emigrate to Russia? Why? >> >> Answer to 1) >> >> I intend to move to Russia, if I am permitted. The reason is simply >> that the market in our goods is poor, because of the increasing number >> of large factories, such as the Harrer factory in Sieradz. Trade has >> declined noticeably, and I believe it is bound to collapse. >> >> I do not have any other reasons, and I am not suffering from any >> injustices. The only thing I need to mention in conclusion is that >> the Squire of the Ozorkow estate has already sold the grist and >> fulling mills to be used as manufacturies, and is depriving us of >> opportunities to use the fulling mill. This lack will soon be, in >> fact already is, felt by us. We, the manufacturers of Ozorkow, only >> have one fulling mill; a very poor one, at that. >> >> As for my public liabilities, I have nothing to say. I am only liable >> for the town treasury tax, labour duty, and the school fee. I have no >> reason to complain about public burdens. >> >> This is my honest testimony, in witness whereof I sign with my own >> hand. I state that no one urged me to move to Russia, and that I am >> certain I know of no one who would urge it. >> >> Gottlieb Huebner >> >> ============= >> >> So, as Debbie guessed, its mostly economic reasons. >> >> One reason for a lot of cloth-makers leaving the Lodz >> region and moving to Bialystok was that the Russians had put up the >> customs duty to keep cheap cloth from the Polish provinces out >> of Russia proper. Bialystok at that time was on the Russian side >> of the customs line, so some of the big industrialists from the >> Lodz region opened up factories in Bialystok, and many of the >> small clothmakers moved too. I'll have to check on the date that >> the customs were raised - but I think it was soon after the 1830 >> Polish uprising. >> >> Also, clothmaking in the 1800s was still run on the guild >> system. After their apprenticeship a young clothmaker had to >> several years travelling around working in different towns to >> gain experience and see how things were done elsewhere, so they >> would know where the best opportunities were. I think that's why >> clothmaker families are so challenging to track, because sons >> often settled far away from their birthplace, unlike farm people. >> >> Paul Rakow >>