Has anyone ever obtained copies of marriage licenses from Philadelphia, circa 1900-1915? I'm considering ordering some microfilms of them at the FHC, but before I do, I want to know how detailed they are. Do they have information like the name of the bride's and groom's parents, date/place of birth, etc., or do they just have the name of the bride and groom, and little else. (In which case they won't be of much use to me) Thanks! Chris Smolinski Black Cat Systems http://www.blackcatsystems.com

Hello Debbie, and all the others who asked, I found these records mostly by luck, (or at least by looking at lots of less interesting records, till I hit the jackpot). As you guessed, the originals were in Polish - I'm fluent in German and English, but my Polish still needs a lot of work. But, it was enough to recognise that I'd stumbled across something interesting, and to get the gist of it - I paid a translator here to do the full translation. These particular records weren't specifically about emigration, they just featured in a big volume of records about the cloth industry, which had reports and correspondence about all sorts of different matters connected with cloth manufacture. The particular records I found weren't there because the Polish authorities were interested in emigration as a whole, but because they were worried about what would happen in Ozorkow if all the clothmakers ran away. The "call number" for this collection of documents was AGAD Kom Woj Kal II 2233 AGAD is the name of the archive in Warsaw, (Main Archive of Historical Records) Kom Woj Kal is the abbreviation for the Fond, (fond 228, or zespoly 228), Kom Woj Kal is short for Komisja Wojewodztwa Kaliskiego which was one of the bodies involved in administrating the area. For details about the kommission, try a google-translate on page http://baza.archiwa.gov.pl/sezam/sezam.php?l=pl&mode=show&zespoly_id=228 (but you may need to use your imagination too). II (two) is a subdivision of the fond, 2233 is the actual call number within the fond. ------ I started looking at government records about 10 years ago, after I thought I'd seen all the church records for the places my ancestors lived. It's challenging, but can pay off and give you really good finds like the one below. But more often you will just find your ancestor's name in a list of tax-payers; but I find that interesting too, you can see whether they were well off or not, compared with the other people in the town or village. You have to be happy with anything you might find. Archives are almost always organised on the provenance principle, with records catalogued in fonds, which group together all the records made by a particular organisation. Within the fond, the titles of the units are usually the original titles, which don't always describe the contents very helpfully. For historians this is really the only good way to organise things, it means you really know the context of a document. But it makes things harder for us amateurs, you have to try and figure out which ministries, courts, or other bureaucracy would have been interested in your ancestors, and then look for documents concerning the exact place or occupation your ancestor had. And be prepared to look through a lot of uninteresting records before you find the good ones. You have to hope your ancestor was a trouble-maker --- they have longer files than the good citizens. The book, "Going Home", by Jonathan Shea is very good for giving you an idea of the sorts of documents you might find in archives in Poland. But sadly it's mostly not the sort of thing you can just write to an archive and ask for - the volume with all the fascinating details about your ancestor won't be the same one that has the good stuff about my ancestor - you either have to look for yourself, or hire a good researcher. I hope this answers at least some of the questions I've been asked, Paul Rakow Debbie Greenlee <daveg@airmail.net> wrote: > > Paul, > > This is great stuff! Where did you find all of this information? I > know it wasn't in English. . . > > Debbie whose own family were farmers. > > Paul Rakow wrote: >> Hello Debbie, Vera, >> >> One of my ancestors moved from Ozorkow (a few miles from Zgierz) >> to Knyszyn near Bialystok at about the same time, 1831. >> >> Along with about 20 other clothmakers from the town, he first >> tried to get permission to move to the Bialystok area in the 1820s. >> I was lucky enough to find some documents about his first attempt >> in the Warsaw archives. Here's what he said: >> >> ====== >> >> 7 August, 1824, Ozorkow >> >> Gottlieb Huebner, cloth manufacturer, presented himself in person, >> and testified: >> >> My name is Gottlieb Huebner, my profession is cloth-maker. I was born >> in the town Zaniemysl in the province Poznan. The last place I lived >> in was the town Pyzdry; I came to live in Ozorkow three years ago. I >> have my own house, on a site with 2 morgens of land. I also own the >> machines needed to pursue my trade, and some household equipment. >> >> 1) So you intend to emigrate to Russia? Why? >> >> Answer to 1) >> >> I intend to move to Russia, if I am permitted. The reason is simply >> that the market in our goods is poor, because of the increasing number >> of large factories, such as the Harrer factory in Sieradz. Trade has >> declined noticeably, and I believe it is bound to collapse. >> >> I do not have any other reasons, and I am not suffering from any >> injustices. The only thing I need to mention in conclusion is that >> the Squire of the Ozorkow estate has already sold the grist and >> fulling mills to be used as manufacturies, and is depriving us of >> opportunities to use the fulling mill. This lack will soon be, in >> fact already is, felt by us. We, the manufacturers of Ozorkow, only >> have one fulling mill; a very poor one, at that. >> >> As for my public liabilities, I have nothing to say. I am only liable >> for the town treasury tax, labour duty, and the school fee. I have no >> reason to complain about public burdens. >> >> This is my honest testimony, in witness whereof I sign with my own >> hand. I state that no one urged me to move to Russia, and that I am >> certain I know of no one who would urge it. >> >> Gottlieb Huebner >> >> ============= >> >> So, as Debbie guessed, its mostly economic reasons. >> >> One reason for a lot of cloth-makers leaving the Lodz >> region and moving to Bialystok was that the Russians had put up the >> customs duty to keep cheap cloth from the Polish provinces out >> of Russia proper. Bialystok at that time was on the Russian side >> of the customs line, so some of the big industrialists from the >> Lodz region opened up factories in Bialystok, and many of the >> small clothmakers moved too. I'll have to check on the date that >> the customs were raised - but I think it was soon after the 1830 >> Polish uprising. >> >> Also, clothmaking in the 1800s was still run on the guild >> system. After their apprenticeship a young clothmaker had to >> several years travelling around working in different towns to >> gain experience and see how things were done elsewhere, so they >> would know where the best opportunities were. I think that's why >> clothmaker families are so challenging to track, because sons >> often settled far away from their birthplace, unlike farm people. >> >> Paul Rakow >>

Paul, What great information you've given us. I am sure many people will appreciate the details in how you found your record and what others would probably have to do in order to find more than just dates about their ancestors. Debbie Paul Rakow wrote: > Hello Debbie, and all the others who asked, > > I found these records mostly by luck, (or at least by looking > at lots of less interesting records, till I hit the jackpot). > > As you guessed, the originals were in Polish - I'm fluent > in German and English, but my Polish still needs a lot of work. > But, it was enough to recognise that I'd stumbled across something > interesting, and to get the gist of it - I paid a translator here > to do the full translation. > > These particular records weren't specifically about emigration, > they just featured in a big volume of records about the cloth industry, > which had reports and correspondence about all sorts of different > matters connected with cloth manufacture. The particular records I > found weren't there because the Polish authorities were interested > in emigration as a whole, but because they were worried about what > would happen in Ozorkow if all the clothmakers ran away. > > The "call number" for this collection of documents was > AGAD Kom Woj Kal II 2233 > > AGAD is the name of the archive in Warsaw, > (Main Archive of Historical Records) > > Kom Woj Kal is the abbreviation for the Fond, (fond 228, or zespoly 228), > Kom Woj Kal is short for Komisja Wojewodztwa Kaliskiego > which was one of the bodies involved in administrating the area. > For details about the kommission, try a google-translate on page > > http://baza.archiwa.gov.pl/sezam/sezam.php?l=pl&mode=show&zespoly_id=228 > > (but you may need to use your imagination too). > > II (two) is a subdivision of the fond, > 2233 is the actual call number within the fond. > > ------ > > I started looking at government records about 10 years ago, > after I thought I'd seen all the church records for the places > my ancestors lived. It's challenging, but can pay off and give > you really good finds like the one below. But more often you > will just find your ancestor's name in a list of tax-payers; > but I find that interesting too, you can see whether they were > well off or not, compared with the other people in the town or > village. You have to be happy with anything you might find. > > Archives are almost always organised on the provenance > principle, with records catalogued in fonds, which group > together all the records made by a particular organisation. > Within the fond, the titles of the units are usually the > original titles, which don't always describe the contents > very helpfully. For historians this is really the only good > way to organise things, it means you really know the context > of a document. But it makes things harder for us amateurs, > you have to try and figure out which ministries, courts, or > other bureaucracy would have been interested in your ancestors, > and then look for documents concerning the exact place or > occupation your ancestor had. And be prepared to look through > a lot of uninteresting records before you find the good ones. > You have to hope your ancestor was a trouble-maker --- they > have longer files than the good citizens. > > The book, "Going Home", by Jonathan Shea is very good > for giving you an idea of the sorts of documents you might > find in archives in Poland. > > But sadly it's mostly not the sort of thing you can just > write to an archive and ask for - the volume with all the > fascinating details about your ancestor won't be the same > one that has the good stuff about my ancestor - you either have > to look for yourself, or hire a good researcher. > > I hope this answers at least some of the questions I've > been asked, > > Paul Rakow > > Debbie Greenlee <daveg@airmail.net> wrote: >> Paul, >> >> This is great stuff! Where did you find all of this information? I >> know it wasn't in English. . . >> >> Debbie whose own family were farmers. >> >> Paul Rakow wrote: >>> Hello Debbie, Vera, >>> >>> One of my ancestors moved from Ozorkow (a few miles from Zgierz) >>> to Knyszyn near Bialystok at about the same time, 1831. >>> >>> Along with about 20 other clothmakers from the town, he first >>> tried to get permission to move to the Bialystok area in the 1820s. >>> I was lucky enough to find some documents about his first attempt >>> in the Warsaw archives. Here's what he said: >>> >>> ====== >>> >>> 7 August, 1824, Ozorkow >>> >>> Gottlieb Huebner, cloth manufacturer, presented himself in person, >>> and testified: >>> >>> My name is Gottlieb Huebner, my profession is cloth-maker. I was born >>> in the town Zaniemysl in the province Poznan. The last place I lived >>> in was the town Pyzdry; I came to live in Ozorkow three years ago. I >>> have my own house, on a site with 2 morgens of land. I also own the >>> machines needed to pursue my trade, and some household equipment. >>> >>> 1) So you intend to emigrate to Russia? Why? >>> >>> Answer to 1) >>> >>> I intend to move to Russia, if I am permitted. The reason is simply >>> that the market in our goods is poor, because of the increasing number >>> of large factories, such as the Harrer factory in Sieradz. Trade has >>> declined noticeably, and I believe it is bound to collapse. >>> >>> I do not have any other reasons, and I am not suffering from any >>> injustices. The only thing I need to mention in conclusion is that >>> the Squire of the Ozorkow estate has already sold the grist and >>> fulling mills to be used as manufacturies, and is depriving us of >>> opportunities to use the fulling mill. This lack will soon be, in >>> fact already is, felt by us. We, the manufacturers of Ozorkow, only >>> have one fulling mill; a very poor one, at that. >>> >>> As for my public liabilities, I have nothing to say. I am only liable >>> for the town treasury tax, labour duty, and the school fee. I have no >>> reason to complain about public burdens. >>> >>> This is my honest testimony, in witness whereof I sign with my own >>> hand. I state that no one urged me to move to Russia, and that I am >>> certain I know of no one who would urge it. >>> >>> Gottlieb Huebner >>> >>> ============= >>> >>> So, as Debbie guessed, its mostly economic reasons. >>> >>> One reason for a lot of cloth-makers leaving the Lodz >>> region and moving to Bialystok was that the Russians had put up the >>> customs duty to keep cheap cloth from the Polish provinces out >>> of Russia proper. Bialystok at that time was on the Russian side >>> of the customs line, so some of the big industrialists from the >>> Lodz region opened up factories in Bialystok, and many of the >>> small clothmakers moved too. I'll have to check on the date that >>> the customs were raised - but I think it was soon after the 1830 >>> Polish uprising. >>> >>> Also, clothmaking in the 1800s was still run on the guild >>> system. After their apprenticeship a young clothmaker had to >>> several years travelling around working in different towns to >>> gain experience and see how things were done elsewhere, so they >>> would know where the best opportunities were. I think that's why >>> clothmaker families are so challenging to track, because sons >>> often settled far away from their birthplace, unlike farm people. >>> >>> Paul Rakow

--- On Mon, 11/12/12, Agnieszka Kazanowska <aga.kazanowska@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Checking Ancestry.com I have found Justyna Gunia. Here as a > friend's name she > gave Marcin Gunia. However if you go to the actual image it > says that Marcin > Gunia (currently residing at 546 Blackstone street, La > Salle, ILL) is her father > who actually paid for the trip. List: I have provided Kris with a 1940 index listing for naturalization papers for a Martin Gunia with the Blackstone address, and told her how to get those papers. PolishDragon@att.net  

Hi Paul, Your post was tantalizing. I hope you intend to follow up with questions posed about the document. I think many of us are interested. Dorothy On Nov 9, 2012, at 3:10 PM, Paul Rakow wrote: Hello Debbie, Vera, One of my ancestors moved from Ozorkow (a few miles from Zgierz) to Knyszyn near Bialystok at about the same time, 1831. Along with about 20 other clothmakers from the town, he first tried to get permission to move to the Bialystok area in the 1820s. I was lucky enough to find some documents about his first attempt in the Warsaw archives. Here's what he said: ====== 7 August, 1824, Ozorkow Gottlieb Huebner, cloth manufacturer, presented himself in person, and testified: My name is Gottlieb Huebner, my profession is cloth-maker. I was born in the town Zaniemysl in the province Poznan. The last place I lived in was the town Pyzdry; I came to live in Ozorkow three years ago. I have my own house, on a site with 2 morgens of land. I also own the machines needed to pursue my trade, and some household equipment. 1) So you intend to emigrate to Russia? Why? Answer to 1) I intend to move to Russia, if I am permitted. The reason is simply that the market in our goods is poor, because of the increasing number of large factories, such as the Harrer factory in Sieradz. Trade has declined noticeably, and I believe it is bound to collapse. I do not have any other reasons, and I am not suffering from any injustices. The only thing I need to mention in conclusion is that the Squire of the Ozorkow estate has already sold the grist and fulling mills to be used as manufacturies, and is depriving us of opportunities to use the fulling mill. This lack will soon be, in fact already is, felt by us. We, the manufacturers of Ozorkow, only have one fulling mill; a very poor one, at that. As for my public liabilities, I have nothing to say. I am only liable for the town treasury tax, labour duty, and the school fee. I have no reason to complain about public burdens. This is my honest testimony, in witness whereof I sign with my own hand. I state that no one urged me to move to Russia, and that I am certain I know of no one who would urge it. Gottlieb Huebner ============= So, as Debbie guessed, its mostly economic reasons. One reason for a lot of cloth-makers leaving the Lodz region and moving to Bialystok was that the Russians had put up the customs duty to keep cheap cloth from the Polish provinces out of Russia proper. Bialystok at that time was on the Russian side of the customs line, so some of the big industrialists from the Lodz region opened up factories in Bialystok, and many of the small clothmakers moved too. I'll have to check on the date that the customs were raised - but I think it was soon after the 1830 Polish uprising. Also, clothmaking in the 1800s was still run on the guild system. After their apprenticeship a young clothmaker had to several years travelling around working in different towns to gain experience and see how things were done elsewhere, so they would know where the best opportunities were. I think that's why clothmaker families are so challenging to track, because sons often settled far away from their birthplace, unlike farm people. Paul Rakow Debbie Greenlee <daveg@airmail.net> wrote: > > Vera, > > There are no stupid questions. You've heard that before right? It's > true, however, I don't think anyone here can answer your question > definitively. > > If adult children were married they _might not_ have followed the > parents to another place. If the adult children were unmarried then > they probably would have moved with their parents. > > People moved long distances to seek a better life and more work. Word > of more work/lack of certain craftsmen got around; newspapers, word of > mouth. Most people at this time did not own land so it wasn't a big > deal to move. A clothmaker's sons would have worked for him or with him. > > You don't have to necessarily hire someone (especially in Bia?ystok) > to look for records. LDS has filmed Lutheran records for this city > covering 1841-1886. But these records would only help if you think > your ancestors were baptized and/or married in the Bia?ystok parish. > http://tinyurl.com/atfl78j [snip] > Debbie > -------------------------- > Vera Miller wrote: >> Hello all, >> I am trying to research the path of my Kretzer family. >> My great-great-great-grandmother Pauline Kretzer was born in 1836 in a > village near Zgierz and Lodz. She married Carl Hoffmann, born 1835 in > Ciechanowiec, near Bialystok. At the time of marriage, Pauline was > living > in Ratowiec near Bialystok. > >> Would it be correct to assume Pauline traveled from Zgierz to near > Bialystok with her parents as an unmarried woman? The Kretzers were > clothmakers. Would all the unmarried children of my > great-great-great-great-grandparents be expected to relocate near > Bialystok or would all grown children (unmarried and married) be > expected to relocate? How would the clothmakers know to relocate to > another city like Bialystok? Would the entire extended family be > offered employment in clothmaking? Sorry if this sounds like stupid > questions. >> I am trying to determine whether it would be worth my money to have > Bialystok archives search for Kretzer in Bialystok evangelical > lutherans records. I do not know whether Kretzer was a common name in > this area for the German population. >> Vera >> ********************************* Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com ---------------------------------- Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our Polish roots. ---------------------------------- Browse the list's archives here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots Search the list's archives here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Kris,   Checking Ancestry.com I have found Justyna Gunia. Here as a friend's name she gave Marcin Gunia. However if you go to the actual image it says that Marcin Gunia (currently residing at 546 Blackstone street, La Salle, ILL) is her father who actually paid for the trip. Boston Passenger and Crew Lists, 1820-1943about Justyna Gunia Name:Justyna Gunia Arrival Date:10 Jun 1921 Age:18 Estimated Birth Year:abt 1903 Gender:Female Ethnic Background:Polish Port of Departure:Danzig, Germany Ship Name:Potomac Port of Arrival:Boston, Massachusetts Friend's Name:Marcin Gumia Last Residence:Poland Birthplace:Zambrczyce, Poland   I have also found anothe record on EllisIsland.org for Justyna Gunia. This one is for her arrival in 1904 (october 31) at the age of 1 with her mother Agnieszka Gunia (age 24) going to her father Marcin Gunia residing in La Salle, ILL. It look slike it was the first time for boh of them to come to America. As a last residence address it shows Zembrzyce, Poland. If you could find a birth record for Justyna there should be more infor about her parents. I checked Wikipedia and there is a link for you to check: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zembrzyce I have also found a record for Marcin Gunia (age 35 - est birth. 1868) coming to America on May 30, 1903, sailing from Hamburg stating his last residence as Majdan and nationality Austrian.  Hamburg Passenger Lists, 1850-1934  about Marcin Gunia   I have found about 20 different places in Poland called Majdan but none of them seems to be close to Zembrzyce. But Majdan can also refer to a settlement of forrest workers or a part of a bigger city. On his arrival papers his ocupation says "Tagelöhner" - day laborer - he could be a forrest worker.   I hope it helps. If you have any questions, let me know.   Aga     ANY help would be much appreciated. Martin/Marcin Gunia – b. about 1872 in Poland (possibly Zembryzce) d. 1961 LaSalle Illinois Wife: Agnes/Agneizska Pauldis/Baldys b. 1884 d. 1955 Arrived in US 1903 and/or 1906 via Canada. I’m stuck....hit a big old brick wall. This above info is all I know about Martin.  It’s like he arrived in Illinois (via Canada) from thin air.  I can’t find anything about him  or Agnes. Please help me find more about him and Agnes. Kris ********************************* Need to contact the list manager?  Write to Marie at Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com ---------------------------------- Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our Polish roots. ---------------------------------- Browse the list's archives here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots Search the list's archives here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________ From: Kris D <annabean01@hotmail.com> To: POLAND-ROOTS@rootsweb.com Sent: Fri, November 9, 2012 8:41:08 PM Subject: [POLAND] Martin/Marcin Gunia Name:Marcin Gunia Departure Date:30 Mai 1903 (30 May 1903) Estimated Birth Year:abt 1868 Age Year:35 Gender:männlich (Male) Marital Status:verheiratet (Married) Family:Household members Residence:Majdan, Ethnicity/Nationality:Österreich (Austrian) Occupation:Landmann, Tagelöhner   Ship Name:Pretoria Shipping Line:Hamburg-Amerika Linie (Hamburg-Amerikanische Packetfahrt-Actien-Gesellschaft) Ship Type:Dampfschiff Accommodation:Zwischendeck Ship Flag:Deutschland Port of Departure:Hamburg Port of Arrival:New York   Volume:373-7 I, VIII A 1 Band 143 Page:1476 Microfilm Roll Number:K_1779

--- On Sat, 11/10/12, Kris D <annabean01@hotmail.com> wrote: >I have all information once they arrived in the US and lived in LaSalle >Illinois. >It’s the information before coming to the US that I am looking for,. >I am seriously beginning to think there is no record of them before ?coming to the US. Kris: I don't recall his date of death, but if he is the one naturalized in LaSalle in 1940, what do the DOI and paperwork say? Also, a Martin Gunia entered the USA from Canada in 1909, but the age is about 8 years off. If he entered Canada, there is a manifest just like the USA ones. BUT, they are not indexed for the 1909 time frame. I think the indexing ends about 1906. You can READ each one thru the Canadian Archives website--page by page. What do the Hamburg & Rotterdam departure lists say? Hamburg online and Rotterdam was supposed to go online, but don't recall if it did. However, it is available on fiche thru LDS catalog. PolishDragon@att.net

Linda Johnson, in response to your message: Doing a quick search I found a Martha Gunia born to Martin Gunia and Agnes Boldys in Feb 1919 and her death was in March 1919 in LaSalle, IL. This was on Family Search. You can also find the family in several censuses that are very easy to access on Family Search and Ancestry.com. Hope this helps. Linda I have all information once they arrived in the US and lived in LaSalle Illinois. It’s the information before coming to the US that I am looking for,. I am seriously beginning to think there is no record of them before coming to the US. Linda, Thanks for your response. Kris

DeAnn, I think you meant to address this to Paul as I am not researching this name/person. Debbie DeAnn Leonard wrote: > Debbie > Do you have an August Huebner d. 1901 birth unknown > Had a daughter Emelia B. 11-14-1864 came from this same area , in your > research ?? would appreciate hearing from you > > Paul Rakow wrote: >> Hello Debbie, Vera, >> >> One of my ancestors moved from Ozorkow (a few miles from Zgierz) >> to Knyszyn near Bialystok at about the same time, 1831. >> >> Along with about 20 other clothmakers from the town, he first >> tried to get permission to move to the Bialystok area in the 1820s. >> I was lucky enough to find some documents about his first attempt >> in the Warsaw archives. Here's what he said: >> >> ====== >> >> 7 August, 1824, Ozorkow >> >> Gottlieb Huebner, cloth manufacturer, presented himself in person, >> and testified: >> >> My name is Gottlieb Huebner, my profession is cloth-maker. I was born >> in the town Zaniemysl in the province Poznan. The last place I lived >> in was the town Pyzdry; I came to live in Ozorkow three years ago. I >> have my own house, on a site with 2 morgens of land. I also own the >> machines needed to pursue my trade, and some household equipment. >> >> 1) So you intend to emigrate to Russia? Why? >> >> Answer to 1) >> >> I intend to move to Russia, if I am permitted. The reason is simply >> that the market in our goods is poor, because of the increasing number >> of large factories, such as the Harrer factory in Sieradz. Trade has >> declined noticeably, and I believe it is bound to collapse. >> >> I do not have any other reasons, and I am not suffering from any >> injustices. The only thing I need to mention in conclusion is that >> the Squire of the Ozorkow estate has already sold the grist and >> fulling mills to be used as manufacturies, and is depriving us of >> opportunities to use the fulling mill. This lack will soon be, in >> fact already is, felt by us. We, the manufacturers of Ozorkow, only >> have one fulling mill; a very poor one, at that. >> >> As for my public liabilities, I have nothing to say. I am only liable >> for the town treasury tax, labour duty, and the school fee. I have no >> reason to complain about public burdens. >> >> This is my honest testimony, in witness whereof I sign with my own >> hand. I state that no one urged me to move to Russia, and that I am >> certain I know of no one who would urge it. >> >> Gottlieb Huebner >> >> ============= >> >> So, as Debbie guessed, its mostly economic reasons. >> >> One reason for a lot of cloth-makers leaving the Lodz >> region and moving to Bialystok was that the Russians had put up the >> customs duty to keep cheap cloth from the Polish provinces out >> of Russia proper. Bialystok at that time was on the Russian side >> of the customs line, so some of the big industrialists from the >> Lodz region opened up factories in Bialystok, and many of the >> small clothmakers moved too. I'll have to check on the date that >> the customs were raised - but I think it was soon after the 1830 >> Polish uprising. >> >> Also, clothmaking in the 1800s was still run on the guild >> system. After their apprenticeship a young clothmaker had to >> several years travelling around working in different towns to >> gain experience and see how things were done elsewhere, so they >> would know where the best opportunities were. I think that's why >> clothmaker families are so challenging to track, because sons >> often settled far away from their birthplace, unlike farm people. >> >> Paul Rakow >>

Harriet, The home site for the WIG (Wojskowy Instytut Geograficzny - Military Geographical Institute) is at: > http://polski.mapywig.org/news.php There you will find a Menu on the left side and a graphical index under 'Skorowidz'. You will, of course, need to know the approximate location of your village of interest. Roman On 11/10/2012 9:21 AM, Harriet wrote: > Roman, thank you for the link to the maps on the WIG series. I went > to the English site. Where do I search for a map of a particular > village on this website, please? > > > You can see a fairly decent map rendition on the WIG series: > >> http://www.mapywig.org/m/WIG100_300DPI/P47_S36_NAROL_300dpi.jpg > > Thank you, Harriet *********************************

Roman, thank you for the link to the maps on the WIG series. I went to the English site. Where do I search for a map of a particular village on this website, please? You can see a fairly decent map rendition on the WIG series: > http://www.mapywig.org/m/WIG100_300DPI/P47_S36_NAROL_300dpi.jpg Thank you, Harriet

Paul, The same document for my family would be very useful. How I can I find this on my ancestors? I know my great-great-great-grandmother Pauline Kretzer married in Suprasl in 1855 after her family moved from Zgierz. A researcher could only find a brother born in 1843 in the Zgierz area. I was thinking to have the researcher look at records from Ozorkow from 1831 to 1855 because our family lived in three of the same towns as yours, but maybe that will be waste with what is written below. Did many clothmakers move from Lodz in the 1840s to the smaller villages of Zgierz? The researcher did not find Pauline's birth record from 1836. Her son's marriage record says she was born in Biala near Zgierz but the researcher did not find the record. Her brother, Karol Fryderyk Kretzer, was born in Slowik, right near Ozorkow. Pauline's mother was born in 1813 so she was only 30 years when Karol was born. There is possibility for other children to be born but I do not know where to look. Pauline's mother was 18 years old in 1831 so she could have had children starting in late 1831 to 1853. But the father was born in 1803 so I do not know how much longer he wanted to be a father. Any advice? Vera > From: daveg@airmail.net > To: poland-roots@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [POLAND] family relocation in 1830s > > Paul, > > This is great stuff! Where did you find all of this information? I > know it wasn't in English. . . > > Debbie whose own family were farmers. > > Paul Rakow wrote: > > Hello Debbie, Vera, > > > > One of my ancestors moved from Ozorkow (a few miles from Zgierz) > > to Knyszyn near Bialystok at about the same time, 1831. > > > > Along with about 20 other clothmakers from the town, he first > > tried to get permission to move to the Bialystok area in the 1820s. > > I was lucky enough to find some documents about his first attempt > > in the Warsaw archives. Here's what he said: > > > > ====== > > > > 7 August, 1824, Ozorkow > > > > Gottlieb Huebner, cloth manufacturer, presented himself in person, > > and testified: > > > > My name is Gottlieb Huebner, my profession is cloth-maker. I was born > > in the town Zaniemysl in the province Poznan. The last place I lived > > in was the town Pyzdry; I came to live in Ozorkow three years ago. I > > have my own house, on a site with 2 morgens of land. I also own the > > machines needed to pursue my trade, and some household equipment. > > > > 1) So you intend to emigrate to Russia? Why? > > > > Answer to 1) > > > > I intend to move to Russia, if I am permitted. The reason is simply > > that the market in our goods is poor, because of the increasing number > > of large factories, such as the Harrer factory in Sieradz. Trade has > > declined noticeably, and I believe it is bound to collapse. > > > > I do not have any other reasons, and I am not suffering from any > > injustices. The only thing I need to mention in conclusion is that > > the Squire of the Ozorkow estate has already sold the grist and > > fulling mills to be used as manufacturies, and is depriving us of > > opportunities to use the fulling mill. This lack will soon be, in > > fact already is, felt by us. We, the manufacturers of Ozorkow, only > > have one fulling mill; a very poor one, at that. > > > > As for my public liabilities, I have nothing to say. I am only liable > > for the town treasury tax, labour duty, and the school fee. I have no > > reason to complain about public burdens. > > > > This is my honest testimony, in witness whereof I sign with my own > > hand. I state that no one urged me to move to Russia, and that I am > > certain I know of no one who would urge it. > > > > Gottlieb Huebner > > > > ============= > > > > So, as Debbie guessed, its mostly economic reasons. > > > > One reason for a lot of cloth-makers leaving the Lodz > > region and moving to Bialystok was that the Russians had put up the > > customs duty to keep cheap cloth from the Polish provinces out > > of Russia proper. Bialystok at that time was on the Russian side > > of the customs line, so some of the big industrialists from the > > Lodz region opened up factories in Bialystok, and many of the > > small clothmakers moved too. I'll have to check on the date that > > the customs were raised - but I think it was soon after the 1830 > > Polish uprising. > > > > Also, clothmaking in the 1800s was still run on the guild > > system. After their apprenticeship a young clothmaker had to > > several years travelling around working in different towns to > > gain experience and see how things were done elsewhere, so they > > would know where the best opportunities were. I think that's why > > clothmaker families are so challenging to track, because sons > > often settled far away from their birthplace, unlike farm people. > > > > Paul Rakow

Rita, The SGKP (Słownik Geograficzny Królestwa Polskiego) has an entry for 'Ciotusza, Stara i Nowa' [Vol 1, page 704]. It states, in part, that its RC parish is located in Krasnobród; that it has a local cerkiew for the Rusyn residents as a filial of the parish in Majdan Sopocki, but having its own parish prior to the Austrian times. It further states that it stands somewhat as an oasis among the Zamojski estates and that it once belonged to the Szeptycki family. You can see a fairly decent map rendition on the WIG series: > http://www.mapywig.org/m/WIG100_300DPI/P47_S36_NAROL_300dpi.jpg Roman On 11/9/2012 10:00 PM, Rita wrote: > > Does anyone know the history of these two villages.....not much can be > found online. I would like to learn how they came to being and when > where they founded?? Is there a family behind the establishment of these > two?? > > Thank you in advance, > Rita >

Hello Debbie, Vera, One of my ancestors moved from Ozorkow (a few miles from Zgierz) to Knyszyn near Bialystok at about the same time, 1831. Along with about 20 other clothmakers from the town, he first tried to get permission to move to the Bialystok area in the 1820s. I was lucky enough to find some documents about his first attempt in the Warsaw archives. Here's what he said: ====== 7 August, 1824, Ozorkow Gottlieb Huebner, cloth manufacturer, presented himself in person, and testified: My name is Gottlieb Huebner, my profession is cloth-maker. I was born in the town Zaniemysl in the province Poznan. The last place I lived in was the town Pyzdry; I came to live in Ozorkow three years ago. I have my own house, on a site with 2 morgens of land. I also own the machines needed to pursue my trade, and some household equipment. 1) So you intend to emigrate to Russia? Why? Answer to 1) I intend to move to Russia, if I am permitted. The reason is simply that the market in our goods is poor, because of the increasing number of large factories, such as the Harrer factory in Sieradz. Trade has declined noticeably, and I believe it is bound to collapse. I do not have any other reasons, and I am not suffering from any injustices. The only thing I need to mention in conclusion is that the Squire of the Ozorkow estate has already sold the grist and fulling mills to be used as manufacturies, and is depriving us of opportunities to use the fulling mill. This lack will soon be, in fact already is, felt by us. We, the manufacturers of Ozorkow, only have one fulling mill; a very poor one, at that. As for my public liabilities, I have nothing to say. I am only liable for the town treasury tax, labour duty, and the school fee. I have no reason to complain about public burdens. This is my honest testimony, in witness whereof I sign with my own hand. I state that no one urged me to move to Russia, and that I am certain I know of no one who would urge it. Gottlieb Huebner ============= So, as Debbie guessed, its mostly economic reasons. One reason for a lot of cloth-makers leaving the Lodz region and moving to Bialystok was that the Russians had put up the customs duty to keep cheap cloth from the Polish provinces out of Russia proper. Bialystok at that time was on the Russian side of the customs line, so some of the big industrialists from the Lodz region opened up factories in Bialystok, and many of the small clothmakers moved too. I'll have to check on the date that the customs were raised - but I think it was soon after the 1830 Polish uprising. Also, clothmaking in the 1800s was still run on the guild system. After their apprenticeship a young clothmaker had to several years travelling around working in different towns to gain experience and see how things were done elsewhere, so they would know where the best opportunities were. I think that's why clothmaker families are so challenging to track, because sons often settled far away from their birthplace, unlike farm people. Paul Rakow Debbie Greenlee <daveg@airmail.net> wrote: > > Vera, > > There are no stupid questions. You've heard that before right? It's > true, however, I don't think anyone here can answer your question > definitively. > > If adult children were married they _might not_ have followed the > parents to another place. If the adult children were unmarried then > they probably would have moved with their parents. > > People moved long distances to seek a better life and more work. Word > of more work/lack of certain craftsmen got around; newspapers, word of > mouth. Most people at this time did not own land so it wasn't a big > deal to move. A clothmaker's sons would have worked for him or with him. > > You don't have to necessarily hire someone (especially in Bia?ystok) > to look for records. LDS has filmed Lutheran records for this city > covering 1841-1886. But these records would only help if you think > your ancestors were baptized and/or married in the Bia?ystok parish. > http://tinyurl.com/atfl78j [snip] > Debbie > -------------------------- > Vera Miller wrote: >> Hello all, >> I am trying to research the path of my Kretzer family. >> My great-great-great-grandmother Pauline Kretzer was born in 1836 in a > village near Zgierz and Lodz. She married Carl Hoffmann, born 1835 in > Ciechanowiec, near Bialystok. At the time of marriage, Pauline was > living > in Ratowiec near Bialystok. > >> Would it be correct to assume Pauline traveled from Zgierz to near > Bialystok with her parents as an unmarried woman? The Kretzers were > clothmakers. Would all the unmarried children of my > great-great-great-great-grandparents be expected to relocate near > Bialystok or would all grown children (unmarried and married) be > expected to relocate? How would the clothmakers know to relocate to > another city like Bialystok? Would the entire extended family be > offered employment in clothmaking? Sorry if this sounds like stupid > questions. >> I am trying to determine whether it would be worth my money to have > Bialystok archives search for Kretzer in Bialystok evangelical > lutherans records. I do not know whether Kretzer was a common name in > this area for the German population. >> Vera >>

Does anyone know the history of these two villages.....not much can be found online. I would like to learn how they came to being and when where they founded?? Is there a family behind the establishment of these two?? Thank you in advance, Rita ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2793 / Virus Database: 2624/5884 - Release Date: 11/09/12

Doing a quick search I found a Martha Gunia born to Martin Gunia and Agnes Boldys in Feb 1919 and her death was in March 1919 in LaSalle, IL. This was on Family Search. You can also find the family in several censuses that are very easy to access on Family Search and Ancestry.com. Hope this helps. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kris D" <annabean01@hotmail.com> To: <POLAND-ROOTS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 8:38 PM Subject: [POLAND] Martin/Marcin Gunia > ANY help would be much appreciated. > Martin/Marcin Gunia – b. about 1872 in Poland (possibly Zembryzce) d. 1961 > LaSalle Illinois > Wife: Agnes/Agneizska Pauldis/Baldys b. 1884 d. 1955 > > Arrived in US 1903 and/or 1906 via Canada. > > I’m stuck....hit a big old brick wall. > > This above info is all I know about Martin. > It’s like he arrived in Illinois (via Canada) from thin air. I can’t find > anything about him or Agnes. > Please help me find more about him and Agnes. > > Kris > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as > long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: > researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

ANY help would be much appreciated. Martin/Marcin Gunia – b. about 1872 in Poland (possibly Zembryzce) d. 1961 LaSalle Illinois Wife: Agnes/Agneizska Pauldis/Baldys b. 1884 d. 1955 Arrived in US 1903 and/or 1906 via Canada. I’m stuck....hit a big old brick wall. This above info is all I know about Martin. It’s like he arrived in Illinois (via Canada) from thin air. I can’t find anything about him or Agnes. Please help me find more about him and Agnes. Kris

History in Polish: http://dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_I/704 They have a webpage for Ciotusza Nowa on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ciotusza-Nowa/150637871698025 Maybe if you become a member, and start writing questions, someone who knows of the place first hand will write about it for you. This will help you with translations: http://translate.google.com/#pl|en| Tina Ellis On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 7:00 PM, Rita <rciot@suddenlink.net> wrote: > > Does anyone know the history of these two villages.....not much can be > found online. I would like to learn how they came to being and when > where they founded?? Is there a family behind the establishment of these > two?? > > Thank you in advance, > Rita > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.2793 / Virus Database: 2624/5884 - Release Date: 11/09/12 > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as > long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: > researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Debbie Do you have an August Huebner d. 1901 birth unknown Had a daughter Emelia B. 11-14-1864 came from this same area , in your research ?? would appreciate hearing from you -----Original Message----- From: poland-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:poland-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Greenlee Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 5:35 PM To: poland-roots@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [POLAND] family relocation in 1830s Paul, This is great stuff! Where did you find all of this information? I know it wasn't in English. . . Debbie whose own family were farmers. Paul Rakow wrote: > Hello Debbie, Vera, > > One of my ancestors moved from Ozorkow (a few miles from Zgierz) > to Knyszyn near Bialystok at about the same time, 1831. > > Along with about 20 other clothmakers from the town, he first > tried to get permission to move to the Bialystok area in the 1820s. > I was lucky enough to find some documents about his first attempt > in the Warsaw archives. Here's what he said: > > ====== > > 7 August, 1824, Ozorkow > > Gottlieb Huebner, cloth manufacturer, presented himself in person, > and testified: > > My name is Gottlieb Huebner, my profession is cloth-maker. I was born > in the town Zaniemysl in the province Poznan. The last place I lived > in was the town Pyzdry; I came to live in Ozorkow three years ago. I > have my own house, on a site with 2 morgens of land. I also own the > machines needed to pursue my trade, and some household equipment. > > 1) So you intend to emigrate to Russia? Why? > > Answer to 1) > > I intend to move to Russia, if I am permitted. The reason is simply > that the market in our goods is poor, because of the increasing number > of large factories, such as the Harrer factory in Sieradz. Trade has > declined noticeably, and I believe it is bound to collapse. > > I do not have any other reasons, and I am not suffering from any > injustices. The only thing I need to mention in conclusion is that > the Squire of the Ozorkow estate has already sold the grist and > fulling mills to be used as manufacturies, and is depriving us of > opportunities to use the fulling mill. This lack will soon be, in > fact already is, felt by us. We, the manufacturers of Ozorkow, only > have one fulling mill; a very poor one, at that. > > As for my public liabilities, I have nothing to say. I am only liable > for the town treasury tax, labour duty, and the school fee. I have no > reason to complain about public burdens. > > This is my honest testimony, in witness whereof I sign with my own > hand. I state that no one urged me to move to Russia, and that I am > certain I know of no one who would urge it. > > Gottlieb Huebner > > ============= > > So, as Debbie guessed, its mostly economic reasons. > > One reason for a lot of cloth-makers leaving the Lodz > region and moving to Bialystok was that the Russians had put up the > customs duty to keep cheap cloth from the Polish provinces out > of Russia proper. Bialystok at that time was on the Russian side > of the customs line, so some of the big industrialists from the > Lodz region opened up factories in Bialystok, and many of the > small clothmakers moved too. I'll have to check on the date that > the customs were raised - but I think it was soon after the 1830 > Polish uprising. > > Also, clothmaking in the 1800s was still run on the guild > system. After their apprenticeship a young clothmaker had to > several years travelling around working in different towns to > gain experience and see how things were done elsewhere, so they > would know where the best opportunities were. I think that's why > clothmaker families are so challenging to track, because sons > often settled far away from their birthplace, unlike farm people. > > Paul Rakow > > Debbie Greenlee <daveg@airmail.net> wrote: >> Vera, >> >> There are no stupid questions. You've heard that before right? It's >> true, however, I don't think anyone here can answer your question >> definitively. >> >> If adult children were married they _might not_ have followed the >> parents to another place. If the adult children were unmarried then >> they probably would have moved with their parents. >> >> People moved long distances to seek a better life and more work. Word >> of more work/lack of certain craftsmen got around; newspapers, word of >> mouth. Most people at this time did not own land so it wasn't a big >> deal to move. A clothmaker's sons would have worked for him or with him. >> >> You don't have to necessarily hire someone (especially in Bia?ystok) >> to look for records. LDS has filmed Lutheran records for this city >> covering 1841-1886. But these records would only help if you think >> your ancestors were baptized and/or married in the Bia?ystok parish. >> http://tinyurl.com/atfl78j > >> Debbie > ********************************* Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com ---------------------------------- Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our Polish roots. ---------------------------------- Browse the list's archives here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots Search the list's archives here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Paul, Sounds as if you hit the jackpot with this document. What is the title of the document. Is it a permission to emigrate? This document give much more self-information than many documents contain. Thanks for any light you might shed on a document of this type. Dorothy On Nov 9, 2012, at 3:10 PM, Paul Rakow wrote: Hello Debbie, Vera, One of my ancestors moved from Ozorkow (a few miles from Zgierz) to Knyszyn near Bialystok at about the same time, 1831. Along with about 20 other clothmakers from the town, he first tried to get permission to move to the Bialystok area in the 1820s. I was lucky enough to find some documents about his first attempt in the Warsaw archives. Here's what he said: ====== 7 August, 1824, Ozorkow Gottlieb Huebner, cloth manufacturer, presented himself in person, and testified: My name is Gottlieb Huebner, my profession is cloth-maker. I was born in the town Zaniemysl in the province Poznan. The last place I lived in was the town Pyzdry; I came to live in Ozorkow three years ago. I have my own house, on a site with 2 morgens of land. I also own the machines needed to pursue my trade, and some household equipment. 1) So you intend to emigrate to Russia? Why? Answer to 1) I intend to move to Russia, if I am permitted. The reason is simply that the market in our goods is poor, because of the increasing number of large factories, such as the Harrer factory in Sieradz. Trade has declined noticeably, and I believe it is bound to collapse. I do not have any other reasons, and I am not suffering from any injustices. The only thing I need to mention in conclusion is that the Squire of the Ozorkow estate has already sold the grist and fulling mills to be used as manufacturies, and is depriving us of opportunities to use the fulling mill. This lack will soon be, in fact already is, felt by us. We, the manufacturers of Ozorkow, only have one fulling mill; a very poor one, at that. As for my public liabilities, I have nothing to say. I am only liable for the town treasury tax, labour duty, and the school fee. I have no reason to complain about public burdens. This is my honest testimony, in witness whereof I sign with my own hand. I state that no one urged me to move to Russia, and that I am certain I know of no one who would urge it. Gottlieb Huebner ============= So, as Debbie guessed, its mostly economic reasons. One reason for a lot of cloth-makers leaving the Lodz region and moving to Bialystok was that the Russians had put up the customs duty to keep cheap cloth from the Polish provinces out of Russia proper. Bialystok at that time was on the Russian side of the customs line, so some of the big industrialists from the Lodz region opened up factories in Bialystok, and many of the small clothmakers moved too. I'll have to check on the date that the customs were raised - but I think it was soon after the 1830 Polish uprising. Also, clothmaking in the 1800s was still run on the guild system. After their apprenticeship a young clothmaker had to several years travelling around working in different towns to gain experience and see how things were done elsewhere, so they would know where the best opportunities were. I think that's why clothmaker families are so challenging to track, because sons often settled far away from their birthplace, unlike farm people. Paul Rakow Debbie Greenlee <daveg@airmail.net> wrote: > > Vera, > > There are no stupid questions. You've heard that before right? It's > true, however, I don't think anyone here can answer your question > definitively. > > If adult children were married they _might not_ have followed the > parents to another place. If the adult children were unmarried then > they probably would have moved with their parents. > > People moved long distances to seek a better life and more work. Word > of more work/lack of certain craftsmen got around; newspapers, word of > mouth. Most people at this time did not own land so it wasn't a big > deal to move. A clothmaker's sons would have worked for him or with him. > > You don't have to necessarily hire someone (especially in Bia?ystok) > to look for records. LDS has filmed Lutheran records for this city > covering 1841-1886. But these records would only help if you think > your ancestors were baptized and/or married in the Bia?ystok parish. > http://tinyurl.com/atfl78j [snip] > Debbie > -------------------------- > Vera Miller wrote: >> Hello all, >> I am trying to research the path of my Kretzer family. >> My great-great-great-grandmother Pauline Kretzer was born in 1836 in a > village near Zgierz and Lodz. She married Carl Hoffmann, born 1835 in > Ciechanowiec, near Bialystok. At the time of marriage, Pauline was > living > in Ratowiec near Bialystok. > >> Would it be correct to assume Pauline traveled from Zgierz to near > Bialystok with her parents as an unmarried woman? The Kretzers were > clothmakers. Would all the unmarried children of my > great-great-great-great-grandparents be expected to relocate near > Bialystok or would all grown children (unmarried and married) be > expected to relocate? How would the clothmakers know to relocate to > another city like Bialystok? Would the entire extended family be > offered employment in clothmaking? Sorry if this sounds like stupid > questions. >> I am trying to determine whether it would be worth my money to have > Bialystok archives search for Kretzer in Bialystok evangelical > lutherans records. I do not know whether Kretzer was a common name in > this area for the German population. >> Vera >> ********************************* Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com ---------------------------------- Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our Polish roots. ---------------------------------- Browse the list's archives here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots Search the list's archives here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message