Jenny: Forgot to add to my epistle--there are numerous Tokar in the Castle Garden records, three of which may fit for you. Check your local library or LDS FHC for access to Ancestry's New York Immigration Lists which includes both Castle Garden & Ellis Island. PolishDragon@att.net

--- On Sun, 11/18/12, Jenny <jennygirl@unwired.com.au> wrote: > Thank you Roman and everyone for all > the look ups that you have done however I think that I > should be looking for the name Tokar or Tucker as Maryanna > Ogorzaly was married to Stanislaus Tokar or Tucker by the > time they came through Ellis Island; I have proof that their > son Michael who was born in Barcice, Krakow, Poland 1867. So > it looks like Stanislaus Tokar and Maryanna Ogorzaly married > in Poland then came out with their family around 1879 as > this is what son Michael states in 1930 census. Maybe he > came on his own > > I will try Ellis Island site again with the name Tokar or > Tucker as they were known in America. Jenny: Why search Ellis Island again? Let me play Devil's Advocate here. Ellis Island did not exist in 1879! It was not opened until 1892. You could search Castle Island records at Ancestry.com, but be aware that early arrival records do NOT usually state where the individual came from other than "Prussia", "Hungary", " England" etc. So the best you could do is find them arriving, their age, occupation, etc. You could find the ship name and port of embarkation and then search from the other end, but not gain any other information, usually. What does his naturalization say for ship name? If I recall pre-1900 naturalizations correctly, they say "I renounce allegiance to the King/Emporer/Queen of (insert country) and have two people state that they have been in country 5 years and are of good character. My best advice would be to search for the Polish-born person's USA CHURCH marriage record and hope that the priest/minister noted place of baptism as he was supposed to do. Next the first child's baptism record for the same information. Possibly a death/burial Church record might have this info also. I believe Roman is trying to tell you that you might have to search aunts, uncles and cousins to find the village/locality in Poland. And he has found others with the same name from the same locality.

Q. I an researching Stanislaus TOKAR (there a few alternate > spellings) and wife Marianna OGORZATY abt 1867. I have found > one son Michael who was baptised 22 Sep 1867, 63 Barcice, > Barcice, Krak?w, Poland.? In the Poland Tarnow Roman > Catholic Diocese. A. I found two with that name on the ellisisland website, from Barczyce (Barcice) and nearby Moszczenica, they could be relatives/descendants of your Maryanna. Joe Thank you all, for your input to my question and for the correct Polish spellings. I have Mike "Tucker" born 1867 Poland all sowen up once in America; I am now looking to "peel the onion" back in Poland. I have tried the Ellis Island site Joe and I am not able to find the entries that you mention. Have I the correct spelling for Maryanna's husband who must have come with her through Ellis Island; I am wondering if it will show how many children came with them. I guess I should be looking for the last name of TOKAR?? JENNY Is it possible to let me know what data you entered to get the two results. Many thanks again to all those who have shown an interest in my research...Jenny

I am not so sure that it would be Kraków. There are many places named Karolew, Karolewo, Karolów, and Karolówka (including a city) in Poland. Eveline, you might want to provide more information about the source of your spelling. That could be a clue to where one should point. Roman On 11/17/2012 2:25 PM, W David Samuelsen wrote: > more likely Krakow (Crakow) > > David s. > > On 11/17/2012 9:16 AM, Eveline Tiefenbach wrote: >> HI Everyone >> >> >> Can someone please tell me where Karolows is, may be spelled wrong. Any help appreciated, thank you >> >> >> Eveline Tiefenbach

Jenny, Have you considered Tokarczyk as a possible originating surname. I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the Ellis Island results. For example, traveling together on the same ship in 1907 we have Jozef Tokarczyk, age 20, Barcice, came to his acquaintance Jakob Ogorzaly in Lorain, Ohio in 1907. Jakob Tokarczyk, age 20, Barcice, came to his cousin Jan Ogorzały (misspelt Ogorrały) in Lorain. Piotr Gawrol, 21, hanger-on, came with them to his acquaintance Jan Jakubowski in Lorain. and two years later traveling together were Tomasz Tokarczyk, 17, son of Maria in Barczyce, came to his brother Jakob Tokarczyk in Lorain. Jakub Ogoczaly, 38, husband of Elzbieta Ogoczaly in Barczyce, came to his brother-in-law Jan Jakubowski in Lorain. And in 1901 Elzbieta Tokarczyk (spelt Elgdiela Tokarozyk), 23, came from Barczyce. Note all the variations on the surnames. Well, you get the picture. There is a lot more. Roman On 11/17/2012 3:15 PM, Jenny wrote: > Q. I an researching Stanislaus TOKAR (there a few alternate >> spellings) and wife Marianna OGORZATY abt 1867. I have found one >> son Michael who was baptised 22 Sep 1867, 63 Barcice, Barcice, >> Krak?w, Poland.? In the Poland Tarnow Roman Catholic Diocese. > > A. I found two with that name on the ellisisland website, from > Barczyce (Barcice) and nearby Moszczenica, they could be > relatives/descendants of your Maryanna. Joe > > Thank you all, for your input to my question and for the correct > Polish spellings. I have Mike "Tucker" born 1867 Poland all sowen up > once in America; I am now looking to "peel the onion" back in Poland. > I have tried the Ellis Island site Joe and I am not able to find the > entries that you mention. Have I the correct spelling for Maryanna's > husband who must have come with her through Ellis Island; I am > wondering if it will show how many children came with them. I guess I > should be looking for the last name of TOKAR?? JENNY > > Is it possible to let me know what data you entered to get the two > results. > > Many thanks again to all those who have shown an interest in my > research...Jenny >

I checked a Poland online atlas at http://www.mapa.szukacz.pl, and found there is no place named Karolows. There are other places named three places named Karolow and seven named Karolowka. You are going to need to figure out what it was close to or the name of the old powait (county) or wojtwodztwo (province). The ones with the name Karolow are in pow. & woj. (co. and prov.) are in Pinczowski, Swietokrzyskie and two are in Lipski, Mazowieckie. Tina Ellis On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 8:16 AM, Eveline Tiefenbach <liebeemmi@aol.com>wrote: > HI Everyone > > > Can someone please tell me where Karolows is, may be spelled wrong. Any > help appreciated, thank you > > > Eveline Tiefenbach > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as > long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: > researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

more likely Krakow (Crakow) David s. On 11/17/2012 9:16 AM, Eveline Tiefenbach wrote: > HI Everyone > > > Can someone please tell me where Karolows is, may be spelled wrong. Any help appreciated, thank you > > > Eveline Tiefenbach

HI Everyone Can someone please tell me where Karolows is, may be spelled wrong. Any help appreciated, thank you Eveline Tiefenbach

Hello my fellow Dragon Thank you for such a speedy reply. I am certain about the Tucker family in the 1930 and 1940 census; I am researching with the grandson and he has the evidence that we are working with the correct family. Jenny Michael immigrated to America and changed his name to Mike > Tucker and I first find him in American 1930 census, married > to Annie ? I don't have a last name for her however the > census records that she too is from Poland. Jenny: I see several Michael/Mike Tokar/Tucker in various records; however, the only one in the 1930 census which you note is the fellow in Pennsylvania, Cambria, West Carroll, ED 11-121, Sheet 25A(156)with wife Annie and sons, Mike, born PA 1906, Mary, 1908, Freddy, 1915 and John 1921. He states he is naturalized, but I don't see one in the various indexes. What makes you think this 1930 one is your fellow? and if he is, possibly one of our Pennsylvania coal mining area experts can assist you. PolishDragon@att.net

--- On Thu, 11/15/12, Jenny <jennygirl@unwired.com.au> wrote: > I an researching Stanislaus TOKAR (there a few alternate > spellings) and wife Marianna OGORZATY abt 1867. I have found > one son Michael who was baptised 22 Sep 1867, 63 Barcice, > Barcice, Kraków, Poland.  In the Poland Tarnow Roman > Catholic Diocese. > > Michael immigrated to America and changed his name to Mike > Tucker and I first find him in American 1930 census, married > to Annie ? I don't have a last name for her however the > census records that she too is from Poland. Jenny: I see several Michael/Mike Tokar/Tucker in various records; however, the only one in the 1930 census which you note is the fellow in Pennsylvania, Cambria, West Carroll, ED 11-121, Sheet 25A(156)with wife Annie and sons, Mike, born PA 1906, Mary, 1908, Freddy, 1915 and John 1921. He states he is naturalized, but I don't see one in the various indexes. What makes you think this 1930 one is your fellow? and if he is, possibly one of our Pennsylvania coal mining area experts can assist you. PolishDragon@att.net

Hello Listers I have just joined 5 mins ago and live in the land down under, Australia. I an researching Stanislaus TOKAR (there a few alternate spellings) and wife Marianna OGORZATY abt 1867. I have found one son Michael who was baptised 22 Sep 1867, 63 Barcice, Barcice, Kraków, Poland. In the Poland Tarnow Roman Catholic Diocese. Michael immigrated to America and changed his name to Mike Tucker and I first find him in American 1930 census, married to Annie ? I don't have a last name for her however the census records that she too is from Poland. I am using Ancestry and Find My Past for research however I think that I have gone as far as I can go with these two sites. I would love to find out the following 1Did Stanislaus TOKAR and wife Marianna OGORZATY come to America and when along with any little bit of extra information. 2Mike TUCKER come to America abt 1879 according to my maths with the 1930 census and Annie ? came later in 1901 I would love to find the immigration record for both and marriage record. I do hope someone can give me a you beaut suggestion on how to research Polish family. Yours in hope Jenny

Jenny, I can confirm Joe's remarks on the surname. The late Prof. Rymut published an Index of surnames currently (2002) used in Poland. A scan of that index shows there are only the following surnames that: Begin with OG, then contain O or Ó, then RZA ... > 1: [Map] Ogorzał 5 = ( 1, 4); > 2: [Map] Ogorzała 75 = ( 5, 70); > 3: [Map] Ogorzałek 2084 = ( 1060, 1024); > 4: [Map] Ogorzalska 2 = ( 0, 2); > 5: [Map] Ogorzały 513 = ( 295, 218); The numbers are male/female population counts. Although Ogorzała is the female form for Ogorzały, we also see that most females currently use the male form. And I will add that it is easy to to confuse an 'ł' with a 't' in transcribing script. Most of the time it is familiarity or knowledge of the language that is required to sort out the mistake. Note that the Ellis Island transcriptions contain the same mistake for a number of passengers with these surnames. Roman On 11/16/2012 8:54 AM, Armata, Joseph R wrote: > Just one bit of input, the surname Ogorzaty looks wrong for Polish - > it's more than likely really Ogorzaly, with a bar through the "l" so > it could be mistaken for a "t". That means sunburned or tanned. > > > In Polish, the surname is an adjective so its ending changes for > males and females, so her name would be Maryanna Ogorzala (with a > barred l). I found two with that name on the ellisisland website, > from Barczyce (Barcice) and nearby Moszczenica, they could be > relatives/descendants of your Maryanna. > > Joe > > > Hello Listers > > I an researching Stanislaus TOKAR (there a few alternate spellings) > and wife Marianna OGORZATY abt 1867. I have found one son Michael who > was baptised 22 Sep 1867, 63 Barcice, Barcice, Kraków, Poland. In > the Poland Tarnow Roman Catholic Diocese. > > Michael immigrated to America and changed his name to Mike Tucker and > I first find him in American 1930 census, married to Annie ? I don't > have a last name for her however the census records that she too is > from Poland. > > I am using Ancestry and Find My Past for research however I think > that I have gone as far as I can go with these two sites. I would > love to find out the following > > 1Did Stanislaus TOKAR and wife Marianna OGORZATY come to America and > when along with any little bit of extra information. > > 2Mike TUCKER come to America abt 1879 according to my maths with the > 1930 census and Annie ? came later in 1901 I would love to find the > immigration record for both and marriage record. > > I do hope someone can give me a you beaut suggestion on how to > research Polish family. > > Yours in hope > > Jenny

Just one bit of input, the surname Ogorzaty looks wrong for Polish - it's more than likely really Ogorzaly, with a bar through the "l" so it could be mistaken for a "t". That means sunburned or tanned. In Polish, the surname is an adjective so its ending changes for males and females, so her name would be Maryanna Ogorzala (with a barred l). I found two with that name on the ellisisland website, from Barczyce (Barcice) and nearby Moszczenica, they could be relatives/descendants of your Maryanna. Joe -----Original Message----- From: poland-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:poland-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jenny Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 7:19 PM To: POLAND-ROOTS@rootsweb.com Subject: [POLAND] Stanislaus Tokar and wife Marianna Ogorzaty abt 1867 Hello Listers I have just joined 5 mins ago and live in the land down under, Australia. I an researching Stanislaus TOKAR (there a few alternate spellings) and wife Marianna OGORZATY abt 1867. I have found one son Michael who was baptised 22 Sep 1867, 63 Barcice, Barcice, Kraków, Poland. In the Poland Tarnow Roman Catholic Diocese. Michael immigrated to America and changed his name to Mike Tucker and I first find him in American 1930 census, married to Annie ? I don't have a last name for her however the census records that she too is from Poland. I am using Ancestry and Find My Past for research however I think that I have gone as far as I can go with these two sites. I would love to find out the following 1Did Stanislaus TOKAR and wife Marianna OGORZATY come to America and when along with any little bit of extra information. 2Mike TUCKER come to America abt 1879 according to my maths with the 1930 census and Annie ? came later in 1901 I would love to find the immigration record for both and marriage record. I do hope someone can give me a you beaut suggestion on how to research Polish family. Yours in hope Jenny ********************************* Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com ---------------------------------- Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our Polish roots. ---------------------------------- Browse the list's archives here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots Search the list's archives here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks, Amelia. Too bad the license did not have the name of the priest or church where they were married, and you had to call around. (I've seen some licenses where that info was listed) On Nov 14, 2012, at 6:37 PM, nurse20201@verizon.net wrote: > > I did order Philadelphia marriage records from LDS Did not have the name of > the parents. Had the birth dates which were wrong. Place of birth was just > Russia/ Poland for both of them.. Had the place of residence at the time of > applying for license and their occupation. Also whether they were ever > married before . This was 1912. I called a few churches in Phil and found > out he was married at St. Adalbert. which was and still is a Polish > Catholic church. They copied the info from the old book and I sent them a > donation. That contained a lot of info. > > Amelia > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > Chris Smolinski Black Cat Systems http://www.blackcatsystems.com

I did order Philadelphia marriage records from LDS Did not have the name of the parents. Had the birth dates which were wrong. Place of birth was just Russia/ Poland for both of them.. Had the place of residence at the time of applying for license and their occupation. Also whether they were ever married before . This was 1912. I called a few churches in Phil and found out he was married at St. Adalbert. which was and still is a Polish Catholic church. They copied the info from the old book and I sent them a donation. That contained a lot of info. Amelia

On Nov 14, 2012, at 1:46 PM, polishdragon@att.net wrote: > --- On Wed, 11/14/12, Chris Smolinski <csmolinski@blackcatsystems.com> wrote: > >> Has anyone ever obtained copies of >> marriage licenses from Philadelphia, circa 1900-1915? I'm >> considering ordering some microfilms of them at the FHC, but >> before I do, I want to know how detailed they are. Do they >> have information like the name of the bride's and groom's >> parents, date/place of birth, etc., or do they just have the >> name of the bride and groom, and little else. (In which case >> they won't be of much use to me) > > Chris: I agree that you should be sure that you are not just getting an index film. Also, be aware that Philadelphia is known to be exceedingly slow in response. > Also, be sure to check Ancestry's Pennsylvania, Church and Town Records, 1708-1985. They have all kinds of stuff thrown in there from southern PA and parts of New Jersey. Just a search on your surname, showed six hits mostly early 1900 and before. Good luck > PolishDragon@att.net > I have already checked, it is not an index only film. The collection of 600 FHL microfilms has both indexes and the actual licenses (the indexes are on the FHL familysearch.org page for free, in case anyone else is interested). Plus it avoids me having to deal with the very slow Philadelphia clerk, as you mentioned :-) Yes, I've made heavy use of the Ancestry PA church records - a very handy collection! Chris Smolinski Black Cat Systems http://www.blackcatsystems.com

Chris, I am unfamiliar with Philadelphia marriage licenses, however, most marriage licenses do not contain much more than the couple's names, city of residence and signature of the above as well as the officiant. Marriage license _applications_ have much more information, if they have been archived. Debbie Chris Smolinski wrote: > On Nov 14, 2012, at 1:46 PM, polishdragon@att.net wrote: > >> --- On Wed, 11/14/12, Chris Smolinski <csmolinski@blackcatsystems.com> wrote: >> >>> Has anyone ever obtained copies of >>> marriage licenses from Philadelphia, circa 1900-1915? I'm >>> considering ordering some microfilms of them at the FHC, but >>> before I do, I want to know how detailed they are. Do they >>> have information like the name of the bride's and groom's >>> parents, date/place of birth, etc., or do they just have the >>> name of the bride and groom, and little else. (In which case >>> they won't be of much use to me) >> Chris: I agree that you should be sure that you are not just getting an index film. Also, be aware that Philadelphia is known to be exceedingly slow in response. >> Also, be sure to check Ancestry's Pennsylvania, Church and Town Records, 1708-1985. They have all kinds of stuff thrown in there from southern PA and parts of New Jersey. Just a search on your surname, showed six hits mostly early 1900 and before. Good luck >> PolishDragon@att.net >> > > I have already checked, it is not an index only film. The collection of 600 FHL microfilms has both indexes and the actual licenses (the indexes are on the FHL familysearch.org page for free, in case anyone else is interested). Plus it avoids me having to deal with the very slow Philadelphia clerk, as you mentioned :-) > > Yes, I've made heavy use of the Ancestry PA church records - a very handy collection! > > Chris Smolinski > Black Cat Systems > http://www.blackcatsystems.com >

Paul, Thank you very much. It sounds like a lot of work, but these kinds of records could really flesh out the lives of our kin. For me, it is more than just name, date, and place. These have become real people, though removed by time and place, I feel a real kinship with them. Dorothy On Nov 13, 2012, at 2:33 PM, Paul Rakow wrote: Hello Debbie, and all the others who asked, I found these records mostly by luck, (or at least by looking at lots of less interesting records, till I hit the jackpot). As you guessed, the originals were in Polish - I'm fluent in German and English, but my Polish still needs a lot of work. But, it was enough to recognise that I'd stumbled across something interesting, and to get the gist of it - I paid a translator here to do the full translation. These particular records weren't specifically about emigration, they just featured in a big volume of records about the cloth industry, which had reports and correspondence about all sorts of different matters connected with cloth manufacture. The particular records I found weren't there because the Polish authorities were interested in emigration as a whole, but because they were worried about what would happen in Ozorkow if all the clothmakers ran away. The "call number" for this collection of documents was AGAD Kom Woj Kal II 2233 AGAD is the name of the archive in Warsaw, (Main Archive of Historical Records) Kom Woj Kal is the abbreviation for the Fond, (fond 228, or zespoly 228), Kom Woj Kal is short for Komisja Wojewodztwa Kaliskiego which was one of the bodies involved in administrating the area. For details about the kommission, try a google-translate on page http://baza.archiwa.gov.pl/sezam/sezam.php?l=pl&mode=show&zespoly_id=228 (but you may need to use your imagination too). II (two) is a subdivision of the fond, 2233 is the actual call number within the fond. ------ I started looking at government records about 10 years ago, after I thought I'd seen all the church records for the places my ancestors lived. It's challenging, but can pay off and give you really good finds like the one below. But more often you will just find your ancestor's name in a list of tax-payers; but I find that interesting too, you can see whether they were well off or not, compared with the other people in the town or village. You have to be happy with anything you might find. Archives are almost always organised on the provenance principle, with records catalogued in fonds, which group together all the records made by a particular organisation. Within the fond, the titles of the units are usually the original titles, which don't always describe the contents very helpfully. For historians this is really the only good way to organise things, it means you really know the context of a document. But it makes things harder for us amateurs, you have to try and figure out which ministries, courts, or other bureaucracy would have been interested in your ancestors, and then look for documents concerning the exact place or occupation your ancestor had. And be prepared to look through a lot of uninteresting records before you find the good ones. You have to hope your ancestor was a trouble-maker --- they have longer files than the good citizens. The book, "Going Home", by Jonathan Shea is very good for giving you an idea of the sorts of documents you might find in archives in Poland. But sadly it's mostly not the sort of thing you can just write to an archive and ask for - the volume with all the fascinating details about your ancestor won't be the same one that has the good stuff about my ancestor - you either have to look for yourself, or hire a good researcher. I hope this answers at least some of the questions I've been asked, Paul Rakow Debbie Greenlee <daveg@airmail.net> wrote: > > Paul, > > This is great stuff! Where did you find all of this information? I > know it wasn't in English. . . > > Debbie whose own family were farmers. > > Paul Rakow wrote: >> Hello Debbie, Vera, >> >> One of my ancestors moved from Ozorkow (a few miles from Zgierz) >> to Knyszyn near Bialystok at about the same time, 1831. >> >> Along with about 20 other clothmakers from the town, he first >> tried to get permission to move to the Bialystok area in the 1820s. >> I was lucky enough to find some documents about his first attempt >> in the Warsaw archives. Here's what he said: >> >> ====== >> >> 7 August, 1824, Ozorkow >> >> Gottlieb Huebner, cloth manufacturer, presented himself in person, >> and testified: >> >> My name is Gottlieb Huebner, my profession is cloth-maker. I was born >> in the town Zaniemysl in the province Poznan. The last place I lived >> in was the town Pyzdry; I came to live in Ozorkow three years ago. I >> have my own house, on a site with 2 morgens of land. I also own the >> machines needed to pursue my trade, and some household equipment. >> >> 1) So you intend to emigrate to Russia? Why? >> >> Answer to 1) >> >> I intend to move to Russia, if I am permitted. The reason is simply >> that the market in our goods is poor, because of the increasing number >> of large factories, such as the Harrer factory in Sieradz. Trade has >> declined noticeably, and I believe it is bound to collapse. >> >> I do not have any other reasons, and I am not suffering from any >> injustices. The only thing I need to mention in conclusion is that >> the Squire of the Ozorkow estate has already sold the grist and >> fulling mills to be used as manufacturies, and is depriving us of >> opportunities to use the fulling mill. This lack will soon be, in >> fact already is, felt by us. We, the manufacturers of Ozorkow, only >> have one fulling mill; a very poor one, at that. >> >> As for my public liabilities, I have nothing to say. I am only liable >> for the town treasury tax, labour duty, and the school fee. I have no >> reason to complain about public burdens. >> >> This is my honest testimony, in witness whereof I sign with my own >> hand. I state that no one urged me to move to Russia, and that I am >> certain I know of no one who would urge it. >> >> Gottlieb Huebner >> >> ============= >> >> So, as Debbie guessed, its mostly economic reasons. >> >> One reason for a lot of cloth-makers leaving the Lodz >> region and moving to Bialystok was that the Russians had put up the >> customs duty to keep cheap cloth from the Polish provinces out >> of Russia proper. Bialystok at that time was on the Russian side >> of the customs line, so some of the big industrialists from the >> Lodz region opened up factories in Bialystok, and many of the >> small clothmakers moved too. I'll have to check on the date that >> the customs were raised - but I think it was soon after the 1830 >> Polish uprising. >> >> Also, clothmaking in the 1800s was still run on the guild >> system. After their apprenticeship a young clothmaker had to >> several years travelling around working in different towns to >> gain experience and see how things were done elsewhere, so they >> would know where the best opportunities were. I think that's why >> clothmaker families are so challenging to track, because sons >> often settled far away from their birthplace, unlike farm people. >> >> Paul Rakow >> ********************************* Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com ---------------------------------- Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our Polish roots. ---------------------------------- Browse the list's archives here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots Search the list's archives here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

--- On Wed, 11/14/12, Chris Smolinski <csmolinski@blackcatsystems.com> wrote: > Has anyone ever obtained copies of > marriage licenses from Philadelphia, circa 1900-1915? I'm > considering ordering some microfilms of them at the FHC, but > before I do, I want to know how detailed they are. Do they > have information like the name of the bride's and groom's > parents, date/place of birth, etc., or do they just have the > name of the bride and groom, and little else. (In which case > they won't be of much use to me) Chris: I agree that you should be sure that you are not just getting an index film. Also, be aware that Philadelphia is known to be exceedingly slow in response. Also, be sure to check Ancestry's Pennsylvania, Church and Town Records, 1708-1985. They have all kinds of stuff thrown in there from southern PA and parts of New Jersey. Just a search on your surname, showed six hits mostly early 1900 and before. Good luck PolishDragon@att.net

Make sure before you order the film, that it is not just an index. We found a marriage listing for my cousin's grandparents in 1911 in the online index, but had to order the actual records themselves from whatever government body in Philadelphia handles the Orphans Court records. And the document we ordered did include the names if the bride's parents, although in this case, they did not give the bride's mother's name. I will have to locate my copy of the document to see whether the record only had a blank for the bride's parents or also for the groom. But in this case, the brother (or maybe uncle, I forget right now) of the bride was the one giving permission for her marriage, and that was new information for us, his name. But you also might want to know that if a document is on an LDS microfilm and has been indexed, you can order it from the LDS now for free - they will send scans. This change in procedure, from $2 for photocopies to free scans, is so recent that they still may not have that information anywhere on the FamilySearch site. More information about ordering scans are on the followiing page. The form must be completed and faxed or snail mailed, just the same as if you were ordering a photocopy, but if you include your email address, no payment will be required. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~thecohens/ldsphotocopies.html On 11/14/12, Chris Smolinski <csmolinski@blackcatsystems.com> wrote: > Has anyone ever obtained copies of marriage licenses from Philadelphia, > circa 1900-1915? I'm considering ordering some microfilms of them at the > FHC, but before I do, I want to know how detailed they are. Do they have > information like the name of the bride's and groom's parents, date/place of > birth, etc., or do they just have the name of the bride and groom, and > little else. (In which case they won't be of much use to me)