Sandy, I already have the memories of Stutthof written down. There are 40 pages in Polish about my cousin's capture in Poland and his experiences at the camp. I am slowly translating them into English. My cousin passed away in 2004. I visited the camp with him a few times it was a sad experience for him. He had not been back to the camp since the war. Kuba On May 9, 2008, at 1:07 AM, Sandy Meeks wrote: > Cecelia: What a wonderful story! And Kuba, also. Both of you > need to > pursue your projects! Kuba, I think it is a great idea to go ahead > and get > the memories written down and worry later about getting them out to > others. > I used to work in a small town hospital and one night admitted an > elderly > man whose grandfather had started a bank in Hudson, Michigan years > ago. I > have always loved to hear old people tell their stories, so chatted > w/ him > at length about the history of his family and their place in Hudson's > history. By the time the 3 generations lived there, they had lots of > marvelous historical stories! This old gent had never married, but > lived in > a huge mansion and had collected hundreds of antiques over the > years. Soon, > his nephew came to visit him, his DPOA, and I mentioned the old gent's > history. I said, "I hope you've written all this wonderful > information > down." He said, "No, he's got it all up here." pointing to his > head. Well, > of course, a few months later, the old gent passed away. His home > has been > made into a museum, but, no one got the important information down, > right > from the person who experienced it! So sad. So sad that most of > us are too > busy to keep journals, write stories, or feel too insignificant to > think our > stories matter! > Sandy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cecelia" <cheinric@suddenlink.net> > To: <poland-roots@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 1:35 PM > Subject: Re: [POLAND] Has this happened to anyone else? > > >> Yes, and, if you want the world to know, you could put it into >> a blog >> or >> make a website. Maybe even write a book. These days, besides the >> normal >> publishing route, there is self publishing and also e-books. >> My last older relative is in the hospital now, probably trying >> to die. >> We were going to identify all the old family pictures and label >> them, and >> as >> we looked at the pictures, she was telling me all about the >> people, where >> they lived, their family, and little stories about them. I was >> writing >> down >> everything she said! We didn't get very far, though, before she >> had a >> stroke that affected her vision, then she had hallucinations from the >> meds, >> fell and broke her hip, refused to do therapy and has gone >> downhill ever >> since. That has been about 2 years ago. >> She had her feelings hurt when a university professor gathered >> stories >> of people who had memories of the German Prisoner of War Camp that >> was in >> a >> town 7 miles from my hometown. My aunt had worked there as a >> secretary. >> She told them that she wanted to share her story, but they >> published his >> book without ever contacting her. I talked to someone with the local >> historical group and they said that the interviews were done, but, >> if I >> would interview her and write it up, they would add it online. That >> satisfied my aunt a little. But she still didn't like it that she >> was >> ignored and left out. >> So, I have been working on that story for almost 2 years. She >> keeps >> adding something to the story, or correcting me! >> I have my own memories of going to that camp as a child, so I >> want to >> add those. >> I think it is sad that they wouldn't accept your relative's story. >> I have a friend who is trying to find a publisher for a book >> she has >> written in which she has interveiewed Hispanic WWII vets. She has >> some of >> it online. But, as she looks for a publisher, her subjects in the >> book >> are >> dying. I feel sure that a university press would publish that >> book, but >> she >> wants to have a well known publisher. >> I realized that I couldn't remember any of the stories that her >> father >> used to tell, although people came from all over to listen to him, >> until >> he >> died at age 96-still active and working even on the day he died. >> So, I >> started asking my aunt about what he would tell, and then she started >> telling her own little stories. She is only 16 years older than I >> am, so >> I >> know a lot about what she was talking about. >> She never married or had children, so my sister and I are all her >> family >> left (except for my daughter and grandsons). That family never threw >> anything away and had safes and boxes at their stores where they kept >> everything. I've been going through some of those and they are >> filled >> with >> "treasures". Old deeds going back to 1867 when the town was started, >> abstracts, baptismal certificates, church and Sunday School >> certificates, >> even every gas and electric bill, not to mention store journals. >> I'm writing some of my own memories as people told me that they >> enjoy my >> little stories. And I am putting those, along with my art work >> and some >> photos, on my blog. After teaching journalism, and writing for >> newspapers, >> I have decided that I can't wait around for acceptance by a >> publisher. I >> had better just get things down while I can still remember them, >> and am >> still able to write! Online seems like the way to go, where >> things will >> be >> saved and others can enjoy what I have done. Then, maybe I can >> work on it >> in book form. >> My aunt, basically, refuses to eat, drink, open her eyes, take her >> medicine. But, when I talk to her about some of the things we >> have talked >> about, she sometimes adds something, or laughs. She is listening, >> but >> just >> won't try. She didn't want any feeding tube or anything like >> that. She >> may >> outlive us all, but it doesn't look good, some days. I'm still >> there, >> with >> my paper and pen and writing all the little tidbits down. I've >> been doing >> that for about 4 years, when we talked on the phone, were in the >> car, or >> visiting. >> I hope that everyone will write down the little stories they >> share, and >> their own stories. I'm also trying to draw things, like >> floorplans of >> homes >> and businesses, and memories, and putting those online. My >> daughter and >> grandsons are not interested, but I wasn't either, until I read a >> journal >> that a great-great aunt kept during the Civil War years. That >> came alive >> for me. I left the research to my mother, until almost all the >> older >> folks, including my mother, had died and I realized that there >> was a lot >> that that hadn't done. After I retired, I thought I would take it >> upon >> myself to label all the old family pictures that were not identified. >> From >> there it has grown to try to gather materials, preserve them, >> identify >> things, and write down all the family stories. >> Good luck in getting the story told. Sounds like you have a >> good book, >> to me! Or whatever way that you would like to pursue things. >> Cecelia in Texas >> >> >> >> >>> Your father should write or transcribe his remembrances of the war. >>> That way you will have them and if the museum wants them latter >>> you will >>> have them. >>> >>> Kuba >> >>>> visit to Poland this year. They were both present when Stare Miasto >>>> fell in >>>> Warsaw.Sept 1, 1944. They saw the atrocities at that time including >>>> execution of their father; my aunt still can describe down to >>>> the last >>>> detail the German SS officer who performed the executions. I felt >>>> they had a >>>> story to tell. With their permission I wrote to the Uprising Museum >>>> to see >>>> if there was opportunity of an interview and perhaps a more in >>>> depth look at >>>> the archives regarding Stare Miasto. I was summarily dismissed and >>>> sent to >>>> the Red Cross after waiting over two weeks for a response. I did >>>> indicate I >>>> was interested in any documentation with our name on it, but most >>>> of my >>>> letter was regarding their story. I was told they wanted to >>>> expand the >>>> civilian side of the archive later..I do not understand. will this >>>> be after >>>> their witnesses die, so the story cannot be told in full? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sorry, I am confused >>>> >>>> Teresa McNeal >>> >> >> ********************************* >> Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at >> Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com >> ---------------------------------- >> Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the >> list as >> long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: >> researching our Polish roots. >> ---------------------------------- >> Browse the list's archives here: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots >> Search the list's archives here: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots- > admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the > list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this > list: researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message jimpres1@mac.com

I loved both these stories too. I really enjoyed reading them, so thank you both for sharing them - I enjoyed yours too, Sandy! My mum died last year leaving a mystery behind her about her family: we are slowly unravelling this with the help of people on this mailing list, the nordrhein-westfalen mailing list, the LDS and the unfailing good humour and generosity of people on both mailing lists. I cannot emphasize enough the need to get things written down or recorded while the people who remember them are still with us. Usually, older people love to talk about the old days and their experiences ( sometimes they don't, however, if their past is painful) and when they do, it's imperative that the information be recorded. It might never be published, but hey, so what. Thank you all for telling these stories. Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandy Meeks" <susiem@cass.net> To: <poland-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 6:07 AM Subject: Re: [POLAND] Has this happened to anyone else? > Cecelia: What a wonderful story! And Kuba, also. Both of you need to > pursue your projects! Kuba, I think it is a great idea to go ahead and > get > the memories written down and worry later about getting them out to > others. > I used to work in a small town hospital and one night admitted an elderly > man whose grandfather had started a bank in Hudson, Michigan years ago. I > have always loved to hear old people tell their stories, so chatted w/ him > at length about the history of his family and their place in Hudson's > history. By the time the 3 generations lived there, they had lots of > marvelous historical stories! This old gent had never married, but lived > in > a huge mansion and had collected hundreds of antiques over the years. > Soon, > his nephew came to visit him, his DPOA, and I mentioned the old gent's > history. I said, "I hope you've written all this wonderful information > down." He said, "No, he's got it all up here." pointing to his head. > Well, > of course, a few months later, the old gent passed away. His home has > been > made into a museum, but, no one got the important information down, right > from the person who experienced it! So sad. So sad that most of us are > too > busy to keep journals, write stories, or feel too insignificant to think > our > stories matter! > Sandy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cecelia" <cheinric@suddenlink.net> > To: <poland-roots@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 1:35 PM > Subject: Re: [POLAND] Has this happened to anyone else? > > >> Yes, and, if you want the world to know, you could put it into a blog >> or >> make a website. Maybe even write a book. These days, besides the normal >> publishing route, there is self publishing and also e-books. >> My last older relative is in the hospital now, probably trying to die. >> We were going to identify all the old family pictures and label them, and >> as >> we looked at the pictures, she was telling me all about the people, where >> they lived, their family, and little stories about them. I was writing >> down >> everything she said! We didn't get very far, though, before she had a >> stroke that affected her vision, then she had hallucinations from the >> meds, >> fell and broke her hip, refused to do therapy and has gone downhill ever >> since. That has been about 2 years ago. >> She had her feelings hurt when a university professor gathered stories >> of people who had memories of the German Prisoner of War Camp that was in >> a >> town 7 miles from my hometown. My aunt had worked there as a secretary. >> She told them that she wanted to share her story, but they published his >> book without ever contacting her. I talked to someone with the local >> historical group and they said that the interviews were done, but, if I >> would interview her and write it up, they would add it online. That >> satisfied my aunt a little. But she still didn't like it that she was >> ignored and left out. >> So, I have been working on that story for almost 2 years. She keeps >> adding something to the story, or correcting me! >> I have my own memories of going to that camp as a child, so I want to >> add those. >> I think it is sad that they wouldn't accept your relative's story. >> I have a friend who is trying to find a publisher for a book she has >> written in which she has interveiewed Hispanic WWII vets. She has some >> of >> it online. But, as she looks for a publisher, her subjects in the book >> are >> dying. I feel sure that a university press would publish that book, but >> she >> wants to have a well known publisher. >> I realized that I couldn't remember any of the stories that her father >> used to tell, although people came from all over to listen to him, until >> he >> died at age 96-still active and working even on the day he died. So, I >> started asking my aunt about what he would tell, and then she started >> telling her own little stories. She is only 16 years older than I am, so >> I >> know a lot about what she was talking about. >> She never married or had children, so my sister and I are all her >> family >> left (except for my daughter and grandsons). That family never threw >> anything away and had safes and boxes at their stores where they kept >> everything. I've been going through some of those and they are filled >> with >> "treasures". Old deeds going back to 1867 when the town was started, >> abstracts, baptismal certificates, church and Sunday School certificates, >> even every gas and electric bill, not to mention store journals. >> I'm writing some of my own memories as people told me that they enjoy >> my >> little stories. And I am putting those, along with my art work and some >> photos, on my blog. After teaching journalism, and writing for >> newspapers, >> I have decided that I can't wait around for acceptance by a publisher. I >> had better just get things down while I can still remember them, and am >> still able to write! Online seems like the way to go, where things will >> be >> saved and others can enjoy what I have done. Then, maybe I can work on >> it >> in book form. >> My aunt, basically, refuses to eat, drink, open her eyes, take her >> medicine. But, when I talk to her about some of the things we have >> talked >> about, she sometimes adds something, or laughs. She is listening, but >> just >> won't try. She didn't want any feeding tube or anything like that. She >> may >> outlive us all, but it doesn't look good, some days. I'm still there, >> with >> my paper and pen and writing all the little tidbits down. I've been >> doing >> that for about 4 years, when we talked on the phone, were in the car, or >> visiting. >> I hope that everyone will write down the little stories they share, and >> their own stories. I'm also trying to draw things, like floorplans of >> homes >> and businesses, and memories, and putting those online. My daughter and >> grandsons are not interested, but I wasn't either, until I read a journal >> that a great-great aunt kept during the Civil War years. That came alive >> for me. I left the research to my mother, until almost all the older >> folks, including my mother, had died and I realized that there was a lot >> that that hadn't done. After I retired, I thought I would take it upon >> myself to label all the old family pictures that were not identified. >> From >> there it has grown to try to gather materials, preserve them, identify >> things, and write down all the family stories. >> Good luck in getting the story told. Sounds like you have a good book, >> to me! Or whatever way that you would like to pursue things. >> Cecelia in Texas >> >> >> >> >>> Your father should write or transcribe his remembrances of the war. >>> That way you will have them and if the museum wants them latter you will >>> have them. >>> >>> Kuba >> >>>> visit to Poland this year. They were both present when Stare Miasto >>>> fell in >>>> Warsaw.Sept 1, 1944. They saw the atrocities at that time including >>>> execution of their father; my aunt still can describe down to the last >>>> detail the German SS officer who performed the executions. I felt >>>> they had a >>>> story to tell. With their permission I wrote to the Uprising Museum >>>> to see >>>> if there was opportunity of an interview and perhaps a more in >>>> depth look at >>>> the archives regarding Stare Miasto. I was summarily dismissed and >>>> sent to >>>> the Red Cross after waiting over two weeks for a response. I did >>>> indicate I >>>> was interested in any documentation with our name on it, but most >>>> of my >>>> letter was regarding their story. I was told they wanted to expand the >>>> civilian side of the archive later..I do not understand. will this >>>> be after >>>> their witnesses die, so the story cannot be told in full? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sorry, I am confused >>>> >>>> Teresa McNeal >>> >> >> ********************************* >> Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at >> Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com >> ---------------------------------- >> Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list >> as >> long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: >> researching our Polish roots. >> ---------------------------------- >> Browse the list's archives here: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots >> Search the list's archives here: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as > long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: > researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Cecelia: What a wonderful story! And Kuba, also. Both of you need to pursue your projects! Kuba, I think it is a great idea to go ahead and get the memories written down and worry later about getting them out to others. I used to work in a small town hospital and one night admitted an elderly man whose grandfather had started a bank in Hudson, Michigan years ago. I have always loved to hear old people tell their stories, so chatted w/ him at length about the history of his family and their place in Hudson's history. By the time the 3 generations lived there, they had lots of marvelous historical stories! This old gent had never married, but lived in a huge mansion and had collected hundreds of antiques over the years. Soon, his nephew came to visit him, his DPOA, and I mentioned the old gent's history. I said, "I hope you've written all this wonderful information down." He said, "No, he's got it all up here." pointing to his head. Well, of course, a few months later, the old gent passed away. His home has been made into a museum, but, no one got the important information down, right from the person who experienced it! So sad. So sad that most of us are too busy to keep journals, write stories, or feel too insignificant to think our stories matter! Sandy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cecelia" <cheinric@suddenlink.net> To: <poland-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [POLAND] Has this happened to anyone else? > Yes, and, if you want the world to know, you could put it into a blog > or > make a website. Maybe even write a book. These days, besides the normal > publishing route, there is self publishing and also e-books. > My last older relative is in the hospital now, probably trying to die. > We were going to identify all the old family pictures and label them, and > as > we looked at the pictures, she was telling me all about the people, where > they lived, their family, and little stories about them. I was writing > down > everything she said! We didn't get very far, though, before she had a > stroke that affected her vision, then she had hallucinations from the > meds, > fell and broke her hip, refused to do therapy and has gone downhill ever > since. That has been about 2 years ago. > She had her feelings hurt when a university professor gathered stories > of people who had memories of the German Prisoner of War Camp that was in > a > town 7 miles from my hometown. My aunt had worked there as a secretary. > She told them that she wanted to share her story, but they published his > book without ever contacting her. I talked to someone with the local > historical group and they said that the interviews were done, but, if I > would interview her and write it up, they would add it online. That > satisfied my aunt a little. But she still didn't like it that she was > ignored and left out. > So, I have been working on that story for almost 2 years. She keeps > adding something to the story, or correcting me! > I have my own memories of going to that camp as a child, so I want to > add those. > I think it is sad that they wouldn't accept your relative's story. > I have a friend who is trying to find a publisher for a book she has > written in which she has interveiewed Hispanic WWII vets. She has some of > it online. But, as she looks for a publisher, her subjects in the book > are > dying. I feel sure that a university press would publish that book, but > she > wants to have a well known publisher. > I realized that I couldn't remember any of the stories that her father > used to tell, although people came from all over to listen to him, until > he > died at age 96-still active and working even on the day he died. So, I > started asking my aunt about what he would tell, and then she started > telling her own little stories. She is only 16 years older than I am, so > I > know a lot about what she was talking about. > She never married or had children, so my sister and I are all her > family > left (except for my daughter and grandsons). That family never threw > anything away and had safes and boxes at their stores where they kept > everything. I've been going through some of those and they are filled > with > "treasures". Old deeds going back to 1867 when the town was started, > abstracts, baptismal certificates, church and Sunday School certificates, > even every gas and electric bill, not to mention store journals. > I'm writing some of my own memories as people told me that they enjoy my > little stories. And I am putting those, along with my art work and some > photos, on my blog. After teaching journalism, and writing for > newspapers, > I have decided that I can't wait around for acceptance by a publisher. I > had better just get things down while I can still remember them, and am > still able to write! Online seems like the way to go, where things will > be > saved and others can enjoy what I have done. Then, maybe I can work on it > in book form. > My aunt, basically, refuses to eat, drink, open her eyes, take her > medicine. But, when I talk to her about some of the things we have talked > about, she sometimes adds something, or laughs. She is listening, but > just > won't try. She didn't want any feeding tube or anything like that. She > may > outlive us all, but it doesn't look good, some days. I'm still there, > with > my paper and pen and writing all the little tidbits down. I've been doing > that for about 4 years, when we talked on the phone, were in the car, or > visiting. > I hope that everyone will write down the little stories they share, and > their own stories. I'm also trying to draw things, like floorplans of > homes > and businesses, and memories, and putting those online. My daughter and > grandsons are not interested, but I wasn't either, until I read a journal > that a great-great aunt kept during the Civil War years. That came alive > for me. I left the research to my mother, until almost all the older > folks, including my mother, had died and I realized that there was a lot > that that hadn't done. After I retired, I thought I would take it upon > myself to label all the old family pictures that were not identified. > From > there it has grown to try to gather materials, preserve them, identify > things, and write down all the family stories. > Good luck in getting the story told. Sounds like you have a good book, > to me! Or whatever way that you would like to pursue things. > Cecelia in Texas > > > > >> Your father should write or transcribe his remembrances of the war. >> That way you will have them and if the museum wants them latter you will >> have them. >> >> Kuba > >>> visit to Poland this year. They were both present when Stare Miasto >>> fell in >>> Warsaw.Sept 1, 1944. They saw the atrocities at that time including >>> execution of their father; my aunt still can describe down to the last >>> detail the German SS officer who performed the executions. I felt >>> they had a >>> story to tell. With their permission I wrote to the Uprising Museum >>> to see >>> if there was opportunity of an interview and perhaps a more in >>> depth look at >>> the archives regarding Stare Miasto. I was summarily dismissed and >>> sent to >>> the Red Cross after waiting over two weeks for a response. I did >>> indicate I >>> was interested in any documentation with our name on it, but most >>> of my >>> letter was regarding their story. I was told they wanted to expand the >>> civilian side of the archive later..I do not understand. will this >>> be after >>> their witnesses die, so the story cannot be told in full? >>> >>> >>> >>> Sorry, I am confused >>> >>> Teresa McNeal >> > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as > long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: > researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Teresa, I wonder if it would make a difference if you contacted the Polish Civil Archives in Warsaw? I suggest this because the archives was collecting names of all those Poles who were killed during WWII. I second the others' suggestions that you get the memories recorded regardless of whether an agency is interested. Debbie Teresa McNeal wrote: > My sister and I finally talked my 74 yr old father into going back to Poland > one last time (the 2nd time since he left in 1944), mostly so he could come > to terms to what happened. We planned the trip around his older sister's > visit to Poland this year. They were both present when Stare Miasto fell in > Warsaw.Sept 1, 1944. They saw the atrocities at that time including > execution of their father; my aunt still can describe down to the last > detail the German SS officer who performed the executions. I felt they had a > story to tell. With their permission I wrote to the Uprising Museum to see > if there was opportunity of an interview and perhaps a more in depth look at > the archives regarding Stare Miasto. I was summarily dismissed and sent to > the Red Cross after waiting over two weeks for a response. I did indicate I > was interested in any documentation with our name on it, but most of my > letter was regarding their story. I was told they wanted to expand the > civilian side of the archive later..I do not understand. will this be after > their witnesses die, so the story cannot be told in full? > > > > Sorry, I am confused > > Teresa McNeal > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Teresa: I believe it is urgent that you document the stories via recording and then transcribe what was said at some point. You don't want to lose those stories. Those are stories that must be remembered and perhaps later archives and libraries will want them. But if nothing else, preserve them for your family and descendants. Just my two cents..... Regards, Kim Stankiewicz -----Original Message----- From: poland-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:poland-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Teresa McNeal Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 9:31 AM To: poland-roots@rootsweb.com Subject: [POLAND] Has this happened to anyone else? My sister and I finally talked my 74 yr old father into going back to Poland one last time (the 2nd time since he left in 1944), mostly so he could come to terms to what happened. We planned the trip around his older sister's visit to Poland this year. They were both present when Stare Miasto fell in Warsaw.Sept 1, 1944. They saw the atrocities at that time including execution of their father; my aunt still can describe down to the last detail the German SS officer who performed the executions. I felt they had a story to tell. With their permission I wrote to the Uprising Museum to see if there was opportunity of an interview and perhaps a more in depth look at the archives regarding Stare Miasto. I was summarily dismissed and sent to the Red Cross after waiting over two weeks for a response. I did indicate I was interested in any documentation with our name on it, but most of my letter was regarding their story. I was told they wanted to expand the civilian side of the archive later..I do not understand. will this be after their witnesses die, so the story cannot be told in full? Sorry, I am confused Teresa McNeal ********************************* Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com ---------------------------------- Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our Polish roots. ---------------------------------- Browse the list's archives here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots Search the list's archives here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes, and, if you want the world to know, you could put it into a blog or make a website. Maybe even write a book. These days, besides the normal publishing route, there is self publishing and also e-books. My last older relative is in the hospital now, probably trying to die. We were going to identify all the old family pictures and label them, and as we looked at the pictures, she was telling me all about the people, where they lived, their family, and little stories about them. I was writing down everything she said! We didn't get very far, though, before she had a stroke that affected her vision, then she had hallucinations from the meds, fell and broke her hip, refused to do therapy and has gone downhill ever since. That has been about 2 years ago. She had her feelings hurt when a university professor gathered stories of people who had memories of the German Prisoner of War Camp that was in a town 7 miles from my hometown. My aunt had worked there as a secretary. She told them that she wanted to share her story, but they published his book without ever contacting her. I talked to someone with the local historical group and they said that the interviews were done, but, if I would interview her and write it up, they would add it online. That satisfied my aunt a little. But she still didn't like it that she was ignored and left out. So, I have been working on that story for almost 2 years. She keeps adding something to the story, or correcting me! I have my own memories of going to that camp as a child, so I want to add those. I think it is sad that they wouldn't accept your relative's story. I have a friend who is trying to find a publisher for a book she has written in which she has interveiewed Hispanic WWII vets. She has some of it online. But, as she looks for a publisher, her subjects in the book are dying. I feel sure that a university press would publish that book, but she wants to have a well known publisher. I realized that I couldn't remember any of the stories that her father used to tell, although people came from all over to listen to him, until he died at age 96-still active and working even on the day he died. So, I started asking my aunt about what he would tell, and then she started telling her own little stories. She is only 16 years older than I am, so I know a lot about what she was talking about. She never married or had children, so my sister and I are all her family left (except for my daughter and grandsons). That family never threw anything away and had safes and boxes at their stores where they kept everything. I've been going through some of those and they are filled with "treasures". Old deeds going back to 1867 when the town was started, abstracts, baptismal certificates, church and Sunday School certificates, even every gas and electric bill, not to mention store journals. I'm writing some of my own memories as people told me that they enjoy my little stories. And I am putting those, along with my art work and some photos, on my blog. After teaching journalism, and writing for newspapers, I have decided that I can't wait around for acceptance by a publisher. I had better just get things down while I can still remember them, and am still able to write! Online seems like the way to go, where things will be saved and others can enjoy what I have done. Then, maybe I can work on it in book form. My aunt, basically, refuses to eat, drink, open her eyes, take her medicine. But, when I talk to her about some of the things we have talked about, she sometimes adds something, or laughs. She is listening, but just won't try. She didn't want any feeding tube or anything like that. She may outlive us all, but it doesn't look good, some days. I'm still there, with my paper and pen and writing all the little tidbits down. I've been doing that for about 4 years, when we talked on the phone, were in the car, or visiting. I hope that everyone will write down the little stories they share, and their own stories. I'm also trying to draw things, like floorplans of homes and businesses, and memories, and putting those online. My daughter and grandsons are not interested, but I wasn't either, until I read a journal that a great-great aunt kept during the Civil War years. That came alive for me. I left the research to my mother, until almost all the older folks, including my mother, had died and I realized that there was a lot that that hadn't done. After I retired, I thought I would take it upon myself to label all the old family pictures that were not identified. From there it has grown to try to gather materials, preserve them, identify things, and write down all the family stories. Good luck in getting the story told. Sounds like you have a good book, to me! Or whatever way that you would like to pursue things. Cecelia in Texas > Your father should write or transcribe his remembrances of the war. > That way you will have them and if the museum wants them latter you will > have them. > > Kuba >> visit to Poland this year. They were both present when Stare Miasto >> fell in >> Warsaw.Sept 1, 1944. They saw the atrocities at that time including >> execution of their father; my aunt still can describe down to the last >> detail the German SS officer who performed the executions. I felt >> they had a >> story to tell. With their permission I wrote to the Uprising Museum >> to see >> if there was opportunity of an interview and perhaps a more in >> depth look at >> the archives regarding Stare Miasto. I was summarily dismissed and >> sent to >> the Red Cross after waiting over two weeks for a response. I did >> indicate I >> was interested in any documentation with our name on it, but most >> of my >> letter was regarding their story. I was told they wanted to expand the >> civilian side of the archive later..I do not understand. will this >> be after >> their witnesses die, so the story cannot be told in full? >> >> >> >> Sorry, I am confused >> >> Teresa McNeal >

Your father should write or transcribe his remembrances of the war. That way you will have them and if the museum wants them latter you will have them. Kuba On May 8, 2008, at 10:31 AM, Teresa McNeal wrote: > My sister and I finally talked my 74 yr old father into going back > to Poland > one last time (the 2nd time since he left in 1944), mostly so he > could come > to terms to what happened. We planned the trip around his older > sister's > visit to Poland this year. They were both present when Stare Miasto > fell in > Warsaw.Sept 1, 1944. They saw the atrocities at that time including > execution of their father; my aunt still can describe down to the last > detail the German SS officer who performed the executions. I felt > they had a > story to tell. With their permission I wrote to the Uprising Museum > to see > if there was opportunity of an interview and perhaps a more in > depth look at > the archives regarding Stare Miasto. I was summarily dismissed and > sent to > the Red Cross after waiting over two weeks for a response. I did > indicate I > was interested in any documentation with our name on it, but most > of my > letter was regarding their story. I was told they wanted to expand the > civilian side of the archive later..I do not understand. will this > be after > their witnesses die, so the story cannot be told in full? > > > > Sorry, I am confused > > Teresa McNeal > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots- > admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the > list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this > list: researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message jimpres1@mac.com

My sister and I finally talked my 74 yr old father into going back to Poland one last time (the 2nd time since he left in 1944), mostly so he could come to terms to what happened. We planned the trip around his older sister's visit to Poland this year. They were both present when Stare Miasto fell in Warsaw.Sept 1, 1944. They saw the atrocities at that time including execution of their father; my aunt still can describe down to the last detail the German SS officer who performed the executions. I felt they had a story to tell. With their permission I wrote to the Uprising Museum to see if there was opportunity of an interview and perhaps a more in depth look at the archives regarding Stare Miasto. I was summarily dismissed and sent to the Red Cross after waiting over two weeks for a response. I did indicate I was interested in any documentation with our name on it, but most of my letter was regarding their story. I was told they wanted to expand the civilian side of the archive later..I do not understand. will this be after their witnesses die, so the story cannot be told in full? Sorry, I am confused Teresa McNeal

Colleagues, I would suggest that the Catholic Church can - and has- funded microfilming of their own records for preservation. Any archive can buy and operate a microfilm camera and create the correct environment for preservation <g>. In Detroit, the Archdiocese has placed church parish records at the Detroit Public Library/ Burton Collection. Each researcher signs a paper when they request a microfilm- stating the surnames and parishes they are interested in. In the past, it was at the discretion of the individual bishop to allow microfilming- by any group. The records are sacramental. They are not public records. They were created for religious reasons. In many Catholic European countries the priest was also the civil scribe. So duplicate copies are found at the civil archives. Perhaps a system of housing microfilms at Catholic university libraries might be a solution. BTW, the Catholic faith also honors ancestors- on All Souls Day and All Saints Day. http://www.americancatholic.org/e-News/FriarJack/fj102202.asp As I have often said during my lectures, I appreciate the GSU efforts in preserving Catholic records. I have been able to trace my ancestors in Poland back to the late 1600s via FHL. I volunteer each week at the local FHC- but I do not help patrons create their Temple Ready files. And, I know, deep in my heart, if a Mormon descendant offers my grandmother Cecilia Marianna Wojtkowiak Przytulska - raised and educated by the Felician Sisters- baptism, she will make the sign of the cross, say a novena to Our Mother of Perpetual Help, and gracefully decline. Ceil Wendt Jensen, MA, CG http://mipolonia.net

Debbie, That was their comment, not mine... I want to say that they are looking down on those doing it, and telling that higher power whether or not they are willing to accept their efforts.... Anettka In a message dated 5/7/2008 3:59:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Debbie writes: Anettka, How does one get permission from a dead person? "The answer was that they had the right to refuse/not accept the baptism... " Debbie **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)

Julia This is similar to what another member has said - if your ancestors were baptized in a faith other than LDS, and you do not believe that the LDS is the true church, it should matter little or nothing to you what the LDS do. For you, the original baptism will hold true. My maternal German/Polish ancestors were Lutheran: my paternal English ones were Church of England. I am nothing in particular.I'm all for tolerance, but I can see that it makes people uneasy thinking that their ancestors might be baptized into a different faith without their knowledge or agreement. It can almost appear like a control thing, or a desire for a monopoly of souls. There will always be more than one side to this issue. Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julia Price" <juliakayprice@hotmail.com> To: <poland-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:30 PM Subject: Re: [POLAND] Vatican Orders Records Withheld from Mormons > Being an active member of the LDS Church, I want to put my 2 cents worth > in > here. I don't understand why anyone would object to the practice of > baptizing posthumously. If you don't believe that the LDS Church has any > power or is a "true" church than what does it matter? If you are > Catholic, > as my son-in-law is, as well as many of my ancestors and were baptized as > a > Catholic and you truly believe in the Catholic church, then why would you > care? If you really true believe in your own church's doctrine, what is > the > harm? If you were baptized a Lutheran, as almost all of my father's > ancestors were and then I, as an active Mormon had them baptized into the > LDS faith, if my aunts and uncles who are still Lutherans didn't agree > with > my faith, I believe they are comfortable knowing that their ancestors were > baptized as Lutherans. > > I think in the world that we live in that we all need to be accepting and > tolerant of other's believe and opinions. I love my sons-in-laws and my > grandchildren baptized in the Catholic church, as much as I love my > grandchildren baptized into the Church of Jesus Christ of > Latter-Day-SAints. > I believe in the teachings and tenets of the LDS church, but I was not > offended or upset that my children chose another faith and I believe that > my > ancestors would have felt the same. > > I believe all of us climbing our family trees do it for different reasons, > I > do it both for my faith, but also because I want to feel a connection with > others who have come before me. I don't feel I'm better or worse because > of > the church my ancestors chose to join. > > Let us all be more tolerant. I think it is very sad that the Catholic > church has done this, as I think it was done for the wrong reason, because > somehow they felt threatened. The only reason to act out of fear is if > you > are unsure of your own beliefs. > > Julia Price > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Hoffman" <wmfhoffman@sbcglobal.net> > To: <poland-roots@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 10:52 AM > Subject: Re: [POLAND] Vatican Orders Records Withheld from Mormons > > >> HI, >> >> Anne Keen <akdl25466_2@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: >> >>> Is there any evidence that the Church of Jesus >>> Christ of Latter-Day Saints >>> has rebapitzed people's ancestors ( after death) >>> without their descendents' >>> knowledge or agreement? >> >> Yes, there's plenty of evidence of that. Just >> Google "Mormons baptizing dead" and you'll find >> plenty of articles about this, and especially >> about Jews objecting to the LDS's repeated baptism >> of Jews who are no longer around to object. You'll >> also find articles that explain why the LDS >> promotes genealogy -- in order to baptize all >> people who were ancestors to Mormons. They're >> trying to document humankind as far back as >> possible, because the further back you go, the >> more certain it is your ancestors and mine >> coincide. The way they see it, no one should be >> "off limits" to them because all people who ever >> lived are potential ancestors. That's also why >> they willingly let non-Mormons use their >> facilities. The more family trees are documented, >> the more ancestors of Mormons will be found. >> >> A really interesting book was published last year >> on the doctrinal underpinning for LDS genealogical >> research. It's by Donald Harman Akenson, and it's >> entitled _Some Family: The Mormons and How >> Humanity Keeps Track of Itself_ (ISBN >> 978-0773532953 ). I haven't finished it yet; the >> middle chapters are rather heavy going. But I >> intend to finish it, as it is very informative, >> and the author has a nice sense of humor. I'm >> learning a lot I didn't know about why Mormons >> take genealogy so seriously. The doctrine sounds >> like utter nonsense to me, but religious beliefs >> always seem like drivel as long as they're not >> yours.... >> >> Fred Hoffman >> >> ********************************* >> Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at >> Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com >> ---------------------------------- >> Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list >> as >> long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: >> researching our Polish roots. >> ---------------------------------- >> Browse the list's archives here: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots >> Search the list's archives here: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as > long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: > researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Thanks for this, Fred. As a woman-of-no-particular-religion, I have never looked into any one religion deeply enough ( mainly because I haven't been interested enough to do so) to even begin to understand it properly. Nominally I was brought up as Church of England: being the mercenary little beast that I was, as a child ( aren't we all?) I found the Sunday School which had the most treats and outings, and attended that one......it happened to be Church of England. In the eyes of a child, that was what mattered. There were several Non-Conformist chapels and meeting places in the locality, but most of them seemed sooo miserable to me. Church of England was also my grandmother's church, and she attended regularly all her life. She regarded Catholics with a deep and grave suspicion. I'm not telling you what she called 'Them Methodys'. Unprintable. I absorbed her prejudices, but as I grew recognised them for what they were and discarded them. I grew out of them. As an adult I can see things differently, of course, but as a child all that mattered was how many times we got taken to the seaside. I will cast about for the book you mention. I would def.be interested in reading it. I find it a little ironic that I am currently waiting for some films to come to a local FHC from Salt Lake City: the cost of the rental and the shipping was nominal. I couldn't understand why it was so cheap: your email has perhaps shed some light on this. I have not published my family tree and after this I definitely won't publish it with the LDS. Thank you for a clear and unbiased explanation. Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Hoffman" <wmfhoffman@sbcglobal.net> To: <poland-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [POLAND] Vatican Orders Records Withheld from Mormons > HI, > > Anne Keen <akdl25466_2@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > >> Is there any evidence that the Church of Jesus >> Christ of Latter-Day Saints >> has rebapitzed people's ancestors ( after death) >> without their descendents' >> knowledge or agreement? > > Yes, there's plenty of evidence of that. Just > Google "Mormons baptizing dead" and you'll find > plenty of articles about this, and especially > about Jews objecting to the LDS's repeated baptism > of Jews who are no longer around to object. You'll > also find articles that explain why the LDS > promotes genealogy -- in order to baptize all > people who were ancestors to Mormons. They're > trying to document humankind as far back as > possible, because the further back you go, the > more certain it is your ancestors and mine > coincide. The way they see it, no one should be > "off limits" to them because all people who ever > lived are potential ancestors. That's also why > they willingly let non-Mormons use their > facilities. The more family trees are documented, > the more ancestors of Mormons will be found. > > A really interesting book was published last year > on the doctrinal underpinning for LDS genealogical > research. It's by Donald Harman Akenson, and it's > entitled _Some Family: The Mormons and How > Humanity Keeps Track of Itself_ (ISBN > 978-0773532953 ). I haven't finished it yet; the > middle chapters are rather heavy going. But I > intend to finish it, as it is very informative, > and the author has a nice sense of humor. I'm > learning a lot I didn't know about why Mormons > take genealogy so seriously. The doctrine sounds > like utter nonsense to me, but religious beliefs > always seem like drivel as long as they're not > yours.... > > Fred Hoffman > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as > long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: > researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Thank you for your response, I think it was heart-felt and eloquent and much needed in the rampage of slurs that have been sent to. I feel bad for responding earlier, but like you my faith is important to me and so is my family the ones alive and the ones who have passed on. Julia ----- Original Message ----- From: "MiPolonia" <cjensen@mipolonia.net> To: <poland-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:14 PM Subject: [POLAND] Catholic Records- Detroit > Colleagues, > > I would suggest that the Catholic Church can - and has- funded > microfilming of their own records for preservation. Any archive can buy > and operate a microfilm camera and create the correct environment for > preservation <g>. > > In Detroit, the Archdiocese has placed church parish records at the > Detroit Public Library/ Burton Collection. Each researcher signs a paper > when they request a microfilm- stating the surnames and parishes they are > interested in. In the past, it was at the discretion of the individual > bishop to allow microfilming- by any group. > > The records are sacramental. They are not public records. They were > created for religious reasons. In many Catholic European countries the > priest was also the civil scribe. So duplicate copies are found at the > civil archives. > > Perhaps a system of housing microfilms at Catholic university libraries > might be a solution. BTW, the Catholic faith also honors ancestors- on All > Souls Day and All Saints Day. > http://www.americancatholic.org/e-News/FriarJack/fj102202.asp > > As I have often said during my lectures, I appreciate the GSU efforts in > preserving Catholic records. I have been able to trace my ancestors in > Poland back to the late 1600s via FHL. I volunteer each week at the local > FHC- but I do not help patrons create their Temple Ready files. > > And, I know, deep in my heart, if a Mormon descendant offers my > grandmother Cecilia Marianna Wojtkowiak Przytulska - raised and educated > by the Felician Sisters- baptism, she will make the sign of the cross, > say a novena to Our Mother of Perpetual Help, and gracefully decline. > > Ceil Wendt Jensen, MA, CG > http://mipolonia.net > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as > long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: > researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I either read or saw something on Mormons recently. When this baptism takes place, the names are entered in a book/log to note it. It said that some Mormons had baptized some of the Jewish dead of the Holocaust. A Jewish organization protested this. Supposedly, the Mormons were going to stop baptizing the Jewish people & remove their names from the book. Anne Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Okay, folks, this topic has strayed completely away from genealogy. What any religion believes or doesn't believe, what religion is the "true" religion, and whether or not what one religious organization is doing is appropriate and/or acceptable is NOT on topic for this list. If anyone wants to continue to debate, please do so in private email and not on this list. Regards, Marie, list admin

Eagle Scout Project at Assumption Grotto Cemetery, 13770 Gratiot, Detroit, MI. If anyone would like to help out young Josiah Thomas with this Eagle Scout Project on June 14, from 9 am to 4 pm, please call him at 313-908-1704. There are about 125 grave makers that need to be read. He could really use someone of experience. Thanks. Obviously, this part of the message is meant for those who live here locally. That being said, The Roman Catholic Church is the One True Church, started by Jesus Christ himself. Where's all this religious tolerance? Is this for all but the true believers? Catholics don't get this consideration. Baptism is not a Catholic ceremony, but a true Sacrament. It's not meant to get anyone into heaven, but to remove the stain of Mortal Sin. To refer to "that guy, John the Baptist" in such an irreverent manner shows a lack of class. I have great faith and I don't want ANY cult putting me into their sect. Thank you very much! The LDS Church, (sorry guys) is a cult. The don't believe in the Trinity. The only way they can get members is to have plural wives and attempt to grab the dead. Memo those grave robbers; these people are heaven, hell or purgatory. Nothing your false religion can do will change it. As for the records the Vatican won't release. Why can't you respect their decision? I love this hobby as much as the next person. But there are some things in life (and death) more important that genealogy. Lynn **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)

Sarcastically: RC church records must be held in Pennsylvania. Both are iron curtain-like in their ideas toward sharing information. Who does it hurt? What is wrong with wanting to know about your deceased relatives? I agree that the One True Church Unto God should not worry about members being baptized by 'outsiders' since it doesn't count in the in the Church's eyes. It's a control issue more than anything else.

If it is any consolation to those whose ancestors were Catholic, or Jewish or whatever.... Years ago before the temple in San Diego was consecrated, the public was offered the opportunity to tour the temple. My brother and I took up that offer and went through it. When reaching the room of baptism, I asked 'but what if our ancestors didn't want to become/be baptized Mormon?' The answer was that they had the right to refuse/not accept the baptism... And as decedents of these potential 'convertees', one can keep their research among only those who have the most right to it... the family of their ancestors, and thus not support baptism of the masses. I might also add, that part of the Mormon goals supporting their interest in genealogy include sealing children to parents and husbands to wives so they will be together for eternity, this also can be done posthumously. By extension of prior refusal of baptism, I suppose that the deceased can reject these rites also... but since one must be a Mormon to receive the later rites, it would seem refusal of the former would negate anything done later. Anettka In a message dated 5/7/2008 12:53:19 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Fred writes: in order to baptize all people who were ancestors to Mormons **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)

Folks, Just a reminder to keep to the topic of this list: Polish genealogy. Please don't venture into a religious debate. Please keep this discussion to how the subject pertains to *genealogy.* :-) Regards, Marie, list admin

Wasn't there this guy "John the BAPTIST" around before Christendom or Catholicism? As a onetime RC, I am sorry to read the Vatican took this stance.