Always good to hear from you, Fred. I was looking for the Migdals that would have remained in the Buczkowice/Lodygowice area. I assume this would be represented in the Herby site as "BB". I do notice that your search using the wildcard indicates there were 251 with the proper diacritical mark for the "el". Thank you for grabbing my head and focusing my attention to the correct location for the "missing" relatives. I haven't begun to look for Migdal immigrants that may have left Poland -- that will be the next project to see where that information intersects with the KANIA and GORNEY family immigrants I was able to successfully pull into the family tree. Kindest regards, Alan On Jul 22, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Fred Hoffman wrote: > Hi, > > Alan Kania <ajkania@comcast.net> wrote: > >> The other once prominent surname I am searching is MIGDAL. Even >> though >> the surname does have Hebrew origins to it, I've been able to trace >> that family back to the mid 1700s in the Lodygowice area and they >> were >> definitely Roman Catholic in my family through that period. My >> curiosity question stems from "Herby". Even though the MIGDAL family >> were prominent land owners in the valley, there are NO Migdals that >> show up on "Herby." Only one occurrence in the Bielsko-Biala for >> MIGDALEK, one for MIGDALEWICZ and thirteen for MIGDALSKI. >> >> In the church records, the MIGDAL name (just as the KANIA name) >> remains that way without any alteration. The same is indicated by the >> gravestones in the Buczkowice cemetery -- KANIA is KANIA and MIGDAL >> is >> MIGDAL. >> >> What happened to the MIGDALs? > > I don't understand, Alan. When I search for MIGDA? on the Herby site > (using the wild card ? so as to match plain L and slash-L), I find > 178 Polish citizens named MIGDAL, and 2,783 named MIGDAL with slash-L: > > Migdal 178 Wa:14, BP:3, Cz:1, Gd:1, Go:7, Ka:12, Lu:56, Ld:31, > Ol:4, Pt:11, Pr:7, Ra:4, Sr:14, Sz:2, Ta:1, Wl:2, Wr:3, ZG:5 > > Migdal 2783 Wa:107, BB:251, By:30, Ch:1, Ci:5, Cz:124, El:2, Gd: > 52, Go:59, JG:61, Kl:28, Ka:210, Ki:68, Kn:56, Ko:7, Kr:404, Ks:4, > Lg:45, Ls:8, Lu:12, Ld:68, NS:13, Ol:22, Op:77, Os:6, Pl:17, Pt:36, > Pl:1, Po:54, Pr:8, Ra:51, Sr:15, Sk:16, Sl:11, Su:11, Sz:72, Tb:8, > Ta:531, To:15, Wb:55, Wl:2, Wr:72, Za:8, ZG:80 > > > It appears to me the Migdals are right where they should be. Did I > misunderstand your question? > > Incidentally, you can get more accurate and more recent data (2002) > on MIGDAL with plain L here: > > http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/migdal.html > > And 2002 data on the far more common form with slash-L is here: > > http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/migda%25C5%2582.html > > I hope this clarifies things a little. Or if I misunderstood your > question, tell me so. > > Fred Hoffman

Hi, Alan Kania <ajkania@comcast.net> wrote: > The other once prominent surname I am searching is MIGDAL. Even though > the surname does have Hebrew origins to it, I've been able to trace > that family back to the mid 1700s in the Lodygowice area and they were > definitely Roman Catholic in my family through that period. My > curiosity question stems from "Herby". Even though the MIGDAL family > were prominent land owners in the valley, there are NO Migdals that > show up on "Herby." Only one occurrence in the Bielsko-Biala for > MIGDALEK, one for MIGDALEWICZ and thirteen for MIGDALSKI. > > In the church records, the MIGDAL name (just as the KANIA name) > remains that way without any alteration. The same is indicated by the > gravestones in the Buczkowice cemetery -- KANIA is KANIA and MIGDAL is > MIGDAL. > > What happened to the MIGDALs? I don't understand, Alan. When I search for MIGDA? on the Herby site (using the wild card ? so as to match plain L and slash-L), I find 178 Polish citizens named MIGDAL, and 2,783 named MIGDAL with slash-L: Migdal 178 Wa:14, BP:3, Cz:1, Gd:1, Go:7, Ka:12, Lu:56, Ld:31, Ol:4, Pt:11, Pr:7, Ra:4, Sr:14, Sz:2, Ta:1, Wl:2, Wr:3, ZG:5 Migdal 2783 Wa:107, BB:251, By:30, Ch:1, Ci:5, Cz:124, El:2, Gd:52, Go:59, JG:61, Kl:28, Ka:210, Ki:68, Kn:56, Ko:7, Kr:404, Ks:4, Lg:45, Ls:8, Lu:12, Ld:68, NS:13, Ol:22, Op:77, Os:6, Pl:17, Pt:36, Pl:1, Po:54, Pr:8, Ra:51, Sr:15, Sk:16, Sl:11, Su:11, Sz:72, Tb:8, Ta:531, To:15, Wb:55, Wl:2, Wr:72, Za:8, ZG:80 It appears to me the Migdals are right where they should be. Did I misunderstand your question? Incidentally, you can get more accurate and more recent data (2002) on MIGDAL with plain L here: http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/migdal.html And 2002 data on the far more common form with slash-L is here: http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/migda%25C5%2582.html I hope this clarifies things a little. Or if I misunderstood your question, tell me so. Fred Hoffman

Tiffany, The Mazurian (Turosl, L~omz~a) area is not near Poznan. Turosl is in northeast Poland while Poznan is in west (west of Warsaw) Poland. These areas were even ruled by different countries during the partitions. The best way to trace your family is to request records from Poland (better yet, rent the films from LDS, if available). If I were you I'd start by requesting the church death record of Piotr Baranowski from the parish. At the same time I'd ask for his baptismal/birth record. Once you receive those documents you can work backwards to see where the line goes. It's possible your family is connected to the hotel however, Baranowski is a very common surname (25,544) in Poland: http://www.herby.com.pl/ Once you get some family history you can start on the hotel's history and see where that leads. Debbie Tiffany Parsons wrote: > My Grandmother's maiden name was Baranowski. But I only know she was > born in Turosl ... in the Masurian Lakes region. this would be close > to Poznan, but in the Lomza region for her. I know her Father's name > was Piotr Baranowski, born in 1876 and dies in 1950 and I am told is > burried in Turosl so I assume that's where he came from, but that's > as far as I go back. Grandma came to the US as a teenager in 1935 > after marrying Stanislaw Bognacki who was born in the US but raised > and was from the same area in Poland. > > I know there is a big hotel, Hotel Baranowski in the Lakes region. I > doubt this is any relation of ours ... in my family they were all > farmers with no means to speak of and a lot of children. > > There is a large group of Baranowskis in Connecticut, but also not > any recent (if any at all) relation of to me and mine. > > Please let me know if this rings any bells for you. I know Grandma > had a lot of brothers and sisters, including one sister who is still > living (in Vegas I think). I would be very interesting in knowing > anything about the Baranowski's that you find ... with all those > children, who knows! We are probably all related! > Tiffany >

Sam, Which films have you ordered (including film numbers)? I'm guessing you just didn't choose the right films. It can be confusing sometimes when you see a list of LDS films that all have Graudenz (Grudzia~dz in Polish) in the title. You have to figure out what's different about each title. In this case, Graudenz westpreussen, refers to the kreis (county, province). Each title is for a different village: Lindenau, Mockrau, Okonin etc. I'm guessing that you are looking at various parish records. It was common for our ancestors to list their county or province as their place of residence when in actuality they lived in a village within that county or province. In the U.S. it would be like saying you're from Chicago, Illinois when you're really from Niles, Illinois. To read all of the Chicago films looking for ancestors would probably be a colossal waste of time and money. It's important to figure out an ancestor's village. Now, if you believe your ancestor was from the _city_ of Graudenz (it would be much better if the list could see a scan of the document) then you should start with the Catholic records (as stated on your document). If you don't find your ancestor in the Catholic books, you should check the Lutheran books as well. People tended to go to the closest church regardless of whether it was Catholic or Lutheran. Seeing the document itself might help narrow things down more. However, without seeing your document, I would start with this film title: Kirchenbuch, 1661-1900 Katholische Kirche Graudenz Roman Catholic parish register of baptisms, marriages and deaths for Graudenz, West Prussia, Germany; now Grudzia;dz, Bydgoszcz, Poland. Taufen 1883-1890 Tote 1879-1890 Film 1618635 Items 3-4 (the records to read are the third and fourth items on the film) Debbie SamE797@aol.com wrote: > Reference, > > The Cristening record of Dec 1827 in Katholische Kirche, Graudenz West > Prussia. > > I am tracing my Grand mothers family and on a hand written church record > it states she was born in Graudenz West Prussia on Feb 5th 1884. The church > seal says Katholische K but I can not read the rest. It would be a sure bet > that it is as was stated. Do you know what LDS film number contains those > records? I have look at 4 films so far and have ordered two more. I think it > would save me some time if I knew what film had the information it. > > Sam C.

Using the www.herby.com site for distribution of surnames prompts a "curiosity" question on my part. I'm primarily search two family surnames (and anyone else that surfaces to the top) in the area south of Bielsko-Biala (Buczkowice and Lodygowice valley). I know that KANIA is the ninth most common name in Poland and one of the primary areas the surname is found is in the Bielsko-Biala area of Poland. So far so good. According to "Herby" -- "BB" has 1,464 occurrences of KANIA out of 22,434. There is one occurrence of Kaniaburka in that area (obviously a Kania converted to the Muslim faith -- only joking). The other once prominent surname I am searching is MIGDAL. Even though the surname does have Hebrew origins to it, I've been able to trace that family back to the mid 1700s in the Lodygowice area and they were definitely Roman Catholic in my family through that period. My curiosity question stems from "Herby". Even though the MIGDAL family were prominent land owners in the valley, there are NO Migdals that show up on "Herby." Only one occurrence in the Bielsko-Biala for MIGDALEK, one for MIGDALEWICZ and thirteen for MIGDALSKI. In the church records, the MIGDAL name (just as the KANIA name) remains that way without any alteration. The same is indicated by the gravestones in the Buczkowice cemetery -- KANIA is KANIA and MIGDAL is MIGDAL. What happened to the MIGDALs? -- Alan

Tiffany and A.F. I found this in the morning paper in my area. Edward Anthony Baranowski Born in Allegheny County, PA on Jul. 28, 1918 Departed on Jul. 20, 2008 and resided in Weirton, WV. Edward Anthony Baranowski, 89, of Weirton, passed away Sunday, July 20, 2008 in the Weirton Medical Center. Born July 28, 1918 in Allegheny County, PA, he was the son of the late John and Frances Wasielewska Baranowski. Edward was also preceded in death by his sons Richard Baranowski and Michael Sirotnik; brothers Chester Baranowski, Walter and Stanley Druzik and sister Sophie Bendis. Edward retired from the Weirton Steel Division of National Steel where he worked as a pipefitter. He was a member of St. Joseph the Worker Roman Catholic Church and an avid gardener. Most of all, he was always willing to lend a hand to those in need. During World War II, he served as Motor Machinist Chief Petty Officer 1st Class in the United States Coast Guard. He received commendation from General McArthur and Admiral Barbey for his participation in 13 invasions aboard a Coast Guard-Manned LST, operating in the Pacific. Mr. Baranowski is survived by his wife Alberta Jados Baranowski, brother Ted Druzik both of Weirton, grandchildren Jeffrey Paul Baranowski of Jackson, MI, Michael Sirotnik of Weirton and Jason Sirotnik of New Cumberland, WV; close family members Ed and Bonnie Zagula, Debbie, David and Matt Zagula, Pam Smoljanovich and daughter in law Kitty. Friends will be received Wednesday from 12PM until the 2:30PM funeral services at the Greco-Hertnick Funeral Home, 3219 Main Street, Weirton. Reverend Father Dean Borgmeyer will officiate. Interment will be in St. Paul Cemetery with Military Services being conducted by the Weirton Honor Guard and the American Legion Firing Squad. Tiffany Parsons <tiff.parsons@mac.com> wrote: My Grandmother's maiden name was Baranowski. But I only know she was born in Turosl ... in the Masurian Lakes region. this would be close to Poznan, but in the Lomza region for her. I know her Father's name was Piotr Baranowski, born in 1876 and dies in 1950 and I am told is burried in Turosl so I assume that's where he came from, but that's as far as I go back. Grandma came to the US as a teenager in 1935 after marrying Stanislaw Bognacki who was born in the US but raised and was from the same area in Poland. I know there is a big hotel, Hotel Baranowski in the Lakes region. I doubt this is any relation of ours ... in my family they were all farmers with no means to speak of and a lot of children. There is a large group of Baranowskis in Connecticut, but also not any recent (if any at all) relation of to me and mine. Please let me know if this rings any bells for you. I know Grandma had a lot of brothers and sisters, including one sister who is still living (in Vegas I think). I would be very interesting in knowing anything about the Baranowski's that you find ... with all those children, who knows! We are probably all related! Tiffany On Jul 21, 2008, at 6:50 PM, A F wrote: > > Well. here's the thing, . . . > > I am trying to help someone find her great-great grandmother's home > village in the Poznan area of Poland. Her name was Mariana > Michalska (at least this someone thinks it was Michalska from a > note on a photo of her sister Agnieszka. Mariana was born in Dec. > 1827. She married an Andrew Baranowski in Poland sometime before > 1853 when her first son was born. (birthplace unknown; father's > name taken from son's marriage record in US). > > Now the LDS has a record: > MARIANNA MICHALSKI Christening: 08 DEC 1827 Katholische Kirche, > Graudenz, Westpreussen, Preussen > > Parents: > Father: ANDREAS MICHALSKI > Mother: AGNES NOWICKA > (this family has about six children, the youngest I believe is an > Agnieszka). > > Now in the Poznan Marriage > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 7/21/08, Debbie Greenlee wrote: > > From: Debbie Greenlee > Subject: Re: [POLAND] maiden names > To: poland-roots@rootsweb.com > Cc: anfyslek@yahoo.com > Date: Monday, July 21, 2008, 9:59 AM > > If this is a Polish record, I picture the groom's name followed by his > father's name and then mother's name possibly indicating _her_ maiden > name or that SHE is the daughter of so and so. > This column would be followed by other info and then the bride's name > followed by her father's name and mother's name possibly indicating > the _mother's_ maiden name or that she is the daughter of so and so > (listing _her_ father's name). > > The nice thing about these formats is that you go back at least > another generation or two. > > Now, if your situation is different than the above, I think we'd need > more info. The best thing to do is to post a scan of the document so > we can take a look at it. > > Let the list know if you need a place to post the scan. > > Debbie > > A F wrote: >> Other than illegitimacy, are there any situations in which a woman >> might > use her mother's maiden name on a marriage record? >> >> > > > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots- > admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the > list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this > list: researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message ********************************* Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com ---------------------------------- Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our Polish roots. ---------------------------------- Browse the list's archives here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots Search the list's archives here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. Mahatama Gandhi LeAnn

Reference, The Cristening record of Dec 1827 in Katholische Kirche, Graudenz West Prussia. I am tracing my Grand mothers family and on a hand written church record it states she was born in Graudenz West Prussia on Feb 5th 1884. The church seal says Katholische K but I can not read the rest. It would be a sure bet that it is as was stated. Do you know what LDS film number contains those records? I have look at 4 films so far and have ordered two more. I think it would save me some time if I knew what film had the information it. Sam C. **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)

AF, If the record only has what you've typed then there is nothing unusual in the way the information is recorded. Even in the U.S. on birth certificates it asks for the mother's maiden name. Note that the child in your record is listed with her father's surname, Michalski(a) though. Debbie A F wrote: > Well. here's the thing, . . . > > I am trying to help someone find her great-great grandmother's home village in the Poznan area of Poland. Her name was Mariana Michalska (at least this someone thinks it was Michalska from a note on a photo of her sister Agnieszka. Mariana was born in Dec. 1827. She married an Andrew Baranowski in Poland sometime before 1853 when her first son was born. (birthplace unknown; father's name taken from son's marriage record in US). > > Now the LDS has a record: > MARIANNA MICHALSKI Christening: 08 DEC 1827 Katholische Kirche, Graudenz, Westpreussen, Preussen > > Parents: > Father: ANDREAS MICHALSKI > Mother: AGNES NOWICKA > (this family has about six children, the youngest I believe is an Agnieszka). > > Now in the Poznan Marriage > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 7/21/08, Debbie Greenlee <daveg@airmail.net> wrote: > > From: Debbie Greenlee <daveg@airmail.net> > Subject: Re: [POLAND] maiden names > To: poland-roots@rootsweb.com > Cc: anfyslek@yahoo.com > Date: Monday, July 21, 2008, 9:59 AM > > If this is a Polish record, I picture the groom's name followed by his > father's name and then mother's name possibly indicating _her_ maiden > name or that SHE is the daughter of so and so. > This column would be followed by other info and then the bride's name > followed by her father's name and mother's name possibly indicating > the _mother's_ maiden name or that she is the daughter of so and so > (listing _her_ father's name). > > The nice thing about these formats is that you go back at least > another generation or two. > > Now, if your situation is different than the above, I think we'd need > more info. The best thing to do is to post a scan of the document so > we can take a look at it. > > Let the list know if you need a place to post the scan. > > Debbie > > A F wrote: >> Other than illegitimacy, are there any situations in which a woman might > use her mother's maiden name on a marriage record? >> >> > > > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

My Grandmother's maiden name was Baranowski. But I only know she was born in Turosl ... in the Masurian Lakes region. this would be close to Poznan, but in the Lomza region for her. I know her Father's name was Piotr Baranowski, born in 1876 and dies in 1950 and I am told is burried in Turosl so I assume that's where he came from, but that's as far as I go back. Grandma came to the US as a teenager in 1935 after marrying Stanislaw Bognacki who was born in the US but raised and was from the same area in Poland. I know there is a big hotel, Hotel Baranowski in the Lakes region. I doubt this is any relation of ours ... in my family they were all farmers with no means to speak of and a lot of children. There is a large group of Baranowskis in Connecticut, but also not any recent (if any at all) relation of to me and mine. Please let me know if this rings any bells for you. I know Grandma had a lot of brothers and sisters, including one sister who is still living (in Vegas I think). I would be very interesting in knowing anything about the Baranowski's that you find ... with all those children, who knows! We are probably all related! Tiffany On Jul 21, 2008, at 6:50 PM, A F wrote: > > Well. here's the thing, . . . > > I am trying to help someone find her great-great grandmother's home > village in the Poznan area of Poland. Her name was Mariana > Michalska (at least this someone thinks it was Michalska from a > note on a photo of her sister Agnieszka. Mariana was born in Dec. > 1827. She married an Andrew Baranowski in Poland sometime before > 1853 when her first son was born. (birthplace unknown; father's > name taken from son's marriage record in US). > > Now the LDS has a record: > MARIANNA MICHALSKI Christening: 08 DEC 1827 Katholische Kirche, > Graudenz, Westpreussen, Preussen > > Parents: > Father: ANDREAS MICHALSKI > Mother: AGNES NOWICKA > (this family has about six children, the youngest I believe is an > Agnieszka). > > Now in the Poznan Marriage > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 7/21/08, Debbie Greenlee <daveg@airmail.net> wrote: > > From: Debbie Greenlee <daveg@airmail.net> > Subject: Re: [POLAND] maiden names > To: poland-roots@rootsweb.com > Cc: anfyslek@yahoo.com > Date: Monday, July 21, 2008, 9:59 AM > > If this is a Polish record, I picture the groom's name followed by his > father's name and then mother's name possibly indicating _her_ maiden > name or that SHE is the daughter of so and so. > This column would be followed by other info and then the bride's name > followed by her father's name and mother's name possibly indicating > the _mother's_ maiden name or that she is the daughter of so and so > (listing _her_ father's name). > > The nice thing about these formats is that you go back at least > another generation or two. > > Now, if your situation is different than the above, I think we'd need > more info. The best thing to do is to post a scan of the document so > we can take a look at it. > > Let the list know if you need a place to post the scan. > > Debbie > > A F wrote: >> Other than illegitimacy, are there any situations in which a woman >> might > use her mother's maiden name on a marriage record? >> >> > > > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots- > admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the > list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this > list: researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Well. here's the thing, . . .   I am trying to help someone find her great-great grandmother's home village in the Poznan area of Poland.  Her name was Mariana Michalska (at least this someone thinks it was Michalska from a note on a photo of her sister Agnieszka.  Mariana was born in Dec. 1827.  She married an Andrew Baranowski in Poland sometime before 1853 when her first son was born.  (birthplace unknown; father's name taken from son's marriage record in US).   Now the LDS has a record: MARIANNA MICHALSKI  Christening:  08 DEC 1827   Katholische Kirche, Graudenz, Westpreussen, Preussen Parents:   Father:  ANDREAS MICHALSKI    Mother:  AGNES NOWICKA    (this family has about six children, the youngest I believe is an Agnieszka).   Now in the Poznan Marriage           --- On Mon, 7/21/08, Debbie Greenlee <daveg@airmail.net> wrote: From: Debbie Greenlee <daveg@airmail.net> Subject: Re: [POLAND] maiden names To: poland-roots@rootsweb.com Cc: anfyslek@yahoo.com Date: Monday, July 21, 2008, 9:59 AM If this is a Polish record, I picture the groom's name followed by his father's name and then mother's name possibly indicating _her_ maiden name or that SHE is the daughter of so and so. This column would be followed by other info and then the bride's name followed by her father's name and mother's name possibly indicating the _mother's_ maiden name or that she is the daughter of so and so (listing _her_ father's name). The nice thing about these formats is that you go back at least another generation or two. Now, if your situation is different than the above, I think we'd need more info. The best thing to do is to post a scan of the document so we can take a look at it. Let the list know if you need a place to post the scan. Debbie A F wrote: > Other than illegitimacy, are there any situations in which a woman might use her mother's maiden name on a marriage record? > >

Elise, I have found a lot of sponsors on certain ships records. Often, a non- citizen would have to list a friend with an address who was, presumably, going to keep them from being a vagrant ... in other words, a sponsor. Also, in census records, if you find your relative, look to see if this person was the head of the household. if they were single or without their family, they most likely would have been staying with friends/sponsors or in a boarding house (less likely). I found my grandfather Bognacki and his brother in a census as teenagers (young men in those times!) living with an uncle in New York (I knew that) and it actually had the address. I learned from this that my grandfather must have learned his trade (butcher) from his uncle because that was his profession when he lived there. Remember to always read ALL of the census info! On some ships records, I guess often with women traveling alone, the last column listed next of kin and their address in Poland. I learned from this, which matched up to the next passenger's record, that they must have been traveling together ... they were single teenage girls... since the next of kin were the only two from the same town. Also, remember that when looking for people in poland on passenger lists, that COUNTRY of origin could have been Russia or Germany, with their ETHNICITY Polish. Once I broke that code, I found a lot of records. Remember Poland wasn't actually a nation in the early 1900s. Hope this helps, Tiffany On Jul 21, 2008, at 9:38 AM, Elise Urbaniak wrote: > I don't have any suggestions on finding info on sponsors...it's an > interesting thought, though. My great-grandparents sponsored many > people, I > think they'd live in the basement of their house. There are never any > around at census time, but I was often curious who the people were > and where > they came from. My great-grandparents lived in Hamtramck, MI. Is > there > someplace to find out more about the sponsorship process. I 've never > looked, so forgive the question if it's got an obvious answer!! : ) > > Elise > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Click to learn about options trading and get the latest information. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/ > Ioyw6i3m5biUGIIh820a4ZryVDf43v2g4Zfo6tAseaJfeSwIpSCEcu/ > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots- > admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the > list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this > list: researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

I don't have any suggestions on finding info on sponsors...it's an interesting thought, though. My great-grandparents sponsored many people, I think they'd live in the basement of their house. There are never any around at census time, but I was often curious who the people were and where they came from. My great-grandparents lived in Hamtramck, MI. Is there someplace to find out more about the sponsorship process. I 've never looked, so forgive the question if it's got an obvious answer!! : ) Elise ____________________________________________________________ Click to learn about options trading and get the latest information. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m5biUGIIh820a4ZryVDf43v2g4Zfo6tAseaJfeSwIpSCEcu/

If this is a Polish record, I picture the groom's name followed by his father's name and then mother's name possibly indicating _her_ maiden name or that SHE is the daughter of so and so. This column would be followed by other info and then the bride's name followed by her father's name and mother's name possibly indicating the _mother's_ maiden name or that she is the daughter of so and so (listing _her_ father's name). The nice thing about these formats is that you go back at least another generation or two. Now, if your situation is different than the above, I think we'd need more info. The best thing to do is to post a scan of the document so we can take a look at it. Let the list know if you need a place to post the scan. Debbie A F wrote: > Other than illegitimacy, are there any situations in which a woman might use her mother's maiden name on a marriage record? > >

Other than illegitimacy, are there any situations in which a woman might use her mother's maiden name on a marriage record?    

Arlene, I can't answer your question but I do know of a family who went to Siberia and North Africa and no doubt other places in between. I happened to put in Border Crossing on Ancestry and their name and children came up. They were on their way to their sponsor in Texas. After a couple of years they came to Detroit where their uncle lived. I always wondered why the uncle did not sponsor them. The mother and father are gone but the brother and sister are still here. He was a young teenager and I will call him this week. I don't like to interrupt on a Sunday. Checking the information I don't think they had the opportunity to make a decision of where they were going. I never heard them complain but when their time was done they were happy to come to MI.where their family was. Irene,

Arlene, I don't think you'll find this information easily. Sponsors, as listed on the Passenger Arrival Records, would have to be transcribed and I don't think that's been the case with ancestry.com or Ellis Island web site. In order to find out who your grandfather sponsored, you'd have to know their names. Catch-22 situation I'm afraid. However, using one of Stephen Morse's search engines I think you can search by village, assuming you know your grandfather's birth village. The returns might be lengthy but certainly shorter than going through every single manifest! http://stevemorse.org/ Be prepared for "off" spellings for village names. Debbie kologen@verizon.net wrote: > Would anyone know where to locate the list of individuals from Poland who were sponsored by, in this case, my grandfather who lived in Vermont? > > Have heard many stories that he sponsored many people and would like to know if they were from the same area in Poland as he was. > > Appreciate any feedback. > > Arlene >

You conclusions are absolutely valid. The ending -ek is quite common in forming diminutives for male names. The Polish language has a wide variety of diminutive forms and each expresses a certain degree of familiarity or endearment level. Some evolve and are a bit difficult to connect to the original name. For example, diminutives for Sebastian might be Bastian or Bastianek from which we finally get the shortened form Bastek. Stephen is likely spelled Stefan or Stepan in Polish from which we get Stefek, Stepek and then Tepek. Alexandria to Ola is a bit more difficult to see. However, the Polish form can be either Aleksandria or Oleksandria from which we get the shortened forms Olka and, finally, Ola. Małgorzata produces the diminutive Małgosia and the shortened form Gosia. Roman Gizmo21323@aol.com wrote: > Regarding diminutives --- > > In 2000, I spend three weeks teaching at a school in Poland. There were two > Sebastians in my class, so one of the boys suggested that I call him Bastek > to distinguish him from the other boy. I then began to notice other > "nicknames" that seemed to be created by taking one syllable of the original name and > adding an -ek to it. (Can't recall any of those examples right now, but > there were a few). It seemed to me to be the equivalent of English nicknames > having -y added, such as Jim to Jimmy, Bill to Billy or Catherine to Cathy. My > uncle, Stephen, was called Tepek. Could that be an example of this? Or have > I just made some inaccurate assumptions based on a few examples? > > Another thing I noticed was the inability of the Polish speakers to > pronounce "th" as in thumb. A goal of my teaching was to improve spoken English of > students, so I had them practice that sound. It really made a difference and > they were proud when they could say "Thank you!" According to them, their > language doesn't have that sound. Could be why my Polish aunts and uncles > always said "Tank you" and other "th" words as "T". (We kids giggled whenever > they said the word "third.") > > So, could some linguist on this list (Fred Hoffman?) let me now if my > observations and conclusions make sense? > > > > In a message dated 7/17/2008 1:21:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > GkneeoloG@aol.com writes: > > I visited some relatives from Poland and was amazed and astounded by the > diminutives used for given names. First of all, there are more than one > for any > given name. Secondly, sometimes they don't even look - sound - or being > with the same letter as the given name. > > For example, Ola for Alexandria, Gosia for Malzgorata. > > I bet it was Tekla. > > >

<Gizmo21323@aol.com> wrote: > Regarding diminutives --- > > In 2000, I spend three weeks teaching at a > school in Poland. There were two > Sebastians in my class, so one of the boys > suggested that I call him Bastek > to distinguish him from the other boy. I then > began to notice other > "nicknames" that seemed to be created by taking > one syllable of the original name and > adding an -ek to it. (Can't recall any of those > examples right now, but > there were a few). It seemed to me to be the > equivalent of English nicknames > having -y added, such as Jim to Jimmy, Bill to > Billy or Catherine to Cathy. My > uncle, Stephen, was called Tepek. Could that > be an example of this? Or have > I just made some inaccurate assumptions based > on a few examples? As Ellen said, the Slavic languages are generally very rich in possibilities for creating diminutives or affectionate forms. In English, we usually just shorten a name and add -y or -ie to it. To a Slav, that's pathetic, like we're not even trying. A Slav may take almost any part of a given name, drop the rest, and add any of a variety of suffixes -- and as Ellen said, other Slavs will usually have no trouble following. Of course, some names have more short forms than others. A Boleslaw can be called Bolek, Bolus', or Bolo (I've never heard that one, but Jan Grzenia includes it in his _Slownik imion_, Dictionary of Given Names). A Stanislaw can be called Stach, Stasio, Stasiu, Stas', Staszek; a Jaroslaw can be called Jarek, Jareczek, Jarus'; and so on. And those are just the "standard" forms, the ones in common use. Within a family, all kinds of inventive creations may show up, names you wouldn't want to call someone unless you are on very close terms and you know he or she will not be offended. (In other words, when in doubt, don't. Let the Pole take the lead and tell you how he or she wants to be called.) > Another thing I noticed was the inability of the > Polish speakers to > pronounce "th" as in thumb. A goal of my > teaching was to improve spoken English of > students, so I had them practice that sound. It > really made a difference and > they were proud when they could say "Thank you!" Ellen is also right about TH being a real problem for Poles -- and not just Poles. Most Europeans find this particular sound very, very difficult to learn. It appears naturally in Icelandic, Greek, and Albanian (according to Wikipedia; I didn't know about Albanian!). Also, the Castillian dialect of Spanish turns some sibilants into "th," much to the amusement and scorn of Hispanics who speak other versions of Spanish. But I'm having trouble thinking of any other European language in which it is heard, other than English, of course. Germans and Slavs really have trouble with it. Sometimes they turn it into plain T, sometimes into a Z sound. If you were able to teach your students to pronounce English TH correctly, that was no small achievement! And when we non-Poles gripe about pronouncing _chrzaszcz_ and Szczebrzeszyn, we should have some appreciation for the horror with which a Pole regards words such as _thither_ or _thews_. Fred Hoffman

Would anyone know where to locate the list of individuals from Poland who were sponsored by , in this case, my grandfather who lived in Vermont? Have heard many stories that he sponsored many people and would like to know if they were from the same area in Poland as he was. Appreciate any feedback. Arlene

Polish language does not have the sound th, so your students were not pulling your leg ;=). Also, Polish language is a phonetic language - what you see is what you say - and follows the set rules of pronunciation. For Poles, especially daunting are the English vowels and the gazillion ways they are pronounced depending on the word. Polish lang uses pure vowels - one letter=one sound (like in Italian or Spanish). As for the diminutives, all Slavic languages have an infinitive possibilities of creating them. Some diminutives are well established and wide spread in use, some people make on the spot as the mood or situation dictates. And what is incomprehensible to the English speakers - all of those diminutives are grammatically correct and well understood by other native speakers. That is one more reason why the Slavic languages are so extremely difficult to learn if you've never been exposed to them. Ella > > According to them, > their > language doesn't have that sound. Could be why my Polish aunts and > uncles > always said "Tank you" and other "th" words as "T". (We kids giggled > whenever > they said the word "third.") > > So, could some linguist on this list (Fred Hoffman?) let me now if my > observations and conclusions make sense?