Hi Ruth, that is a very interesting point that you have raised. The only thing that we know is that she is supposed to have come from Poland. She certainly spoke Polish and her grand daughter, who was brought up by her grandmother) used to know a little Polish in her youth. She has forgotten most of it now. It is a great shame that Britain did not have any system similar to the Ellis Island entry records at that time. Maries eldest daughter is still alive but very frail and in a nursing home. It is from her that we have the suggestion that Marie originated from the Warsaw or Krakow area. All a bit vague I am afraid. Old peoples memories can often play tricks and not be quite accurate, but it is all we have to go on. The census records for 1920 might give more information about her origins but will not be available until 2021. We were banking on finding her in the incoming passenger lists in order to find out more information about her origins from the passenger manifest. So frustrating that neither Pam, myself, or those people on this list who have kindly looked, have found her. Typical of our bad luck if she is one of those anonymous servants. I am so grateful to all those folk who are trying to help with this. Regards, Chris

Chris, Neither surname spelling can be found in Poland. They were probably changed in order to fit with the local alphabet. I only found one spelling which is close enough to what you have provided. You might want to watch for it in Polish records: Pis'lak - (in case the diacritical mark doesn't appear = Pis~lak) Debbie Csgen50@aol.com wrote: > > > Hi, > > In actual fact, by setting the ball rolling in this discussion, you and > everyone else have helped me to understand the difficulties in obtaining > information about rellies in Poland. Looks like it will be a long job but hopefully > we will see light at the end of the tunnel eventually. > > Chris >

Chris, I did a little scouting around for the name Pizlak, and variations of the spelling, Pizlock, Pislak on Google, ancestry.com, and Ellis Island. I may be way off, but is it possible that the surname Pizlock/Pizlak could have originated from some other country close to Poland, and then some settled in Poland? It's just a thought. This idea came to me when I found only 1 Pizlak on the Poznan Marriage Project. It seemed odd that there was only 1 family with that name listed in the project, unless the towns where they were heavily concentrated in are not indexed yet, or they came from the Galicia Poland area, which I believe is not part of the project. Something to think about, Ruth Pokorny ----------- http://www.romanyk.com/ukrainian-store/ukrainian-english-names.htm Ukrainian Surnames The following list shows Ukrainian surnames spelled using English/Latin characters vs Ukrainian Cyrillic characters. English Ukrainian Pizlak Пізляк ----------- http://www.lemko.org/genealogy/krasovskiy/namesUS.html Listing adheres to the Ukrainian cyrillic alphabet, which I have transliterated into latin/American alphabet: A, B, V, G/H, D, J (Y), Zh, Z, I, Yo, K, L, M, N, O, P, R, S, T, U,F, Kh, Ts, Ch, Sh, ShCh, Y, Ye, Yu, Ya A Dictionary of Lemko Surnames Surnames translated from cyril alphabet to latin/Polish alphabet, not to Polish language! Pizliak Distorted surnames according to latin/Polish alphabet, see namesPL.html for proper diacritic display Pizlak Village name, translated from cyril alphabet to latin/Polish alphabet, not to Polish language! Horodok Total number of households bearing that surname 1 also see: http://www.lemko.org/index.html ----------- Ellis Island Database First Name: Piotr Last Name: Pizlak Ethnicity: Austria, Polish Last Place of Residence: Dobronnil, Galicia Date of Arrival: Jun 09, 1913 Age at Arrival: 26y Gender: M Marital Status: M Ship of Travel: George Washington Port of Departure: Bremen Manifest Line Number: 0024 Note from Ruth: Dobronnil, Galicia is most likely Dobromil, Galicia http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.dll?jg~jgsys~shtetm~-1037886 ---------- ancestry.com New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 Name: Franz Pislak Arrival Date: 8 Jul 1912 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878 Age: 34 Gender: Male Port of Departure: Bremen Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: slovakian Ship Name: George Washington Nativity: Croatia Line: 15 Microfilm Serial: T715 Microfilm Roll: T715_1894 Birth Location: Croatia Birth Location Other: potton Page Number: 131 ----------- ancestry.com New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 Name: Vilma Pislak Arrival Date: 8 Jul 1912 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886 Age: 26 Gender: Female Port of Departure: Bremen Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: slovakian Ship Name: George Washington Nativity: Croatia Line: 16 Microfilm Serial: T715 Microfilm Roll: T715_1894 Birth Location: Croatia Birth Location Other: kraljceovae Page Number: 131 ---------- ancestry.com New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 Name: Klementi Pislak Arrival Date: 10 May 1909 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882 Age: 27 Gender: Male Port of Departure: Bremen Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: Polish Ship Name: Berlin Nativity: Russia Line: 28 Microfilm Serial: T715 Microfilm Roll: T715_1262 Birth Location: Russia Birth Location Other: lechalisetki Page Number: 163 ------------ ancestry.com Philadelphia Passenger Lists, 1800-1945 Name: Justafy Pislak Arrival Date: 30 Dec 1911 Age: 37 Years Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874 Gender: Male Ethnic Background: Ruthenian (Russniak) (Ruthenian) Port of Departure: Bremen, Germany Ship Name: Hannover Port of Arrival: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Friend's Name: Osip Filipowicz Last Residence: Russia Birthplace: Korowa, Russia Microfilm Roll Number: T840_99 -------------- ancestry.com World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918 Name: Frank Pislak City: Youngstown County: Mahoning State: Ohio Birth Date: 2 Apr 1878 Born: Austria Hungary ----------- ancestry.com World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918 Name: George Pislak City: Youngstown County: Mahoning State: Ohio Birth Date: 24 Apr 1883 Born: Austria Hungary ----------- ancestry.com 1910 United States Federal Census Trenton Ward 8, Mercer, NJ 3 persons with the name Pislak were from Russia ------------- ancestry.com 1910 United States Federal Census Portage, Ottawa, OH 2 persons with the name Pislak were from Hungary (note-this seems to be the Frank from the WWI Draft Card.) ------------- ancestry.com 1920 United States Federal Census Coaldale, Schuylkill, Pennsylvania 3 persons with the name Pislak were from Slovakia

Karen, I was able to e-mail the picture privately to Vodeck and Joe, and both came to a similar conclusion on the last 3 letters. Roman and Vodeck both came to the same conclusion with the first letters. I have writing on one headstone spelled TU SPOCZYWA. There is only one person's name on that headstone. TU SPOCZYWA = Here Rests. I have writing on another headstone spelled TU SPOCZYWAJA. There are two person's name on that headstone. TU SPOCZYWAJA = Here Rests. In plural form. Ruth Pokorny ------------------- <<Two words: TU SPOCZYWA = Here Rests>> Roman <<It is more likely "Tu Spoczywaja" (last letter a with diacritics) The translation of the above is "Here Rests" in plural form.>> Vodeck <<I could be wrong, but I think the last 3 letters are "2 (as number 2) SP" (Swietej Pamieci - 1st word letter S accented, letter e with diacritics, 2nd word letter e with diacritics). This means both are in holy memory, or something similar. Although it could also be "Z (letter Z) SP (explanation as above)", which means 'with", but according to polish language when I was in school, the first option is more probable. But you have to remember we talking about old polish language. I hope some other people give you some other ideas or more info>>. Vodeck <<Ruth, I'm pretty sure the letters are ZSP, standing for "z swietej pamieci", for "of pious memory." You don't really need the "z" in Polish, but it can be added in.>>> Joe

Dans un e-mail daté du 27/10/2008 16:37:45 Romance Standard Time, PolishDragon@att.net a écrit : Chris: Sorry you didn't get any help from my response. PD Hi, In actual fact, by setting the ball rolling in this discussion, you and everyone else have helped me to understand the difficulties in obtaining information about rellies in Poland. Looks like it will be a long job but hopefully we will see light at the end of the tunnel eventually. Chris

The advice below is very good. That way everyone can see the pic.....but on the other hand you might just email the pic privately to those who have been most helpful to you. Chances are they will be even more helpful to you. Just a thought.... Karen Prytula ----- Original Message ----- From: "MJDallas" <rwlistsboards@comcast.net> To: <poland-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [POLAND] Help with the spelling and meaning of a word > Ruth wrote: >> I scanned the picture, but I don't know where to post it. > > Ruth, > > Since this mailing list "works" only through email and in plain > text, you can't attach image files or any other type of file to list > messages. So what I suggest is to attach it to a message posted to > one of the RootsWeb/Ancestry message boards and provide a link to > the message on this list. > > See this archived message for directions on how to do this: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/POLAND-ROOTS/2008-02/1202397900 > > -Marie > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as > long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: > researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

-------------- Original message from Csgen50@aol.com: -------------- BTW, a civil marriage is most definately NOT the same as a church marriage in UK. The church marriage refers to a church of any denomination with a vicar/minister/priest conducting the service. A civil marriage is in a registry office or (more recently) other premises licenced to hold weddings and, is performed by a public employee/civil servant, totally unconnected to the church. In the UK you do one thing or the other, not both, but all records are entered into the central BMD registers. Chris: Sorry you didn't get any help from my response. And thanks for reminding me about Registrar marriages. In trying to visualize a paper trail for you to follow, I lost sight of that possibility. Good luck in your research. PD

Ruth wrote: > I scanned the picture, but I don't know where to post it. Ruth, Since this mailing list "works" only through email and in plain text, you can't attach image files or any other type of file to list messages. So what I suggest is to attach it to a message posted to one of the RootsWeb/Ancestry message boards and provide a link to the message on this list. See this archived message for directions on how to do this: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/POLAND-ROOTS/2008-02/1202397900 -Marie

Looking for Steinert; Lamprecht; Weichert; Witt in Lower Silesia, thankyou, Robyn Levy

We returned from Poland and Holland at 9:30 p.m. Thursday night. We are still jet lagged - in bed last night at 6 p.m. and awake before 4 a.m. Hope we get back to normal quickly. Our trip was wonderful, all flights on time. The first 8 days we had marvelous weather - shirt sleeves in Krakow! They had had so much rain just before our visit that we wondered what we would find. But we were lucky. We walked our feet off in both Warsaw and Krakow with my young cousins (met on the internet). I'm sure we could have seen more if we had more energy. Our guide in Krakow was Janusz,a second cousin aged 26 who is studying in Krakow. We drove from Krakow to Zakopane where the weather and scenery was fantastic. With all their rain the mountains were covered in snow. >From there to Tarnow and Niedomice where my grandfather was born in 1869. We did not plan to do any genealogical research, just meet relatives and see the house where my grandfather was born. Ania, another second cousin, met us in Tarnow and we drove from the Hotel Dunajec to the old town where we met her husband and proceeded to have a very nice dinner in an old Polish restaurant there. The next morning Ania picked us up and we went to Niedomice after a stop in Tarnow to buy some souvenirs. The weather had deteriorated to short periods of rain by this time. We first went to Niedomice to meet Cecylia Ania's grandmother) and had coffee, tea and cake with her. What a lovely lady, she is the widow of my first cousin, once removed. The teacher in her came out and she was trying to teach us Polish. It is hopeless!! She wants me to come back next summer so she can teach me more. When we tried to tell people we spent a night in Szczawnica we had to show them on a map. We can now sort of pronounce it correctly. Then Ania pointed to a sign for Rzeszow - I wasn't even close! So I know it's hopeless. When it stopped raining we drove to the Niedomice cemetery and Cecylia took us to her husband's grave, then to a cousin's. From there we went to the cemetery in Zabno thinking to find relatives graves there. We had a photo from 1979 when my mother visited. But nothing was familiar. Next we went to the cemetery in Leg Tarnowski and looked for more graves. We didn't find any but many were unmarked with nothing but a cross. Knowing from cousins there that this was the earlier church for Niedomice we rang the bell at the priests' home. The one who answered said he knew the old books were there, but he was not familiar with them. So we should try to come back later when the other priests were back from their teaching jobs. We left and planned to return. Then we went back to Niedomice for lunch with Janusz' parents. Janusz knew I was dying for homemade pierogies so he asked his mother to make some. I'm sure she spent all morning as there were two huge platters of meat filled and kraut filled pierogies. I will never buy frozen again! This family live in the same home where my grandfather was born in 1869 so it was quite a thrill for me to be there. After eating and walking around the farm and down to the river, Janusz and I filled in some blanks on relatives charts. Then it was back to Leg Tarnowski for another look through the cemetery. This time Janusz found the grave of my grandfather's brother which had been in the photo mentioned above. No stone or name, you just had to know where to look. We again knocked on the rectory door. This time a priest welcomed us in and took us to his office where the old books were setting on a shelf. Books over 200 years old! He was very pleasant and eager to help us with our search for names. He showed us how to use the index book to find the original record in the baptismal records. After about 30 minutes he had to leave but said we could stay as long as we liked! How lucky can you get? These records go back to 1785 so we found quite a few baptisms. I wish we could have stayed another day to look at all the books there. However, when I got back to the hotel where we had free internet usage I checked the Mormon library site to see if the records at Leg Tarnowski had been filmed. Great news - they had. So now I will order them sent to my local Mormon church where I can study them all day long and with a magnifying glass. I know there are lots more names and dates to check. It really helps to have local knowledge or I would never have thought to look in Leg Tarnowski for my ancestors. I plan to write to the Mormon library and ask them to cross-reference Niedomice - Jurkow - Leg Tarnowski in case someone else needs the data. Cecylia's son Jan (Ania's father) and his wife Barbara had us for drinks and dinner/supper that night. About 14 cousins showed up at different times. We were given such a warm welcome - something we will never forget. Everyone in Niedomice remembered that my mother visited in 1979 - even if they didn't get to meet her. Some were not even born. I wonder if they will be talking about our visit in 2040??? I think that about covers it. We had a wonderful time and accomplished so much more than expected. Regards, Sharon Galitz., Surprise, Arizona

>Thankyou to Chris, Debbie and Ruth for their replies. > >I had already considered that the hoi poloi might travel by a different  >route/method to the upper or diplomatic classes. >However, since I know nothing  >about any possible routes during war time the >question was a general one about  >routes during the conflict. > >What a shame there is no central registry of BMDs in Poland as such. I can  >see how it would be necessary to know where >Marie came from but this is exactly > the sort of information we were hoping to glean from a birth record. We do >know her fathers name, Jan Pizlock, occupation upholsterer. > Does her death record provide any details on her place of birth? -- --- Chris Smolinski Black Cat Systems http://www.blackcatsystems.com

Thankyou to Chris, Debbie and Ruth for their replies. I had already considered that the hoi poloi might travel by a different route/method to the upper or diplomatic classes. However, since I know nothing about any possible routes during war time the question was a general one about routes during the conflict. What a shame there is no central registry of BMDs in Poland as such. I can see how it would be necessary to know where Marie came from but this is exactly the sort of information we were hoping to glean from a birth record. We do know her fathers name, Jan Pizlock, occupation upholsterer. Many thanks Ruth for all the info that you extracted. Marie did sometimes spell her name as Pizlak rather than Pizlock. At least we now know that the name is Polish as it stands rather than being shortened or adapted from a longer, harder to pronounce, version. Since Marie arrived during the war years I had hoped to find her on some kind of Aliens Register. Sadly, it was apparantly only required to register with the local police on arrival at the final address (rather than port of entry) and these records were not considered important enough to be kept for posterity. Poland was of course under the control of Russia at the time rather than a nation in its own right, with some areas being controlled by Germany and the Austro Hungarian empire. So, depending exactly where she came from in Poland she might have been considered an enemy alien. We know that Marie was in domestic service before her marriage but unfortunately we do not know if she was in service in Poland and then travelled with that family to UK or if she travelled alone and entered service on arrival in UK. The question of religion is an interesting one. Maries grand daughter was brought up by her grandparents as her own mother died very young from cancer. Apparantly the impression that our cousin always had was that Marie was a staunch catholic. However, she never attended church on a regular basis, and there was a Catholic church locally. She was married in Church of England. All her children were baptised and later married in Church of England and when she died she was buried in the Church of England. So, some confusion there. Thankyou for the list of LDS films. I have never had any luck trying to access Polish LDS data online and assumed that it was not available online. I believe that the films can be rented but I only have a fiche reader not a film reader. There is an LDS contact about 40 mins from here. I do not know if they have research facilities as there is no open access. It is necessary to phone for an appointment. So, I am not sure if they can help in regard to the films and viewing them. So, for the time being, the search goes on. regards, Chris

Hi Ruth, It is more likely "Tu Spoczywaja" (last letter a with diacritics) remaining could be "Nasi" or "Nasze" or other options. If you could post the scan it will be much easier to translate. The translation of the above is "Here Rests" in plural form. Remaining depend on what exactly is there in the above example "Nasi" - Ours like parents or grandparents, etc. "Nasze" - Ours like children, or grandchildren, etc. I hope this will help you. Vodeck > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 16:09:47 -0500 > From: "Ruth" <ppokorny@new.rr.com> > Subject: [POLAND] Help with the spelling and meaning of a word > To: <poland-roots@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <001701c937af$2d48a5b0$6401a8c0@yourf78bf48ce2> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hello, > > I also have another picture of a headstone with similar writing, but has > more letters. > > TUSPOCZYWAJAZS?? > > Thanks, > Ruth Pokorny > -------------- > > Hello, > > I am trying to find out what the right spelling and what this word means. It > is a word on a headstone of one of my grandfather's brothers. > > TUSPOOZYWA > TUSPODZYWA > > I'm not sure if the letters T, U, second O or D, and A are right. > > Thanks, > Ruth Pokorny >

Vodeck, Yes, it is It "Tu Spoczywaja". But all the letters are close together as one word. It must be meant for the plural "Here Rests", because both my great grandparents are on this headstone. I still can't quite make out what the last 3? letters are. The first one looks lika a "Z" or "2", the second may be an "S". The last one or two letters is hard to make out. I scanned the picture, but I don't know where to post it. Ruth Pokorny ----- Original Message ----- From: "WT Computer Products Inc." <wtcomputer@accesswave.ca> To: <poland-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [POLAND] POLAND-ROOTS Digest, Vol 3, Issue 381 > Hi Ruth, > > It is more likely "Tu Spoczywaja" (last letter a with diacritics) > remaining could be "Nasi" or "Nasze" or other options. > If you could post the scan it will be much easier to translate. > The translation of the above is "Here Rests" in plural form. > Remaining depend on what exactly is there in the above example "Nasi" - > Ours like parents or grandparents, etc. "Nasze" - Ours like children, or > grandchildren, etc. > I hope this will help you. > > Vodeck

Sharon, Sounds like you had a wonderful time! Glad to hear it. I think your intention of not doing research was a good one; just going to enjoy the country and your "new" relatives. The surprise information you obtained was a plus! The only way to not put on weight in Poland is to walk - everywhere. Do you think you'll go back next year? The dollar is up and that means a better exchange rate - right now, anyway. Debbie Sharon Galitz wrote: > Hi list, > > We returned from Poland and Holland at 9:30 p.m. Thursday night. We are > still jet lagged - in bed last night at 6 p.m. and awake before 4 a.m. Hope > we get back to normal quickly. > > Our trip was wonderful, all flights on time. The first 8 days we had > marvelous weather - shirt sleeves in Krakow! They had had so much rain just > before our visit that we wondered what we would find. But we were lucky. > We walked our feet off in both Warsaw and Krakow with my young cousins (met > on the internet). I'm sure we could have seen more if we had more energy. > Our guide in Krakow was Janusz,a second cousin aged 26 who is studying in > Krakow. > > We drove from Krakow to Zakopane where the weather and scenery was > fantastic. With all their rain the mountains were covered in snow. From > there to Tarnow and Niedomice where my grandfather was born in 1869. We did > not plan to do any genealogical research, just meet relatives and see the > house where my grandfather was born. > > Ania, another second cousin, met us in Tarnow and we drove from the Hotel > Dunajec to the old town where we met her husband and proceeded to have a > very nice dinner in an old Polish restaurant there. The next morning Ania > picked us up and we went to Niedomice after a stop in Tarnow to buy some > souvenirs. > > The weather had deteriorated to short periods of rain by this time. We > first went to Niedomice to meet Cecylia Ania's grandmother) and had coffee, > tea and cake with her. What a lovely lady, she is the widow of my first > cousin, once removed. The teacher in her came out and she was trying to > teach us Polish. It is hopeless!! She wants me to come back next summer so > she can teach me more. When we tried to tell people we spent a night in > Szczawnica we had to show them on a map. We can now sort of pronounce it > correctly. Then Ania pointed to a sign for Rzeszow - I wasn't even close! > So I know it's hopeless. > > When it stopped raining we drove to the Niedomice cemetery and Cecylia took > us to her husband's grave, then to a cousin's. From there we went to the > cemetery in Zabno thinking to find relatives graves there. We had a photo > from 1979 when my mother visited. But nothing was familiar. > > Next we went to the cemetery in Leg Tarnowski and looked for more graves. > We didn't find any but many were unmarked with nothing but a cross. Knowing > from cousins there that this was the earlier church for Niedomice we rang > the bell at the priests' home. The one who answered said he knew the old > books were there, but he was not familiar with them. So we should try to > come back later when the other priests were back from their teaching jobs. > We left and planned to return. > > Then we went back to Niedomice for lunch with Janusz' parents. Janusz knew > I was dying for homemade pierogies so he asked his mother to make some. I'm > sure she spent all morning as there were two huge platters of meat filled > and kraut filled pierogies. I will never buy frozen again! > > This family live in the same home where my grandfather was born in 1869 so > it was quite a thrill for me to be there. After eating and walking around > the farm and down to the river, Janusz and I filled in some blanks on > relatives charts. Then it was back to Leg Tarnowski for another look > through the cemetery. This time Janusz found the grave of my grandfather's > brother which had been in the photo mentioned above. No stone or name, you > just had to know where to look. We again knocked on the rectory door. This > time a priest welcomed us in and took us to his office where the old books > were setting on a shelf. Books over 200 years old! He was very pleasant > and eager to help us with our search for names. He showed us how to use the > index book to find the original record in the baptismal records. After > about 30 minutes he had to leave but said we could stay as long as we > liked! How lucky can you get? These records go back to 1785 so we found > quite a few baptisms. I wish we could have stayed another day to look at > all the books there. > > However, when I got back to the hotel where we had free internet usage I > checked the Mormon library site to see if the records at Leg Tarnowski had > been filmed. Great news - they had. So now I will order them sent to my > local Mormon church where I can study them all day long and with a > magnifying glass. I know there are lots more names and dates to check. It > really helps to have local knowledge or I would never have thought to look > in Leg Tarnowski for my ancestors. I plan to write to the Mormon library > and ask them to cross-reference Niedomice - Jurkow - Leg Tarnowski in case > someone else needs the data. > > Cecylia's son Jan (Ania's father) and his wife Barbara had us for drinks > and dinner/supper that night. About 14 cousins showed up at different > times. We were given such a warm welcome - something we will never forget. > Everyone in Niedomice remembered that my mother visited in 1979 - even if > they didn't get to meet her. Some were not even born. I wonder if they > will be talking about our visit in 2040??? > > I think that about covers it. We had a wonderful time and accomplished so > much more than expected. > > Regards, > > Sharon Galitz., Surprise, Arizona > > PS - With all the great food I was surprised to see I only gained 5 pounds > in three weeks! It must have been all the walking.

Chris, You did not specify which religion Marie was. I found only 1 marriage with the surname Pizlak on the Poznan Marriage Project at this time dated in 1874. It may be a long shot, but maybe relatives of Marie? But the town, called Odolanów, is 100 miles or so from Warsaw and Krakow. Maybe a place to start? Hope this helps, Ruth Pokorny -------------- http://bindweed.man.poznan.pl/posen/search.php Protestant community in Odolanów [Adelnau], entry # 9a in 1874 score: Groom: 75% Jacob Pizlak (27) father: Johann Pizlak, mother: Agnes Ratajch Marie Kursawska (18) father: Michael Kursawski, mother: Barbara --------------- Protestant community in Odolanów [Adelnau], entry # 12 in 1843 score: Groom: 46% Michael Kurzawe (23) father: Johann Kurzawe Barbara Dietrich previously married Babka (31) Additional information: widow;1st husband: Michael Babka -------------- http://bindweed.man.poznan.pl/posen/data/parish.php?parish=odo4 Odolanów Adelnau (Odolanow) 5134 1742 KA District capital Roman Catholic parish 8000 souls (in 1888) Includes: Baby, Balamacek, Biadaszki, Bogdaj, Boników, Garki, Glesnica, Gorzyckie Huby, Gorzyczki, Granowiec, Harych, Huta, Koczurza, Krzyzne, Kuroch, Nabyszyce, Odolanów (Adelnau), Przerwa, Raczyce, Swieca, Tarchaly Male, Tarchaly Wielkie, Wierzbno, Zawidza Archdiocesan Archive in Poznan B 1711-1742 1746-1920 M 1711-1743 1785-1933 D 1711-1742 1785-1919 State Archive in Poznan B 1808-1809 1818-1819 1821-1830 1850-1860 1862-1867 1873 M 1813-1814 1818-1819 1821-1830 1850-1860 1863-1867 1873-1874 D 1813-1814 1818-1830 1850-1860 1863-1867 1872 1874 LDS microfilms BMD 1855-1865 1808-1809 1813-1814 1818-1819 D 1820 BMD 1821-1825 747355 #2 BMD 1826-1830 1850-1855 747356 BMD 1856-1860 B 1862 BMD 1863-1865 747357 B 1767-1805 M 1785-1806 D 1785-1807 BMD 1803-1824 B 1825-1827 1191171 #2-7 B 1827-1831 D 1825-1831 M 1825-1846 B 1831-1847 D 1832-1854 1191172 D 1854-1863 B 1848-1882 M 1847-1880 1191173 M 1880-1881 D 1864-1894 B 1883-1900 D 1896-1919 M 1883-1895 1191174 M 1895-1910 1191175 #1 BMD 1866-1874 1191377 #11-21 B 1901-1911 2061981 #2 D 1900-1919 2061981 #3 B 1912-1914 2061981 #4 B 1914-1919 2061982 #1 M 1900-1933 2061982 #2 B 1711-1743 D 1711-1742 M 1711-1743 2202570 #3 B 1746-1776 2202570 #4 B 1864-1894 M 1864-1894 D 1864-1895 2202570 #5 M 1806-1824 D 1808-1824 2202570 #6 Lutheran community 1780 * 2900 souls (ca. 1900) State Archive in Poznan B 1776-1875 M 1776-1919 D 1780-1876 LDS microfilms B 1770-1826 1818-1820 747358 B 1821-1865 747359 M 1776-1826 1817-1865 747360 D 1780-1841 1818-1826 MD 1827 BMD 1828-1830 747361 D 1842-1865 BMD 1849-1859 747362 BMD 1860 1862-1865 747363 BMD 1866 MD 1867 BMD 1874 1191377 #22-29 Civil registry USC Odolanów State Archive in Kalisz B 1874- i1874-1894 M 1874- i1874-1894 D 1874- i1874-1894 LDS microfilms BMD 1874-1875 1201064 BMD 1876-1877 1201065 MD 1877 1201066 #1-4 BMD 1878 2092134 #20-22 D 1878 BMD 1879-1880 2092135 BMD 1881-1882 B 1883 2092136 BMD 1883-1884 B 1885 2092137 BMD 1885-1886 B 1887 2092138 BMD 1887 2092139 B 1888 2092213 #22 MD 1888 BMD 1889 B 1890 2092214 MD 1890 BMD 1891 B 1892 2092215 BMD 1892-1893 2092216 #1-6 BMD i1874-1877 2380066 #7 BMD i1878-1883 2380066 #8 BMD i1878-1883 2380067 #1 BMD i1884-1894 2380067 #2

>You state that to find a birth record the focus should be narrower than >simply Krakow or Warsaw but that is a rather vague statement. What are you >actually suggesting? I am assuming by stating this that there is no central  >register of BMDs in Poland such as exists in UK >since 1837. I had rather hoped that >I would be directed to this type of repository in Poland. If such a registry >does in fact exist then this is what I need to know about and also how to >access the information. There is no such registry. You need to identify the exact parish the person was born in to find their birth record. That's where an immigration record is useful, typically it will list the town they were born in. The good news is that Polish BMD records from that time period are often far more detailed than British records. You may learn the names of other family members who were witnesses or godparents, for example. -- --- Chris Smolinski Black Cat Systems http://www.blackcatsystems.com

Hello, (Sorry you do not give your name) Thank you for your interest in my enquiry. Unfortunately you have not told me anything that I do not already know. I did not ask for any information about Maries marriage or anything else about her later life and family. I am fully aware of the information available on such sites as Ancestry and have already been checking the incoming passenger lists myself. I am also able to check records at the National Archives when I am visit the UK. I did state quite clearly that Marie travelled during the war and not before. By stating in or about 1915 I was referring to the end of 1914 or, more likely, 1916. You state that to find a birth record the focus should be narrower than simply Krakow or Warsaw but that is a rather vague statement. What are you actually suggesting? I am assuming by stating this that there is no central register of BMDs in Poland such as exists in UK since 1837. I had rather hoped that I would be directed to this type of repository in Poland. If such a registry does in fact exist then this is what I need to know about and also how to access the information. BTW, a civil marriage is most definately NOT the same as a church marriage in UK. The church marriage refers to a church of any denomination with a vicar/minister/priest conducting the service. A civil marriage is in a registry office or (more recently) other premises licenced to hold weddings and, is performed by a public employee/civil servant, totally unconnected to the church. In the UK you do one thing or the other, not both, but all records are entered into the central BMD registers. Thankyou for trying to help. Regards, Chris

Chris, Polish Dragon did in fact tell you something you didn't know. "Travel? Any way you can imagine. If diplomatic employers, a more direct route" Personally, I don't think your statement, "in or about 1915" and your later statement, "I was referring to the end of 1914 or, more likely, 1916" was very clear and PD's response, "around 1915 might have meant 1914 before the war!" was within reason I think. Warsaw and Krakow are very large cities and, in 1914-1999 were also the names of wojewo~dztwo (provinces). Most people who left Poland did not live _in_ the cities but in the wojewo~dztwo. The wojewo~dztwo were large areas. In order to find records in Poland, you need to know the village, not just the wojewo~dztwo. The church is the first place to look for records. Actually, the first place to look is LDS (Mormons) films: http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=localitysearch&columns=*,0,0 Keep in mind that most of the records filmed by LDS are parish records so it isn't enough to just know the birth village, you'll also need to know the parish for that birth village. This list might be able to help you locate the parish once you know the village. (The church is the second place to look.) As someone else mentioned the Passenger Arrival Records should have the immigrant's last place of residence (village) and/or birth village name. Debbie PolishDragon@att.net wrote: > > -------------- Original message from Csgen50@aol.com: -------------- > >> A relative of ours left Poland and migrated to England in or about 1915. As >> this was during the time of WW1 I would be interested to hear by what route >> they might have travelled. Marie would only have been about 17 years of age herself and no other member of her family travelled with her. However, she >> might > possibly have travelled with a family with whom she was employed 'in >> service' at the time. >> >> Her name was Marie Pizlock but it possible that her name might have been >> anglicized to this version from something sounding rather more Polish. >> >> In addition I would like to ask how I would go about trying to trace a birth >> record for Marie. We believe that she may have originated from Warsaw or >> Krakow. > > Chris: Is she the Marie Pizlock married to Silas Page in 1923? Got her marriage record both civil and church? (oops! just remembered--UK civil IS church.)Warsaw or Krakow is not going to be of any help. You need a narrower focus! > Travel? Any way you can imagine. If diplomatic employers, a more direct route and around 1915 might have meant 1914 before the war! Ancestry has UK INCOMING passenger lists online. I don't see her, but she may have been listed as "Lady Gotrock's maid". <g> There are numerous maids, valets, butlers, nannies who will be forever nameless. > PolishDragon@att.net > >

Roman, Thank you for the meaning of the words TU SPOCZYWA. Looking at the picture again, I now see that the "second O or D" is really a "C" I just scanned the picture of the headstone with the letters TUSPOCZYWAJAZS?? Zooming in the picture will bring the letters in focus pretty clear. Where do I post the image? Thanks, Ruth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roman" <romanka@comcast.net> To: <poland-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [POLAND] Help with the spelling and meaning of a word > Ruth, > > Although I guessed the first one, you will likely get better answers if > you simply post a readable image of the original headstone. Otherwise we > simply guess what you guessed. Not a good way to respond. > > Roman > > Ruth wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I also have another picture of a headstone with similar writing, but has >> more letters. >> >> TUSPOCZYWAJAZS?? >> >> Thanks, >> Ruth Pokorny >> -------------- >> >> Hello, >> >> I am trying to find out what the right spelling and what this word means. >> It >> is a word on a headstone of one of my grandfather's brothers. >> >> TUSPOOZYWA >> TUSPODZYWA >> >> I'm not sure if the letters T, U, second O or D, and A are right. >> >> Thanks, >> Ruth Pokorny >> >> >> ********************************* >> Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at >> Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com >> ---------------------------------- >> Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list >> as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: >> researching our Polish roots. >> ---------------------------------- >> Browse the list's archives here: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots >> Search the list's archives here: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as > long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: > researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >