John, The first and most important aspect of your research is transliteration and after that comes translation. In order to transliterate, namely, copy the information into your database, you need to become familiar with the handwriting. That comes with practice and patience. You need to look at a lot of records written by the same person and learn how that person scribes the various letters of the alphabet. You will soon be able to differentiate an "r" from a "z" or a "T" with an "F", an "I" and a "J". And when you have problems, then post a good scan of the entire page for us to look at and help you out with it. You will in time learn the typical European script. Roman John Ruther wrote: > I suppose what I am asking may be fairly obvious to researchers who > have been involved for years in this art, so excuse my naiveté. I > have been researching a Slesin film regarding my Chrapkowski and > Borzych families from the 1830's through 1866. What I have been doing > is recording all such named people and their spouses, knowing full > well that some are not related, others may be distantly related and > still others are my ancestors. After I am finished with this film, I > would like to scan an earlier film in the same manner and, hopefully, > then try and put "like families" together in an attempt to patch > together all of my ancestors. That seems to be everyone's task, I > would imagine. > > My complication is simply that the records are in Polish and I, like > many of you, do not speak, read or write the language; so, I am > getting a bit of a linguistic schooling out of all of this work as > well. I find it fascinating, but my inability to understand the > language also presents another issue, and that is, if this search is > difficult for me, is it equally, or maybe to a lessor degree, > difficult for the researhers / transcribers, such as folks working on > the Poznan Project, to understand what the record is saying? > > Recently, and I don't have the example here in front of me, but I > found a marriage record on the film at the FHC. Since it fell within > the parameters of the Poznan Project, I checked that record with the > project to see if my interpretation of what was "hand written by the > Priest at the time" was in sync with the translator from the Poznan > Project. Well, what I interpreted as a capital "B" turned out, on the > Poznan Project to be a "K". What I thought was a "z", was an "r". If > it was not for the Poznan project, I would have had the name > completely wrong and future research in that direction would have > been thwarted. > > Then, I thought, how do I know that the Translator for the Poznan > Project was correct? Should I just accept the fact that since I am > ignorant of all language Polish, I should simply say, "I have no > other choice. Go with it."? Which, I indeed did do. > > Then I came across a record of a gentleman whose first name was > Felix. It seems to me to be definitely Felix. I have a relative with > the name Felican and another named Florian, (I think the family was > into alliteration) none of which are on the Poznan Project. So, I am > wondering if there is a web site that lists all Polish "Given Names" > which one might compare a record to. > > I began reading the Univ. of Pitts. Polish Grammar site and, while a > bit confusing, it does help to understand combinations of letters > used in the Polish language. So, if something looks like a "SJCP" you > might try a "SZCZ" instead. But to know whether or not a particular > name "fits" the language would be a boost; if Poles never used the > name Felix for example, then you would know, no matter what it looked > like, that Felix was not the name. (I only use Felix here as an > example. I do know that at least one Pole used the name Felix because > he was my Twice Great Granddad.) > > Thank you for any assistance you may have in this regard, > > John ********************************* Need to contact the list > manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- Discussion of Polish food, > culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the > discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our > Polish roots. ---------------------------------- Browse the list's > archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots Search the > list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please > send an email to POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message >

pozostajemy = we remain Roman Bill wrote: > Roman, > > I thought that if I asked for too much that I might not get an > answer; my dictionary had all of the other words in it. > > "Z~ycza~c jeszcze raz wszystkiego najlepszego I Wam I cal~ej Rodzinie > pozostajemy z nadzieja~ na nasze spotkanie w przyszl~ym roku" > > Thanks for the reply, Bill > > Subject: Re: [POLAND] please translate one word for me > > Bill, > > I haven't seen a correct response to your question yet. What sentence > makes sense to you now? > > > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I have to say, You people are amazing. I had a question and, literally, within minutes I was getting good answers and great advice. There is no doubt that I will ask Santa for Fred's book, In Their Words. (Fred: I know of three folks to whom you will owe a commission.) Also, Bronwyn, Roman and the PD, thank you for your good suggestions. One thing I have done is gone back to the FHC and, using a rather decent digital camera, I was able to photograph every record in which I was interested, plus some of the other records on a single page which now allows me to "examine" the handwriting of the Priest as well. I asked at the FHC and you are allowed to take photos as long as the information you are dealing with is not restricted. Of course, on simply an observational note: Everyone has a different handwriting and some are really poor, while questioning them, you bless those who took their time and wrote in a nice, neat, legible manner. When looking at all of these microfilms, you wonder about the person who wrote the original records: What is the sense of keeping a record, if you write in such a manner that it is not legible? Well, maybe there are many reason for doing that, one being, perhaps a person wants to comply with a law, but does not wish the "Law" to use the information, among others. But more than likely, as I am quickly learning, it was most probably caused by age. However, one thing I have a hard time understanding is "Why take the trouble to microfilm a record if the microfilm is blurred, or the exposure so overexposed that it is not worth anyone's while to bother with it? I suppose there are good answers there too. Anyway, thank you all. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone on the list and to all your family members. John

If you don't already have a copy, please immediately order Fred Hoffman's excellent book _In Their Words_ Volume 1: Polish. In addition to a working vocabulary of the Polish word's you're likely to encounter, it also has real examples of the various BMD records you will encounter, and step by step translations of them, including many handwriting examples. The other thing that I have found useful is to compare adjacent documents written by the same priest. You will quickly learn his particular handwriting style. The same surnames will come up time and time again in a particular parish, so you can find many other examples to study and compare to. You'll also discover subtle variations in the spelling of the surname over time. -- --- Chris Smolinski Black Cat Systems http://www.blackcatsystems.com

My apologies to Jonathan Shea. I knew it was a co-authored work, but in my haste, overlooked that. Trish Stumpf Garcia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Hoffman" <wmfhoffman@sbcglobal.net> To: <poland-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 1:30 PM Subject: Re: [POLAND] Interpreting Polish Records found on FHC - LDS films > Hi, > > I appreciate very much the kind words from Chris > Smolinski and Trish Stumpf Garcia regarding _In > Their Words ... Volume 1: Polish_. It's really > gratifying when researchers are comfortable > recommending to others a book you worked on! I do > want to add one thing, however -- I co-authored > that book with Jonathan Shea, and the book was his > idea in the first place. So it would be kind of > outrageous if I sat back and took all the credit > myself. > > John Ruther's note has received many good answers. > If I may add a couple of ideas, this Web site is > worth consulting for Polish given names: > > http://www.edziecko.pl/ciaza_i_porod/0,79473.html > > "Imiona dla chlopca" selects "Names for a boy," > and I'll bet you can figure out for yourself what > "Imiona dla dziewczynki" means. > > The info on the names is all in Polish, and > includes some blather about what astrologers have > to say about the character of people who bear > these names. So it's not as if I wholly endorse > this site. But if what you need is a reasonably > comprehensive list of Polish first names to > compare against what you see in records, this site > is helpful. I'd say > http://www.behindthename.com/nmc/pol.php is the > best place to start, but if you don't find what > you need there, the Edziecko site is worth a try. > > As for surnames, the 1990 database at > http://www.herby.com.pl/indexslo.html is a big > help because you can input parts of names, using > wild cards, to get a range of surnames that match > the relevant criteria. For instance, if you're > trying to figure out the first letter of a name > that looks like _UKOMSKI, a search for ?UKOMSKI > will quickly tell you the most likely candidate. > Or if you're the first part of the name is SZY- > and the last part is -KOWSKI, a search for > SZY*KOWSKI will give you a list you can study for > the best fit. > > The 1990 data in the Herby database is less > accurate than the 2002 data on the Moikrewni site > (http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/), but the Herby > database is easier to use, in my opinion. There's > a learning curve involved, but when I'm not sure > about a name, I find the Herby site more helpful. > I wrote an article in _Gen Dobry!_ designed to > help people with the tough parts; it's called "The > Slownik nazwisk Is Still Online" and you can find > it here: > > http://www.polishroots.org/gendobry/PDF/GenDobry_VII_11.pdf > > I hope that's some help. > > Fred Hoffman > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi John, I concur with Chris. Fred Hoffman's book is very helpful. It also include an index of given names, so you can guess at the handwriting and then see what name it most likely actually is. He also has a list of Polish surnames I used to check against last names I needed help with. I found the book "In Their Words" at Polish Art Center http://www.polartcenter.com for a good price. You might also try: a Crash Course online at http://www.pgsa.org/CrashCourseInPolish.pdf that has some good information in it. Good luck! Trish Stumpf Garcia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Smolinski" <csmolinski@blackcatsystems.com> To: <poland-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:50 AM Subject: Re: [POLAND] Interpreting Polish Records found on FHC - LDS films > If you don't already have a copy, please immediately order Fred > Hoffman's excellent book _In Their Words_ Volume 1: Polish. In > addition to a working vocabulary of the Polish word's you're likely > to encounter, it also has real examples of the various BMD records > you will encounter, and step by step translations of them, including > many handwriting examples. > > The other thing that I have found useful is to compare adjacent > documents written by the same priest. You will quickly learn his > particular handwriting style. The same surnames will come up time and > time again in a particular parish, so you can find many other > examples to study and compare to. You'll also discover subtle > variations in the spelling of the surname over time. > > -- > > --- > Chris Smolinski > Black Cat Systems > http://www.blackcatsystems.com > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Bill, I'm really hoping you will post the whole sentence (or even more) and put the rest of us out of our misery... Especially after Maciej's comment "Pozostajemy w Lwowie - we will remain in Lwo~w"!! One can so easily get the message completely back to front :( Good luck, Bron. On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Bill <Billmellsworth@comcast.net> wrote: > Bogdan, > > Thanks for your reply. I now understand that the sender was > saying he was still hopeful that I would visit in the spring > > >

one caveat - Names in Stone has a trap, won't allow you to back button if you want to, to get out of site. David MiPolonia wrote: >>From Cyndislist: > > > > =~=~=~= > > URL: http://www.gravemappers.blogspot.com/ > > TITLE: Grave Mappers > > DESCRIPTION: Grave Mappers is a blog designed to help people create > their own interactive cemetery maps at a new website called NAMES IN STONE. > At Grave Mappers, we give mapping tips and techniques, and share the stories > of people who have mapped cemeteries. We also reach out for help in mapping > cemeteries throughout the US and Canada. We support and encourage mapping > small obscure cemeteries whose records are not readily available and are > deteriorating due to weather and time. Mapping these cemeteries will > preserve their records and make them available for research to anyone on the > internet. > > > > =~=~=~= > > URL: http://www.namesinstone.com/ > > TITLE: Names in Stone > > DESCRIPTION: NAMES IN STONE is an innovative new website that is very > different from other cemetery websites ? it is a growing collection of > interactive cemetery maps that allows visitors to search a listing of > multiple cemeteries, view actual grave locations on a map, and see the > record for a deceased person by clicking on the grave. With unique on-line > mapping tools, anyone can create an interactive cemetery map and add it to > the NAMES IN STONE database. Membership in NAMES IN STONE is free! Members > can contribute by inviting local cemeteries to participate, by using the > on-line mapping tools to add smaller cemeteries, and by sharing photos and > other information with the online community. > > > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

I am looking on behalf of a friend. Her grandfather was Albert KOLLER and he married Ulda HERMANN - we don't know where or when. From correspondence she has an address - Jezewo, Sieroc, Warsaw. Albert and Ulda had the following children: Elfride Koller Elze Koller, and Selina Koller who we believe died before 1939 Zygmunt Koller born 18 Feb 1924 Laszewo, Poland Please could you advise how we start with Polish research. ie How do we find the marriage certificate of Albert and Ulda and their birth certificates. They would hae been born before 1901 (do you have censuses?) Zygmunt was the youngest. I am sorry we have so little information to start us off. Liz www.btinternet.com/~e.newbery OPC for Street, Somerset

I suppose what I am asking may be fairly obvious to researchers who have been involved for years in this art, so excuse my naiveté. I have been researching a Slesin film regarding my Chrapkowski and Borzych families from the 1830's through 1866. What I have been doing is recording all such named people and their spouses, knowing full well that some are not related, others may be distantly related and still others are my ancestors. After I am finished with this film, I would like to scan an earlier film in the same manner and, hopefully, then try and put "like families" together in an attempt to patch together all of my ancestors. That seems to be everyone's task, I would imagine. My complication is simply that the records are in Polish and I, like many of you, do not speak, read or write the language; so, I am getting a bit of a linguistic schooling out of all of this work as well. I find it fascinating, but my inability to understand the language also presents another issue, and that is, if this search is difficult for me, is it equally, or maybe to a lessor degree, difficult for the researhers / transcribers, such as folks working on the Poznan Project, to understand what the record is saying? Recently, and I don't have the example here in front of me, but I found a marriage record on the film at the FHC. Since it fell within the parameters of the Poznan Project, I checked that record with the project to see if my interpretation of what was "hand written by the Priest at the time" was in sync with the translator from the Poznan Project. Well, what I interpreted as a capital "B" turned out, on the Poznan Project to be a "K". What I thought was a "z", was an "r". If it was not for the Poznan project, I would have had the name completely wrong and future research in that direction would have been thwarted. Then, I thought, how do I know that the Translator for the Poznan Project was correct? Should I just accept the fact that since I am ignorant of all language Polish, I should simply say, "I have no other choice. Go with it."? Which, I indeed did do. Then I came across a record of a gentleman whose first name was Felix. It seems to me to be definitely Felix. I have a relative with the name Felican and another named Florian, (I think the family was into alliteration) none of which are on the Poznan Project. So, I am wondering if there is a web site that lists all Polish "Given Names" which one might compare a record to. I began reading the Univ. of Pitts. Polish Grammar site and, while a bit confusing, it does help to understand combinations of letters used in the Polish language. So, if something looks like a "SJCP" you might try a "SZCZ" instead. But to know whether or not a particular name "fits" the language would be a boost; if Poles never used the name Felix for example, then you would know, no matter what it looked like, that Felix was not the name. (I only use Felix here as an example. I do know that at least one Pole used the name Felix because he was my Twice Great Granddad.) Thank you for any assistance you may have in this regard, John

Hi Bill, The word "pozostajemy" is quite often used in ending writing letters. This expression means "remaining yours", or "always with you" or similar phrase in english. If the word was not used in the ending part of a letter, then the meaning will be different, depend on a sentence were it was used. If this is a latter example, you have to write whole sentence, to properly translate. Hope this will help you. Wlodek > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:20:42 -0500 > From: JimPres <jimpres1@mac.com> > Subject: Re: [POLAND] please translate one word for me > To: poland-roots@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <0BC3AA1C-65F4-4690-B888-5FE09BA1551A@mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > Stajemy means we stand up. > not sure about the pozo. > Could be a miss peling. Why are we standing up. > > Jim > > > On Dec 10, 2008, at 5:56 PM, Bill wrote: > > >> I can not make out the meaning of pozostajemy. >> >> Thanks, >> Bill >> ********************************* >> Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com >> ---------------------------------- >> Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the >> list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this >> list: researching our Polish roots. >> ---------------------------------- >> Browse the list's archives here: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots >> Search the list's archives here: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message >> > > > jimpres1@mac.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 08:09:02 +0100 > From: "Bogdan Kajkowski" <bogdanpriv@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [POLAND] please translate one word for me > To: poland-roots@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <104ce1370812102309teb8119ci24a24e6ddb6e5cc6@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Bill, > > How the world was used? It could have a bit different meaning > > It could be: > Pozostajemy w domu - we stay at home - I mean e.g. we have considered > to go out but finnally we deceided to stay (current situation). > Pozostajemy (jestesmy) w kontakcie - we stay in touch > Pozostajemy wierni tradycji - it means that in the past our behavior > was traditional and it is still today - we have not changed it. > > 'We are' is closer to polish 'jestesmy'. 'Jestesmy' is just for > current situation, 'pozostajemy' is in my opinion similar to Present > perfect usuage - we 'were' in the past and we still are. > > Bogdan > > 2008/12/10 Bill <Billmellsworth@comcast.net>: > >> I can not make out the meaning of pozostajemy. >> >> Thanks, >> Bill

Here are three online translation programs you can use: http://translate.google.com/translate_t# http://www.pogonowski.com/Slowniki/pol-ang/pol_ang.php http://www.poltran.com Sometimes I check all three to get a clearer idea. I have found Google to be pretty good. I like it better than PolTran. English to Polish: http://www.pogonowski.com/Slowniki/ang-pol/ang_pol.php Tina Ellis On 12/11/08, Bill <Billmellsworth@comcast.net> wrote: > > Bron > > In the future I won't be so hesitant to post everything. I had > no idea that so many people would be so eager to help. I had hoped that > asking for just one word would get me what I needed to understand the > sentence > > I wish that I was able to do the translations for myself, but > sometimes the full meaning escapes me. I do have a large dictionary but > apparently it isn't large enough.:) > > I have been trying to teach myself a little Polish. So far I'm > not doing too well. :( > > Bill > > > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as > long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: > researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Bill, How the world was used? It could have a bit different meaning It could be: Pozostajemy w domu - we stay at home - I mean e.g. we have considered to go out but finnally we deceided to stay (current situation). Pozostajemy (jestesmy) w kontakcie - we stay in touch Pozostajemy wierni tradycji - it means that in the past our behavior was traditional and it is still today - we have not changed it. 'We are' is closer to polish 'jestesmy'. 'Jestesmy' is just for current situation, 'pozostajemy' is in my opinion similar to Present perfect usuage - we 'were' in the past and we still are. Bogdan 2008/12/10 Bill <Billmellsworth@comcast.net>: > I can not make out the meaning of pozostajemy. > > Thanks, > Bill > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Bron In the future I won't be so hesitant to post everything. I had no idea that so many people would be so eager to help. I had hoped that asking for just one word would get me what I needed to understand the sentence I wish that I was able to do the translations for myself, but sometimes the full meaning escapes me. I do have a large dictionary but apparently it isn't large enough.:) I have been trying to teach myself a little Polish. So far I'm not doing too well. :( Bill

Roman, I thought that if I asked for too much that I might not get an answer; my dictionary had all of the other words in it. "Z~ycza~c jeszcze raz wszystkiego najlepszego I Wam I cal~ej Rodzinie pozostajemy z nadzieja~ na nasze spotkanie w przyszl~ym roku" Thanks for the reply, Bill Subject: Re: [POLAND] please translate one word for me Bill, I haven't seen a correct response to your question yet. What sentence makes sense to you now?

Bogdan, Thanks for your reply. I now understand that the sender was saying he was still hopeful that I would visit in the spring

Bronwyn, I don't know if this will help you, but I have a Zeno in my family tree. I have his birth record listing him as Zeno (born 1928). The father of Zeno was definately from Polish ancestry. The mother was of Polish/possibly Russia-Polish ancestry. Also 2 birth records of Zeno's children, listing him as Zeno. Hope this helps, Ruth Pokorny I also found this on the internet: http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Zeno The boy's name Zeno \z(e)-no\ is pronounced ZE-noh. It is of Greek origin, and its meaning is "gift of Zeus". Zenon was the name of two Greek philosophers. Zeno of Verona (fourth century) was an Italian saint. Zeno has 3 variant forms: Zenon, Zino and Zinon. For more information, see also the related name Xenos. Baby names that sound like Zeno are Xeno, Zane, Zann, Zan and Zuni. Zeno is a very rare male first name and a very popular surname (source: 1990 U.S. Census). Displayed below is the baby name popularity trend for the boy's name Zeno. Compare Zeno with related baby names. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bronwyn Klimach" <bronklimach@gmail.com> To: <poland-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 5:11 AM Subject: Re: [POLAND] FYI- PolishOrigins? > Hi, > Do you know if Zenon intends for locations given to be the current Polish > names, pre-WWII names, or both? > http://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?t=152 > I have failed miserably in my registration attempts on this site - > probably > because I cannot tell whether an O is a letter or number ... > Kind regards, > Bronwyn. > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 6:14 AM, MiPolonia <cjensen@mipolonia.net> wrote: > >> URL: http://places.polishorigins.com >> >> TITLE: PolishOrigins? Places Database >> >> DESCRIPTION: Search for people whose forefathers came from the same >> villages, towns or cities as your ancestors. Add your own surnames and >> places of interest, by registering for free or editing your profile, to >> let >> others find you and enrich your mutual experience. >> >> >> >> > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as > long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: > researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

>From Cyndislist: =~=~=~= URL: http://www.gravemappers.blogspot.com/ TITLE: Grave Mappers DESCRIPTION: Grave Mappers is a blog designed to help people create their own interactive cemetery maps at a new website called NAMES IN STONE. At Grave Mappers, we give mapping tips and techniques, and share the stories of people who have mapped cemeteries. We also reach out for help in mapping cemeteries throughout the US and Canada. We support and encourage mapping small obscure cemeteries whose records are not readily available and are deteriorating due to weather and time. Mapping these cemeteries will preserve their records and make them available for research to anyone on the internet. =~=~=~= URL: http://www.namesinstone.com/ TITLE: Names in Stone DESCRIPTION: NAMES IN STONE is an innovative new website that is very different from other cemetery websites ? it is a growing collection of interactive cemetery maps that allows visitors to search a listing of multiple cemeteries, view actual grave locations on a map, and see the record for a deceased person by clicking on the grave. With unique on-line mapping tools, anyone can create an interactive cemetery map and add it to the NAMES IN STONE database. Membership in NAMES IN STONE is free! Members can contribute by inviting local cemeteries to participate, by using the on-line mapping tools to add smaller cemeteries, and by sharing photos and other information with the online community.

Bill, I haven't seen a correct response to your question yet. What sentence makes sense to you now? By the way, when you ask for a translation, it's always good form to provide the context within which that word is used. Suppose I asked for the translation of the word "bear" and didn't know whether it was a noun or verb. Roman Bill wrote: > Thank you all for the answers. The sentence now makes sense to me. > > Bill > > > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Beautiful explanation, Fred. Let's polka in northcentral Texas! (Gotta get there first.) Patty -----Original Message----- From: poland-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:poland-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Fred Hoffman Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 10:12 AM To: poland-roots@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [POLAND] Name Hi, Debbie Greenlee wrote: > Question from a non-Polish speaking Pole. > I thought the letter "I" in Polish was pronounced in English as ee. > Therefore I thought Ste;pniak (Ste~pniak) was pronounced "STEMP > neeyak" > or did I miss a Polish pronunciation rule? Good question! I wish I could give you a simple answer, but it's a little complicated -- unless you grow up speaking Polish. Then it's the most obvious thing in the world. In Polish, the vowel I serves a double purpose. When it's a true vowel, it is pronounced roughly "ee." But it also serves to indicate palatalization of a preceding consonant. Palatalization is a kind of softening of a consonant, when more of the tongue arches up close to the hard palate. It's not a linguistic feature that's terribly prominent in English, but it's very important in the Slavic languages, including Polish. (We have it in English, too, however. It explains, for instance, why most people turn "Got you!" into "Gotcha!" The influence of the following Y sound modifies the T into its palatalized counterpart, which we spell CH.) In the name STEPNIAK, the I is not really pronounced as a distinct E sound, because there's already a vowel in that second syllable, the A. In that position, the I is palatalizing the preceding N. So instead of "STEMP-nee-yock," three syllables with a distinct "ee" sound, it's more like "STEMP-n'yock," just two syllables, with a slight Y sound after the N. The I is not pronounced as "ee," it only serves to soften the N -- which, in practical terms, comes down to producing a kind of Y sound after the N, like what we hear in "onion." With some consonants, the distinction is pretty subtle. There's not a huge difference between palatalized B and plain B. If you say the verbs _bic~_ (to beat) and _byc~_ (to be), the vowel is different, but the B itself doesn't seem to change a whole lot. With some other consonants, the change is more obvious. Thus a palatalized T turns into CI, a D becomes DZI, and so on. Palatalization is why the name of the city Poznan~ doesn't sound like "POZE-nahn," but "POZE-nine." The palatalization of the final N not only softens it, but also affects the pronunciation of the A. In that case, the palatalization is indicated with an accent over the N. But notice, as soon as you add an ending with a vowel, the -I- creeps in there: Poznania, Poznaniu. With the letters C~, N~, S~, and Z~, the accent is there only if the palatalized letter is not followed by a vowel. As soon as vowel enters the mix, the accent disappears and is replaced by I. Sometimes the I serves both purposes at once. Thus in the place name Limanowa, the I not only indicates a palatalized L, it also gives that syllable its vowel: "lee-mah-NO-vah." Incidentally, here is where the distinction between slash-L and plain L comes in. Slash-L can never be followed by I in native Polish words because Poles don't combine the "w" sound of slash-L with the "ee" sound of the vowel I. You can have L~Y together and you can have LI together, but you can never have L~I or LY. It's just one of the characteristics of the language. (Whereas in English, we have no trouble at all following the "w" sound with an "ee," as in our word "we," or following L with a short I, as in "lid." But we're not Poles!) I'm kind of hesitant to go into this in much detail, because it can get confusing very fast. I may already have left you asking "What on earth is he talking about?" But as a basic rule of thumb, when you see the vowel I followed by a consonant, pronounce it as "ee." When you see it followed by a vowel, ditch the "ee" and make it a slight "y" sound. So if you see a name such as STE~PNIK, it's "STEMP-neek." But STE~PNIAK is "STEMP-n'yock." And that little Y sound is pretty faint -- you may not even hear it unless you're listening for it. It's there, however, and it has to be there to pronounce the words correctly. You might find the Pitt Polish language course's explanations useful: http://polish.slavic.pitt.edu/firstyear/sounds.pdf Then again, maybe not. It's awfully hard to truly "get" this unless you listen to native Poles speak the language. After a while you start to catch on to the rhythms and sound combinations. At that point, you'll say "Of course that's how it is." if you don't have a chance to hear a whole lot of Polish spoken (as, for instance, in northcentral Texas), it's going to have to be one of those things you accept on faith. If anybody can explain this more clearly, by all means, speak up! Fred ********************************* Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at Poland-Roots-admin@rootsweb.com ---------------------------------- Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our Polish roots. ---------------------------------- Browse the list's archives here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots Search the list's archives here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POLAND-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message