Debbie, Thanks for the reply with some good tips that I haven't yet tried. I'll check into those name distribution maps again to see if I can get some additional insight. Maybe I can also get enough information to send letters to a few parishes. One problem is that my ancestors came from a part of former Poland (eastern Galicia) that is now a part of Ukraine. As various armies marched back and forth through the region (we all know that story), my ancestors progressively moved west, the final move for some being Operation Vistula. I know where some of them ended up, but I don't know where exactly they started nor where they were baptized. Some ended up in Wrocl~aw, and there is evidence that they were in L'wow prior to that. I'm hoping to locate documents related to my g-grandmothers U.S. visa application made in Warsaw about 1927, which could help to clear up some of the mystery. In the meantime, if I could just find some descendants in Poland..... I'm currently trying some Google searches and Facebook to see what I can dredge up. Jim DeGraff Houston, TX ----- Original Message ----- From: "Debbie Greenlee" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [POLAND] (Poland) access to polish phone book - Other Options? > Jim, > > A suggestion I took from the book _Polish Roots_ by Rosemary Chorzempa > is to write to the parish priest (where your ancestor was baptized), > in Polish, asking if there is anyone in his parish with that surname. > You can include a separate letter for the priest to give those people. > Make sure to ask the priest how you can make a donation to the > parish. This all presumes you know the parish your ancestors lived in. > > Several Polish genealogical societies have Polish telephone books and > charge a small fee to look-up names. The problem with Polish telephone > books is that they include a whole wojewo~dztwo separated by villages > and cities. This means if a person doesn't know the village in which > his ancestor was born (could be different than the parish village) it > could take over an hour to go through every village looking for a > particular surname. If a society charges $5.00 to do one look-up, it's > a bargain. Polish Genealogical Society of America in Chicago and the > Polish Genealogical Society of Connecticut and the Northeast both do > look-ups in Polish telephone books. > > I used to do this but ended up sending most of my books to the PGSA. > > Something else you can check is the 2002 edition of Professor Rymut's > data base, titled, "Dictionary of Surnames in Current Use in Poland at > the Beginning of the 21st Century". I think this is online but if not > you can buy it from the PGSA. OR you can check the 1990 edition which > is not as specific as the 2002 version. Also the 1990 edition, which > is online, is best viewed on Internet Explorer. Rymut died a few years > ago and I don't think the site has been upgraded to perform as well on > the newer browsers. > > So, what do you learn from using the above mentioned data bases? You > find out how many people with a particular surname lived in a > particular old wojewo~dztwo (1990 edition) or powiat (2002 edition). > If you have a common name forget the whole thing. However, if you have > an uncommon name then this database can be very helpful. > Example. I searched (1990 edition) on the name Tomalski and found > there were 774 people in Poland with that surname in 1990. In the old > woj. of Bydgoszcz there were 8. (I happen to know three of them and > those three don't know the other 5.) Of course, 774 is too large a > number to do anything with. But, if I knew that "my" Tomalskis lived > in the old woj. of Bial~ystok, then I might try going further with this. > > If you know your ancestor's village (won't work with a city) you can > try something else. You can send a letter to the "family of _____ " > in that village and see what happens. This letter needs to be written > carefully so that the recipient doesn't think this is a scheme from > America. It has to be in Polish and you have to state that you're only > interested in locating family and nothing else (no land grabbing > intentions). It helps to include a family tree (the diagram) and > perhaps copies of old photos of people who came from that village. You > have to make a connection. Include a self-addressed envelope (no > stamps) as well. Then you wait. If there are several families in the > village with your surname, hopefully your letter will get passed > around. You could also ask that the recipient do just that. > > Need a postal code? I happen to have a data base that lists them. It > works best for villages though and not cities. > > That's all I got! > > Debbie > > > Jim DeGraff wrote: >> The recent discussion about using online Polish telephone directories to >> locate family in Poland begs a more general question. If one knows the >> name >> of a family member, say a male who's name did not change upon marriage, >> and >> an approximate location, what options are available for tracking down >> such a >> person assuming they are still living in Poland? What have other list >> members tried that works? >> >> Jim DeGraff >> Houston, TX >> >> > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > [email protected] > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as > long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: > researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Irene, A rather unusual request on this board - you can find Galicia here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia_%28Spain%29 Kind regards, Bronwyn. On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 5:39 PM, Irene Landenberger <[email protected]> wrote: > > Would someone please explain what area consists of Galicia? Irene >

From: Bill Rutkowski Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 7:00 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Subject: Re: [POLAND] Poland-Germany 1939 Demarcation Line I'm not 100% sure but I believe the German-Russian demarcation line was the same line that had been in effect from 1792 until 1918 when Poland had a rebirth as a nation. The Germans took the former Prussian and Austrian territories and the Russian took their former territory. If I am right than any map between 1792 - 1918 will give the demarcation line that went into effect September 17, 1939 Bill Rutkowski

Hi Bill: In my first response on this thread, I should have corrected the original subject i.e. there was an internationally-recognized border between Poland and Germany from 1923 to 1939 and between Poland and Soviet Russia as a result of the Soviet-Polish Was and eventual ratification by the League of Nations in 1923. This thread should be entitled Nazi-Soviet demarcation line as it resulted from the Nazi-Soviet Pact of August 22/23, 1939 and again erased Poland as a country after the joint September 1939 campaign by Germany and the Soviet Union against Poland in September 1939. The former Eastern Galicia (all of Galicia, or Austrian Poland, had been part Poland to this time) fell under Soviet control so your suggestion here is not correct. Btw, there was great debate about Poland's borders in the various treaties that ended the First World War. The British (not really friendly to Poland at this particular time) argued for a Curzon Line as the boundary of newly created Eastern Poland, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curzon_Line You can see on this "line" had 2 versions, one that included Lwow in Poland and one that did not. It was proposed by the British diplomat Lord Curzon in 1919-20 but Polish victory in the Polish Soviet War of 1919-20 negated it. Nonetheless, this Curzon line approximates a very close facsimile to the Nazi-Soviet demarcation line of 1939 and I am sure was used by both parties to justify their ill-gotten gains. Just to reiterate, this thread is better described as Nazi-Soviet demarcation line of Poland. Lindy Kasperski www.lindykasperski.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill Rutkowski Sent: November-23-10 3:00 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [POLAND] Fw: Subject: Re: Poland-Germany 1939 Demarcation Line From: Bill Rutkowski Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 7:00 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Subject: Re: [POLAND] Poland-Germany 1939 Demarcation Line I'm not 100% sure but I believe the German-Russian demarcation line was the same line that had been in effect from 1792 until 1918 when Poland had a rebirth as a nation. The Germans took the former Prussian and Austrian territories and the Russian took their former territory. If I am right than any map between 1792 - 1918 will give the demarcation line that went into effect September 17, 1939 Bill Rutkowski ********************************* Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at [email protected] ---------------------------------- Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our Polish roots. ---------------------------------- Browse the list's archives here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots Search the list's archives here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Bronwyn Klimach wrote: > A rather unusual request on this board - you can find Galicia here: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia_%28Spain%29 There's also the Austrian-partition of Poland, also known as Galicia. Matthew Bielawa has a site devoted to Eastern Galicia that describes what/where Galicia was: http://www.halgal.com/galicia.html -Marie

Would someone please explain what area consists of Galicia? Irene

Hi, Debbie Greenlee wrote: > Here's the link to Professor Kazimerz Rymut's 1990 Surname Database: > > http://www.herby.com.pl/ That will get you there, and it's shorter and easier to remember than the direct link to that specific page. Some may find the the direct link helpful: http://www.herby.com.pl/indexslo.html Put the name you're looking for in the box near the top, under where it says "Prosze wprowadzic nazwisko," then click on "Szukaj." Note also that sometimes you get a better range of matches if you use the wild cards ? (for any one letter) or * (for any number of letters). That helps you get past the need for inputting Polish letters with diacritical marks, for instance. If you search for WISNIEWSKI, you'll be baffled because it brings up only 371 Poles by that name -- and here you thought it was a common name. But if you search for WI?NIEWSKI, you'll get the real story: 104,418 who spelled it with an accent over the first S. That's the standard spelling; WISNIEWSKI with plain S is comparatively rare. You can see how it makes a big difference! So any time you need to search and aren't sure about the exact spelling, or have trouble inputting the Polish characters, use those wild cards ? and * to save yourself trouble! Fred Hoffman

Dear Researchers, The long Thanksgiving holiday is a perfect time to discuss family history. If you are going to a family gathering, take along some photos to start a discussion. Take some of your unidentified photos too, and see if any family members can help. You can also do this via email or Facebook if you have family across the country. I found that distant cousins are more receptive to phone calls at this time of year. Offer to trade information or family group sheets. I hope you have a bountiful Thanksgiving! Ceil PARI Polonica Americana Research Institute www.polishmission.com

Here's the link to Professor Kazimerz Rymut's 1990 Surname Database: http://www.herby.com.pl/ Debbie Debbie Greenlee wrote: . . . > Something else you can check is the 2002 edition of Professor Rymut's > data base, titled, "Dictionary of Surnames in Current Use in Poland at > the Beginning of the 21st Century". I think this is online but if not > you can buy it from the PGSA. OR you can check the 1990 edition which > is not as specific as the 2002 version. Also the 1990 edition, which > is online, is best viewed on Internet Explorer. Rymut died a few years > ago and I don't think the site has been upgraded to perform as well on > the newer browsers. > > So, what do you learn from using the above mentioned data bases? You > find out how many people with a particular surname lived in a > particular old wojewo~dztwo (1990 edition) or powiat (2002 edition). > If you have a common name forget the whole thing. However, if you have > an uncommon name then this database can be very helpful. > Example. I searched (1990 edition) on the name Tomalski and found > there were 774 people in Poland with that surname in 1990. In the old > woj. of Bydgoszcz there were 8. (I happen to know three of them and > those three don't know the other 5.) Of course, 774 is too large a > number to do anything with. But, if I knew that "my" Tomalskis lived > in the old woj. of Bial~ystok, then I might try going further with this. >

Jim, A suggestion I took from the book _Polish Roots_ by Rosemary Chorzempa is to write to the parish priest (where your ancestor was baptized), in Polish, asking if there is anyone in his parish with that surname. You can include a separate letter for the priest to give those people. Make sure to ask the priest how you can make a donation to the parish. This all presumes you know the parish your ancestors lived in. Several Polish genealogical societies have Polish telephone books and charge a small fee to look-up names. The problem with Polish telephone books is that they include a whole wojewo~dztwo separated by villages and cities. This means if a person doesn't know the village in which his ancestor was born (could be different than the parish village) it could take over an hour to go through every village looking for a particular surname. If a society charges $5.00 to do one look-up, it's a bargain. Polish Genealogical Society of America in Chicago and the Polish Genealogical Society of Connecticut and the Northeast both do look-ups in Polish telephone books. I used to do this but ended up sending most of my books to the PGSA. Something else you can check is the 2002 edition of Professor Rymut's data base, titled, "Dictionary of Surnames in Current Use in Poland at the Beginning of the 21st Century". I think this is online but if not you can buy it from the PGSA. OR you can check the 1990 edition which is not as specific as the 2002 version. Also the 1990 edition, which is online, is best viewed on Internet Explorer. Rymut died a few years ago and I don't think the site has been upgraded to perform as well on the newer browsers. So, what do you learn from using the above mentioned data bases? You find out how many people with a particular surname lived in a particular old wojewo~dztwo (1990 edition) or powiat (2002 edition). If you have a common name forget the whole thing. However, if you have an uncommon name then this database can be very helpful. Example. I searched (1990 edition) on the name Tomalski and found there were 774 people in Poland with that surname in 1990. In the old woj. of Bydgoszcz there were 8. (I happen to know three of them and those three don't know the other 5.) Of course, 774 is too large a number to do anything with. But, if I knew that "my" Tomalskis lived in the old woj. of Bial~ystok, then I might try going further with this. If you know your ancestor's village (won't work with a city) you can try something else. You can send a letter to the "family of _____ " in that village and see what happens. This letter needs to be written carefully so that the recipient doesn't think this is a scheme from America. It has to be in Polish and you have to state that you're only interested in locating family and nothing else (no land grabbing intentions). It helps to include a family tree (the diagram) and perhaps copies of old photos of people who came from that village. You have to make a connection. Include a self-addressed envelope (no stamps) as well. Then you wait. If there are several families in the village with your surname, hopefully your letter will get passed around. You could also ask that the recipient do just that. Need a postal code? I happen to have a data base that lists them. It works best for villages though and not cities. That's all I got! Debbie Jim DeGraff wrote: > The recent discussion about using online Polish telephone directories to > locate family in Poland begs a more general question. If one knows the name > of a family member, say a male who's name did not change upon marriage, and > an approximate location, what options are available for tracking down such a > person assuming they are still living in Poland? What have other list > members tried that works? > > Jim DeGraff > Houston, TX > >

The recent discussion about using online Polish telephone directories to locate family in Poland begs a more general question. If one knows the name of a family member, say a male who's name did not change upon marriage, and an approximate location, what options are available for tracking down such a person assuming they are still living in Poland? What have other list members tried that works? Jim DeGraff Houston, TX

Say Debbie: I bought that index and it is very, very, helpful. Great stuff... Lindy -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Debbie Greenlee Sent: November-18-10 3:33 PM To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [POLAND] Poland-Germany 1939 Demarcation Line Lindy, I second your "ad" for Genealogy Unlimited/Interlink. I've been buying (still do) maps from them since before GU retired and sold to Interlink. FYI I was the impetus behind Interlink publishing the Index for the _Polska Atlas Drogowy_ numerous years ago which listed the old wojewo~dztwo of all the villages. I still think that's the best information to have when trying to locate ancestral villages. Debbie Lindy Kasperski wrote: > Thx for the compliment. Bill, I am not in the same league as Debbie!! > > This is a very great link and if I am not mistaken, you can now acquire the > printed maps themselves here: http://www.genealogyunlimited.com/poland.html > > When I first got involved in the mid-1990s, Genealogy Unlimited (Utah) had > the printed collection of the 1:200,000 scale maps. They also had 1:50,000 > scale maps (i.e. 8 separate maps for each of the 1:200,000 grid). Interlink > Bookshop (David Obee, Victoria, B.C. Canada) acquired this collection about > 10 years ago as I recall. I bought my various 1:200,000 scale maps from > Interlink (the ones on here on the Budapest site, > http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm). I even have a > couple of the 1:50,000 maps and these are truly amazing. > > But it now appears Interlink is marketing these 1:100,000 scale maps that > you have alluded to. I stand to be corrected; however, this is just great > and a bonus for those who want the actual printed map itself!! > > Lindy > www.lindykasperski.com > > P.S. I acquired a number of the paper maps from Interlink over the years and > have a complete set covering Galicia (8 in all). One of our pet cats got > into my map storage container last month and partially shredded just one > map, unluckily the one of my Kasperski ancestral village, > Buczacz/Trybuchowce. I will be contacting Interlink if they still have that > (Kolomyja map) map in stock. But this new 1:100,000 set may make this not > necessary. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sheleski, William J > Sent: November-18-10 12:12 PM > To: '[email protected]' > Subject: [POLAND] Poland-Germany 1939 Demarcation Line > > As usual, both Debbie and Lindy have given excellent advice on where to > look. Both of these people are precious resources who are unsparing in > sharing their vast knowledge with the rest of us. > > One site I bumbled across a while back is the following: > > http://igrek.amzp.pl/mapindex.php?cat=WIG100 > > It has beautifully detailed 1:100,000 scale Polish Military Maps from 1937. > Depending on the areas of interest, other scales and years are also be > available. > > I live in the Washington DC area and know that the U.S. Library of Congress > does have an incredible map collection. The problem is determining which > ones you want from (literally) thousands of others. There are some finding > aids, but you'd probably have to visit Washington and spend some time here > to pick out what you need. > > Bill Sheleski > ********************************* Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at [email protected] ---------------------------------- Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our Polish roots. ---------------------------------- Browse the list's archives here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots Search the list's archives here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Rivka, I would suggest getting in touch with the German National Library in Berlin (Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin) - there must be detailed German maps from 1940 showing exactly where the border was. Maps before 1940 are in East Berlin, modern maps are in West Berlin - so it's not quite clear if you want a map from exactly 1940 which place to go to. Luckily, both map departments now have the same e-mail address: [email protected] Their web-page is http://staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/kartenabteilung/start.html ---- I know it isn't as detailed as what you are looking for, but the original map of the partition line, with Molotow's signature, is on line at http://vip.latnet.lv/lpra/mol_rib_vaciski.htm From the text, part of the demarcation line followed exactly the border of Lublin voivodship. Paul Rakow [email protected] ------ Rivka Schirman <[email protected]> wrote: > > For my PhD disseration I am looking for a detailed map of the partition of Poland between the USSR and Nazi Germany in September 1939. By detailed I mean showing a maximum of specific towns and villages on both sides of the border, not just a general line. ANy one know where I can find such a map ? > > Tks in advance, > > Rivka Schirman n?e Moscisker > Paris, France >

Hi, Lindy Kasperski wrote: > Regarding hair and/or lack therof; regrettably, previously available video > to the Taras Bulba (1962 version) on Youtube is now unavailable. Even > some > more obscure non-English language entries are no longer there. I raise > this > only because of a great scene (historical inaccuracy aside) when the > Cossacks cut off their scalp-locks. The scene is not on this clip, but > Fred, note the Cossack scalp-lock on Yul Brynner: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_IE89RB_oc > > Very distinguished!!! Debbie Greenlee wrote: > Fred! > It could be you! No, I'm more like Yul in "The King and I." (Yeah, right.) He does look good, but I don't think I could quite carry that off, myself. This is not, however, the first time someone said I reminded them of a famous actor. A nanny who worked for us (briefly!) once said I reminded her of Jack Albertson as the grandfather in "Willie Wonka." Given a choice, I'd rather look like Yul! In any case, we've wandered rather far afield here. Marie's going to have to crack the whip if we don't get back on topic. Like Groucho, she'd horsewhip us if she had a horse. Or perhaps a horsetail, or a severed scalp-lock. Fred Hoffman

Barbara, My goodness. I had no idea my query would cause such a frenzy of head shaving and shampooing! Dr. Morewitz's article was very interesting in providing such a long history of plica, even referencing Shakespeare's plays. Anyway, I hope my poor gggrandfather didn't suffer too much, although reading the symtoms, he probably did. Thank you for providing that information. Karen > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 06:46:31 -0800 (PST) > From: Barbara Proko <[email protected]> > Subject: [POLAND] plica polonica (koltun) as cause of death > To: Poland Roots <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > http://www.nuvoforheadlice.com/Plica.htm > > Interesting, lengthy overview of plica polonica and its manifestation over > the > centuries in different countries. > > Barbara Proko > researching numerous ancestral lines in the old Lida powiat > > >

@@@ On 11/19/2010 2:23 AM, Bronwyn Klimach wrote: > Have you seen this? :)) > * > http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/nottingham/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_9172000/9172619.stm > * > > ### below > My greatgrandfather died of erysipelas and gangrene of his face. People > died of things like that pretty routinely before antibiotics. In the case > of Polish plaits, not being able to even see the infection would put off > treatment for way too long and there probably wasn't much treatment > available even then. > ### I thought of you without even knowing about the ery... and gangrene. > How do you seem to get so much information/TMI while I have almost none of > this sort of thing - apart from gr-uncle who was injured in WWI and went on > to die of nasty consequences? @@@ When I was relatively new at genealogy, this Polish greatgrandfather's death certificate was the first death certificate I had ever ordered. In those days, I expected to get fairly normal causes of death and was completely grossed out when I saw and looked up his cause of death. It was quite awhile before I ordered another death cert! =-O > I hope the scarey photo of a healty Ranita has not given you nightmares etc. @@@ Not at all. It was a fun picture. > Bron. > > > On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 5:04 AM, Michele<[email protected]> wrote: > >> I hadn't missed it. I read about it and was quite horrified! >> Ickblaghhhhyuksheesh!>:o >> >> On 11/18/2010 4:09 PM, Bronwyn Klimach wrote: >>> Michele, >>> I could not bear the thought of your having possibly missed this one! >>> Bron. >>> >>> On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Fred Hoffman<[email protected]> >> wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Karen Carpenter wrote: >>>> >>>>> I hope this isn't a repeat question. (I'm new to the list.) My >>>>> gggrandfather's death record lists his cause of death as koltuny which >>>>> translates to tangles. What does that mean? >>>> The reference books tell you _koltun_ means "trichoma" or "plica >> polonica," >>>> an illness connected with matted hair. I didn't know till just now that >>>> English has a term for it: "Polish plait." See here: >>>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_plait >>>> >>>> I found this by going to the Polish Wikipedia site and searching for >>>> _koltun_ (with a slash through the L). Here's the Polish page: >>>> >>>> http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ko%C5%82tun >>>> >>>> At the left are links to similar pages on the Wikipedia sites for other >>>> languages, one of which is English. And that led me to the article on >>>> "Polish plait." >>>> >>>> This is always worth trying if you're looking for an unfamiliar term. >> The >>>> Polish Wikipedia may not have anything on it; or if it does, there may >> be >>>> no >>>> corresponding page in English, or the connection between the two may be >>>> erroneous. Also, you have to get the Polish spelling of the word right, >>>> including the diacritical marks. But a search of the Polish Wikipedia >> can >>>> prove very helpful. Sometimes, a Google search will lead you to a Polish >>>> Wikipedia page, and that may enable you to bypass the need for inputting >>>> Polish characters with diacriticals. >>>> >>>> I must admit, I've never quite understood how a hairstyle or even a >> disease >>>> of the hair could be fatal. But I guess anything that allows >> inflammation >>>> or >>>> infection can lead to death. Often, these causes of death are not very >>>> scientific. The person filling out the record frequently had no medical >>>> training. He just wrote down whatever was the most prominent symptom, >> even >>>> if it was only indirectly related to the cause of death -- or, in some >>>> cases, had nothing to do with the death. But if an otherwise >>>> healthy-looking >>>> person died, and the only thing you could find wrong was a massive >> tangle >>>> of >>>> hair with infection, I guess _koltun_ or the Latin word, _plica_, could >>>> seem >>>> like the right thing to record. I do know from my experience, you run >> into >>>> _koltun_ and _plica_ as causes of death far more often than you'd >> expect. >>>> Anyway, I hope that clarifies things for you! >>>> >>>> Fred Hoffman >>>> Co-Author, _In Their Words ... Vol. 1: Polish_ >>>> www.fredhoff.com >>> http://www.nuvoforheadlice.com/Plica.htm >>> >>> Interesting, lengthy overview of plica polonica and its manifestation >> over >>> the >>> centuries in different countries. >>> >>> Barbara Proko > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at [email protected] > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Have you seen this? :)) * http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/nottingham/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_9172000/9172619.stm * ### below My greatgrandfather died of erysipelas and gangrene of his face. People died of things like that pretty routinely before antibiotics. In the case of Polish plaits, not being able to even see the infection would put off treatment for way too long and there probably wasn't much treatment available even then. ### I thought of you without even knowing about the ery... and gangrene. How do you seem to get so much information/TMI while I have almost none of this sort of thing - apart from gr-uncle who was injured in WWI and went on to die of nasty consequences? I hope the scarey photo of a healty Ranita has not given you nightmares etc. Bron. On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 5:04 AM, Michele <[email protected]> wrote: > I hadn't missed it. I read about it and was quite horrified! > Ickblaghhhhyuksheesh! >:o > > On 11/18/2010 4:09 PM, Bronwyn Klimach wrote: > > Michele, > > I could not bear the thought of your having possibly missed this one! > > Bron. > > > > On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Fred Hoffman<[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> Karen Carpenter wrote: > >> > >>> I hope this isn't a repeat question. (I'm new to the list.) My > >>> gggrandfather's death record lists his cause of death as koltuny which > >>> translates to tangles. What does that mean? > >> The reference books tell you _koltun_ means "trichoma" or "plica > polonica," > >> an illness connected with matted hair. I didn't know till just now that > >> English has a term for it: "Polish plait." See here: > >> > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_plait > >> > >> I found this by going to the Polish Wikipedia site and searching for > >> _koltun_ (with a slash through the L). Here's the Polish page: > >> > >> http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ko%C5%82tun > >> > >> At the left are links to similar pages on the Wikipedia sites for other > >> languages, one of which is English. And that led me to the article on > >> "Polish plait." > >> > >> This is always worth trying if you're looking for an unfamiliar term. > The > >> Polish Wikipedia may not have anything on it; or if it does, there may > be > >> no > >> corresponding page in English, or the connection between the two may be > >> erroneous. Also, you have to get the Polish spelling of the word right, > >> including the diacritical marks. But a search of the Polish Wikipedia > can > >> prove very helpful. Sometimes, a Google search will lead you to a Polish > >> Wikipedia page, and that may enable you to bypass the need for inputting > >> Polish characters with diacriticals. > >> > >> I must admit, I've never quite understood how a hairstyle or even a > disease > >> of the hair could be fatal. But I guess anything that allows > inflammation > >> or > >> infection can lead to death. Often, these causes of death are not very > >> scientific. The person filling out the record frequently had no medical > >> training. He just wrote down whatever was the most prominent symptom, > even > >> if it was only indirectly related to the cause of death -- or, in some > >> cases, had nothing to do with the death. But if an otherwise > >> healthy-looking > >> person died, and the only thing you could find wrong was a massive > tangle > >> of > >> hair with infection, I guess _koltun_ or the Latin word, _plica_, could > >> seem > >> like the right thing to record. I do know from my experience, you run > into > >> _koltun_ and _plica_ as causes of death far more often than you'd > expect. > >> > >> Anyway, I hope that clarifies things for you! > >> > >> Fred Hoffman > >> Co-Author, _In Their Words ... Vol. 1: Polish_ > >> www.fredhoff.com > > > > http://www.nuvoforheadlice.com/Plica.htm > > > > Interesting, lengthy overview of plica polonica and its manifestation > over > > the > > centuries in different countries. > > > > Barbara Proko >

Michele, I could not bear the thought of your having possibly missed this one! Bron. On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Fred Hoffman <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, > > Karen Carpenter wrote: > > > I hope this isn't a repeat question. (I'm new to the list.) My > > gggrandfather's death record lists his cause of death as koltuny which > > translates to tangles. What does that mean? > > The reference books tell you _koltun_ means "trichoma" or "plica polonica," > an illness connected with matted hair. I didn't know till just now that > English has a term for it: "Polish plait." See here: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_plait > > I found this by going to the Polish Wikipedia site and searching for > _koltun_ (with a slash through the L). Here's the Polish page: > > http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ko%C5%82tun > > At the left are links to similar pages on the Wikipedia sites for other > languages, one of which is English. And that led me to the article on > "Polish plait." > > This is always worth trying if you're looking for an unfamiliar term. The > Polish Wikipedia may not have anything on it; or if it does, there may be > no > corresponding page in English, or the connection between the two may be > erroneous. Also, you have to get the Polish spelling of the word right, > including the diacritical marks. But a search of the Polish Wikipedia can > prove very helpful. Sometimes, a Google search will lead you to a Polish > Wikipedia page, and that may enable you to bypass the need for inputting > Polish characters with diacriticals. > > I must admit, I've never quite understood how a hairstyle or even a disease > of the hair could be fatal. But I guess anything that allows inflammation > or > infection can lead to death. Often, these causes of death are not very > scientific. The person filling out the record frequently had no medical > training. He just wrote down whatever was the most prominent symptom, even > if it was only indirectly related to the cause of death -- or, in some > cases, had nothing to do with the death. But if an otherwise > healthy-looking > person died, and the only thing you could find wrong was a massive tangle > of > hair with infection, I guess _koltun_ or the Latin word, _plica_, could > seem > like the right thing to record. I do know from my experience, you run into > _koltun_ and _plica_ as causes of death far more often than you'd expect. > > Anyway, I hope that clarifies things for you! > > Fred Hoffman > Co-Author, _In Their Words ... Vol. 1: Polish_ > www.fredhoff.com http://www.nuvoforheadlice.com/Plica.htm Interesting, lengthy overview of plica polonica and its manifestation over the centuries in different countries. Barbara Proko

I hadn't missed it. I read about it and was quite horrified! Ickblaghhhhyuksheesh! >:o On 11/18/2010 4:09 PM, Bronwyn Klimach wrote: > Michele, > I could not bear the thought of your having possibly missed this one! > Bron. > > On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Fred Hoffman<[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Karen Carpenter wrote: >> >>> I hope this isn't a repeat question. (I'm new to the list.) My >>> gggrandfather's death record lists his cause of death as koltuny which >>> translates to tangles. What does that mean? >> The reference books tell you _koltun_ means "trichoma" or "plica polonica," >> an illness connected with matted hair. I didn't know till just now that >> English has a term for it: "Polish plait." See here: >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_plait >> >> I found this by going to the Polish Wikipedia site and searching for >> _koltun_ (with a slash through the L). Here's the Polish page: >> >> http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ko%C5%82tun >> >> At the left are links to similar pages on the Wikipedia sites for other >> languages, one of which is English. And that led me to the article on >> "Polish plait." >> >> This is always worth trying if you're looking for an unfamiliar term. The >> Polish Wikipedia may not have anything on it; or if it does, there may be >> no >> corresponding page in English, or the connection between the two may be >> erroneous. Also, you have to get the Polish spelling of the word right, >> including the diacritical marks. But a search of the Polish Wikipedia can >> prove very helpful. Sometimes, a Google search will lead you to a Polish >> Wikipedia page, and that may enable you to bypass the need for inputting >> Polish characters with diacriticals. >> >> I must admit, I've never quite understood how a hairstyle or even a disease >> of the hair could be fatal. But I guess anything that allows inflammation >> or >> infection can lead to death. Often, these causes of death are not very >> scientific. The person filling out the record frequently had no medical >> training. He just wrote down whatever was the most prominent symptom, even >> if it was only indirectly related to the cause of death -- or, in some >> cases, had nothing to do with the death. But if an otherwise >> healthy-looking >> person died, and the only thing you could find wrong was a massive tangle >> of >> hair with infection, I guess _koltun_ or the Latin word, _plica_, could >> seem >> like the right thing to record. I do know from my experience, you run into >> _koltun_ and _plica_ as causes of death far more often than you'd expect. >> >> Anyway, I hope that clarifies things for you! >> >> Fred Hoffman >> Co-Author, _In Their Words ... Vol. 1: Polish_ >> www.fredhoff.com > > http://www.nuvoforheadlice.com/Plica.htm > > Interesting, lengthy overview of plica polonica and its manifestation over > the > centuries in different countries. > > Barbara Proko > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at [email protected] > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Good one, Barbara! I think we're all itching a bit more now ! And to think that I elected not to shampoo this morning for lack of time ! ! Sandy