I wonder if Myrithin is a modern typo as it is a name for an arthritis drug. Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: "JD" <[email protected]> To: "Paul Rakow" <[email protected]> Cc: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 8:07 AM Subject: [POLAND] POLAND] Myrithin ? > Paul, Thanks for your suggestion that Myrithin may be Mycielin. > I considered the fact that Myrithin may actually be Mycielin but the > document at Ancestry.com is typed and very distinct.. > I wonder if Myrithin is an older German name for Mycielin? > > Some LDS Family History Libraries are offering free access to the world > (complete) records at Ancestry.com through their FHC portal. > I found the record naming Myrithin under the German Casualties in the > Franco-Prussian War 1870-1871 when > searching for Franz Dominski. > > Jerry Dominski > > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at > [email protected] > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as > long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: > researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Paul, Thanks for your suggestion that Myrithin may be Mycielin. I considered the fact that Myrithin may actually be Mycielin but the document at Ancestry.com is typed and very distinct.. I wonder if Myrithin is an older German name for Mycielin? Some LDS Family History Libraries are offering free access to the world (complete) records at Ancestry.com through their FHC portal. I found the record naming Myrithin under the German Casualties in the Franco-Prussian War 1870-1871 when searching for Franz Dominski. Jerry Dominski

Jerry, I would suggest it might be a misreading for Mycielin, kreis Schubin. The two place names could look similar if handwritten. It was just north of Scharadowo/Szaradowo. Population 30 in the 1820s, so a pretty small place. I first found it on kartenmeister, http://www.kartenmeister.com which is a good place to look for places that were once in Germany. Hope this helps, Paul Rakow [email protected] JD <[email protected]> wrote: > > I recently found a possible ancestor on the "German casualties in the > Franco - Prussian war 1870 - 1871" on Ancestry. > Following the name of Franz Dominski is the location Myrithin. kreis > Schubin (Szubin). > I cannot locate any town by this name anywhere. > I have tried Mayer Orts, Slownik Geograficny, Polish road atlas, > ShtetlSeeker, Google/Pl etc. > I also thought that perhaps may refer to "area of (Szubin) but > cannot find the word in German or Polish dictionaries. > > Any help in locating Myrithin would be greatly appreciated. > > Jerry Dominski >

I recently found a possible ancestor on the "German casualties in the Franco - Prussian war 1870 - 1871" on Ancestry. Following the name of Franz Dominski is the location Myrithin. kreis Schubin (Szubin). I cannot locate any town by this name anywhere. I have tried Mayer Orts, Slownik Geograficny, Polish road atlas, ShtetlSeeker, Google/Pl etc. I also thought that perhaps may refer to "area of (Szubin) but cannot find the word in German or Polish dictionaries. Any help in locating Myrithin would be greatly appreciated. Jerry Dominski

Hi Meryl! 1. Yes, the child is male, and Majrem/Majrym is a male Jewish name, not female. If you found it for a female on the web, they might have been transposing the "jr" and confusing it with Marjem/Mariem, a female name. 2. The Dec 28 DOB must be Gregorian. That would make the Jan 5 record 8 days later, likely done after Circumcision (occurs 8 days after birth, counting the birth as Dec 29 under Jewish reckoning as it happened after sunset). 3. "Z Chemiow" means "of the Chemias", meaning she comes from Chemia's family. So Chemia was her father. It's not really a patronymic, just a way of saying her birth family, often seen in Jewish records. 4. Right, the first witness is Calka (compare the "l" to "zamieszkalych" three lines down). His middle name is Mortchajowicz, a real patronymic (compare the "t" to Aktu four lines from the end). The rest looks right, congrats! Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:poland-roots- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Rizzotti > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 11:39 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [POLAND] Need help with my transliteration/translation of > Polish Jewish birth record > > Hello Genners: > With a great deal of help I have transliterated and translated a > Jewish birth record for one of my gggrandmother's children. I would > greatly appreciate assistance as there are several questions. Below, > is the transliteration and translation.Additionally, I have posted the > actual document on Picasa. There were two copies one light and one > dark so I posted both. > > https://picasaweb.google.com/105723605731371692382 > > 1. The sex of the child is stated as male. The child was given the > name Majrem or Majreni and I am not familiar with that name so it > doesn't give a clue as to the child's sex. However, I did a search on > JRI Poland for the given name Majrem and the results were all for > females. If the child were male then there should be a circumcision > date and that is not indicated. In Judith Frazin's book the example > shows that the male child is named at the time of circumcision (done > on the 8th day after birth) but there is no such indication in this > record. Has anyone found that the sex of the child was transcribed in > correctly? > > 2. Date of birth--in the beginning of the document it states that on > 24 Dec 1862 and 5 Jan 1863 the birth was reported. I know that those > are the double dates of Julian and Gregorian. However, further down > the document the declarant states that the child was born on 28 > December 1862 but there is no other date so I am not sure if the 28th > is Gregorian or Julian. Obviously, they wouldn't have reported the > date of birth before the child was born. Is there a reason that there > was only one date for the actual DOB? The DOB that they indicated was > 4 days after the Julian reporting date and 8 days before the Gregorian > reporting date However, I don't think that was the date of of > circumcision as circumcisions were not done at birth in those days. > > 3. The mother was Ester but this record indicates her maiden name was > Chemia. I do know that Chemia was her father so is Chemiow a > patronymic? > > 4. I have put a ? in front of word(s) that I wasn't sure of both in > the Polish transliteration and the English translation > > I would appreciate it if someone could answer the questions above and > also point out any errors or omissions I have made in my > translation/transliteration. > Thank you in advance, > Meryl Rizzotti > > Here is the transliteration followed by the translation. > > > Akt 1 Tykocin > Działo się w mieście Tykocinie dnia dwadziestego czwartego Grudnia > tysiąc ośmset sześćdziesiątego drugiego roku, piątego Stycznia Tysiąc > ośmset sześćdziesiątego trzeciego roku o godzinie ósmej rano. Stawił > się Starozakonny Lejbko Abramowicz Krzewin krawiec lat trzydzieści > sześć mający w Tykocinie zamieszkały w obecności świadków ?Carlu > (Całki, Catki) Mortchajowicza Holsztejn pisarza bóżnicznego lat > pięcdziesiąt Cztery, i Jankiela Idzkowicza Glosztejn szkolnika lat > szeźćdziesiąt ieden mających tu w Tykocinie zamieszkałych, okazał nam > dziecię płci ?męzkiej oświadczany iż ?takowe urodzone jest tu w > Tykocinie na dniu dwadziestym osmym Grudnia tysiąc ośmset > sześćdziesiątego drugiego roku o godzinie ósmej wieczorem z jego > małżonki Estery z Chemiow lat trzydzieści jeden mającej. Dziecięciu > temu nadane zostało imię ?Majrem ?Majreni- Rodzice Aktu śzlubnego nie > złozyl. Akt ten stawającemu i świadkom przeczytany a następnie > podpisany został ojciec oświadczyl iż pisać nie umie. > > C Holsztyn Sylwester Szuminzky USC (Urząd Stanu Cywilnego) > Znaczy Jankial Glosztejn (the last signature is Yiddish or Hebrew) > > > Act 1 Tykocin > It happened in the town of Tykocin on the 24th day of December 1862, > 5th of January 1863 at 8 o'clock in the morning. The Jew, Leibko > Abramowitz Krzewin, tailor, 36 years old, living in Tykocin, presented > himself in the presence of witnesses ?Całki (Carlu, Catki) > Mordechajowitz Holstein, clerk (sexton) of the synagogue, 54 years > old, and Jankiel/Jacob Idzkowicza Glostein, teacher, 61 years old, > residing in Tykocin showed us a child of the ?male sex stating that > such was born here in Tykocin on the 28th day of December 1862 at 8 > o'clock in the evening to his wife Ester nee Chemiow, 31 years old. To > that child was given the name Majrem or Majreni. The parents' marriage > certificate was not submitted. This document was read aloud to those > who appeared (declarants) and witnesses and then signed. The father > stated that he cannot write. > > Signatories: > C. Holstein, Sylvester Szuminzky USC (Office of Vital Records) > It means Jankel (or Jacob) Glostein ( who then signed in Yiddish or > Hebrew) >

Hello Genners: With a great deal of help I have transliterated and translated a Jewish birth record for one of my gggrandmother's children. I would greatly appreciate assistance as there are several questions. Below, is the transliteration and translation.Additionally, I have posted the actual document on Picasa. There were two copies one light and one dark so I posted both. https://picasaweb.google.com/105723605731371692382 1. The sex of the child is stated as male. The child was given the name Majrem or Majreni and I am not familiar with that name so it doesn't give a clue as to the child's sex. However, I did a search on JRI Poland for the given name Majrem and the results were all for females. If the child were male then there should be a circumcision date and that is not indicated. In Judith Frazin's book the example shows that the male child is named at the time of circumcision (done on the 8th day after birth) but there is no such indication in this record. Has anyone found that the sex of the child was transcribed in correctly? 2. Date of birth--in the beginning of the document it states that on 24 Dec 1862 and 5 Jan 1863 the birth was reported. I know that those are the double dates of Julian and Gregorian. However, further down the document the declarant states that the child was born on 28 December 1862 but there is no other date so I am not sure if the 28th is Gregorian or Julian. Obviously, they wouldn't have reported the date of birth before the child was born. Is there a reason that there was only one date for the actual DOB? The DOB that they indicated was 4 days after the Julian reporting date and 8 days before the Gregorian reporting date However, I don't think that was the date of of circumcision as circumcisions were not done at birth in those days. 3. The mother was Ester but this record indicates her maiden name was Chemia. I do know that Chemia was her father so is Chemiow a patronymic? 4. I have put a ? in front of word(s) that I wasn't sure of both in the Polish transliteration and the English translation I would appreciate it if someone could answer the questions above and also point out any errors or omissions I have made in my translation/transliteration. Thank you in advance, Meryl Rizzotti Here is the transliteration followed by the translation. Akt 1 Tykocin Działo się w mieście Tykocinie dnia dwadziestego czwartego Grudnia tysiąc ośmset sześćdziesiątego drugiego roku, piątego Stycznia Tysiąc ośmset sześćdziesiątego trzeciego roku o godzinie ósmej rano. Stawił się Starozakonny Lejbko Abramowicz Krzewin krawiec lat trzydzieści sześć mający w Tykocinie zamieszkały w obecności świadków ?Carlu (Całki, Catki) Mortchajowicza Holsztejn pisarza bóżnicznego lat pięcdziesiąt Cztery, i Jankiela Idzkowicza Glosztejn szkolnika lat szeźćdziesiąt ieden mających tu w Tykocinie zamieszkałych, okazał nam dziecię płci ?męzkiej oświadczany iż ?takowe urodzone jest tu w Tykocinie na dniu dwadziestym osmym Grudnia tysiąc ośmset sześćdziesiątego drugiego roku o godzinie ósmej wieczorem z jego małżonki Estery z Chemiow lat trzydzieści jeden mającej. Dziecięciu temu nadane zostało imię ?Majrem ?Majreni- Rodzice Aktu śzlubnego nie złozyl. Akt ten stawającemu i świadkom przeczytany a następnie podpisany został ojciec oświadczyl iż pisać nie umie. C Holsztyn Sylwester Szuminzky USC (Urząd Stanu Cywilnego) Znaczy Jankial Glosztejn (the last signature is Yiddish or Hebrew) Act 1 Tykocin It happened in the town of Tykocin on the 24th day of December 1862, 5th of January 1863 at 8 o'clock in the morning. The Jew, Leibko Abramowitz Krzewin, tailor, 36 years old, living in Tykocin, presented himself in the presence of witnesses ?Całki (Carlu, Catki) Mordechajowitz Holstein, clerk (sexton) of the synagogue, 54 years old, and Jankiel/Jacob Idzkowicza Glostein, teacher, 61 years old, residing in Tykocin showed us a child of the ?male sex stating that such was born here in Tykocin on the 28th day of December 1862 at 8 o'clock in the evening to his wife Ester nee Chemiow, 31 years old. To that child was given the name Majrem or Majreni. The parents' marriage certificate was not submitted. This document was read aloud to those who appeared (declarants) and witnesses and then signed. The father stated that he cannot write. Signatories: C. Holstein, Sylvester Szuminzky USC (Office of Vital Records) It means Jankel (or Jacob) Glostein ( who then signed in Yiddish or Hebrew)

CB, I believe the word illegitimate was stricken from U.S. birth records sometime between 1927 and 1940 so this would account for the phrase "Information Not Recorded" rather than the word, illegitimate. Have you tried to locate a baptismal record? Debbie C Barnes wrote: > I have a friend who is trying to find out who her Mother's father was. The Mother has sent for her birth certificate and on it is written " Information Not Recorded". > > The time period is between late 30's to mid 40's. She says his name was never spoken in the house. No one ever spoke about him at all. When asked about him they would just shrug and walk away. > > ANY SUGGESTIONS on how she can find out the Name of the Father?????????? > If the birth certificate does not give the information what would be the next thing to check? > >

--- On Thu, 3/3/11, C Barnes <[email protected]> wrote: > I have a friend who is trying to find > out who her Mother's father was.  The Mother has sent for > her birth certificate and on it is written " Information Not > Recorded".  > > The time period is between late 30's to mid 40's.  She > says his name was never spoken in the house.  No one ever > spoke about him at all.    When asked about him they > would just shrug and walk away. > > ANY SUGGESTIONS on how she can find out the Name of the > Father?????????? > If the birth certificate does not give the information what > would be the next thing to check? CB: Is the surname of the mother the same as that of the recorded child? Probably illegitimate or possibly even unknown father. Does she know that they were married or of any supposed interactions (besides the obvious!) Besides baptismal records the only thing I can think of is newspaper records of legal consequences, child support actions or paperwork in family court. Otherwise, you may have to just let it go--- With that time frame, think military or CCC candidates. Good hunting. [email protected]

I have a friend who is trying to find out who her Mother's father was.  The Mother has sent for her birth certificate and on it is written " Information Not Recorded".  The time period is between late 30's to mid 40's.  She says his name was never spoken in the house.  No one ever spoke about him at all.    When asked about him they would just shrug and walk away. ANY SUGGESTIONS on how she can find out the Name of the Father?????????? If the birth certificate does not give the information what would be the next thing to check?

The -ova ending (spelled -owa in Polish) is used for married women, normally attached to surnames, but in Jewish records often attached to her husband's first name (just as her maiden name "z Chemiow" was based on her father's first name instead of surname). Whether the father was living or deceased wouldn't really affect whether her maiden name was given. The priest just left it out here, but he could have given her name as Ester Gitla z Chaimow Lejbowa Krzewin. Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:poland-roots- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Rizzotti > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:46 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [POLAND] Names Especially Patronymics > > A big thanks to all of you that responded. I will have to study the > information you have all provided in more depth but I think that it > has all been very helpful and informative. I do have one more > question. I received a translation of a Cyrillic/Polish death record > for my gggrandmother Ester (z Chemiow). In that record her name is > Ester Gitla Lejbova Krzewin. I knew about the middle name Gitla but I > am confused about Lejbova. Her father was Chemia and her husband was > Leib, or Leybko etc. If her father predeceased her would there be a > precedent to use her husband's name in place of the patronymic in > Jewish Polish records? > Thank you all in advance. > Meryl Rizzotti

Ester Gitla Lejbowa Krzewin = Ester Gitla the wife of Lejb Krzewin. Similar concept to "Mrs. John Smith". Ella -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rizzotti Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:46 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [POLAND] Names Especially Patronymics A big thanks to all of you that responded. I will have to study the information you have all provided in more depth but I think that it has all been very helpful and informative. I do have one more question. I received a translation of a Cyrillic/Polish death record for my gggrandmother Ester (z Chemiow). In that record her name is Ester Gitla Lejbova Krzewin. I knew about the middle name Gitla but I am confused about Lejbova. Her father was Chemia and her husband was Leib, or Leybko etc. If her father predeceased her would there be a precedent to use her husband's name in place of the patronymic in Jewish Polish records? Thank you all in advance. Meryl Rizzotti

A big thanks to all of you that responded. I will have to study the information you have all provided in more depth but I think that it has all been very helpful and informative. I do have one more question. I received a translation of a Cyrillic/Polish death record for my gggrandmother Ester (z Chemiow). In that record her name is Ester Gitla Lejbova Krzewin. I knew about the middle name Gitla but I am confused about Lejbova. Her father was Chemia and her husband was Leib, or Leybko etc. If her father predeceased her would there be a precedent to use her husband's name in place of the patronymic in Jewish Polish records? Thank you all in advance. Meryl Rizzotti

OK now that I have your attention and you're all in a panic. Tl~usty Cwartek is _this_ Thursday in Poland and Fat Tuesday is _next_ week on March 8. You still have time to get those pa~czki. Debbie Debbie Greenlee wrote: > Get your pa~czki! Tomorrow is Fat/Shrove Tuesday and the last day to > eat as many pa~czki as you can before Lent. > > If you can't buy pa~czki or make them, you can substitute jelly > doughnuts (bismarks) and pretend you're eating the real thing. > > In Poland last Thursday was Fat Thursday (Tl~usty Cwartek) and the > last day for Poles to eat pa~czki. > > Debbie >

Get your pa~czki! Tomorrow is Fat/Shrove Tuesday and the last day to eat as many pa~czki as you can before Lent. If you can't buy pa~czki or make them, you can substitute jelly doughnuts (bismarks) and pretend you're eating the real thing. In Poland last Thursday was Fat Thursday (Tl~usty Cwartek) and the last day for Poles to eat pa~czki. Debbie

My web site, Polish Family, finally has my photos uploaded from my trip to Poland in July, 2010. I added 19 "new"** cities including photos from the three day wedding I attended, which are listed under the village list as WEDDING 2010. The wedding took place in Grudzia~dz so you will also find some new photographs under that city name. I added photos to 25 "old"** cities. If you didn't read MY TRIP diary from my July, 2010 trip, it too, can be found on my web site under MY TRIPS. On the front page I also added three new memorials (In Memoriam), unfortunately. And, lastly is MY TRIP diary to Poland in January, 2011 to attend a funeral. Photos from the funeral can be found under the village list as "FUNERAL 2011". http://www.polishfamily.com ** new and old refers to cities which are respectively, new to my site and cities which were on my site previously. Debbie

The phrase "z Chemiow" just means she's the daughter of Chemia (the given name, not a surname). You often find this usage in Jewish records. Joe > However, > I am puzzled that my great great grandmother's name is listed as > Estery z Chemiow. I know for certain that her father was Chemia and > that her name was Ester or Estera not Estery.

I have definitely seen what appear to be two patronymics appearing in Jewish BMDs from the 1800's in Poland, but I still get confused about their exact interpretation. Remember someone's hebrew name is "given name(s)" + "son of" or "daughter of" + "father's given name(s)" I am not sure if that is a factor here. But JewishGen has a special facility called ViewMate where people post BMDs and other images for translation, as well as questions, and you might scan through the recent submissions and their answers and consider submitting your request for explanation there as well as here. http://www.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ I just spoke with a friend who has studied Russian Jewish names a little, and he said that in the case where there seems to be a double patronymic, the first patronymic is a true patronymic, and the second is likely to be a surname in the form of a patronymic. In the case of Szjena Basia Wolfow Baranowicz, I believe that would mean her maiden name was Baranowicz and father's first name Wolf. Also, don't get hung up about the final "y" in Estery z Chemiow's name. In old Hebrew, there were no written vowels, just the consonents, and when transliterating from Hebrew to Polish or Cyrilliac and then to English, names often morph to be nearly unrecognizable. For example, I found a record at JewishGen for the 1855 marriage of Josk Lejba Wejcymer to Rejza Szerman. I am sure from family members, this is Raizinke aka Risie Sherman and Yitchok Leib Wajncymer. See the differences in the names? But they sort of sound the same, and when researching Jews in Polish BMD's we have to be flexible and understand that we are dealing with records going through multiple translations and permutations, often recorded by people who did not care about perfect spelling. I also wonder, in Szejna's case, if that 'z' might simply mean ""daughter of"? Her name on her tombstone in Hebrew would be Szejna bat Wolf, or possibly even Szejna bat Velvel, as Velvel is the same as Wolf. Did the person who helped you translate know Jewish naming conventions? Another place to explore might be JewishGen's Info Files. One interesting related article, showing someone else's efforts to work with Jewish family surnames (altho not focussed on the Patronymic issue) is: Alternate Surnames in Russian Poland http://www.jewishgen.org/InfoFiles/pl-sname.html On 2/27/11, Rizzotti <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello Genners: > I have a question. I have Jewish family from Poland and Ukraine. I > have received Polish BMD documents for the 1860s. In the translations > it appears to me that even female names in these documents reflect the > Patronymic. For example, I have a birth record for one of my great > great grandparent's children that, with wonderful help from another > Poland Roots "member", I transliterated and then translated. However, > I am puzzled that my great great grandmother's name is listed as > Estery z Chemiow. I know for certain that her father was Chemia and > that her name was Ester or Estera not Estery. I do know that Jews did > not have surnames before the Napoleonic mandate and that they used > their father's names as a form of surname that is commonly known as > Patronymic naming. Names ending in -witz, wicz or vich usually > indicate the name is a Patronymic. So, I am puzzled about "z Chemiow". > The person helping me feels that her name was Ester born Chemia (as a > surname) but her maiden name was Teperowitz or Teperowicz--full name > Ester(a) Gitla Teperowicz. Is there a different system for using > Patronymics in Polish Catholic vs Polish Jewish records in the Polish > language or even in Cyrillic? There was another birth record, in > Cyrillic, where the mother of the child, was named Szjena Basia Wolfow > Baranowicz. Her married surname was Slepak. That name seems to have 2 > Patronymics or is it > that in the Russian language a person has the patronymic not only of > the father but of the grandfather. I hope someone out there could give > me some insight. > Thank You, > Meryl Rizzotti

I believe it is referring to the fact 'Estery z Chemiow' and means Estery is from the family of Chemia. Jim On Feb 27, 2011, at 5:54 PM, Rizzotti wrote: > Hello Genners: > I have a question. I have Jewish family from Poland and Ukraine. I > have received Polish BMD documents for the 1860s. In the translations > it appears to me that even female names in these documents reflect the > Patronymic. For example, I have a birth record for one of my great > great grandparent's children that, with wonderful help from another > Poland Roots "member", I transliterated and then translated. However, > I am puzzled that my great great grandmother's name is listed as > Estery z Chemiow. I know for certain that her father was Chemia and > that her name was Ester or Estera not Estery. I do know that Jews did > not have surnames before the Napoleonic mandate and that they used > their father's names as a form of surname that is commonly known as > Patronymic naming. Names ending in -witz, wicz or vich usually > indicate the name is a Patronymic. So, I am puzzled about "z Chemiow". > The person helping me feels that her name was Ester born Chemia (as a > surname) but her maiden name was Teperowitz or Teperowicz--full name > Ester(a) Gitla Teperowicz. Is there a different system for using > Patronymics in Polish Catholic vs Polish Jewish records in the Polish > language or even in Cyrillic? There was another birth record, in > Cyrillic, where the mother of the child, was named Szjena Basia Wolfow > Baranowicz. Her married surname was Slepak. That name seems to have 2 > Patronymics or is it > that in the Russian language a person has the patronymic not only of > the father but of the grandfather. I hope someone out there could give > me some insight. > Thank You, > Meryl Rizzotti > ********************************* > Need to contact the list manager? Write to Marie at [email protected] > ---------------------------------- > Discussion of Polish food, culture, and customs are welcome on the list as long as the discussion stays pertinent to the topic of this list: researching our Polish roots. > ---------------------------------- > Browse the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=poland-roots > Search the list's archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?aop=1 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Kuba Przedzienkowski

Hello Genners: I have a question. I have Jewish family from Poland and Ukraine. I have received Polish BMD documents for the 1860s. In the translations it appears to me that even female names in these documents reflect the Patronymic. For example, I have a birth record for one of my great great grandparent's children that, with wonderful help from another Poland Roots "member", I transliterated and then translated. However, I am puzzled that my great great grandmother's name is listed as Estery z Chemiow. I know for certain that her father was Chemia and that her name was Ester or Estera not Estery. I do know that Jews did not have surnames before the Napoleonic mandate and that they used their father's names as a form of surname that is commonly known as Patronymic naming. Names ending in -witz, wicz or vich usually indicate the name is a Patronymic. So, I am puzzled about "z Chemiow". The person helping me feels that her name was Ester born Chemia (as a surname) but her maiden name was Teperowitz or Teperowicz--full name Ester(a) Gitla Teperowicz. Is there a different system for using Patronymics in Polish Catholic vs Polish Jewish records in the Polish language or even in Cyrillic? There was another birth record, in Cyrillic, where the mother of the child, was named Szjena Basia Wolfow Baranowicz. Her married surname was Slepak. That name seems to have 2 Patronymics or is it that in the Russian language a person has the patronymic not only of the father but of the grandfather. I hope someone out there could give me some insight. Thank You, Meryl Rizzotti

Hi Debbie, I noted the link to the image was at [1]http://forumgenealogiczne.pl/viewtopic.php?p=4037#4037. I double checked the link now and it works. I am surprised some members could not get to this link. Someone on that board gave me an answer. I don't know where these villages are supposed to be in Poland. I posted the original document. The other sides of the document are just dates of marriage and birth. Thanks, Vera References 1. http://forumgenealogiczne.pl/viewtopic.php?p=4037#4037