Bubba, Jim, I started playing with my geneology last year. To give myself a start, I have used what others have already done. This post starts with my colonial ancester, Giles Brent. The other day I sent Bubba stuff on Thomas Grey because I had recognized the name from my geneology. But, mine seems to be a different one. I highlighted him in red below, with father John Grey and wife Cecily Bonville. Do you think this is correct here? Thanks, Wendy /Sir Robert de Brent b: ABT 1250 d: 1309 => /Sir Robert de Brent b: ABT 1280 | \Isabella Montacute b: ABT 1255 d: AFT 1308 => /Sir Robert de Brent b: ABT 1310 d: 1357 | | /Sir Adam de la Ford b: ABT 1206 | \Claricia de la Ford b: ABT 1285 /Sir John Brent b: ABT 1340 | | /Hamon Deneband b: ABT 1282 => | | /William Deneband b: ABT 1295 | \Elizabeth Deneband b: ABT 1315 | \Agnes /Sir John Brent b: ABT 1367 | | /John le Eyre b: ABT 1315 | \Joan le Eyre b: ABT 1345 /Sir Robert Brent b: ABT 1440 d: 1508 | | /Sir John Beauchamp | \Ida Beauchamp b: ABT 1371 /Robert Brent b: ABT 1480 d: 1531 | | /Sir John Mallet b: ABT 1258 d: 1340 => | | /Sir Baldwin Mallet b: ABT 1284 | | | \Sybil de St. Clare b: ABT 1262 => | | /Sir John Mallet b: ABT 1312 | | | | /Sir Symon Raleigh b: ABT 1269 => | | | \Howise Raleigh b: ABT 1286 | | | \Joan b: ABT 1256 | | /Sir Baldwin Mallet b: ABT 1344 | | | \Eliz Kingston b: ABT 1316 | | /Hugh Malet b: ABT 1388 d: ABT 1465 | | | | /Richard Lyffe b: ABT 1320 | | | \Amicia Lyffe b: ABT 1350 | \Margery Malet b: ABT 1440 | | /John Ronyon b: ABT 1362 | \Joan Ronyon b: ABT 1392 /Sir William Brent b: ABT 1503 d: 1595 | | /George Colchester | \Margery Colchester b: ABT 1480 /Richard Brent b: ABT 1547 d: 1578 | \Elizabeth Worth b: 1510 /Richard Brent , Lord of Admingto and Stoke b: ABT 1578 d: 1 May 1652 | | /Thomas Hugford | | /John Hugford | | /John Hunggeford b: ABT 1517 | | | \ Charde b: ABT 1480 | \Mary Hungerford b: ABT 1547 | | /John Hennage | \Katherina Hennage b: ABT 1514 | \Anne Cope b: ABT 1480 Giles Brent | /Edward Reade b: ABT 1470 | /Sir Peter Reed b: ABT 1518 d: 29 Dec 1568 | | | /Sir Humphrey Stanley b: ABT 1445 | | \Isiod Stanley b: ABT 1475 | /Giles Reed , Lord of Tusburie b: ABT 1550 | | | /Sir Thomas Bleugrehasset | | \Anne Bleagrehasset b: ABT 1520 \Elizabeth Reed b: ABT 1578 | /William Greville b: ABT 1310 | /Lodowick Greville b: ABT 1340 | | \Joan Thornbury b: ABT 1310 | /William Greville b: ABT 1380 | | | /Robert Arden b: ABT 1275 => | | | /Giles Arden b: ABT 1310 | | \Margaret Arden b: ABT 1340 | | \Johanna Trillow b: ABT 1310 | /Ralph Greville b: ABT 1410 | | \Frances Ane | /John Greville b: ABT 1440 | | | /Thomas Poytz | | \Margaret Poyntz | /Sir Edward Greville b: ABT 1475 | | | /Humphrey Foster | | | /Sir Humphrey Foster d: 1500 | | | | | /Sir Ralph Stonore d: 1395 | | | | | /Thomas Stonore | | | | | | | /James Butler , 2nd Earl of Ormonde b: 4 Oct 1331 d: 1382 => | | | | | | \Eleanor Butler | | | | | | \Elizabeth (Anne) Darcy d: 24 Mar 1389/1390 => | | | | \Alice Stoner | | | | | /Sir John Kirkley | | | | \Alice Kirkley | | \Jane Foster | | | /Sir Stephen Popham | | \Alice Popham | | \Margaret Reed | /Sir Fulk Greville b: ABT 1520 d: 10 Nov 1559 | | | /John Denton b: ABT 1345 | | | /Thomas Denton b: ABT 1375 | | | | \Johanne de la Launde b: ABT 1345 | | | /Thomas Denton b: ABT 1405 | | | | | /William Baldington b: ABT 1345 | | | | \Agnes Baldington b: ABT 1375 | | | /John Dinton b: ABT 1445 | | | | \Alison Dauncey b: ABT 1405 | | \Anne Dinton b: ABT 1475 | | \Isabel Browne b: ABT 1445 \Katherine Greville b: ABT 1550 | /Robert , 4th Lord Willoughby | /Thomas Willoughby | /John Willoughby b: ABT 1400 | | | /Ralph de Neville , 2nd Baron of Raby b: ABT 1291 d: 5 Aug 1367 => | | | /Sir John de Neville , 3rd Lord Neville of Raby b: ABT 1331 d: 17 Oct 1388 | | | | \Alice de Audley b: 1300 d: 13 Jan 1374/1375 => | | \Elizabeth Nevill | | | /William , Lord Latimer | | \Elizabeth Latimer | /Sir Robert Willoughby b: ABT 1425 | | \Joan Welby | /Robert Willoughby b: ABT 1450 | | \Blanche Champernoun b: ABT 1425 | /Edward Willoughby b: ABT 1495 | | | /Reginald de Gray b: 1322 d: 28 Jul 1388 => | | | /Reynold de Grey d: 18 Oct 1440 | | | | \Alianore le Strange b: ABT 1328 => | | | /Sir Edward Grey b: 1415 d: 18 Dec 1457 | | | | | /William de Astley b: ABT 1340 => | | | | \Joan de Astley | | | | \Joan Willoughby | | | /Sir John Grey b: 1432 d: 17 Feb 1460 | | | | | /William Ferrers, 5th Baron Ferrers of Groby d: 18 May 1445 => | | | | | /Henry Ferrers d: 1394 | | | | | | \Philippa de Clifford => | | | | \Elizabeth Ferrers b: ABT 1418 d: 1482/1483 | | | | | /Thomas Mowbray, Duke of Norfolk b: 22 Mar 1365/1366 d: 22 Sep 1399 => | | | | \Isabel de Mowbray d: 27 Sep 1452 | | | | \Elizabeth fitz Alan b: ABT 1374 d: 8 Jul 1425 => | | | /Thomas Grey, 1st Marquess of Dorset b: 1455 d: 20 Sep 1501 | | | | | /Richard Woodville b: ABT 1365 d: ABT 1434 => | | | | | /Sir Richard Woodville b: 1381 d: AFT 29 Nov 1441 | | | | | | \Elizabeth Lyons => | | | | | /Richard Wydeville, 1st Earl Rivers b: ABT 1412 d: 1469 | | | | | | | /John (Bedelsgate) Bodulgate | | | | | | \Elizabeth or Mary Bodulgate b: ABT 1390 d: AFT 17 Jul 1448 | | | | | | \Mary Beauchamp => | | | | \Elizabeth Woodville b: ABT 1437 d: 7 Jun 1492 | | | | | /Jean de Luxemburg d: 1397 => | | | | | /Pierre de Luxembourg Count of St. Pol b: 1390 d: 31 Aug 1433 | | | | | | \Marguerite d'Enghien => | | | | \Jacquelin de Luxenburg b: 1415 d: 30 May 1472 | | | | | /Francois de Baux , Duke d'Andria d: 1404 => | | | | \Marguerite de Baux b: 1394 d: 1469 | | | | \Justine\Sueva des Ursins => | | \Dorothy Grey b: ABT 1465 | | | /William Bonville b: ABT 1423 d: 31 Dec 1460 | | | /William Bonville b: 1442 d: 31 Dec 1460 | | | | | /Sir William Harrington | | | | \Elizabeth Harrington b: ABT 1423 d: BEF 13 Mar 1458 | | | | | /Hugh de Courtenay , 10th Earl of Devon b: 12 Jul 1303 d: 2 May 1377 => | | | | \Elizabeth Courtney b: ABT 1333 d: 7 Aug 1395 | | | | \Margaret de Bohun b: 3 Apr 1311 d: 16 Dec 1391 => | | \Cecily Bonville b: 1461 d: 12 May 1529 | | | /Sir John de Neville , 3rd Lord Neville of Raby b: ABT 1331 d: 17 Oct 1388 => | | | /Ralph de Neville , 1st Earl of Westmoreland b: 1364 d: 1 Oct 1425 | | | | \Maud de Percy b: 1345 d: BEF 18 Feb 1378/1379 => | | | /Richard de Neville , Earl of Salisbury b: 1400 d: 31 Dec 1460 | | | | | /John Plantagenet , Duke of Lancaster b: 24 Jun 1340 d: 3 Feb 1398/1399 => | | | | \Joan de Beaufort b: 1379 d: 13 Nov 1440 | | | | \Catherine Roet b: 1350 d: 10 May 1403 => | | \Catherine Nevill b: ABT 1442 d: AFT 25 Mar 1504 | | | /John de Montagu , Earl of Salisbury b: 1350 d: 5 Jan 1399/1400 => | | | /Thomas de Montagu , Earl of Salisbury b: 1388 d: ABT 3 Nov 1428 | | | | \Maud Francis b: ABT 1350 d: BEF 5 Aug 1424 => | | \Alice de Montagu , Countess of Salisbury b: 1406 d: BEF Feb 1462/1463 | | | /Thomas de Holand , 2nd Earl of Kent b: ABT 1350/1351 d: 23 Apr 1397 => | | \Alianore Holand b: ABT 1373 d: 23 Oct 1405 | | \Alice fitz Alan b: ABT 1352 d: 17 Mar 1415/1416 => \Elizabeth Willoughby b: ABT 1520 d: 1562 | /Ralph de Neville , 2nd Baron of Raby b: ABT 1291 d: 5 Aug 1367 => | /Sir John de Neville , 3rd Lord Neville of Raby b: ABT 1331 d: 17 Oct 1388 | | \Alice de Audley b: 1300 d: 13 Jan 1374/1375 => | /Ralph de Neville , 1st Earl of Westmoreland b: 1364 d: 1 Oct 1425 | | | /Sir Henry de Percy b: 6 Feb 1301 d: 26 Feb 1351/1352 => | | \Maud de Percy b: 1345 d: BEF 18 Feb 1378/1379 | | \Idoine de Clifford b: 1303 d: 24 Aug 1365 => | /George de Nevill b: 1405 d: 30 Dec 1469 | | | /Edward III King of England b: 13 Nov 1312 d: 21 Jun 1377 => | | | /John Plantagenet , Duke of Lancaster b: 24 Jun 1340 d: 3 Feb 1398/1399 | | | | \Philippa of Hainault b: 24 Jun 1311 d: 15 Aug 1369 => | | \Joan de Beaufort b: 1379 d: 13 Nov 1440 | | | /Sir Payne Roelt | | \Catherine Roet b: 1350 d: 10 May 1403 | /Sir Henry Nevill | | | /Thomas de Beauchamp, 11th Earl of Warwick b: 14 Feb 1313/1314 d: 16 Nov 1369 => | | | /Thomas Beauchamp , 4th Earl of Warwick b: BEF 16 Mar 1338/1339 d: 8 Apr 1401 | | | | \Katherine de Mortimer b: ABT 1310 d: BEF 6 Sep 1369 => | | | /Richard de Beauchamp , 12th Earl of Warwick b: 28 Jan 1381/1382 d: 30 Apr 1439 | | | | | /Sir William Ferrers b: 28 Feb 1332/1333 d: 8 Jan 1370/1371 => | | | | \Margaret de Ferrers d: 22 Jan 1406/1407 | | | | \Margaret de Ufford => | | \Elizabeth Beauchamp | | | /Maurice de Berkeley b: 1330 d: 8 Jun 1368 => | | | /Thomas de Berkeley b: 5 Jan 1352/1353 d: 13 Jul 1417 | | | | \Elizabeth le Despencer d: 13 Jul 1389 => | | \Elizabeth de Berkeley b: ABT 1386 d: 28 Dec 1422 | | | /Warin de Lisle | | \Margaret Lisle b: 1360 d: 20 Mar 1391/1392 | | \Margaret Pipard => | /Sir Richard Neville | | | /William Bourchier , Count of Eu d: 28 May 1420 | | | /Sir John Bourchier , 1st Baron Berners d: May 1474 | | | | | /Edward III King of England b: 13 Nov 1312 d: 21 Jun 1377 => | | | | | /Thomas Plantagenet , Duke of Gloucester b: 7 Jan 1355/1356 d: 8 Sep 1397 | | | | | | \Philippa of Hainault b: 24 Jun 1311 d: 15 Aug 1369 => | | | | \Anne Plantagenet , Countess of Buckingham b: 1382/1383 d: 16 Oct 1438 | | | | | /Humphrey de Bohun , 7th Earl of Herford, Essex and Northhampton d: 1372 => | | | | \Alianore de Bohum d: 2 Oct 1399 | | | | \Joane fitz Alan => | | \Joanna Bourchier | | | /Sir Richard Berners | | \Margery Berners d: 18 Dec 1475 | | | /Sir Edward Dalyngruge | | \Philippa Dalyngruge \Margaret Neville b: 3 Mar 1494/1495 \Anne Stafford Bubba, KBradford@lourdes-pad.org wrote: >Do you have access to a copy of Faris' Plantagenet Ancestry, 2nd ed.? The >Greys are treated in this work: the citations at the end of the lineage >paragraph may be of some assistance to you in your search. > See also Burke's Peerage (1963) which has essentially the same information as Kevin mentioned [PA2:156] on p. 1072. There is one disagreement on the earliest Thomas, BP has him as John. But there are a couple of additional and significant clues found in Burke's Peerage which seem worth mentioning. First, the statement that precedes this lineage: "The family of Grey is one of great antiquity in Northumberland." Then, at the end of each article, the arms are described. Compare those given for the de Greys in BP(MCMLXIII):1072: "Gu., a lion rampant within a border engrailed arg. In dexter chief point a mullet or." with those of Andrew Grey of Broxmouth, co. Roxbrugh in CP VI:98 note (c) (citing SP): "Gules, a lion rampant within a border engrailed Azure." The arms are identical except those of the Northumberland family are "differenced" as for a third son (a single mullet) [see Pembys, Dictionary of Heraldry, "M", http://digiserve.com/heraldry/pimbley.htm]. Following up, in the Scots Peerage [SP IV:269] it states: The family of Gray or Grey is common to both England and Scotland and is generally held to be of Norman origin. In the former country the family rose to great eminence, and were raised to the Peerage with the titles of Duke of Suffolk and Kent, Earl of Stamford, Baron Grey of Codnor, Ruthen, Wilton, Rolleston, WARK, and Chillingham..." So going by the armorial bearings, the family of Northumberland stemmed from a third son of the family in Scotland. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that at present we know who exactly that was. Just a thought--Kevin, if you don't mind me asking, any chance DD has anything on this family in Northumberland (WARK or WERKE, also Heton) that might help fill in these blanks? Anyway, I hope what I found helps. Jim > > ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237