Jim, As always thanks so much for the information. It's greatly appreciated. I found Elizabeth Howard's dates 1674-1710 from additional research. There were 3 Howards that had adjoining in Gloucester county Virginia. William and Thomas were two of those. I don't know where to look from here. Our whole Wren(n) family has been looking, but not to much avail. I can oly assume these two men were related somehow. -----Original Message----- From: JF [mailto:gen9@cox.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 4:59 PM To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PDP] gateway ancestors Bubba, Wrenn, Bubba wrote: >I always thought Matthew Howard was the son of a Margaret Howard who married an Arundel and migrated to the US after Henry VIII was killing the Howards. > Thomas Arundel, knt. K.B., of Wardout Castle, co. Wilts, and of Shaftsbury, Dorset, Sheriff of Somerset and Dorset, Knight of the Shire for Dorsetshire, b. abt. 1502. He was married, with settlement dated 20 Nov. 1530, to Margaret Howard, daughter and co-heiress of Lord Edmund Howard (descendant of King Edward I), by Joyce, daughter of Richard Culpeter, of Oxenhoath in West Peckham, Kent (descendant of King Edward I). They had two sons and two or three daughters. ...was beheaded on 26 Feb. 1552, his widow died on 10 Oct. 1571. [Faris, Plantagenet Ancestry, 2nd edition, NEHGS, 1999, pp. 65-6] Jim ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Bubba, Wrenn, Bubba wrote: >Jim, > > As always thanks so much for the information. It's greatly appreciated. I found Elizabeth Howard's dates 1674-1710 from additional research. There were 3 Howards that had adjoining in Gloucester county Virginia. William and Thomas were two of those. I don't know where to look from here. Our whole Wren(n) family has been looking, but not to much avail. I can oly assume these two men were related somehow. > Just a suggestion but has anyone made a field trip to VA to search local records? County Historical Societies, books on county history, land grants, deeds, indentures, ships records, church records (many on microfilm at FHL in Salt Lake) all constitute a paper trail for this family. A lot of these records aren't available on the Internet. Members of this family may have posted bonds, witnessed deeds, wills, etc. Cemeteries and cemetery records of older plots where markers are not readable might answer a number of questions. Then in England, in addition to ships (departure) records, they might have left at a time that required--I can't think of what it's called at the moment but it was from their local minister stating they were of good character and were loyal subjects. Also, Virginia had its corporate charter revoked in 1624, and from that time became a royal colony where the British government had greater control (and as such would have kept more records) than in other colonies--for a time, anyway. Another thing to look for in England then, is tax records, as all landholders in Virginia had to pay taxes to the crown and to the Church of England. I'm just spitballing ideas here but have all these things been tried? Jim