This discussion that by 4/11 included the symbolism on the monumental brass at http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/pic_lib/Tong_Brass.htm <http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/pic_lib/Tong_Brass.htm> of Sir William Vernon, knight constable of England, and his wife, Margaret Swynfen from Tong piqued my interest. First, I researched the University of Aberdeen Bestiary Project pages and found our beast Here’s a wonderful example of an elephant – like that under Margaret’s feet. http://www.clues.abdn.ac.uk:8080/bestiary_old/alt/comment/det_com/elepf65v.h tml <http://www.clues.abdn.ac.uk:8080/bestiary_old/alt/comment/det_com/elepf65v. html> And here’s the commentary in elephants translated from the Latin http://www.clues.abdn.ac.uk:8080/bestiary_old/alt/comment/analysis.html <http://www.clues.abdn.ac.uk:8080/bestiary_old/alt/comment/analysis.html> I also wrote to Rear Admiral Harris at the MBS brasses site for any insight he might have. This morning I received the following from Rear admiral Harris - “As far as your questions are concerned, the animal at Margaret's feet is an elephant. A fifteenth century engraver wouldn't have seen one, and might have thought it would do for a dragon, which could allude to St.Margaret's triumph over a dragon. Sir William has a grassy mound as a footrest and the plant is probably meant to represent, we think, a clover.” (This appears to be the actual St Margaret to whom he refers http://www.catholicforum.com/saints/saintm19.htm <http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintm19.htm> ) “English brasses are, as you say, a wonderful resource and I, for one, have been enjoying them for fifty years. All your thoughts are correct except, interestingly, that about physical likeness. It seems that they used to go to great trouble to get the status and heraldry absolutely right, but weren't interested in any attempt at portraiture until the 16th or 17th centuries, and maybe not even then, since there are no proven examples.” He wrote again later and added (regarding Paulette Marta’s suggestion of the shamrock): “Also, I've been talking to a colleague some more about the plant on the grassy mound, and she likes your idea of a shamrock to symbolize the Trinity, so thanks for putting it forward.” Just a little more to think about Barbara