Jim, do you know anything about a Thomas Howard of Virginia? His daughter Elizabeth married William Wren, my direct ancestor. A Dr. Howard claims he's either a brother or son of Matthew Howard of Maryland. -----Original Message----- From: JF [mailto:gen9@cox.net] Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 3:08 PM To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PDP] Elizabeth of York GEDCOM Sue & Bubba, Wrenn, Bubba wrote: >Dear Sue, > This bloodline is identical to mine up to grandfather Henry Neville. I descend from his son Richard and Anne Stafford. Also don't forget that Elizabeth Beauchamp's sister Eleanor was wife of another ancestory Edmund Beaufort. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Sue VanCleave [mailto:suzannevancleave@comcast.net] >Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 7:30 PM >To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [PDP] Elizabeth of York GEDCOM > > >Here is what I have on one of my lines. Some connections are questionable, >found in Ancestry.com and Genealogy.com sites. If you know of any >corrections, please let me know. I know that the Internet is not the most >reliable source. If at all possible include the source of information. > > > >Ida (Isabel) Plantagenet [1154-????] = Roger Bigod [1150-1221] > Ida, Countess of Norfolk and mistress to Henry II, King of England remains somewhat of a mystery as to her parentage. CP IX:589 says her parentage is unknown. Web pages repeatedly try to make her the daughter of Hamlin, illegitimate son of Geoffrey V, and so Henry's half brother. Were there any truth to this it would mean then that Henry's mistress would have been his own niece. In addition, there is no record that either Henry II or his half-brother ever used the surname Plantagenet. It was their father's nickname, and didn't become a surname in this family until the mid fifteenth century. Hamlin's daughter Isabel is accounted for. She married twice, first to Robert de Laci of Pontifract and secondly to Gilbert d'Laigle, Lord of Pevensey [CP XII/1:500, note (g)]. So she was not the Ida who married Roger de Bigod, 2nd Earl of Norfolk and was also mother to William Longspee, illegitimate son of King Henry II. RD600 says Ida was probably a de Toni, but that's only the latest in a long line of speculations as to her identity. >Hugh Le Bigod [1186-1225] = Maud (Matilda) Marshall [1192-1248] > >Isabel Bigod [1222] = John FitzGeoffrey [1215-1258] > >Maud FitzGeoffrey [1237-1301] = William De Beauchamp [1227-1298] > She is called Maud FitzJohn in AR7:74; CP IV:265; & CP XII/2:369-70 >Isabel De Beauchamp [1252-????] = Hugh Le Despencer [1259-1326] > She died in 1306 [AR7:72] >Hugh Le Despencer [1260-1326] = Eleanore De Clare [1292-1337] > >Elizabeth Le Despencer [1322-1389] = Maurice De Kerkeley [1330-1368] > >Thomas De Berkeley [1352-1417] = Margaret Lisle [1359-1392] > >Elizabeth De Berkeley [1385-1422] = Richard De Beauchamp [1380-1439] > >Elizabeth De Beauchamp [1417-????] = George Neville [1414-1469] > >Henry Neville [1437-1469] = Joan Bourchier [1442-1470] > >Thomas Neville [1468-1546] = Letitia Harcourt [1494-????] > You might be interested in this citation, CP VII:480 note (j) [regarding the will of Elizabeth Beauchamp, widow of George Neville]: "she made various gifts to this chantry, and some also to Wells, where her 1st husband was buried (Test. Vet., p. 357). She made provisions for Thomas Neville, younger son of her late son Henry; also for her daughter Catherine, wife of Oliver Dudley (Cal. Inq. p.m. , Hen. vii, vol. i, no. 905). This is as much on this line as I have in my database. Hope this is helpful. Jim ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Hi Bubba, Wrenn, Bubba wrote: >Jim, do you know anything about a Thomas Howard of Virginia? His daughter Elizabeth married William Wren, my direct ancestor. A Dr. Howard claims he's either a brother or son of Matthew Howard of Maryland. > I'm afraid my early ancestors came from New England and the sources I have center around the areas they lived in. Other than that, most of the rest of my sources are for the medieval period which is where I would likely have more luck in finding information on ancestors other than my own. As for the claim you mentioned, if it's the same Dr. Howard I'm thinking of, he posted for a while on one of the two Plantagenet lists. All I remember is that claimed he had sources for information he was posting (which raised some questions), but would not provide them. Hopefully this Dr. Howard will provide you the evidences you need. Wish I was able to be of more help. Jim > >