Bubba, Seeing your list reminded me of the fact that we share Anne Beaufort (Edward III) & William Paston as mutual forebears. I have additional Paston resources that might be of interest to you. Feel free to contact me off-list if you like (my email address is encrypted in the Rootsweb pedigree linked below): http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=PED&db=plantagenet&id=I1477&style=TEXT Additionally, Elizabeth Ferrers Greystoke (Edward III) is in my lineage: http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=PED&db=plantagenet&id=I2779&style=TEXT Lady Greystoke was a follower of the religious mystic Margery Kempe, and features in the latter's memoirs. All the best, Kevin "Wrenn, Bubba" <bwrenn@umpublishing.o To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com rg> cc: Subject: RE: [PDP] RE: My most direct Plantagenet linneage 04/12/2004 12:48 PM Please respond to PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANT S-PROJECT-L Edward III John of Gaunt John Beaufort Edmund Beaufort Ann Beaufort Elizabeth Paston Richard Poynings Eleanor Poynings Margaret Percy Edward III John of Gaunt John Beaufort Edmund Beaufort Ann Beaufort Elizabeth Paston Richard Poynings Eleanor Poynings Henry Percy Henry Percy Eleanor Percy Henry Stafford Richard Stafford Humphrey Stafford Alice Stafford Dorothy Savage Joseph Strother Edward III John of Gaunt Joan Beaufort Elizabeth Ferrers Anne de Greystoke Anne Bigod Thomas Conyers Christopher Conyers John Conyers Elinor Conyers William Strother William Strother Joseph Strother Edward III John of Gaunt Joan Beaufort Elizabeth Ferrers Joan Greystoke Richard Darcy William Darcy Isabel Darcy Barbara Grey William Strother Lancelot Strother William Strother William Strother Joseph Strother. These lines cover most of my research thus far. To trace back to Edward I through his daughter Joan of Acre, his sons Thomas and Edmund as well as Elizbeth would take up tremendous amounts of space. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

The following lines are my most direct to Edward III and beyond. Here goes. Let me start with Geoffrey as well Geoffrey Plantagenet Henry II John Henry III Edward I Edward II Edward III Edmund of York Richard of Cambridge Richard of York George of Clarence Margaret Pole Ursula Pole Richard Stafford Humphrey Stafford Alice Stafford Dorothy Savage Joseph Strother Mary Strother John Wren William Thomas Wren Albert Walker Wren Beverly Wellford Wrenn Henry Bradley Plante Wrenn Wellford Goundry Wrenn-grandfather Edward III John of Gaunt Joan Beaufort George Neville Henry Neville Richard Neville Dorothy Neville Anne Dawney John Conyers Elinor Conyers William Strother William Strother Joseph Strother Mary Strother Edward III Thomas of Gloucester Anne Plantagenet Humphrey Stafford Henry Stafford Edward Stafford Henry Stafford Richard Stafford Humphrey Stafford Alice Stafford Dorothy Savage Joseph Strother Edward III Thomas of Gloucester Anne Plantagenet John Bourchier Joan Bourchier Richard Neville Dorothy Neville Anne Dawney John Conyers Elinor Conyers William Strother William Strother Joseph Strother Edward III John of Gaunt John Beaufort Edmund Beaufort Margaret Beaufort Henry Stafford Edward Stafford Richard Stafford Humphrey Stafford Alice Stafford Dorothy Savage Joseph Strother Edward III John of Gaunt Joan Beaufort Anne Neville Humphrey Stafford Henry Stafford Edward Stafford Henry Stafford Richard Stafford Humphrey Stafford Alice Stafford Dorothy Savage Joseph Strother Edward III John of Gaunt Joan Beaufort Richard Neville Richard Neville Isabel Neville Margaret Plantagenet Ursula Pole Richard Stafford Humphrey Stafford Alice Stafford Dorothy Savage Joseph Strother Edward III John of Gaunt Joan Beaufort Cecily Neville George Plantagenet Margaret Plantagenet Ursula Pole Richard Stafford Humphrey Stafford Alice Stafford Dorothy Savage Joseph Strother Edward III Edmund of York Constance Plantagenet Isabel Despencer Anne Beauchamp Isabel Neville Margaret Plantagenet Ursula Pole Richard Stafford Humphrey Stafford Alice Stafford Dorothy Savage Joseph Strother Edward III John of Gaunt John Beaufort Edmund Beaufort Henry Beaufort Charles Somerset Elizabeth Somerset John Savage John Savage Thomas Hamilton Savage Thomas William Savage Mary Savage Richard Tunstall Roger Quarles John Quarles Roger Quarles Lockey Quarles James Clayton Margaret Clayton Susan Luck-grandmother Edward III Edmund of York Richard Plantagenet Richard Plantagenet-Cecily Neville Anne Plantagenet Anne St. Leger Thomas Manners Elizabeth Manners John Savage Thomas Hamilton Savage Thomas William Savage Mary Savage Edward III Lionel of Clarence Philippa Plantagenet Roger Mortimer Anne Mortimer Richard Plantagenet George Plantagenet-Ann Plantagenet Edward III Lionel of Clarence Philippa Plantagenet Elizabeth Mortimer Henry Percy- Henry Percy Margaret Percy William Gascoigne William Gascoigne Barbara Gascoigne John West Alan West Margaret West Thomas Budd Thomas Budd Elizabeth Budd Jacob Simcock Sarah Simcock Robert D Worthington Samuel Worthington Margaret Worthington Zilpah Roberson William Roberson Rankin Thomas Turley Rankin-grandfather Edward III John of Gaunt Joan Beaufort Eleanor Neville Henry Percy Margaret Percy Edward III John of Gaunt John Beaufort Edmund Beaufort Ann Beaufort Elizabeth Paston Richard Poynings Eleanor Poynings Margaret Percy Edward III John of Gaunt John Beaufort Edmund Beaufort Ann Beaufort Elizabeth Paston Richard Poynings Eleanor Poynings Henry Percy Henry Percy Eleanor Percy Henry Stafford Richard Stafford Humphrey Stafford Alice Stafford Dorothy Savage Joseph Strother Edward III John of Gaunt Joan Beaufort Richard Neville John Neville Lucy Neville Margaret Fitzwilliam Barbara Gascoigne John West Alan West Margaret West Edward III John of Gaunt John Beaufort Joan Beaufort James II James III James IV Janet Stewart John Fleming Alexander Fleming John Fleming William Fleming Mary Martha Fleming Mary Pollard Richard Thomason Joseph Thomason Richard Lee Thomason Joseph Green Thomason Stella Thomason Katherine Johnson-grandmother Edward III John of Gaunt Joan Beaufort Elizabeth Ferrers Anne de Greystoke Anne Bigod Thomas Conyers Christopher Conyers John Conyers Elinor Conyers William Strother William Strother Joseph Strother Edward III John of Gaunt Joan Beaufort Richard Neville Alice Neville Elizabeth Fitzhugh Margaret Parr Edward Radcliffe Margaret Radcliffe Christopher Conyers John Conyers Elinor Conyers Strother line. Edward III John of Gaunt Joan Beaufort Ann Ferrers William Gascoigne William Gascoigne Barbara Gascoigne John West Alan West Margaret West Budd-Simcock-Worthington- Roberson-Rankin Edward III John of Gaunt Joan Beaufort Elizabeth Ferrers Joan Greystoke Richard Darcy William Darcy Isabel Darcy Barbara Grey William Strother Lancelot Strother William Strother William Strother Joseph Strother. These lines cover most of my research thus far. To trace back to Edward I through his daughter Joan of Acre, his sons Thomas and Edmund as well as Elizbeth would take up tremendous amounts of space. -----Original Message----- From: Amanda McCormick [mailto:McCormackNnp@msn.com] Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 10:51 PM To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PDP] RE: My most direct Plantagenet linneage I might as well list my Plantagenet descent. It is as follows: Geoffrey PLANTAGENET 28th great-grandfather Henry II 27th great-grandfather John LACKLAND 26th great-grandfather Henry III, King of England 25th great-grandfather Edmund Crouchback PLANTAGENET 24th great-granfather Henry PLANTAGENET, 3rd Earl of Leicester 23rd great-grandfather Eleanor de LANCASTER 22nd great-grandmother Richard FITZALAN 21st great-grandfather Joan FITZALAN 20th great-grandmother Joan de BEAUCHAMP 19th great-grandmother Elizabeth BUTLER 18th great-grandmother Anne TALBOT 17th great-grandmother Elizabeth VERNON 16th great-grandmother Margery CORBETT 15th great-grandmother Thomas HOWSE 14th great-grandfather John HOWSE 13th great-grandfather Jemimah HOWSE 12th great-grandmother Abigail LINNELL 11th great-grandmother Johnathan LOMBARD 10th great-grandfather Alice LOMBARD 9th great-grandmother Jacob NEWCOMB 8th great-grandfather Bethel NEWCOMB 7th great-grandfather Jacob NEWCOMB 6th great-grandfather Levi NEWCOMB 5th great-grandfather William E. NEWCOMB 4th great-grandfather Charles LeRoy NEWCOMB 3rd great-grandfather Carrie NEWCOMB great-great-grandmother Arthur James MCINTOSH great-grandfather Darlene Mae MCINTOSH grandmother ----- Original Message ----- From: JF<mailto:gen9@cox.net> To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [PDP] RE: My most direct Plantagenet linneage Amanda Amanda McCormick wrote: >Henry I was the son of William I and Maud of Flanders. He was called Beauclerc because he was literate. > He was literate because, as fourth son he had been destined for the church. Beauclerc meant good scholar. Henry's next older brother Robert had already died in 1081 and his eldest brother, Robert III, by agreement with William II 'Rufus' was to succeed him as King of England on his death. Unfortunately for Robert he was away on Crusade when William died. Henry saw his chance and claimed the throne before his brother Robert could get back and claim it himself. Besides being literate in Latin and French, Henry was the first Norman ruler of England to be fluent in English. Jim ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237<http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237> ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Virkus is NOT a reliable source for the ancestries of the immigrants listed. I would not trust him as to John Howse's antecedents. Jim As the clock struck 03:15 PM 4/10/2004 -0600, Amanda McCormick took pen in hand and wrote: >Here is one of my sources for the Rev. John HOWSE: > >Sources: > 1.. Title: Immigrant Ancestors: > A List of 2500 Immigrants to America before 1750 > Author: Frederick Adams Virkus > Publication: Excerpted and reprinted from The Compendium of American > Genealogy, Volume VII, Chicago 1942, Reprinted: Genealogical Publishing > Co. Inc., Baltimore 1963, 1972, 1976, 1978, 1980, 19086, 1998, Copyright > © 1942, Copyright © renewed 1970, Library of Congress card catalog > numbert64-1935, ISBN 0-8063-0513-4 > 2.. Title: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints > Publication: http://www.familysearch.org > > >============================== >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

I was not aware the Virkus was not a reliable source. Thanks for the tip. Amanda ----- Original Message ----- From: James P. Robinson III<mailto:jprobins@ix.netcom.com> To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [PDP] John HOWSE Virkus is NOT a reliable source for the ancestries of the immigrants listed. I would not trust him as to John Howse's antecedents. Jim As the clock struck 03:15 PM 4/10/2004 -0600, Amanda McCormick took pen in hand and wrote: >Here is one of my sources for the Rev. John HOWSE: > >Sources: > 1.. Title: Immigrant Ancestors: > A List of 2500 Immigrants to America before 1750 > Author: Frederick Adams Virkus > Publication: Excerpted and reprinted from The Compendium of American > Genealogy, Volume VII, Chicago 1942, Reprinted: Genealogical Publishing > Co. Inc., Baltimore 1963, 1972, 1976, 1978, 1980, 19086, 1998, Copyright > © 1942, Copyright © renewed 1970, Library of Congress card catalog > numbert64-1935, ISBN 0-8063-0513-4 > 2.. Title: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints > Publication: http://www.familysearch.org<http://www.familysearch.org/> > > >============================== >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237<http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237>

Kevin and all, Thanks for sharing your online link. I will check the earlier generations to see if you have anything additional to my info or vice-versa. From a glance, we seem to have the same information. I descend from Edward Raynsford's son Jonathan (wife= Mary Sunderland) from Edward's second marriage to Elizabeth ____. For anyone else researching this family, there are 3 articles from NEHGR which may help you: "Edward Raynsford of Boston: English Ancestry and American Descendants" by James A. Rasmussen. NEGHR Vol. 139: pp. 225-238. The above article continued, pp. 296-315. And more recently: "Plantagenet Ancestry of Edward Rainsford (1609-1680) of Boston" by Douglas Richardson. NEGHR Vol. 154, pp. 219-226. The third article shows the line of descent from Henry III to Edward Raynsford. Grace Bliss Smith -----Original Message----- From: KBradford@lourdes-pad.org [mailto:KBradford@lourdes-pad.org] Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 9:41 AM To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PDP] Elizabeth de VERNON and Margaret Swynfen Edward Raynsford, Boston merchant & descendant of Edmund "Crouchback," is my 10th great-grandfather. A couple of years ago I visited King's Chapel in downtown Boston, but I was not successful in finding his monument (I had limited time to read the stones, which were badly weathered). At any rate, here is what I have for the ancestry of Edward: http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=PED&db=plantagenet&id=I0 520 If I can be of further assistance, please feel free to contact me privately (email address found on my Rootsweb site): All the best, Kevin "Grace Bliss Smith" <gracemi@comcast.net> To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com cc: 04/10/2004 11:03 PM Subject: [PDP] Elizabeth de VERNON and Margaret Swynfen Please respond to PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANT S-PROJECT-L Elizabeth de Vernon is my 13th great-grandmother. I would like to see information on her too, and also on Henry de Vernon's mother, Margaret Swynfen. Thanks for sharing! Grace Smith Gateway Ancestors: Robert Abell of Massachusetts and Edward Raynsford of Massachusetts ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Here's an explanation of the differences from a botanical point of view: http://landscaping.about.com/cs/lawns/a/clover_lawns.htm I have purple leaf and green leaf shamrocks blooming right indoors right now. Beautiful! Grace Bliss Smith

Edward Raynsford, Boston merchant & descendant of Edmund "Crouchback," is my 10th great-grandfather. A couple of years ago I visited King's Chapel in downtown Boston, but I was not successful in finding his monument (I had limited time to read the stones, which were badly weathered). At any rate, here is what I have for the ancestry of Edward: http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=PED&db=plantagenet&id=I0520 If I can be of further assistance, please feel free to contact me privately (email address found on my Rootsweb site): All the best, Kevin "Grace Bliss Smith" <gracemi@comcast.net> To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com cc: 04/10/2004 11:03 PM Subject: [PDP] Elizabeth de VERNON and Margaret Swynfen Please respond to PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANT S-PROJECT-L Elizabeth de Vernon is my 13th great-grandmother. I would like to see information on her too, and also on Henry de Vernon's mother, Margaret Swynfen. Thanks for sharing! Grace Smith Gateway Ancestors: Robert Abell of Massachusetts and Edward Raynsford of Massachusetts ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

At the feet of William seems to be shamrocks, always the sign of the holy trinity. Just my hunch, but you might check it out. Paulette Marta

Hi Jim - You're right they are different. I also said "Actually, it (the elephantlike snout) is not that rare a face in Medieval art, although the body features change" - And I might add here that there were as many depictions of the devil and demons in art of that period as there were fears of and vivid imaginations in regard to the unseen. But I am curious too - If anyone figures out what the artist specifically had in mind here, I hope they post it. Barbara Jim wrote: Barbara, Barbara wrote: >Jim - >I like this site to elucidate Medieval religious Symbolism - >http://www.bullis.org/edprograms/socialstudies/medieval/churchlife.htm >check out the snout on the creature to the left in "The Temptation of St >Anthony" It is very similar to that which Sir William Vernon's wife seems to >have subdued.. > But the body of the beast on her brass is more dog-like. Note the ears also. > Actually, it is not that rare a face in Medieval art, >although the body features change - but there were endless variations on >devils and evil spirits during that period. >In the Tong brasses, I particularly enjoy Sir William's teeny little twinkly >spurs and what appears to be the clover on which he stands. (Must look that >up) > I don't doubt the symbolism of the clover (shamrocks), what I was curious about is the heraldic emblem (which I'm pretty sure that is) at her feet. I don't think it's an evil spirit. Has anyone seen anything like this on a coat of arms? Could this be some clue in the form of a family emblem? Anyway, I was just curious. Jim ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

According to THIS website we are ALL correct! (That's a first) http://landscaping.about.com/cs/lawns/a/clover_lawns.htm Shamrock IS clover Usually of a trifoliate leaf structure - that's why four-leaf clovers are lucky: they are unusual. AND they are thought to symbolize the trilogy Barbara Amanda wrote: I always thought that shamrocks and clovers were the same. The four leaf clover (Shamrock) is a charm symbol, right? ----- Original Message ----- From: Barbara<mailto:ladybbug@earthlink.net> To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANT S-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 9:02 AM Subject: RE: [PDP] Elizabeth de VERNON and Margaret Swynfen OK - aren't shamrocks and clover the same thing? And you're right about the shamrock's symbolism of the Trinity. At any rate, there goes my twinkle-toes theory. (grin) Barbara -----Original Message----- From: Paulette [mailto:psmarta@kuentos.guam.net] Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 10:54 AM To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANT S-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [PDP] Elizabeth de VERNON and Margaret Swynfen At the feet of William seems to be shamrocks, always the sign of the holy trinity. Just my hunch, but you might check it out. Paulette Marta ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237<http://www. ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237> ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237<http://www. ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237> ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

OK - aren't shamrocks and clover the same thing? And you're right about the shamrock's symbolism of the Trinity. At any rate, there goes my twinkle-toes theory. (grin) Barbara -----Original Message----- From: Paulette [mailto:psmarta@kuentos.guam.net] Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 10:54 AM To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PDP] Elizabeth de VERNON and Margaret Swynfen At the feet of William seems to be shamrocks, always the sign of the holy trinity. Just my hunch, but you might check it out. Paulette Marta ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

I always thought that shamrocks and clovers were the same. The four leaf clover (Shamrock) is a charm symbol, right? ----- Original Message ----- From: Barbara<mailto:ladybbug@earthlink.net> To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 9:02 AM Subject: RE: [PDP] Elizabeth de VERNON and Margaret Swynfen OK - aren't shamrocks and clover the same thing? And you're right about the shamrock's symbolism of the Trinity. At any rate, there goes my twinkle-toes theory. (grin) Barbara -----Original Message----- From: Paulette [mailto:psmarta@kuentos.guam.net] Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 10:54 AM To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [PDP] Elizabeth de VERNON and Margaret Swynfen At the feet of William seems to be shamrocks, always the sign of the holy trinity. Just my hunch, but you might check it out. Paulette Marta ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237<http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237> ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237<http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237>

Jim - I like this site to elucidate Medieval religious Symbolism - http://www.bullis.org/edprograms/socialstudies/medieval/churchlife.htm check out the snout on the creature to the left in "The Temptation of St Anthony" It is very similar to that which Sir William Vernon's wife seems to have subdued.. Actually, it is not that rare a face in Medieval art, although the body features change - but there were endless variations on devils and evil spirits during that period. In the Tong brasses, I particularly enjoy Sir William's teeny little twinkly spurs and what appears to be the clover on which he stands. (Must look that up) True to my tendency to read much into artistic symbolism - I share the thought that Margaret Swynfen was perhaps the more pious of the two and Sir William the more carefree? Barbara > The monumental brass of Sir William Vernon and Margaret Swynfen is > located in Tong Church, Shropshire. It was placed there in 1467 which > means she had died by that time. Pictures of the brass are available > on the Internet, the best is at: > http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/pic_lib/Tong_Brass.htm. Does anyone have a clue what the beast at her feet on the Brass could be? The only thing I've seen that is even remotely similar is the Bamburgh beast, found on a seventh-century gold plaque at Bamburgh Castle in Northumberland. Any thoughts as to what this is? Jim ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Barbara, Barbara wrote: >Jim - >I like this site to elucidate Medieval religious Symbolism - >http://www.bullis.org/edprograms/socialstudies/medieval/churchlife.htm >check out the snout on the creature to the left in "The Temptation of St >Anthony" It is very similar to that which Sir William Vernon's wife seems to >have subdued.. > But the body of the beast on her brass is more dog-like. Note the ears also. > Actually, it is not that rare a face in Medieval art, >although the body features change - but there were endless variations on >devils and evil spirits during that period. >In the Tong brasses, I particularly enjoy Sir William's teeny little twinkly >spurs and what appears to be the clover on which he stands. (Must look that >up) > I don't doubt the symbolism of the clover (shamrocks), what I was curious about is the heraldic emblem (which I'm pretty sure that is) at her feet. I don't think it's an evil spirit. Has anyone seen anything like this on a coat of arms? Could this be some clue in the form of a family emblem? Anyway, I was just curious. Jim

Elizabeth de Vernon is my 13th great-grandmother. I would like to see information on her too, and also on Henry de Vernon's mother, Margaret Swynfen. Thanks for sharing! Grace Smith Gateway Ancestors: Robert Abell of Massachusetts and Edward Raynsford of Massachusetts

This is the source list for the Ahnentafel report I just sent. Match the bracketed number on part 1 to the source number below: 1. David Faris, Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-Century Colonists, New England Historic Genealogical Society, Second Edition, 1999, p. 350. 2. John Burke & Sir Bernard Burke, C.B., Burke's Peerage, Baronetage, and Knightage, Edited by Peter Townsend, Burke's Peerage Ltd.,London, MCMLXIII (1963), p. 2467. 3. Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, Who Came To America before 1700, Additions and Corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr., Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., Seventh Edition 1992, 1993, Line 56A. 4. Worcestershire Branch of the Richard III Society, http://www.richardiiiworcs.co.uk/tewkesburythumbnails2002.html, Picture Brass rubbing of Sir William Vernon & Margaret Swynfen, 1467. 5. Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, Who Came To America before 1700, Additions and Corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr., Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., Seventh Edition 1992, 1993, Line 7. 6. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, Geoffrey H. White, F.S.A., F.R. Hist.S., The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume XI Rickerton to Sisonby, 1949, pp. 704-05. 7. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, Geoffrey H. White, F.S.A., F.R. Hist.S., The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume XI Rickerton to Sisonby, 1949, p. 704. 8. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, Geoffrey H. White, F.S.A., F.R. Hist.S., The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume XI Rickerton to Sisonby, 1949, p. 705. 9. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, H. A. Doubleday & Lord Howard de Walden, The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume VIII, Lindley to Moate, 1932, p. 382. 10. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, Geoffrey H. White, F.S.A., F.R. Hist.S., The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume XI Rickerton to Sisonby, 1949, pp. 698-704. 11. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, Geoffrey H. White, F.S.A., F.R. Hist.S., The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume XI Rickerton to Sisonby, 1949, p. 703. 12. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, Geoffrey H. White, F.S.A., F.R. Hist.S., The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume XI Rickerton to Sisonby, 1949, p. 702. 13. David Faris, Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-Century Colonists, New England Historic Genealogical Society, Second Edition, 1999, p. 20. 14. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, H. A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H. White, & Lord Howard de Walden, The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume X Oakham to Richmond, 1945, pp. 123-26. 15. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, H. A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H. White, & Lord Howard de Walden, The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume X Oakham to Richmond, 1945, p. 123. 16. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, H. A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H. White, & Lord Howard de Walden, The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume X Oakham to Richmond, 1945, pp. 125-26. 17. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, H. A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H. White, & Lord Howard de Walden, The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume X Oakham to Richmond, 1945, p. 125. 18. Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, Who Came To America before 1700, Additions and Corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr., Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., Seventh Edition 1992, 1993, p. 10. 19. David Faris, Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-Century Colonists, New England Historic Genealogical Society, Second Edition, 1999, p. 60. 20. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, Geoffrey H. White, F.S.A., F.R. Hist.S., The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume XI Rickerton to Sisonby, 1949, pp. 345, 698. 21. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, H. A. Doubleday & Lord Howard de Walden, The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume V, Eardley of Spalding to Goojerat, 1926, p. 589. 22. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, H. A. Doubleday & Lord Howard de Walden, The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume V, Eardley of Spalding to Goojerat, 1926, p. 590. 23. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, H. A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H. White, & Lord Howard de Walden, The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume X Oakham to Richmond, 1945, pp. 121-23. 24. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, H. A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H. White, & Lord Howard de Walden, The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume X Oakham to Richmond, 1945, pp. 122-23. 25. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, The Hon. Vicary Gibbs, The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume I Ab-Adam to Basing, 1910, pp. 24-26. 26. Sir Bernard Burke, C.B., LL.D., Ulster King of Arms, Genealogical History of the Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages of the British Empire, Burke's Peerage/Genealogical Publishing Co., 1883, Reprinted 1985. 1996, p. 10.

I tried sending this before, but it may have been too large as I didn't see it go through to the list. Hopefully this isn't a duplication, but this time I've divided the report into two parts. The first part: The easiest way is to run an Ahnentafel report on Elizabeth de Vernon for 5 generations of her ancestors. Hopefully everyone interested can read an Ahnentafel (double the person's number for the father, the next number is the mother): 1 Elizabeth Vernon.[1] Elizabeth married Robert Corbet[1]. 2 Sir Henry Vernon , of Haddon.[2],[1] Born in 1455.[1] Henry died on 13 Apr 1515, he was 60.[1] Henry married Anne Talbot[1]. 3 Anne Talbot.[1] Anne died on 17 May 1494.[1] 4 Sir William Vernon , of Hadden.[2],[3],[1] Born ca 1421.[3] William died on 31 Jul 1467, he was 46.[2],[3] William married Margaret Swinfin[2],[3],[1]. 5 Margaret Swinfin.[2],[3],[1] Margaret died in by 1467.[4] 6 Sir John Talbot , 2nd Earl of Shrewsbury.[5],[1],[6] Born in 1413.[5],[7] John died in battle of Northampton, slain with his brother Christopher on 10 Jul 1460, he was 47.[5],[1],[8] In Mar 1444 when John was 31, he married Elizabeth Butler[5],[1],[7].[1] 7 Elizabeth Butler.[5],[1],[7] Born in 1420.[5],[1] Elizabeth died on 8 Sep 1473, she was 53.[5],[1] 8 Sir Richard Vernon.[2] 10 William Swinfin , of Lichfield.[2],[1] William married Jocosa Durvassal[2]. 11 Jocosa Durvassal.[2] 12 John Talbot , Earl of Shrewsbury.[9],[10] John died on 17 Jul 1453.[11] John married Maud Neville , Baroness Furnivalle[12]. 13 Maud Neville , Baroness Furnivalle.[12] 14 James Butler , 4th Earl of Ormond.[5],[13],[14],[8] Born ca 1392.[15] James died on 23 Aug 1452, he was 60.[16] on or bef 28 Aug 1413 when James was 21, he married Joan Beauchamp[5],[13],[17].[17] 15 Joan Beauchamp.[5],[13],[17] Joan died on 3 or 5 Aug 1430.[18],[19],[17] 24 Richard Talbot , Lord Talbot.[20] Richard married Ankaret Strange , Baroness Strange[20]. 25 Ankaret Strange , Baroness Strange.[20] 26 Thomas de Neville , Lord Furnivalle.[21],[12] Thomas died on 14 Mar 1407 in d.s.p.m.[22] bef 1 Jul 1379 Thomas married Joan de Furnivalle[21].[21] 27 Joan de Furnivalle.[21] Born ca 1368.[21] Joan died bef 1401, she was 33.[22] 28 James Butler , 3rd Earl of Ormond.[5],[23] Born aft 1361.[5] James died in Sep 1405, he was 44.[5] James married Anne Wells[5],[24]. 29 Anne Wells.[5],[24] Anne died aft 1396.[15] 30 William Beauchamp , 1st Lord Abergavenny.[18],[13],[25],[17] Born aft 1344.[13] William died on 8 May 1411, he was 67.[13] William married Joan FitzAlan[26],[13],[17]. 31 Joan FitzAlan.[26],[13],[17] Born in 1375.[13] Joan died in 1435, she was 60.[13] ..............

> The monumental brass of Sir William Vernon and Margaret Swynfen is > located in Tong Church, Shropshire. It was placed there in 1467 which > means she had died by that time. Pictures of the brass are available > on the Internet, the best is at: > http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/pic_lib/Tong_Brass.htm. Does anyone have a clue what the beast at her feet on the Brass could be? The only thing I've seen that is even remotely similar is the Bamburgh beast, found on a seventh-century gold plaque at Bamburgh Castle in Northumberland. Any thoughts as to what this is? Jim

Amanda, Amanda McCormick wrote: >Jim, > >Yes I would like their information if anyone has it. > > The easiest way is to run an ahnentafel report on Elizabeth de Vernon for 5 generations of her ancestors. Hopefully everyone interested can read an ahnentafel (double the person's number for the father, the next number is the mother): 1 Elizabeth Vernon.[1] Elizabeth married Robert Corbet[1]. 2 Sir Henry Vernon , of Haddon.[2],[1] Born in 1455.[1] Henry died on 13 Apr 1515, he was 60.[1] Henry married Anne Talbot[1]. 3 Anne Talbot.[1] Anne died on 17 May 1494.[1] 4 Sir William Vernon , of Hadden.[2],[3],[1] Born ca 1421.[3] William died on 31 Jul 1467, he was 46.[2],[3] William married Margaret Swinfin[2],[3],[1]. 5 Margaret Swinfin.[2],[3],[1] Margaret died in by 1467.[4] 6 Sir John Talbot , 2nd Earl of Shrewsbury.[5],[1],[6] Born in 1413.[5],[7] John died in battle of Northampton, slain with his brother Christopher on 10 Jul 1460, he was 47.[5],[1],[8] In Mar 1444 when John was 31, he married Elizabeth Butler[5],[1],[7].[1] 7 Elizabeth Butler.[5],[1],[7] Born in 1420.[5],[1] Elizabeth died on 8 Sep 1473, she was 53.[5],[1] 8 Sir Richard Vernon.[2] 10 William Swinfin , of Lichfield.[2],[1] William married Jocosa Durvassal[2]. 11 Jocosa Durvassal.[2] 12 John Talbot , Earl of Shrewsbury.[9],[10] John died on 17 Jul 1453.[11] John married Maud Neville , Baroness Furnivalle[12]. 13 Maud Neville , Baroness Furnivalle.[12] 14 James Butler , 4th Earl of Ormond.[5],[13],[14],[8] Born ca 1392.[15] James died on 23 Aug 1452, he was 60.[16] on or bef 28 Aug 1413 when James was 21, he married Joan Beauchamp[5],[13],[17].[17] 15 Joan Beauchamp.[5],[13],[17] Joan died on 3 or 5 Aug 1430.[18],[19],[17] 24 Richard Talbot , Lord Talbot.[20] Richard married Ankaret Strange , Baroness Strange[20]. 25 Ankaret Strange , Baroness Strange.[20] 26 Thomas de Neville , Lord Furnivalle.[21],[12] Thomas died on 14 Mar 1407 in d.s.p.m.[22] bef 1 Jul 1379 Thomas married Joan de Furnivalle[21].[21] 27 Joan de Furnivalle.[21] Born ca 1368.[21] Joan died bef 1401, she was 33.[22] 28 James Butler , 3rd Earl of Ormond.[5],[23] Born aft 1361.[5] James died in Sep 1405, he was 44.[5] James married Anne Wells[5],[24]. 29 Anne Wells.[5],[24] Anne died aft 1396.[15] 30 William Beauchamp , 1st Lord Abergavenny.[18],[13],[25],[17] Born aft 1344.[13] William died on 8 May 1411, he was 67.[13] William married Joan FitzAlan[26],[13],[17]. 31 Joan FitzAlan.[26],[13],[17] Born in 1375.[13] Joan died in 1435, she was 60.[13] 1. David Faris, Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-Century Colonists, New England Historic Genealogical Society, Second Edition, 1999, p. 350. 2. John Burke & Sir Bernard Burke, C.B., Burke's Peerage, Baronetage, and Knightage, Edited by Peter Townsend, Burke's Peerage Ltd.,London, MCMLXIII (1963), p. 2467. 3. Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, Who Came To America before 1700, Additions and Corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr., Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., Seventh Edition 1992, 1993, Line 56A. 4. Worcestershire Branch of the Richard III Society, http://www.richardiiiworcs.co.uk/tewkesburythumbnails2002.html, Picture Brass rubbing of Sir William Vernon & Margaret Swynfen, 1467. 5. Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, Who Came To America before 1700, Additions and Corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr., Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., Seventh Edition 1992, 1993, Line 7. 6. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, Geoffrey H. White, F.S.A., F.R. Hist.S., The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume XI Rickerton to Sisonby, 1949, pp. 704-05. 7. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, Geoffrey H. White, F.S.A., F.R. Hist.S., The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume XI Rickerton to Sisonby, 1949, p. 704. 8. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, Geoffrey H. White, F.S.A., F.R. Hist.S., The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume XI Rickerton to Sisonby, 1949, p. 705. 9. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, H. A. Doubleday & Lord Howard de Walden, The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume VIII, Lindley to Moate, 1932, p. 382. 10. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, Geoffrey H. White, F.S.A., F.R. Hist.S., The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume XI Rickerton to Sisonby, 1949, pp. 698-704. 11. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, Geoffrey H. White, F.S.A., F.R. Hist.S., The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume XI Rickerton to Sisonby, 1949, p. 703. 12. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, Geoffrey H. White, F.S.A., F.R. Hist.S., The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume XI Rickerton to Sisonby, 1949, p. 702. 13. David Faris, Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-Century Colonists, New England Historic Genealogical Society, Second Edition, 1999, p. 20. 14. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, H. A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H. White, & Lord Howard de Walden, The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume X Oakham to Richmond, 1945, pp. 123-26. 15. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, H. A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H. White, & Lord Howard de Walden, The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume X Oakham to Richmond, 1945, p. 123. 16. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, H. A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H. White, & Lord Howard de Walden, The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume X Oakham to Richmond, 1945, pp. 125-26. 17. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, H. A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H. White, & Lord Howard de Walden, The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume X Oakham to Richmond, 1945, p. 125. 18. Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, Who Came To America before 1700, Additions and Corrections by Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr., Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., Seventh Edition 1992, 1993, p. 10. 19. David Faris, Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-Century Colonists, New England Historic Genealogical Society, Second Edition, 1999, p. 60. 20. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, Geoffrey H. White, F.S.A., F.R. Hist.S., The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume XI Rickerton to Sisonby, 1949, pp. 345, 698. 21. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, H. A. Doubleday & Lord Howard de Walden, The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume V, Eardley of Spalding to Goojerat, 1926, p. 589. 22. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, H. A. Doubleday & Lord Howard de Walden, The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume V, Eardley of Spalding to Goojerat, 1926, p. 590. 23. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, H. A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H. White, & Lord Howard de Walden, The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume X Oakham to Richmond, 1945, pp. 121-23. 24. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, H. A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H. White, & Lord Howard de Walden, The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume X Oakham to Richmond, 1945, pp. 122-23. 25. George Edward Cokayne, The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant Extinct or Dormant, The Hon. Vicary Gibbs, The St. Catherine Press, Ltd., London, Volume I Ab-Adam to Basing, 1910, pp. 24-26. 26. Sir Bernard Burke, C.B., LL.D., Ulster King of Arms, Genealogical History of the Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages of the British Empire, Burke's Peerage/Genealogical Publishing Co., 1883, Reprinted 1985. 1996, p. 10.

Grace, The monumental brass of Sir William Vernon and Margaret Swynfen is located in Tong Church, Shropshire. It was placed there in 1467 which means she had died by that time. Pictures of the brass are available on the Internet, the best is at: http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/pic_lib/Tong_Brass.htm. She was also the heiress of Sir Richard Pype and is sometimes incorrectly called Margaret Pype. She was the daughter of William Swynfen (Swinfin) of Lichfield and Jocosa Durvassal (als: Spernor) [AR7:56A][BP (MCMLXIII):2467][PA2:350] Jim Grace Bliss Smith wrote: >Elizabeth de Vernon is my 13th great-grandmother. I would like to see >information on her too, and also on Henry de Vernon's mother, Margaret >Swynfen. > > > >Thanks for sharing! > > > >Grace Smith > > > >Gateway Ancestors: Robert Abell of Massachusetts and Edward Raynsford of >Massachusetts > > > > > > > >============================== >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > >