I> How many, for example, are working > on the other end of our family tree? The ancestors of our Plantagenet > ancestors? > > I have back about 15 generations from Fulk V Count of Anjou France through Germany, Bavaria, Alsace ? Italy, Sicambri ? Cimmerian [Ancient Russia] Troy to King Tros of Dardania! It would be a long list of names but if you are interested I can attach a text file! I must say these have not been researched they are copied, but I wouldnt know where to begin to check them all. I just thought it would be fun for my grandchildren to see! I hope this is what you were talking about? I am not of the colonies, I am descendant of the Plantaganets like many others, Im the first of my line to come to USA. Eve

Hello all, Sometime ago I had posted what I thought was my direct line to the PLANTAGENETs. Much to my dissmay, I was informed that my descent from the Rev. John HOWSE was not not vallid. Evedently I am not the only one who was miss informed. I have found several family trees on Rootsweb.com that list him with ties to the PLANTAGENETs. Is there anyway I can try a vallidate this? Where do I start? Who do I contact? Anybody's thoughts and guidance is much appreciated. Amanda, Boise Idaho

Sounds like so many amateur family genealogy web sites - Never let nasty old facts spoil a captivating hypothesis Would that make Jesus my 234th uncle - or something? My minister daddy would have been so proud.... Barbara Jim wrote: He was mentioned in all four Gospels of the New Testament and was written about by Flavius Josphus, so there's certainly reason to believe he existed. As I recall he was said to have been variously the uncle of Mary, mother of Jesus or was really James, Jesus' brother, who changed his name. Joseph's daughter, from Arthurian legends, Anna or Enygeus, was said to have married Bran 'the Blessed', the Arch Druid who in Welsh and British legendary sources was ancestor of the early British kings. Bran was reputedly the son of Llyr, who himself, according to legend, was the Celtic god who ruled the sea. So, not to put too fine a point on it, we have some unknown (probably pagan) British king claiming descent from a legendary demigod married to an early Christian/Jewish relative of Jesus, and... we can't prove any of it. Hey, works for me! :-P Jim ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

In a message dated 4/29/2004 3:57:31 PM Mountain Daylight Time, gym4jim@bellsouth.net writes: And did King Priam of Troy (my 75th ggf) really exist? Was his son Helenus also called Paris as in the upcoming movie "Troy"? And Noah? When does real life end and myths and Bible stories take over. I am seriously curious. As we learn in this "hobby", verifying and double verifying sources is important. Any thoughts?>> Yes, King Priam and Troy really existed. Once they were thought of as part of Homer's stories until the site of the city was discovered. We have archaeological proof of the city, and also the "massive burning of the city" which gives direct correlation to the story of the Trojan horse. There are also sites where ships were sunken, giving more support of the fleet involved. Was EVERYTHING in Homer true? Of course not. Just like the Bible books. It's a story, to teach, to amuse. Are there shreds of truth in some of what is written. Yes. Does it make everything true? <G> Nope. Just like a lot of mistaken websites out there. PS--I don't know if the movie Troy is based on history or what Homer wrote. But I'm eager to see it. It certainly looks more historically accurate than the Troy movie on cable recently. Having soldiers dressed in Roman uniforms is just too much of a stretch.

I am one of those who is responsible for the recent inquiries concerning gateway ancestors to Plantagenet. I have discovered quite a bit of information on the net (databases,etc) that go back to Adam. Attempting to verify connections each step of the way back as I have already been led astray once through someone's "speculation and conjecture" that the father of my "dead end" was a Percy. So taking it slow and verifying. Still haven't gotten solid confirmation of the new link I have (mentioned previously this month). And I don't understand how Adam, and some of the other old timers could live for hundred's, if not thousands, of years. And did King Priam of Troy (my 75th ggf) really exist? Was his son Helenus also called Paris as in the upcoming movie "Troy"? And Noah? When does real life end and myths and Bible stories take over. I am seriously curious. As we learn in this "hobby", verifying and double verifying sources is important. Any thoughts? Happy hunting!

Some geneological things from those times can be checked in Josephus' writings. Wendy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Delgadillo" <donna.d@mail.com> To: <PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [PDP] Ancestors of our ancestors > I'll have to check mine, but it seems there was a daughter of Joseph of Arimanthea (don't tear me up for the spelling, I'm doing this off the top of my head) who was the half-brother of Jesus. I just copied this stuff and laid it to the side because I figured there would never be a way to prove it. Now I'll have to dig and get names. Another project! > :-) Donna > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: JF <gen9@cox.net> > Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:27:45 -0700 > To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PDP] Ancestors of our ancestors > > > Hi Wendy, > > > > Priestlybride wrote: > > > > >I have only researched using what others have done. I found information > > >going way back to BC and to the tribe of Judah (Bible) through the twin > > >Zerah. I tried looking at other sources to verify this and found the same > > >information. I also got a copy of Queen Elizabeth's geneology because I > > >knew they traced the line through King David back to Judah through Zerah's > > >twin, Perez. > > > > > >According to this geneological chart of hers, she shows lines going back to > > >both Zerah AND Perez who were the sons of Judah. > > > > > >Is this what you were getting at?? > > > > > That's kind of the idea. Should you want to verify this line, or parts > > of it that can be verified, I was thinking we probably, collectively, > > have the resources here to do that. I'd probably try to figure out who > > was the gateway ancestor to the various tribes of Judah and start there. > > By gateway ancestor, we usually mean the one who emigrated to the > > American colonies or the U.S. if they came after the colonial period. > > But it also means the ancestor who connects from one group, say of > > Jewish heritage, to another, like someone of French or Germanic > > heritage. The one who bridges the gap between two groups which otherwise > > haven't been know to intermarry to any great extent. That's the ancestor > > you'd want to start with and work back finding who has verifying sources > > to see how valid such a line is. I just suggested it to see who wanted > > to participate and who didn't. > > > > Thanks > > > > Jim > > > > > -- > ___________________________________________________________ > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Thanks, Diane- My Summerfield is from England but later. I don't think it's the same Imagine being sent to WV for punishment? :) Barbara Diane Said My Summerfield is from England in 1700s, and two brothers--who were caught stealing--were promptly sent off to the colonies for their punishment. One ended up in WV area. I don't have any Summerfield/Plantagenet ties, however. Affiliated families: Asbury, Ayres, Barker, Barnum, Bates, Bauder, Bowling, Briggs, Burton, Clark/Clarke, Dyer, Ecker, Finch, Flannery, Fox, Gardner, Geary, Goodale, Grim, Hall, Hardendorf, Harman, Harper, Hayes, Hurless, Keith, Marcy, Pier, Raney, Sawyer, Schenk, Shepard, Slocum, Strong, Summerfield, Tinkham, Vansant, Whitlam, Wilks, Wolford, Wood, Woolever Regards, Diane Wolford http://www.treelines.com ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Cousins, While it's all very fun to trace ourselves back to Adam and David and Mark Antony and Odin and all the other amazing and purported ancestors of our tribe, these "lines" are all based on things like "Darda son of Judah MAY BE the same person as Dardanus, founder of Troy" and "Tea Tephi was said to be the daughter of the King of Judah, brought to the Emerald Isle by the Prophet Jeremiah himself" and even "Theodoric of Toulouse, AKA Thierry of Autun is PROBABLY the same person as Natronai Al-Makhir, Exilarch of Judah." Unfortunately, it's all a lot of hogwash. Let's not forget, we Plantagenet descendants, through the Carolingians and the Merovingians are ALSO supposed to be descendants of Jesus Christ by Mary Magdalene!!! Yeah, right. We DO, however, have some pretty cool ancestors who are quite well documented. Charlemagne, Alfred the Great, William the Conqueror, several Kings of France (Capetians, Carolingians, and probably Merovingians,) and Spain (including Saint Ferdinand) and more ancient rulers of Scotland and Ireland than you can shake a shilalagh at. Several Holy Roman Emperors, even a couple of later Byzantine Emperors like Isaac Angelos. We don't need no stinkin' Cleopatra. We have Eleanor of Aquitaine and Saint Margaret of Scotland. Regards, Chris --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs

Jim, I wish there was an easy way for my program to pick out "heads" of the farthest lines, but there isn't other than me sitting down with my Ahnentafel list and seeing where things "bottom out" while going back. I think I'll just take the simple way out, like someone also listed, and start with Edward I's line and go back a handful of generations leaving out my notes (which with some people can be quite extensive. It seems the more infamous, the more history likes to write on them.) If anyone is interested in a particular line, I'll post that line. If I went back centuries, I don't think the email will post that much info. A word of caution with names: I've included variations since some people (especially wives) went by one or more. What some have as Margarite may be Margaret in mine or even Margreta... Also, some names may end up listed as occupations. That's because with my old program, I was limited where I put extra info. With my new program, I don't have that limitation, however, I just haven't found time to go back and change everything. Thanks for your patience. 1. Edward title: King of England, nickname Edward I, Longshanks, b. 17 Jun 1239 in Westminster Palace, London, England, d. 7 Jul 1307 in Burgh-on-the-Sands, Carlisle (near), England, buried in Westminster Abbey, London, England, occupation King, Crusader. He married (1) Eleanor, also known as Eleanor of Castile, married 18 Oct 1254 in Abbey of Las Huelgas, Burgos, Castile, b. ABOUT 1244 in Castile, Spain, d. 24 Nov 1290 in Herdeby, Grantham (near), Lincolnshire, buried in Westminster Abbey, London, England, occupation Countess de Ponthieu. He married (2) Marguerite le HARDI, married 10 Sep 1299 in Canterbury Cathedral, Canterbury, Kent, b. 1279/1282 in Paris, France, d. 14 Feb 1317 in Marlborough Castle, Wiltshire, England, buried in Grey Friars Church, Newgate, London. Parents 2. Henry title: King of England, also known as Henry III, b. 1 Oct 1207 in Winchester Castle, Hampshire, England, d. 16 Nov 1272 in Westminster Palace, London, England, buried in Westminster Abbey, London, England. He married Eleanor BERENGER, also known as Eleonore de Provence, Eleanor of Provence, married 14 Jan 1236 in Canterbury Cathedral, Canterbury, Kent. 3. Eleanor BERENGER, also known as Eleonore de Provence, Eleanor of Provence, b. ABOUT 1217 in Aix-en-Provence, France, d. 24 Jun 1291 in Amesbury Abbey, Wiltshire, England, buried in Convent Church, Amesbury, Wiltshire. Grand Parents 4. John title: King of England, also known as John Lackland, b. 24 Dec 1167 in Beaumont Palace, Oxford, England, d. 19 Oct 1216 in Newark Castle, Newark, Nottinghamshire, buried in Worcester Cathedral, England. He married Isabella TAILLEFER title: Queen of England, married 24 Aug 1200 in Bordeaux, France. 5. Isabella TAILLEFER title: Queen of England, b. ABOUT 1188 in Angoulême, France, d. 31 May 1246 in Fontevraud, France, buried in Fontevraud Abbey, France. She married (1) John title: King of England, also known as John Lackland, married 24 Aug 1200 in Bordeaux, France, b. 24 Dec 1167 in Beaumont Palace, Oxford, England, d. 19 Oct 1216 in Newark Castle, Newark, Nottinghamshire, buried in Worcester Cathedral, England. She married (2) Hugh X de la Marche le BRUN, married ABOUT 1219 in France, d. 1249, occupation Count de la Marche. 6. Raymond V BERENGER title: Count of Provence, b. 1198, d. 19 Aug 1245. He married Beatrice deSAVOIE, married Dec 1220. 7. Beatrice deSAVOIE, d. 1266. Great Grand Parents 8. Henry Curtmantle FitzEMPRESS title: King of England, also known as Henry II, b. 25 Mar 1133 in Le Mans, Anjou, France, d. 6 Jul 1189 in Chinon Castle, Normandy, France, buried in Fontevraud Abbey, France. He married Eleanor title: Queen consort, also known as Eleonore d'Aquitaine, married 18 May 1152 in Bordeaux Cathedral, Bordeaux, France. 9. Eleanor title: Queen consort, also known as Eleonore d'Aquitaine, b. ABOUT 1122 in Chateau de Belin, Guinne, France, d. 1 Apr 1204 in Fontevraud Abbey, Maine-et-Loire, France, buried in Fontevraud Abbey, Maine-et-Loire, France, occupation Duchess of Aquitaine. She married (1) Louis CAPET title: King of France, also known as Louis VII or Louis the Young, married 22 Jul 1137 in Bordeaux Cathedral, Bordeaux, France, annulled 1152, b. ABOUT 1121, d. 18 Sep 1180 in Paris, France, buried in Abbey Barbeaux, Melun, France, occupation King and Crusader. She married (2) Henry Curtmantle FitzEMPRESS title: King of England, also known as Henry II, married 18 May 1152 in Bordeaux Cathedral, Bordeaux, France, b. 25 Mar 1133 in Le Mans, Anjou, France, d. 6 Jul 1189 in Chinon Castle, Normandy, France, buried in Fontevraud Abbey, France. 10. Aymer TAILLEFER, also known as Aymer of Angoulême, d. 1208, occupation Count. He married Alice deCOURTENAY. 11. Alice deCOURTENAY, d. ABOUT 14 Sep 1211. 12. Alphonso, also known as Alphonso II, d. Feb 1209, occupation Count of Provence. He married Garsinde, also known as Garsinde of Sabran, married 1193. 13. Garsinde, also known as Garsinde of Sabran, d. AFTER 1209. 14. Thomas deMAURIENNE title: Count of Savoy, b. 20 May 1177, d. 6 Mar 1233. He married Beatrix FAUCIGNY, married May 1195. 15. Beatrix FAUCIGNY, d. 8 Apr 1257. Great Great Grand Parents 16. Geoffrey PLANTAGENET, also known as Geoffrey IV or Geoffroi Plantagenet D'Anjou, Geoffrey the Fair, b. 24 Aug 1113, d. 7 Sep 1151 in Château-du-Loir, France, buried in St Julian's Church, Le Mans, Anjou, France, event 1129 in Count of Anjou, event 1144 in Duc de Normandie. He married (1) Matilda title: Queen of England, also known as Maud of England, married 22 May 1128 in Le Mans Cathedral, Anjou, France, b. ABOUT 1103 - 04 in Winchester, England, d. 10 Sep 1167 in Abbey of Notre Dame des Prés, Rouen, buried in Rouen Cathedral, Rouen, France. He married (2) Adelaide, also known as Adelaide of Angers. 17. Matilda title: Queen of England, also known as Maud of England, b. ABOUT 1103 - 04 in Winchester, England, d. 10 Sep 1167 in Abbey of Notre Dame des Prés, Rouen, buried in Rouen Cathedral, Rouen, France. 18. William title: Duke of Aquitaine, b. 1099 in Toulouse, France, d. 9 Apr 1137 in Saint Jacques-de-Compostelle, Spain. He married Eleanor Châtellérault deROCHEFOUCAULD, married 1121. 19. Eleanor Châtellérault deROCHEFOUCAULD, b. 1103 in Châtellérault, Vienne, France, d. AFTER 1130. 20. William IV Angoulême TAILLEFER, d. 1178 in Mesina, Italy, occupation Count of Angouleme. He married Marguerite de TURENNE. 21. Marguerite de TURENNE, b. ABOUT 1120. 22. Peter I deCOURTENAY, b. ABOUT 1126, d. 1180. He married Elizabeth deCOURTENAY, married AFTER 1150. 23. Elizabeth deCOURTENAY, d. 1205. 24. Alphonso title: King of Aragón, b. May 1152, d. 25 Apr 1196. He married Sancha, married 18 Jan 1174 in Saragosa. 25. Sancha, b. 21 Sep 1164, d. 9 Nov 1208 in Sijena, occupation Infanta of Castile. 26. Raimund, b. in Sabran. 28. Humbert III deMAURIENNE, b. 1 Aug 1136, d. 4 Mar 1189, occupation Count of Savoy. He married Beatrix deMACON, married ABOUT 1175. 29. Beatrix deMACON, d. 1230. 30. Henry I FAUCIGNY. 3rd Great Grand Parents 32. Fulk title: Count of Anjou, also known as Fulk V, Foulques, Foulques V d'Anjou, d. 1143. He married Ermengard title: Comtesse Heritiere du Maine, also known as Eremburge, Ermengard of Maine. 33. Ermengard title: Comtesse Heritiere du Maine, also known as Eremburge, Ermengard of Maine. 34. Henry I BEAUCLERC title: King of England, b. ABOUT Sep 1068 in Selby, Yorkshire, England, d. 1 Dec 1135 in St Denis-le-Fermont, Gisors (near), France, buried in Reading Abbey, Berkshire, England. Partner Sybilla CORBET, not married. He married (2) Matilda, also known as Matilda of Scotland, married 11 Nov 1100 in Westminster Abbey, London, England, b. 1079/80 in Dunfermline, Scotland, d. 1 May 1118 in Westminster Palace, London, England, buried in Westminster Abbey, London, England. He married (3) Adeliza title: Queen of England, married 29 Jan 1122 in Windsor Castle, Windsor, Berkshire, England, b. ABOUT 1105 in Louvain, Belgium, d. ABOUT 23 Apr 1151 in Afflighem, Flanders, Belgium, buried in Afflighem, Flanders, Belgium. 35. Matilda, also known as Matilda of Scotland, b. 1079/80 in Dunfermline, Scotland, d. 1 May 1118 in Westminster Palace, London, England, buried in Westminster Abbey, London, England. 36. William title: Duke of Aquitaine, b. 22 Oct 1071 in France, d. 10 Feb 1126. He married (1) Philippa, married 1094, b. ABOUT 1073 in France, d. 28 Nov 1118 in Fontevrault Abbey, Anjou, France, occupation Philippa of Toulouse. 37. Philippa, b. ABOUT 1073 in France, d. 28 Nov 1118 in Fontevrault Abbey, Anjou, France, occupation Philippa of Toulouse. 38. Aimery I deROCHEFOUCAULD, b. ABOUT 1076, d. 7 Nov 1151 in l'Abbey de Notre Dame de Noyers, occupation Viscount Châtellérhault. He married Dangereuse de l'Isle-BOUCHARD. 39. Dangereuse de l'Isle-BOUCHARD, b. ABOUT 1079 in L'Ile-Bouchard, Indre-et-Loire, France, d. AFTER 1119. 42. Raimond I de TURENNE, d. ABOUT 1122, occupation Viscount of Turenne. He married Matilda de La PERCHE. 43. Matilda de La PERCHE, d. 1143. 44. Louis CAPET title: King of France, also known as Louis VI or Louis the Fat, b. ABOUT 1081 in Paris, France, d. 1 Aug 1137 in Chateau Bethizy, Paris, France, buried in St Denis, France. He married Adelaide deMAURIENNE, married 1115. 45. Adelaide deMAURIENNE, d. 18 Nov 1154, resided in Savoy. 46. Reinald de COURTENAY, d. ABOUT 1192, occupation Lord of Courtenay. He married Hawise de DONJON. 47. Hawise de DONJON. 48. Raymond, d. 8 Aug 1162, occupation Count of Provence. He married Petronilla RAMIREZ title: Queen of Aragón, married 11 Aug 1137. 49. Petronilla RAMIREZ title: Queen of Aragón, b. 1135, d. 17 Oct 1174 in Barcelona, Spain. 50. Alfonso VII RAIMUNDEZ, b. 1 Mar 1105, d. 21 Aug 1157 in Fresneda, Spain, occupation Emperor; Count of Castile. He married (1) Berenguela BERENGAR, also known as Berenguela of Barcelona, married 1128 in Saldana, d. Feb 1149 in Palencia, Spain. He married (2) Richeza, married Jul 1152, d. 16 Jun 1185. 51. Richeza, d. 16 Jun 1185. 56. Amadeus III deMAURIENNE, d. 1148, occupation Count of Savoy. He married Matilde, also known as Matilde of Vienne, married ABOUT 1120. 57. Matilde, also known as Matilde of Vienne, d. AFTER 1145. 58. Gerard I deMACON, d. 15 Sep 1184, occupation Cte de Macon et de Vienne. He married Maurette deSALINS. 59. Maurette deSALINS, occupation Heiress of Salins. 4th Great Grand Parents 64. Fulk, d. 14 Apr 1106, occupation Fulk IV; Count of Anjou. He married Bertrada de MONTFORT. 65. Bertrada de MONTFORT. 66. Helias, d. 11 Jun 1110, occupation Count of Maine. He married Agnes, married 1109. 67. Agnes, d. 1097, occupation Agnes of Aquitaine. 68. William title: King, nickname William the Conqueror, b. 1028 in Falaise, Normandy, France, event 1035 Duke of Normandy, event 25 Dec 1066 King of England, crowned Westminster Abbey, London, England, d. 9 Sep 1087 in Hermentrube, Near Rouen, France, buried in St Stephen Abbey, Caen, Normandy, France, cause of death Wound received at the siege of Mantes. He married Matilda, also known as Matilda of Flanders, married 1053 in Cathedral of Notre Dame d'Eu, Normandy, France. 69. Matilda, also known as Matilda of Flanders, b. ABOUT 1031 in Flanders, France, d. 2 Nov 1083 in Caen, Normandy, France, buried in Holy Trinity Abbey, Caen, Normandy. 70. Malcolm title: King of Scotland, b. ABOUT 1031, d. 13 Nov 1093 in Alnwick Castle, Northumberland, England, buried in Escorial, Madrid, Spain. He married Margaret ATHELING, also known as Saint Margaret the Exile, married 1068 in Dunfermline Abbey, Fife, Scotland. 71. Margaret ATHELING, also known as Saint Margaret the Exile, b. 1045 in Hungary, d. 16 Nov 1093 in Edinburgh Castle, Scotland, buried in Dunfermline Abbey, Fife, Scotland. 72. William title: Duke of Aquitaine, b. ABOUT 1026, d. 25 Sep 1086 in Chateau de Chize, France. He married (2) Hildegard, also known as Hildegard of Burgundy, married ABOUT 1069, b. 1050, d. AFTER 1104. 73. Hildegard, also known as Hildegard of Burgundy, b. 1050, d. AFTER 1104. 74. William, b. ABOUT 1040, d. 1094 in Huesca, Spain, occupation 4th Count of Toulouse. He married Matilda, married 1067. 75. Matilda. 84. Boson I de TURENNE, d. 1092, occupation Vicomte de Turenne. He married Gerberge de TERRASSON. 85. Gerberge de TERRASSON, d. 1103. 86. Geoffrey II de la PERCHE, d. 1100. He married Beatrice, also known as Beatrice of Montdidier. 87. Beatrice, also known as Beatrice of Montdidier, d. AFTER 1129. 88. Philip CAPET title: King of France, b. 1052, d. 29 Jul 1108. He married Bertha, married 1072. 89. Bertha, d. 1093, occupation Bertha of Holland. 90. Humbert deMAURIENNE, d. 1103, occupation Count of Savoy. He married Gise le, also known as Gisele of Burgundy. 91. Gisele, also known as Gisele of Burgundy, d. AFTER 1133. 94. Frederick de DONJON. 96. Berengar, d. 1131, occupation Count of Barcelona. He married Dolca, married 1112. 97. Dolca, occupation Countess of Provence. 98. Ramiro SANCHEZ title: King of Aragón, b. ABOUT 1075, d. 16 Aug 1157 in Huesca. He married Agnes, married 1135 in Jaca. 99. Agnes. 100. Raymond, d. 24 May 1107 in Grajal, occupation Conde de Galicia y Coimbr. He married Urraca, married 1087 in Toledo, Spain. 101. Urraca, b. 1081, d. 8 Mar 1126 in Saldana, occupation Countess of Castile. 102. Wladyslaw title: Duke of Cracow, b. 1105, d. 30 May 1159. 112. Humbert deMAURIENNE, (see same person above in generation 7) d. 1103, occupation Count of Savoy. He married Gisele, also known as Gisele of Burgundy. 113. Gisele, (see same person above in generation 7) also known as Gisele of Burgundy, d. AFTER 1133. 116. William III deMACON, d. 27 Sep 1155, occupation Cte de Macon et d'Auxonne. He married Ponce deTRAVES. 117. Ponce deTRAVES, occupation Hieress of Traves. Affiliated families: Asbury, Ayres, Barker, Barnum, Bates, Bauder, Bowling, Briggs, Burton, Clark/Clarke, Dyer, Ecker, Finch, Flannery, Fox, Gardner, Geary, Goodale, Grim, Hall, Hardendorf, Harman, Harper, Hayes, Hurless, Keith, Marcy, Pier, Raney, Sawyer, Schenk, Shepard, Slocum, Strong, Summerfield, Tinkham, Vansant, Whitlam, Wilks, Wolford, Wood, Woolever Regards, Diane Wolford http://www.treelines.com

In a message dated 4/29/2004 12:27:49 PM Mountain Daylight Time, ladybbug@earthlink.net writes: Do I understand you to say you have gathered a list of ancestors of our Plantagenet ancestors? I am trying to build that part of my tree. And at what place and time does your Summerfield family tie in? I was trying to find information on my English great Grandmother who was a Summerfield. This is a pretty chatty list. I guess there are millions of us Plantagenet descendants. Nice to have some of them here together.>> Yes, I have some Plantagenet ancestors going from England into France, Spain, Italy, Austeria, Prussia/Germany, Northlands, Scotland, France, Wales... They intermarry whenever the politics suits them. My Summerfield is from England in 1700s, and two brothers--who were caught stealing--were promptly sent off to the colonies for their punishment. One ended up in WV area. I don't have any Summerfield/Plantagenet ties, however. Affiliated families: Asbury, Ayres, Barker, Barnum, Bates, Bauder, Bowling, Briggs, Burton, Clark/Clarke, Dyer, Ecker, Finch, Flannery, Fox, Gardner, Geary, Goodale, Grim, Hall, Hardendorf, Harman, Harper, Hayes, Hurless, Keith, Marcy, Pier, Raney, Sawyer, Schenk, Shepard, Slocum, Strong, Summerfield, Tinkham, Vansant, Whitlam, Wilks, Wolford, Wood, Woolever Regards, Diane Wolford http://www.treelines.com

Donna Delgadillo wrote: >I'll have to check mine, but it seems there was a daughter of Joseph of Arimanthea (don't tear me up for the spelling, I'm doing this off the top of my head) who was the half-brother of Jesus. I just copied this stuff and laid it to the side because I figured there would never be a way to prove it. Now I'll have to dig and get names. Another project! > He was mentioned in all four Gospels of the New Testament and was written about by Flavius Josphus, so there's certainly reason to believe he existed. As I recall he was said to have been variously the uncle of Mary, mother of Jesus or was really James, Jesus' brother, who changed his name. Joseph's daughter, from Arthurian legends, Anna or Enygeus, was said to have married Bran 'the Blessed', the Arch Druid who in Welsh and British legendary sources was ancestor of the early British kings. Bran was reputedly the son of Llyr, who himself, according to legend, was the Celtic god who ruled the sea. So, not to put too fine a point on it, we have some unknown (probably pagan) British king claiming descent from a legendary demigod married to an early Christian/Jewish relative of Jesus, and... we can't prove any of it. Hey, works for me! :-P Jim

In a message dated 4/29/2004 12:14:56 PM Mountain Daylight Time, bwrenn@umpublishing.org writes: <<I've seen some really weird stuff lately such as Cleopatra and Antony>> Since Cleopatra was of Greek ancestry, and there was a LOT of cultural and political exchange between Greeks and Romans, there might be a very good possibility they were related. I'm more familiar with Cleopatra Greek ancestry than I am with Antony. The Roman/Etruscan history wasn't in the same league in the 3rd Century BCE compared to the Greeks. Any university with a good Ancient History department can help you out if you're really curious. Affiliated families: Asbury, Ayres, Barker, Barnum, Bates, Bauder, Bowling, Briggs, Burton, Clark/Clarke, Dyer, Ecker, Finch, Flannery, Fox, Gardner, Geary, Goodale, Grim, Hall, Hardendorf, Harman, Harper, Hayes, Hurless, Keith, Marcy, Pier, Raney, Sawyer, Schenk, Shepard, Slocum, Strong, Summerfield, Tinkham, Vansant, Whitlam, Wilks, Wolford, Wood, Woolever Regards, Diane Wolford http://www.treelines.com

I have only researched using what others have done. I found information going way back to BC and to the tribe of Judah (Bible) through the twin Zerah. I tried looking at other sources to verify this and found the same information. I also got a copy of Queen Elizabeth's geneology because I knew they traced the line through King David back to Judah through Zerah's twin, Perez. According to this geneological chart of hers, she shows lines going back to both Zerah AND Perez who were the sons of Judah. Is this what you were getting at?? Wendy ----- Original Message ----- From: "JF" <gen9@cox.net> To: <PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 1:30 PM Subject: [PDP] Ancestors of our ancestors > Hey fellow campers, > > I'm curious as to what is the extent of the research being conducted by > various members of the group. It's obvious by the discussions of late > that quite a few are working on colonial gateway ancestors and late > medieval ancestors leading up to the Plantagenet kings. But what are > each of us doing once we get there? How many, for example, are working > on the other end of our family tree? The ancestors of our Plantagenet > ancestors? Keep in mind, while we each have different connections to the > Plantagenets, from that point back they're all ours in common. And > depending on who has what to say, we could have some really interesting > possibilities for information sharing here. > > Jim > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Of of the daughters of Edward I, Joan of Acre left a sizeable progeny and many of us find descents from this English princess. Yet her younger sister, Elizabeth of Northampton [ob. 1316], also produced quite a brood. Some of the inter-related families that link to Elizabeth are the Bohuns, Butlers, fitz Alans & Talbots. James Butler, earl of Ormond, is Elizabeth's great-great-grandson. His 1st wife, Joan de Beauchamp, was a descendant of Henry III: James BUTLER , 4th Earl of Ormond Birth: ABT. 1392 Death: 23 AUG 1452 in Ardee, Ireland Burial: St. Mary's Abbey, nr. Dublin Note: Called "The White Earl." Lieutenant of Ireland. Name also borne as le Botiller. Married (2) in 1432, Elizabeth Fitz Gerald (c1392-1452), widow of John Grey, Knt., and daughter of Gerald Fitz Gerald, 5th Earl of Kildare, by Agnes Darcy. Refs: AR7 120:36 CP X:123 MCS 17:9; 24:9 Faris, PA 60, 350 Visitation of Worcester, 1569, p. 133 = Joan DE BEAUCHAMP Death: BET. 3 - 5 AUG 1430 in Shene, co. Surrey Burial: Chapel of St. Thomas Acon, London Refs: AR7 7:33; 120:36 MCS 17:9; 24:9 Faris, PA 60, 350 Joan de BEAUCHAMP descended from Eleanor, da. of Henry ["Plantagenet"] of Grosmont, 3rd earl of Lancaster. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

I'll have to check mine, but it seems there was a daughter of Joseph of Arimanthea (don't tear me up for the spelling, I'm doing this off the top of my head) who was the half-brother of Jesus. I just copied this stuff and laid it to the side because I figured there would never be a way to prove it. Now I'll have to dig and get names. Another project! :-) Donna ----- Original Message ----- From: JF <gen9@cox.net> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:27:45 -0700 To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PDP] Ancestors of our ancestors > Hi Wendy, > > Priestlybride wrote: > > >I have only researched using what others have done. I found information > >going way back to BC and to the tribe of Judah (Bible) through the twin > >Zerah. I tried looking at other sources to verify this and found the same > >information. I also got a copy of Queen Elizabeth's geneology because I > >knew they traced the line through King David back to Judah through Zerah's > >twin, Perez. > > > >According to this geneological chart of hers, she shows lines going back to > >both Zerah AND Perez who were the sons of Judah. > > > >Is this what you were getting at?? > > > That's kind of the idea. Should you want to verify this line, or parts > of it that can be verified, I was thinking we probably, collectively, > have the resources here to do that. I'd probably try to figure out who > was the gateway ancestor to the various tribes of Judah and start there. > By gateway ancestor, we usually mean the one who emigrated to the > American colonies or the U.S. if they came after the colonial period. > But it also means the ancestor who connects from one group, say of > Jewish heritage, to another, like someone of French or Germanic > heritage. The one who bridges the gap between two groups which otherwise > haven't been know to intermarry to any great extent. That's the ancestor > you'd want to start with and work back finding who has verifying sources > to see how valid such a line is. I just suggested it to see who wanted > to participate and who didn't. > > Thanks > > Jim > > -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm

Hello, Diane. Do I understand you to say you have gathered a list of ancestors of our Plantagenet ancestors? I am trying to build that part of my tree. And at what place and time does your Summerfield family tie in? I was trying to find information on my English great Grandmother who was a Summerfield. This is a pretty chatty list. I guess there are millions of us Plantagenet descendants. Nice to have some of them here together. Regards, Barbara Dudley Washburn -----Original Message----- From: SnowBeri@aol.com [mailto:SnowBeri@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 1:38 PM To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PDP] Ancestors of our ancestors In a message dated 4/29/2004 11:31:57 AM Mountain Daylight Time, gen9@cox.net writes: How many, for example, are working on the other end of our family tree? The ancestors of our Plantagenet ancestors? I have a list I've gathered if anyone is interested. Affiliated families: Asbury, Ayres, Barker, Barnum, Bates, Bauder, Bowling, Briggs, Burton, Clark/Clarke, Dyer, Ecker, Finch, Flannery, Fox, Gardner, Geary, Goodale, Grim, Hall, Hardendorf, Harman, Harper, Hayes, Hurless, Keith, Marcy, Pier, Raney, Sawyer, Schenk, Shepard, Slocum, Strong, Summerfield, Tinkham, Vansant, Whitlam, Wilks, Wolford, Wood, Woolever Regards, Diane Wolford http://www.treelines.com ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Barbara, Here's a section from my database that may give you help in your quest for the ancestors of the Plantagenets. I selected the tree of Edward I, since he's one of the more common ancestors that we link to: http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=PED&db=plantagenet&id=I1780&style=TEXT I hope this is of help to you in your research. As always, corrections and additions are appreciated. Best, Kevin "Barbara" <ladybbug@earthlink.ne To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com t> cc: Subject: RE: [PDP] Ancestors of our ancestors 04/29/2004 01:25 PM Please respond to PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANT S-PROJECT-L Hello, Diane. Do I understand you to say you have gathered a list of ancestors of our Plantagenet ancestors? I am trying to build that part of my tree. And at what place and time does your Summerfield family tie in? I was trying to find information on my English great Grandmother who was a Summerfield. This is a pretty chatty list. I guess there are millions of us Plantagenet descendants. Nice to have some of them here together. Regards, Barbara Dudley Washburn -----Original Message----- From: SnowBeri@aol.com [mailto:SnowBeri@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 1:38 PM To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PDP] Ancestors of our ancestors In a message dated 4/29/2004 11:31:57 AM Mountain Daylight Time, gen9@cox.net writes: How many, for example, are working on the other end of our family tree? The ancestors of our Plantagenet ancestors? I have a list I've gathered if anyone is interested. Affiliated families: Asbury, Ayres, Barker, Barnum, Bates, Bauder, Bowling, Briggs, Burton, Clark/Clarke, Dyer, Ecker, Finch, Flannery, Fox, Gardner, Geary, Goodale, Grim, Hall, Hardendorf, Harman, Harper, Hayes, Hurless, Keith, Marcy, Pier, Raney, Sawyer, Schenk, Shepard, Slocum, Strong, Summerfield, Tinkham, Vansant, Whitlam, Wilks, Wolford, Wood, Woolever Regards, Diane Wolford http://www.treelines.com ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

In a message dated 4/29/2004 11:31:57 AM Mountain Daylight Time, gen9@cox.net writes: How many, for example, are working on the other end of our family tree? The ancestors of our Plantagenet ancestors? I have a list I've gathered if anyone is interested. Affiliated families: Asbury, Ayres, Barker, Barnum, Bates, Bauder, Bowling, Briggs, Burton, Clark/Clarke, Dyer, Ecker, Finch, Flannery, Fox, Gardner, Geary, Goodale, Grim, Hall, Hardendorf, Harman, Harper, Hayes, Hurless, Keith, Marcy, Pier, Raney, Sawyer, Schenk, Shepard, Slocum, Strong, Summerfield, Tinkham, Vansant, Whitlam, Wilks, Wolford, Wood, Woolever Regards, Diane Wolford http://www.treelines.com

I have maybe some common ancestors in the Harmon and Harper surnames. Are these post-colonial ancestors? ----- Original Message ----- From: SnowBeri@aol.com Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:38:00 EDT To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PDP] Ancestors of our ancestors > In a message dated 4/29/2004 11:31:57 AM Mountain Daylight Time, gen9@cox.net > writes: > How many, for example, are working > on the other end of our family tree? The ancestors of our Plantagenet > ancestors? > I have a list I've gathered if anyone is interested. > > Affiliated families: Asbury, Ayres, Barker, Barnum, Bates, Bauder, Bowling, > Briggs, Burton, Clark/Clarke, Dyer, Ecker, Finch, Flannery, Fox, Gardner, > Geary, Goodale, Grim, Hall, Hardendorf, Harman, Harper, Hayes, Hurless, Keith, > Marcy, Pier, Raney, Sawyer, Schenk, Shepard, Slocum, Strong, Summerfield, Tinkham, > Vansant, Whitlam, Wilks, Wolford, Wood, Woolever > > Regards, > Diane Wolford > http://www.treelines.com > > -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm

Jim, I've seen some really weird stuff lately such as Cleopatra and Antony and some guy named Lagos the rabbit. It must makes no sense. Where do people find such stuff? -----Original Message----- From: JF [mailto:gen9@cox.net] Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 12:30 PM To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PDP] Ancestors of our ancestors Hey fellow campers, I'm curious as to what is the extent of the research being conducted by various members of the group. It's obvious by the discussions of late that quite a few are working on colonial gateway ancestors and late medieval ancestors leading up to the Plantagenet kings. But what are each of us doing once we get there? How many, for example, are working on the other end of our family tree? The ancestors of our Plantagenet ancestors? Keep in mind, while we each have different connections to the Plantagenets, from that point back they're all ours in common. And depending on who has what to say, we could have some really interesting possibilities for information sharing here. Jim ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237