I was just told that Romeo or Juliet from Shakphre's "Romeo & Juliet" play was a Plantagenet. Can anyone confirm this? I always thought that these characters were just Myths, but then again Shackspear [spelling] did write a lot of plays on actual people such as "Henry V", "Lion in Winter", "MacBeth"; I guess I shouldn't be too surprised! If they are real, then is Hamlet, or Ivanhoe real as well?

I am not even ON the Plantagenet-Descendants- Project maillist (Although it's a ,mighty good thought, as a Plantagenet Descendant) and out of the blue I got these notices from Ron and Susannah! Go figure! Barbara Dudley Washburn -----Original Message----- From: susannah ohhhh [mailto:susannah_o@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 6:18 AM To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [PDP] Soemthing is going on here. Ron... That is a virus..You should just delete them all without opening.... >From: "Ron Custer" <ronaldgcus@earthlink.net> >Reply-To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com >To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [PDP] Soemthing is going on here. >Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 20:21:16 -0800 > >Hi Everyone > >I am getting some messages that say I have sent E-Mail to people that I do >not know and it has been returned. I just read one returned message and it >included some Sexually filthy words. I did not knowingling send these >E-Mails.I am beginning to suspect that something is going on here that I do >not know about. I am going to check with my ISP to try and see what is >going on. > >Anyway, I hope that some of this filth is not being sent to you and if so, >I am sorry and would appreciate you letting me know about it because it is >not of my doing. > >Some of these Virus's, Etc get very tricky. It is to bad that we have to >put up with these whacho's > >Ron > > >============================== >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > _________________________________________________________________ High-speed users-be more efficient online with the new MSN Premium Internet Software. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1 ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

They are probably the MyDoom virus. Go to www.symantec.com and download their virus sweeper to make sure you haven't caught it. And don't open any more attachments! On Thu, 2004-01-29 at 20:21, Ron Custer wrote: > Hi Everyone > > I am getting some messages that say I have sent E-Mail to people that I do not know and it has been returned. I just read one returned message and it included some Sexually filthy words. I did not knowingling send these E-Mails.I am beginning to suspect that something is going on here that I do not know about. I am going to check with my ISP to try and see what is going on. > > Anyway, I hope that some of this filth is not being sent to you and if so, I am sorry and would appreciate you letting me know about it because it is not of my doing. > > Some of these Virus's, Etc get very tricky. It is to bad that we have to put up with these whacho's > > Ron > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Ron... That is a virus..You should just delete them all without opening.... >From: "Ron Custer" <ronaldgcus@earthlink.net> >Reply-To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com >To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [PDP] Soemthing is going on here. >Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 20:21:16 -0800 > >Hi Everyone > >I am getting some messages that say I have sent E-Mail to people that I do >not know and it has been returned. I just read one returned message and it >included some Sexually filthy words. I did not knowingling send these >E-Mails.I am beginning to suspect that something is going on here that I do >not know about. I am going to check with my ISP to try and see what is >going on. > >Anyway, I hope that some of this filth is not being sent to you and if so, >I am sorry and would appreciate you letting me know about it because it is >not of my doing. > >Some of these Virus's, Etc get very tricky. It is to bad that we have to >put up with these whacho's > >Ron > > >============================== >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > _________________________________________________________________ High-speed users—be more efficient online with the new MSN Premium Internet Software. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1

Hi Everyone I am getting some messages that say I have sent E-Mail to people that I do not know and it has been returned. I just read one returned message and it included some Sexually filthy words. I did not knowingling send these E-Mails.I am beginning to suspect that something is going on here that I do not know about. I am going to check with my ISP to try and see what is going on. Anyway, I hope that some of this filth is not being sent to you and if so, I am sorry and would appreciate you letting me know about it because it is not of my doing. Some of these Virus's, Etc get very tricky. It is to bad that we have to put up with these whacho's Ron

Well Thank you for the compliments. Dan czarnecki wrote: >Dan, > >What a wonderful website and what an inspiration to all of us compiling our >family's history. > >Your site has shown me that I should have a similar page on my family's >veterans when I put my genealogy on line. What an excellent addition this >link would make for all out family web pages. > >Thank you. > >Christine Czarnecki >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Daniel Geyer and Family." <aprildan@geyer.com> >To: <PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 9:05 AM >Subject: [PDP] Veterans Day Thanks and rememberances. > > > > >>Hello >> As We in the USA celebrate Veterans Day I would like to say just a >>few words to all our veterans and fallen heroes on the Battlefields >>across the World. Thank you for all you do and have done for this >>country and for others. I have ancestors that served both Great Britain >>and the United States and I am very proud of my heritage. Here is a >>list of my ancestors that served. >> >> >> >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~geyerseybold/folder/MilitaryService.html > > >>Thanks >>Dan Geyer >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>-- >> >>Daniel J. Geÿer Esq. >> >> >> >> >>============================== >>To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, >> >> >go to: > > >>http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >> >> > > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > -- Daniel J. Geÿer Esq.

Dan, What a wonderful website and what an inspiration to all of us compiling our family's history. Your site has shown me that I should have a similar page on my family's veterans when I put my genealogy on line. What an excellent addition this link would make for all out family web pages. Thank you. Christine Czarnecki ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Geyer and Family." <aprildan@geyer.com> To: <PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: [PDP] Veterans Day Thanks and rememberances. > Hello > As We in the USA celebrate Veterans Day I would like to say just a > few words to all our veterans and fallen heroes on the Battlefields > across the World. Thank you for all you do and have done for this > country and for others. I have ancestors that served both Great Britain > and the United States and I am very proud of my heritage. Here is a > list of my ancestors that served. > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~geyerseybold/folder/MilitaryService.html > Thanks > Dan Geyer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Daniel J. Geÿer Esq. > > > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Thank you very much Dynamite wrote: >VERY nice website, Dan. I particularly like your organization. > >Helen Gant Donald > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Daniel Geyer and Family." <aprildan@geyer.com> >To: <PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 12:05 PM >Subject: [PDP] Veterans Day Thanks and rememberances. > > > > >>Hello >> As We in the USA celebrate Veterans Day I would like to say just a >>few words to all our veterans and fallen heroes on the Battlefields >>across the World. Thank you for all you do and have done for this >>country and for others. I have ancestors that served both Great Britain >>and the United States and I am very proud of my heritage. Here is a >>list of my ancestors that served. >> >> >> >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~geyerseybold/folder/MilitaryService.html > > >>Thanks >>Dan Geyer >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>-- >> >>Daniel J. Geÿer Esq. >> >> >> >> >>============================== >>To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, >> >> >go to: > > >>http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >> >> >> >> >> > > > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > -- Daniel J. Geÿer Esq.

VERY nice website, Dan. I particularly like your organization. Helen Gant Donald ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Geyer and Family." <aprildan@geyer.com> To: <PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 12:05 PM Subject: [PDP] Veterans Day Thanks and rememberances. > Hello > As We in the USA celebrate Veterans Day I would like to say just a > few words to all our veterans and fallen heroes on the Battlefields > across the World. Thank you for all you do and have done for this > country and for others. I have ancestors that served both Great Britain > and the United States and I am very proud of my heritage. Here is a > list of my ancestors that served. > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~geyerseybold/folder/MilitaryService.html > Thanks > Dan Geyer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Daniel J. Geÿer Esq. > > > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > >

Hello As We in the USA celebrate Veterans Day I would like to say just a few words to all our veterans and fallen heroes on the Battlefields across the World. Thank you for all you do and have done for this country and for others. I have ancestors that served both Great Britain and the United States and I am very proud of my heritage. Here is a list of my ancestors that served. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~geyerseybold/folder/MilitaryService.html Thanks Dan Geyer -- Daniel J. Geÿer Esq.

during my research plantagenet for a first name is common in the 15th century in worcester, was it a fashionable christian name or was it patriotic? regards rita

Seeking a transcript/published copy of Queen Margaret's will [dated 16 Aug. 1308]. Reference to this document has been made in A. Crawford's, _Letters of the Queens of England_ [Sutton Publishing, 2002] as well as Moor's _Knights of Edward I_ [H.S.P., 1930], v. 3, p. 118. I've checked my copy of Nicolas' _Testamenta Vetusta_ & Margaret's testament is not printed therein. Margaret, da. of Philip III of France & 2nd wife of Edward I, is a Plantagenet ancestress in her own right, grandmother of Joan of Kent ["The Fair Maid"]. Historians seem to have mostly ignored Margaret, in favor of her more famous predecessor, Eleanor of Castile. Yet there are a few glimpses of her as a young queen, fond of music, minstrels and the hunt. While in an "advanced state of pregnancy," she occupied her time hunting at Wharfdale in Yorkshire, until her time had come and she had to retreat to Brotherton, where her first son was born [Crawford, p. 76]. She acted as a mediating influence between her husband and step-son, Edward II, the latter who referred to her as "our dear mother" and "very dear lady" [ibid, 77]. A sensitive statue portrayal of the young queen is found in Lincoln Cathedral [linked to my site]. Kevin Homepage: http://home.earthlink.net/~kdb60/plantagenet01.htm Database: http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=plantagenet "Think not that the nobilitie of your ancestors doth free you to doe all that you list, contrariwise, may it bindeth you more to follow vertue." -- Pierre Erondell Anyone who believes that they belong to one race, or that their ancestors were fine people, hasn't done enough genealogy." -- Mark Humphrys

For those interested in the subject of DNA testing applied to genealogical problems, there is an interesting article by Manrubia et al in the American Scientist, "Genealogy in the era of genomics" [March -April 2003, pp. 158-65]. The authors correctly assess the incomplete picture that standard Y-line [direct male] or MtDNA [direct female] studies provide for the purposes of genealogical study, since the vast majority of our DNA [99%] are *recombinant*. Of particular interest to Plantagenet descendants [virtually all of whom descend from various combinations of female and male direct-line descent as opposed to the standard female-to-female, male-to-male models that DNA research is presently restricted to], this study uses Edward IV's pedigree charts [reproduced in full color] as a springboard for discussion. Throughout human history, people have lived in, for the most part, closed populations. These are just the sort of conditions ideal for the creation of merged pedigrees. >From examining closed populations, most notably using the Plantagenets as a typical model of coalescence, this study concludes that pedigree collapse [Chang, 1999] produces a common family tree for humankind in a matter of *hundreds,* not hundred of thousands, of years. The peasantry, who form the bulk of the ancestors of today's populations, faced the same closed conditions as their noble/royal contemporaries: limitation to a particular demesne and geography, resulting in an equally restricted pool of marriage partners. This phenomenon increases exponentially in the American colonial Eastern seaboard settlements. These facts, to a genealogist, are far more compelling than Bryan Sykes' bestselling book on mtDNA, _The Seven Daughters of Eve_. We are, all of us, related to each other. Genealogy can tell us exactly how this is, provided we follow proper genealogical standards of evidence [Stevenson, Genealogical Evidence: A Guide to the Standard of Proof Relating to Pedigrees, Ancestry, Heirship and Family History; Board for Certification of Genealogists, Genealogical Standards Manual]. Seasoned genealogists, particularly those who specialize in medieval ancestral lines, have long been privy to the fact of inter-relatedness. It may no longer be a question of "if" a significant number of the human population is descended from medieval-era nobility/royalty, but "how much." The democratization of medieval-era nobility is at hand. There are few, if any, bragging rights to be enjoyed from claiming royal descents. There is, however, tremendous satisfaction to be gained by actually proving from contemporary and quality secondary evidences that these descents exist in one's own ancestry. These links are the key to connecting to the world family tree that virtually all of us with European ancestry shares. In over 30 years of research, I've only managed to identify 20% of my ancestors 12 generations in the past; yet, I've uncovered multiple instances of cousin marriages, and at least five "gateway" ancestors with vetted descents from the medieval English monarchs. KB Homepage: http://home.earthlink.net/~kdb60/plantagenet01.htm Database: http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=plantagenet "Anyone who believes they belong to one race, or that their ancestors were fine people, hasn't done enough genealogy." -- Mark Humphrys

There was a Thiuduraiks which was a Goth. They were a Germanic speaking people not Semetic. Arian Christians. Le ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Jay Becker" <chrisjaybecker@yahoo.com> To: <PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2003 5:03 PM Subject: [PDP] Theodoric of Toulouse/Natronai al-Makhir Dear Plantagenet cousins, Does anyone hear know much about the rather controversial identification of William the Conqueror ancestor Theodoric I, Duke of Toulouse with the Jewish Exilarch Natronai al-Makhir? The primary reference for this is Zuckermann's "A Jewish Princedom in Feudal France." Can anyone find anything else proving or disproving that Theodoric and al-Makhir are the same person? --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

I believe this subject was discussed at some length in this forum within the last 60 or 90 days. You might try the archives. At this point, it certainly is not proven that Theuderic was Makhir. In fact, it appears very unlikely that he was, even if it is within the broadest realm of possibility. Jim As the clock struck 03:03 PM 9/20/2003 -0700, Chris Jay Becker took pen in hand and wrote: >Dear Plantagenet cousins, > >Does anyone hear know much about the rather controversial identification >of William the Conqueror ancestor Theodoric I, Duke of Toulouse with the >Jewish Exilarch Natronai al-Makhir? The primary reference for this is >Zuckermann's "A Jewish Princedom in Feudal France." Can anyone find >anything else proving or disproving that Theodoric and al-Makhir are the >same person? -- ================================================= James P. Robinson III jprobins@ix.netcom.com All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly given in writing. =================================================

Seeking a transcript/published copy of Queen Margaret's will [dated 16 Aug. 1308]. Reference to this document has been made in A. Crawford's, _Letters of the Queens of England_ [Sutton Publishing, 2002] as well as Moor's _Knights of Edward I_ [H.S.P., 1930], v. 3, p. 118. I've checked my copy of Nicolas' _Testamenta Vetusta_ & Margaret's testament is not printed therein. Margaret, da. of Philip III of France & 2nd wife of Edward I, is a Plantagenet ancestress in her own right, grandmother of Joan of Kent ["The Fair Maid"]. Historians seem to have mostly ignored Margaret, in favor of her more famous predecessor, Eleanor of Castile. Yet there are a few glimpses of her as a young queen, fond of music, minstrels and the hunt. While in an "advanced state of pregnancy," she occupied her time hunting at Wharfdale in Yorkshire, until her time had come and she had to retreat to Brotherton, where her first son was born [Crawford, p. 76]. She acted as a mediating influence between her husband and step-son, Edward II, the latter who referred to her as "our dear mother" and "very dear lady" [ibid, 77]. A sensitive statue portrayal of the young queen is found in Lincoln Cathedral [linked to my site]. Kevin Homepage: http://home.earthlink.net/~kdb60/plantagenet01.htm Database: http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=plantagenet "Think not that the nobilitie of your ancestors doth free you to doe all that you list, contrariwise, may it bindeth you more to follow vertue." -- Pierre Erondell

Chris, As with all Biblical genealogies, the proofs for these purported lineages fall far short of acceptable standards of evidence. The questionable veracity of epics and traditional accounts, written in archaic languages and incapable of exact translation of naming patterns, is an often difficult roadblock in the search for genealogical evidences. Zuckermann's theories, first propounded in 1972, have since been widely discredited by more than one authority. Christian Settipani and Patrick Van Kerrebrouck, in their 1993 work _La prehistoire des Capetiens 481-987, Premiere partie: Merovingiens, Carolingiens et Robertiens_ (pp. 173-6), propose a European background. Nat Taylor exposed the weak points in this thesis in a series of comments to SGM in 1996. Following these threads will take some study, as there are over two dozen in 1995 and 1996 alone: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GEN-MEDIEVAL Type in "Makhir" in the search field and you will be linked to the various postings of interest. Kevin On Monday, September 22, 2003, 11:50:20 PM, you wrote: LB> There was a Thiuduraiks which was a Goth. They were a Germanic speaking LB> people not Semetic. Arian Christians. LB> Le LB> ----- Original Message ----- LB> From: "Chris Jay Becker" <chrisjaybecker@yahoo.com> LB> To: <PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com> LB> Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2003 5:03 PM LB> Subject: [PDP] Theodoric of Toulouse/Natronai al-Makhir LB> Dear Plantagenet cousins, LB> Does anyone hear know much about the rather controversial identification of LB> William the Conqueror ancestor Theodoric I, Duke of Toulouse with the Jewish LB> Exilarch Natronai al-Makhir? The primary reference for this is Zuckermann's LB> "A Jewish Princedom in Feudal France." Can anyone find anything else proving LB> or disproving that Theodoric and al-Makhir are the same person? LB> --------------------------------- LB> Do you Yahoo!? LB> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software LB> ============================== LB> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go LB> to: LB> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 LB> ============================== LB> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: LB> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

No, this Theodoric of Toulouse may have also been known as Thierry of Autun, but he wasn't Thiuduraiks. Le Bateman <LeBateman@netzero.net> wrote:There was a Thiuduraiks which was a Goth. They were a Germanic speaking people not Semetic. Arian Christians. Le ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Jay Becker" To: Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2003 5:03 PM Subject: [PDP] Theodoric of Toulouse/Natronai al-Makhir Dear Plantagenet cousins, Does anyone hear know much about the rather controversial identification of William the Conqueror ancestor Theodoric I, Duke of Toulouse with the Jewish Exilarch Natronai al-Makhir? The primary reference for this is Zuckermann's "A Jewish Princedom in Feudal France." Can anyone find anything else proving or disproving that Theodoric and al-Makhir are the same person? --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

Dear Plantagenet cousins, Does anyone hear know much about the rather controversial identification of William the Conqueror ancestor Theodoric I, Duke of Toulouse with the Jewish Exilarch Natronai al-Makhir? The primary reference for this is Zuckermann's "A Jewish Princedom in Feudal France." Can anyone find anything else proving or disproving that Theodoric and al-Makhir are the same person? --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

An excellent resource for tracing the origins and geography of streets, inns, and other features of the city of London. Frequent references to medieval tenants and manor-holders are found therein: http://www.motco.com/Harben/ Locations can be tracked to their modern equivalents with Multimap [British focus]: http://uk2.multimap.com/map/home.cgi?client=public&overviewmap=GB