Why not just post it on the list - unless it's some supersecret closed fraternity. HGD ----- Original Message ----- From: "JJ Johnson" <gnbf@tampabay.rr.com> To: <PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [PDP] Plantagenet Society > >I would like to become a member of the Plantagenet Society. If > >anyone has any information regarding how and where to join it would > >be greatly appreciated. > >Thank you, > >Bruce White > > Please forward the info to me also... J > -- > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > >

>I would like to become a member of the Plantagenet Society. If >anyone has any information regarding how and where to join it would >be greatly appreciated. >Thank you, >Bruce White Please forward the info to me also... J --

I would like to become a member of the Plantagenet Society. If anyone has any information regarding how and where to join it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Bruce White www.cyberancestors.com bwhite@cyberancestors.com

Thanks, Teresa, I've ordered the book through the inter-library loan and hope it is available. Very much appreciated. Emily E. > In Gary Boyd Roberts' book 2nd edition pg 204, there is a Mary Harris who > married Col Thomas Ligon. The line is traced up through Ligon line to Edward > I. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gordon Banks [mailto:geb@gordonbanks.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 3:35 PM > To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PDP] Proof of descendancy? > > > First, look up Mary Harris in one of the books like Gary Boyd Roberts' > Royal Descents of 600 Immigrants. If she isn't there, you will have to > do primary research and more likely, your cousin was wrong. > > If she is there, then you have to document his work back to Mary. > You'll start with census information, then before there were censuses, > vital records, land records, wills, etc. You'll need a basic > understanding of how to do American Genealogy to do that. > > On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 08:45, favreoaks@comcast.net wrote: > > Hello, > > I am fairly new to family history research and very new to research on > this branch of my family, so I hope you will forgive what may be a "dumb" > question. > > > > First some background. About 40 years ago my mother was given a family > history by my cousin, her nephew. At the time, I was a young wife and mother > and thought it was interesting but I had no time to indulge in further > explorations or explanations. Now that I am old, I am vitally interested and > would like to know how I should go about authenticating the family history > my cousin compiled. > > The cousin is deceased and there are no sources listed for most of the > information, only occasionally is there reference to a source document. > > > > In the history my cousin states, "Col. Thomas Ligon was born in England > and came to VA abt. 1641. He died in 1675. He married Mary Harris and Mary > is descended from Edward III, King of England, and thus from William the > Conqueror, through Lionel Plantagenet, Duke of Clarence and his daughter > Phllippe, who m. Edward Mortimer, Earl of March, and their daughter > Elizabeth, who m. Sir Henry Percy, (Hotspur of Shakespeare's 'Henry IV'). We > descended through the Percy and later the Harris lines for 12 generations, > etc., etc." > > > > Can anyone tell me how I should proceed? > > Any help or advice will be appreciated, > > Emily Elstrott in Washington State > > > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Hello Gordon, Thanks for the information and the advice. A cursory internet search has turned up many books to research and my local librarian is working with me to see what is available via internet and interlibrary loan. Also, I've looked at some of the LDS Family History microfilms and have found there is much to research. I had no idea! My work is cut out for me. Thanks, again, for replying. Regards, Emily E. > First, look up Mary Harris in one of the books like Gary Boyd Roberts' > Royal Descents of 600 Immigrants. If she isn't there, you will have to > do primary research and more likely, your cousin was wrong. > > If she is there, then you have to document his work back to Mary. > You'll start with census information, then before there were censuses, > vital records, land records, wills, etc. You'll need a basic > understanding of how to do American Genealogy to do that. > > On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 08:45, favreoaks@comcast.net wrote: > > Hello, > > I am fairly new to family history research and very new to research on this > branch of my family, so I hope you will forgive what may be a "dumb" question. > > > > First some background. About 40 years ago my mother was given a family history > by my cousin, her nephew. At the time, I was a young wife and mother and thought > it was interesting but I had no time to indulge in further explorations or > explanations. Now that I am old, I am vitally interested and would like to know > how I should go about authenticating the family history my cousin compiled. > > The cousin is deceased and there are no sources listed for most of the > information, only occasionally is there reference to a source document. > > > > In the history my cousin states, "Col. Thomas Ligon was born in England and > came to VA abt. 1641. He died in 1675. He married Mary Harris and Mary is > descended from Edward III, King of England, and thus from William the Conqueror, > through Lionel Plantagenet, Duke of Clarence and his daughter Phllippe, who m. > Edward Mortimer, Earl of March, and their daughter Elizabeth, who m. Sir Henry > Percy, (Hotspur of Shakespeare's 'Henry IV'). We descended through the Percy and > later the Harris lines for 12 generations, etc., etc." > > > > Can anyone tell me how I should proceed? > > Any help or advice will be appreciated, > > Emily Elstrott in Washington State > > > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Hello Helen, Thanks for all the good advice. I've gone through step one and thanks to my cousin, I've got a running start on step two, but I will get a GOOD genealogy program! Thanks again for your time and the trouble to help me. Regards, Emily E. > Emily, > > There is nothing dumb about your question. > We all had to start somewhere, and five years > ago, I would have asked the same question, as would many others on this > list, I'm sure. > > Step One > For the sake of future generations, start with > yourself, your husband, and children. Acquire > for each: birth certificate, marriage license, and > death certificate. Where possible, add property > deeds. > > Step Two. > Buy a GOOD genealogy program: forget the > freebies My personal favorite is Family Tree Maker, > for I particularly like the amount and type of > information it permits for each person, as well > as the various formats in which one can display > data. > > Step Two. > Work backwards Generation-by-Generation: i.e. > document your grandparents births, marriages, > and deaths before researching your great grandparents. > > Step Three. > Attend a course on construction family trees. > Join local organizations that focus on history. > Join appropriate surname and geographic mail > lists; these may be able to give you specific > guidance, but in worse cases, you will learn a lot > about researching areas where your ancestors lived. > > A Note on Personal Experience with Mail Lists: > When I first got on Internet, seven years ago, I joined > a Rootsweb mail list for my maiden name, and I posted > what little I knew about my grandparents. I didn't even > know my great grandfather's first name. To make a long > story short, the next day, I had a reply from a person who > was writing a book on the surname, and he sent me all > of my father's ancestors back to 1713. > > This did not mean that I had completed my work; but > rather, that it was just beginning, but what a start! Now > I knew the names for which I needed birth certificates, > etc. > > Best wishes for your success, > Helen > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <favreoaks@comcast.net> > To: <PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 11:45 AM > Subject: [PDP] Proof of descendancy? > > > > Hello, > > I am fairly new to family history research and very new to research on > this branch of my family, so I hope you will forgive what may be a "dumb" > question. > > > > First some background. About 40 years ago my mother was given a family > history by my cousin, her nephew. At the time, I was a young wife and mother > and thought it was interesting but I had no time to indulge in further > explorations or explanations. Now that I am old, I am vitally interested and > would like to know how I should go about authenticating the family history > my cousin compiled. > > The cousin is deceased and there are no sources listed for most of the > information, only occasionally is there reference to a source document. > > > > In the history my cousin states, "Col. Thomas Ligon was born in England > and came to VA abt. 1641. He died in 1675. He married Mary Harris and Mary > is descended from Edward III, King of England, and thus from William the > Conqueror, through Lionel Plantagenet, Duke of Clarence and his daughter > Phllippe, who m. Edward Mortimer, Earl of March, and their daughter > Elizabeth, who m. Sir Henry Percy, (Hotspur of Shakespeare's 'Henry IV'). We > descended through the Percy and later the Harris lines for 12 generations, > etc., etc." > > > > Can anyone tell me how I should proceed? > > Any help or advice will be appreciated, > > Emily Elstrott in Washington State > > > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Emily, There is nothing dumb about your question. We all had to start somewhere, and five years ago, I would have asked the same question, as would many others on this list, I'm sure. Step One For the sake of future generations, start with yourself, your husband, and children. Acquire for each: birth certificate, marriage license, and death certificate. Where possible, add property deeds. Step Two. Buy a GOOD genealogy program: forget the freebies My personal favorite is Family Tree Maker, for I particularly like the amount and type of information it permits for each person, as well as the various formats in which one can display data. Step Two. Work backwards Generation-by-Generation: i.e. document your grandparents births, marriages, and deaths before researching your great grandparents. Step Three. Attend a course on construction family trees. Join local organizations that focus on history. Join appropriate surname and geographic mail lists; these may be able to give you specific guidance, but in worse cases, you will learn a lot about researching areas where your ancestors lived. A Note on Personal Experience with Mail Lists: When I first got on Internet, seven years ago, I joined a Rootsweb mail list for my maiden name, and I posted what little I knew about my grandparents. I didn't even know my great grandfather's first name. To make a long story short, the next day, I had a reply from a person who was writing a book on the surname, and he sent me all of my father's ancestors back to 1713. This did not mean that I had completed my work; but rather, that it was just beginning, but what a start! Now I knew the names for which I needed birth certificates, etc. Best wishes for your success, Helen ----- Original Message ----- From: <favreoaks@comcast.net> To: <PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 11:45 AM Subject: [PDP] Proof of descendancy? > Hello, > I am fairly new to family history research and very new to research on this branch of my family, so I hope you will forgive what may be a "dumb" question. > > First some background. About 40 years ago my mother was given a family history by my cousin, her nephew. At the time, I was a young wife and mother and thought it was interesting but I had no time to indulge in further explorations or explanations. Now that I am old, I am vitally interested and would like to know how I should go about authenticating the family history my cousin compiled. > The cousin is deceased and there are no sources listed for most of the information, only occasionally is there reference to a source document. > > In the history my cousin states, "Col. Thomas Ligon was born in England and came to VA abt. 1641. He died in 1675. He married Mary Harris and Mary is descended from Edward III, King of England, and thus from William the Conqueror, through Lionel Plantagenet, Duke of Clarence and his daughter Phllippe, who m. Edward Mortimer, Earl of March, and their daughter Elizabeth, who m. Sir Henry Percy, (Hotspur of Shakespeare's 'Henry IV'). We descended through the Percy and later the Harris lines for 12 generations, etc., etc." > > Can anyone tell me how I should proceed? > Any help or advice will be appreciated, > Emily Elstrott in Washington State > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > >

Don't know about Mary Harris, but Thomas Ligon himself is descended from Edward III: Selected Descendants of Edward III of England 1 King Edward III of England ref #: F229:12 1312 - 1377 -- +Philippa de Hainault ref #: Ä103-34 1314 - 1369 2 Sir John of Gaunt aka: John Plantagenet ref #: PA14:11 1339/40 - 1398/99 ----- +Katherine de Röet aka: Katherine Swynford ref #: (PA14:11) 1350 - 1403 --- 3 Cardinal Henry Beaufort aka: Bishop of Winchester;Lord Chancellor of England ref #: (PA14:11) 1375 - 1447 -------- +Alice FitzAlan ref #: (PA144:12) 1374 - ------ 4 Jane Beaufort aka: Joan Beaufort ref #: (PA144:12) 1391 - ---------- +Sir Edward Stradling ref #: (Ä199A-33) 1389 - 1453 -------- 5 Katherine Stradling ref #: (see notes) ------------- +Morris Dennis ref #: (see notes) ----------- 6 Sir Walter Dennis aka: Knt. ref #: (see notes) ---------------- +Agnes Danvers ref #: (PA114:5) -------------- 7 Sir William Dennis aka: Knt. ref #: (PA114:5) - 1533 ------------------- +Anne Berkeley ref #: PA114:5 ----------------- 8 Eleanor Dennis ref #: (PA114:5) - 1585/86 --------------------- +William Ligon ref #: PA217:3 1512 - 1567 ------------------- 9 Thomas Lygon ref #: PA218:2 1545 - 1603 ------------------------ +Frances Dennis ref #: (PA218:2) - 1625 ---------------------- 10 Thomas Ligon ref #: PA219:1 1577 - 1626 --------------------------- +Elizabeth Pratt ref #: (PA219:1) 1602 - 1631 ------------------------- 11 Lt. Col. Thomas Ligon ref #: (PA219:1) 1623/24 - FWIW; AFAIK; IMHO; YMMV; yadda, yadda, yadda. Regards, Ed Mann mailto:edlmann@earthlink.net Reference shown is only one of possibly several sources for this individual. Not all data shown is necessarily from this source. References: Ä = Weis, _Ancestral_Roots_, 7th ed. AACPW = Roberts & Reitwiesner, _American Ancestors and Cousins of the Princess of Wales_, [page]. AAP = Roberts, _Ancestors_of_American_Presidents_, [page] or [Pres. # : page]. BP1 = _Burke's_Presidential_Families_, 1st ed. [page]. BPci = _Burke's_Peerage_, 101st ed., [page]. BRF = Weir, _Britain's_Royal_Families_, [page]. BxP = _Burke's_Dormant_&_Extinct_Peerages_, [page]. EC1 = Redlich, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol I, [page]. EC2 = Langston & Buck, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II, [page]. EC3 = Buck & Beard, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II, [page]. F = Faris, _Plantagenet_Ancestry_, [page:para]. NK1 = Roberts, _Notable_Kin_Volume_One_, [page]. NK2 = Roberts, _Notable_Kin_Volume_Two_, [page]. O = Hardy, Colonial_Families_of_the_Southern_States_of_America, [pg]. PA = Faris, _Plantagenet_Ancestry_, 2d ed. [page:para]. S = Stuart, _Royalty_for_Commoners_, 2d ed. Caveat lector. W = Weis, _Magna_Charta_Sureties,_1215_, 4th ed. WFT = Broderbund's World Family Tree CD, [vol]:[num] Caveat lector. WMC = Wurt's Magna Charta, [vol]:[page] Caveat lector. ----- Original Message ----- From: <favreoaks@comcast.net> To: <PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 11:45 AM Subject: [PDP] Proof of descendancy? > Hello, > I am fairly new to family history research and very new to research on this branch of my family, so I hope you will forgive what may be a "dumb" question. > > First some background. About 40 years ago my mother was given a family history by my cousin, her nephew. At the time, I was a young wife and mother and thought it was interesting but I had no time to indulge in further explorations or explanations. Now that I am old, I am vitally interested and would like to know how I should go about authenticating the family history my cousin compiled. > The cousin is deceased and there are no sources listed for most of the information, only occasionally is there reference to a source document. > > In the history my cousin states, "Col. Thomas Ligon was born in England and came to VA abt. 1641. He died in 1675. He married Mary Harris and Mary is descended from Edward III, King of England, and thus from William the Conqueror, through Lionel Plantagenet, Duke of Clarence and his daughter Phllippe, who m. Edward Mortimer, Earl of March, and their daughter Elizabeth, who m. Sir Henry Percy, (Hotspur of Shakespeare's 'Henry IV'). We descended through the Percy and later the Harris lines for 12 generations, etc., etc." > > Can anyone tell me how I should proceed? > Any help or advice will be appreciated, > Emily Elstrott in Washington State > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Hello, I am fairly new to family history research and very new to research on this branch of my family, so I hope you will forgive what may be a "dumb" question. First some background. About 40 years ago my mother was given a family history by my cousin, her nephew. At the time, I was a young wife and mother and thought it was interesting but I had no time to indulge in further explorations or explanations. Now that I am old, I am vitally interested and would like to know how I should go about authenticating the family history my cousin compiled. The cousin is deceased and there are no sources listed for most of the information, only occasionally is there reference to a source document. In the history my cousin states, "Col. Thomas Ligon was born in England and came to VA abt. 1641. He died in 1675. He married Mary Harris and Mary is descended from Edward III, King of England, and thus from William the Conqueror, through Lionel Plantagenet, Duke of Clarence and his daughter Phllippe, who m. Edward Mortimer, Earl of March, and their daughter Elizabeth, who m. Sir Henry Percy, (Hotspur of Shakespeare's 'Henry IV'). We descended through the Percy and later the Harris lines for 12 generations, etc., etc." Can anyone tell me how I should proceed? Any help or advice will be appreciated, Emily Elstrott in Washington State

In Gary Boyd Roberts' book 2nd edition pg 204, there is a Mary Harris who married Col Thomas Ligon. The line is traced up through Ligon line to Edward I. -----Original Message----- From: Gordon Banks [mailto:geb@gordonbanks.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 3:35 PM To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PDP] Proof of descendancy? First, look up Mary Harris in one of the books like Gary Boyd Roberts' Royal Descents of 600 Immigrants. If she isn't there, you will have to do primary research and more likely, your cousin was wrong. If she is there, then you have to document his work back to Mary. You'll start with census information, then before there were censuses, vital records, land records, wills, etc. You'll need a basic understanding of how to do American Genealogy to do that. On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 08:45, favreoaks@comcast.net wrote: > Hello, > I am fairly new to family history research and very new to research on this branch of my family, so I hope you will forgive what may be a "dumb" question. > > First some background. About 40 years ago my mother was given a family history by my cousin, her nephew. At the time, I was a young wife and mother and thought it was interesting but I had no time to indulge in further explorations or explanations. Now that I am old, I am vitally interested and would like to know how I should go about authenticating the family history my cousin compiled. > The cousin is deceased and there are no sources listed for most of the information, only occasionally is there reference to a source document. > > In the history my cousin states, "Col. Thomas Ligon was born in England and came to VA abt. 1641. He died in 1675. He married Mary Harris and Mary is descended from Edward III, King of England, and thus from William the Conqueror, through Lionel Plantagenet, Duke of Clarence and his daughter Phllippe, who m. Edward Mortimer, Earl of March, and their daughter Elizabeth, who m. Sir Henry Percy, (Hotspur of Shakespeare's 'Henry IV'). We descended through the Percy and later the Harris lines for 12 generations, etc., etc." > > Can anyone tell me how I should proceed? > Any help or advice will be appreciated, > Emily Elstrott in Washington State > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Guilford" <rguilford@voyager.net> To: <PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 8:03 AM Subject: Re: [PDP] Romeo & Juliet: Are they real? > > On Feb 4, 2004, at 1:25 AM, David Blocher wrote: > > > I was just told that Romeo or Juliet from Shakphre's "Romeo & Juliet" > > play > > was a Plantagenet. Can anyone confirm this? > > > > I always thought that these characters were just Myths, but then again > > Shackspear [spelling] did write a lot of plays on actual people such as > > "Henry V", "Lion in Winter", "MacBeth"; I guess I shouldn't be too > > surprised! > > > > If they are real, then is Hamlet, or Ivanhoe real as well? > > > Doesn't it depend on what you mean by "real?" Even the characters whose > historical reality cannot be challenged, e.g., Richard III, have > received treatment at the hands of the dramatist which has rendered > their lives in a fashion some think "unreal." When I typed "real" I was asking if they truely existed in our reality, even though their histories could have been stretched a bit! i.e. Laura Ingals Wilder was real by meaning she truely existed, but her depictions from the family series "Little House on the Prairie" were pretty much fictious with a few real events composited into the show. Dracula was also real, but he didn't "suck Blood" he dripped it! So the question was if Romeo & Juliet ever existed in our reality? or were the inspired out of a creative imagination? I personally thought that their suicide was a composite of Cleopatra & Marc Antony.

First, look up Mary Harris in one of the books like Gary Boyd Roberts' Royal Descents of 600 Immigrants. If she isn't there, you will have to do primary research and more likely, your cousin was wrong. If she is there, then you have to document his work back to Mary. You'll start with census information, then before there were censuses, vital records, land records, wills, etc. You'll need a basic understanding of how to do American Genealogy to do that. On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 08:45, favreoaks@comcast.net wrote: > Hello, > I am fairly new to family history research and very new to research on this branch of my family, so I hope you will forgive what may be a "dumb" question. > > First some background. About 40 years ago my mother was given a family history by my cousin, her nephew. At the time, I was a young wife and mother and thought it was interesting but I had no time to indulge in further explorations or explanations. Now that I am old, I am vitally interested and would like to know how I should go about authenticating the family history my cousin compiled. > The cousin is deceased and there are no sources listed for most of the information, only occasionally is there reference to a source document. > > In the history my cousin states, "Col. Thomas Ligon was born in England and came to VA abt. 1641. He died in 1675. He married Mary Harris and Mary is descended from Edward III, King of England, and thus from William the Conqueror, through Lionel Plantagenet, Duke of Clarence and his daughter Phllippe, who m. Edward Mortimer, Earl of March, and their daughter Elizabeth, who m. Sir Henry Percy, (Hotspur of Shakespeare's 'Henry IV'). We descended through the Percy and later the Harris lines for 12 generations, etc., etc." > > Can anyone tell me how I should proceed? > Any help or advice will be appreciated, > Emily Elstrott in Washington State > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

They were Italians, not Plantagenets. On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 22:25, David Blocher wrote: > I was just told that Romeo or Juliet from Shakphre's "Romeo & Juliet" play > was a Plantagenet. Can anyone confirm this? > > I always thought that these characters were just Myths, but then again > Shackspear [spelling] did write a lot of plays on actual people such as > "Henry V", "Lion in Winter", "MacBeth"; I guess I shouldn't be too > surprised! > > If they are real, then is Hamlet, or Ivanhoe real as well? > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

----- Original Message ----- From: <SnowBeri@aol.com> To: <PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 6:14 AM Subject: Re: [PDP] Romeo & Juliet: Are they real? > If you read some ancient Greek plays, there is one that two lovers are in the > same predictament. However, instead of poison, the 'fake' is red juice from > berries to simulate a lion attack. It shows you just how old that original > play is...when lions roamed Greece. (Hint: Alexander the Great went on a lion > hunt when he was a boy. OLD play!) Yeah, and I always thought that the ending to Romeo & Juliet was quite parallel to Cleopatra & Marc Antony!

On Feb 4, 2004, at 1:25 AM, David Blocher wrote: > I was just told that Romeo or Juliet from Shakphre's "Romeo & Juliet" > play > was a Plantagenet. Can anyone confirm this? > > I always thought that these characters were just Myths, but then again > Shackspear [spelling] did write a lot of plays on actual people such as > "Henry V", "Lion in Winter", "MacBeth"; I guess I shouldn't be too > surprised! > > If they are real, then is Hamlet, or Ivanhoe real as well? Doesn't it depend on what you mean by "real?" Even the characters whose historical reality cannot be challenged, e.g., Richard III, have received treatment at the hands of the dramatist which has rendered their lives in a fashion some think "unreal." It is fair to assert that there is some unreality in all recordation of historical event, and some, maybe much, reality in well-done fiction. The skills, purpose and integrity of the historian and playwright are central to the issue. On the other hand, given the transience of all reality, it doesn't make much difference. It is satisfying to seek out historical evidence, but I would not spend much time worrying about the pedigree of dramatic characters, as such. The playwrights rarely do. Richard Guilford

Kevin, you might want to get this one. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Guilford [mailto:rguilford@voyager.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 10:04 AM To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PDP] Romeo & Juliet: Are they real? On Feb 4, 2004, at 1:25 AM, David Blocher wrote: > I was just told that Romeo or Juliet from Shakphre's "Romeo & Juliet" > play > was a Plantagenet. Can anyone confirm this? > > I always thought that these characters were just Myths, but then again > Shackspear [spelling] did write a lot of plays on actual people such as > "Henry V", "Lion in Winter", "MacBeth"; I guess I shouldn't be too > surprised! > > If they are real, then is Hamlet, or Ivanhoe real as well? Doesn't it depend on what you mean by "real?" Even the characters whose historical reality cannot be challenged, e.g., Richard III, have received treatment at the hands of the dramatist which has rendered their lives in a fashion some think "unreal." It is fair to assert that there is some unreality in all recordation of historical event, and some, maybe much, reality in well-done fiction. The skills, purpose and integrity of the historian and playwright are central to the issue. On the other hand, given the transience of all reality, it doesn't make much difference. It is satisfying to seek out historical evidence, but I would not spend much time worrying about the pedigree of dramatic characters, as such. The playwrights rarely do. Richard Guilford ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

In a message dated 2/3/2004 11:27:06 PM Mountain Standard Time, dblocher1@verizon.net writes: I was just told that Romeo or Juliet from Shakphre's "Romeo & Juliet" play was a Plantagenet. Can anyone confirm this? I always thought that these characters were just Myths, but then again Shackspear [spelling] did write a lot of plays on actual people such as "Henry V", "Lion in Winter", "MacBeth"; I guess I shouldn't be too surprised! Like so many of Shakespeare's work, the base is from another piece of work. If you read some ancient Greek plays, there is one that two lovers are in the same predictament. However, instead of poison, the 'fake' is red juice from berries to simulate a lion attack. It shows you just how old that original play is...when lions roamed Greece. (Hint: Alexander the Great went on a lion hunt when he was a boy. OLD play!) Affiliated families: Andrews, Appel, Appley, Asbury, Ayres, Bader, Barker, Barnum, Bates, Bauder, Bealy, Bellinger, Bowling, Braunson, Briggs, Brooks, Buckling, Burton, Carr, Carter, Cary, Clark/Clarke, Cordula, Dyer, Ecker, Fell, Finch, Flanery/Flannery, Fox, Frank, Fuller, Gardner, Garrison, Geary, Goodale, Grim, Hager, Hall, Hardendorf, Harman, Harper, Hayes, Henkle, Hickey, Hinkle, Hodgson, Hurless, Jenkins, Kauffman, Keith, Lane, Lunger, Marcy, Marshall, Morris, Pier, Poage, Poole, Raney, Rich, Saltsman, Sawyer, Schenk, Shepard, Simmons, Skeels, Skiff, Slocum, Spencer, Strong, Taylor, Teter, Thomas, Tinkham, Tripp, Vansant, Wagner, Walrath, Wanner, Warner, Whitlam, Whitney, Wilks, Wolford, Wood, Woolever, Wright. http://www.treelines.com http://www.lineage.net Regards, Diane Wolford

I used to live in northern Italy as a teenager, and near Verona is the Castello di Capuletti, "Juliet's Castle." It used to have one of the best restaurants in the area, but I don't know if it still does. The castle was in ruins, by the way. In the city of Verona, there is a lovely stone balcony that is romantically referred to as Juliet's Balcony. We were told that the families Montecchi and Capuletti, were real. I do not know if my spelling of the Italian names is correct, but the phonetic sound is right. Christine Czarnecki My understand ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Jay Becker" <chrisjaybecker@yahoo.com> To: <PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 12:09 AM Subject: Re: [PDP] Romeo & Juliet: Are they real? > > Romeo was supposed to be a Montague, which, in English history, is the same name as Montacute which was a noble family which intermarried a bit amongst the Plantagenets. The Montacute/Montague > family were the Earls of Salisbury, and the intermarried with the Hollands (many of whom who were descendants of Edward I Longshanks) the last Montacute Earl of Salisbury left no male heir and his Earldom passed to his daughter Alice who married Richard Neville who then became Salisbury. THIS Salisbury's son was Richard Neville, Earl Warwick, AKA 'Warwick the Kingmaker' who "made" both Edward VI and Edward IV and whose ambitions were a major cause of the Wars of The Roses. If you are like me, you no doubt have not just Plantagenet blood in your veins, but plenty of Neville, Percy, Beaufort, > Beauchamp, and, yes, Montacute/Montague. > > On the other hand, weren't Romeo and Juliet supposed to be Italian? > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Just wanted to correct one thing. A Lion in Winter was written by James Goldman, not Shakespear. Carly >From: "David Blocher" <dblocher1@verizon.net> >Reply-To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com >To: PLANTAGENET-DESCENDANTS-PROJECT-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [PDP] Romeo & Juliet: Are they real? >Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 22:25:53 -0800 > >I was just told that Romeo or Juliet from Shakphre's "Romeo & Juliet" play >was a Plantagenet. Can anyone confirm this? > >I always thought that these characters were just Myths, but then again >Shackspear [spelling] did write a lot of plays on actual people such as >"Henry V", "Lion in Winter", "MacBeth"; I guess I shouldn't be too >surprised! > >If they are real, then is Hamlet, or Ivanhoe real as well? > > >============================== >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > _________________________________________________________________ High-speed users—be more efficient online with the new MSN Premium Internet Software. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1

Romeo was supposed to be a Montague, which, in English history, is the same name as Montacute which was a noble family which intermarried a bit amongst the Plantagenets. The Montacute/Montague family were the Earls of Salisbury, and the intermarried with the Hollands (many of whom who were descendants of Edward I Longshanks) the last Montacute Earl of Salisbury left no male heir and his Earldom passed to his daughter Alice who married Richard Neville who then became Salisbury. THIS Salisbury's son was Richard Neville, Earl Warwick, AKA 'Warwick the Kingmaker' who "made" both Edward VI and Edward IV and whose ambitions were a major cause of the Wars of The Roses. If you are like me, you no doubt have not just Plantagenet blood in your veins, but plenty of Neville, Percy, Beaufort, Beauchamp, and, yes, Montacute/Montague. On the other hand, weren't Romeo and Juliet supposed to be Italian? --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!