I can see the two sons on the 1880 census and both are in agreement as to where their parents were born. Does the daughter say the same thing? So often, you get different places but these children agree. You might [the LDS have them on film] work backwards through the Phila city directories from about 1850 and that should give you an idea of when John died & when he shows up in the city. As his sons were carpenters and George a master carpenter, then I would guess he was the same. Both the 1830 and 1840 Phila. census entries are a bit crowded on the male side. There is no male old enough to be John on the 1830, so either that is an omission or he was elsewhere and there must have been boarders or older children in the household. The oldest female is 20-30 which fits his wife Ann, bca 1799 & there seems to be a daughter under 5. Also, two males 15-20 in 1830. So born ca 1810-1815. Too old to be Ann's children as she was born 1799/1800. There are two females 10-15 and 15-20, again boarders or could they be family members from England? In the 1840 there are again two males 15-20. I wonder if these males were apprentices if John was indeed a carpenter? At least you can see John is the male 40-50, Ann the female 30-40, then two boys 5-10 one of whom was George and perhaps a son who died or out of the household by 1850, plus females 5-10 & 10-15 most likely daughters who are either dead or married by 1850. You know from the 1850 census that the only child in the household born prior to 1840 was son George as the other two were after that date. Ann was about 45 when her last daughter was born in 1845. It is time consuming but a search of church records for churches in their neighborhood might show christenings. These are at the LDS. I noticed a John and Mary Garrett arrived in Phila from England in 1827. Could she be Mary Ann? There was also a family that arrived in 1803 in July with mother Elizabeth, children ?Milly, Elias, ?Jeremiah, and John. A male John Garrett arrived earlier that year in May. English civil records start in 1837, after they had left the country. Ancestry has some baptisms but there will be a number of John Garretts. If they married in London, you might be in luck as those marriages are on AncestryWorld which is like Ancestry Library Edition and should be at your local library. I think city directories would be the place to start in order to flesh out what you have from the census. Liane