Two cemeteries without on-site offices come to mind: Palmer Cemetery in Kensington and Leverington Cemetery in Roxborough. Gene Stackhouse I hate global warming. It's much too cold! >From: Bert Lazerow <lazer@sandiego.edu> >Reply-To: philly-roots@rootsweb.com >To: PHILLY-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [Phly-Rts] cemeteries-- for profit and nonprofit,and information >charges >Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 12:01:49 -0800 > > Cemeteries may be either nonprofit or for profit, or they may be run >by a public entity (though I am unaware of any of the latter in the >U.S. other than Veterans' cemeteries). > Most cemeteries that are operated by religious organizations are >either separately incorporated nonprofit corporations or are run >under the nonprofit organization that organizes the church. However, >the fact that a cemetery has a religious affiliation does not mean >that it is nonprofit. Many Jewish cemeteries are not the instrument >of a particular congregation. Instead, they are either profit-making >or nonprofit corporations who sell a certain number of lots to >different congregations which they can re-sell to their members as a >fund-raising (as well as a service providing) operation. In >pre-World War II days when these organizations were more in fashion, >burial societies would also buy a group of lots in a cemetery for >their members. > No organization (including a cemetery) is obligated to provide its >information without charge. Most cemeteries do so as a matter of >public relations, but one will find that cooperation likely to >disappear if you arrive with 100 names to check. > The question is whether a charge is reasonable. $20 a search sounds >like quite a lot if the cemetery has a computerized database of >burials, and all they are telling you is the section, row and grave >number, and they are sending you that by e-mail. On the other hand, >people often want to know everything on the cemetery's record about >this decedent, including the name of the person who paid for the >grave, and the cemetery's records may not be computerized and may >involve substantial searching through less-than-ideal indices, as >well as time after something is found to photocopy and mail the copy, >in which case $20 seems much more reasonable. > Can the charge be avoided? I have never had the experience of going >to a cemetery and having the office refuse to look up the location of >a grave. (In some communities, I have gone to a cemetery only to >discover that there is no on-site office, but never in >Philadelphia.) So if the person is not in Philadelphia, perhaps he >can find someone who lives there to make the trip for him and >photograph the stone while he is there. >Bert >Herbert Lazerow >U. of San Diego Law School, 5998 Alcala Park, San Diego CA 92110-2492 >lazer@sandiego.edu, fax 619-260-2230, phone (619)260-4597 > > > > >********* >Visit the threaded archives of this list: >http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS >********* > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >PHILLY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message

We are always interested in brewhouses. You are correct, these are different locations 4th and Market is in Philadelphia city proper. The Northern Liberties were outside the city but in Philadelphia county. Gene Stackhouse Beer: It's not just for breakfast anymore! >From: Nrtennison@aol.com >Reply-To: philly-roots@rootsweb.com >To: philly-roots@rootsweb.com >Subject: [Phly-Rts] 1763, Northern Liberties, near the Barracks: >Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:08:44 EST > >Dear listers, > >I found a news article from The Pennsylvania Gazette, dated 10 Mar 1763 >referring to Northern Liberties, near the Barracks. Valentine Standley and >Septimus Levering erected a large Brew-house. > >In the same article it referrs to STANDLEY'S store at Market-street, at the >corner of Fourth-street. > >Off the top of my head, these are two different locations for this time >frame. Correct? Anyone have anything to contribute to this article? > >Thanks, >Nelson Tennis > > >********* >Visit the threaded archives of this list: >http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS >********* > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >PHILLY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message

One day a few years ago I came home, checked my e-mail and found one entitled "IMPORTANT!" CALL ME IMMEDIATELY" from a fellow gen researcher. It seems the researcher had called a certain cemetery that afternoon which charged an outrageous $25 to look up ONE name and which we had both refused to pay. On this lucky day, the regular secretary was out of the office. Her replacement was an enterprising lad who normally did maintenance at that cemetery. He offered to wave the fee but wanted $20 sent to him in cash to his home. As it happens I had quite a list of people I was looking for at that cemetery and I just wouldn't/couldn't pay $25 each. I quickly called the cemetery and this kid traced one entire branch of my family for me in 20 minutes. I send him his $20 and I know G-d forgives me. Best twenty bucks I ever spent. Merle -----Original Message----- From: onecrazychick@comcast.net To: philly-roots@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [Phly-Rts] Cemetery fees I received information from Mount Moriah without a fee.....all I did was give them the names that I did have with the request that I would like to have all that were buried in the plot with the list of the names I sent them.......and that was a couple of years ago. Barbara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eugene Stackhouse" <genestackhouse@yahoo.com> To: <philly-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [Phly-Rts] Cemetery fees > Cemetery fees differ in Philadelphia. > Ivy Hill and Laurel Hill have no fees for research. > Some years ago, West Laurel Hill charged me $35 for > information on a family plot. Thirty-seven years ago, > before genealogy became so popular, Mount Moriah > charged me $35 for research. Greenmount charges $100. > I worked for a while as a volunteer at Greenwood, K of > P, and we charged $15 or $20. > The Hood Cemetery in Germantown charges $25 through > the Germantown Historical Society. > > Gene Stackhouse > > > Gene Stackhouse: > I hate global warming. It's much too cold! > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Looking for earth-friendly autos? > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ > > > ********* > Visit the threaded archives of this list: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS > ********* > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PHILLY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ********* Visit the threaded archives of this list: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS ********* ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PHILLY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

In a message dated 2/14/2007 2:36:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, phillylorri@comcast.net writes: Joan, they could be living with otillie an Alex Johnson? Thank you Lorri Not that I could find in Philadelphia in 1930. Joan

Gene is right. There are several cemeteries that have a research fee, mostly about $25. The logic seems to be that they are not paid to do genealogy research. (Perhaps they are right, but my logic is that if we weren't interested in honoring the dead, they wouldn't have jobs.) The manager of Mt. Moriah personally went to my family's lot to confirm that there were not any headstones on it--for free--and also gave me quite a bit of information about old cemeteries, including Mt. Moriah. All in all, I have had tremendous luck with cemeteries providing info by phone, mostly without a fee. I have been able to get instant information in the vast majority of cases, rather than write for info then wait for a response. Merle -----Original Message----- From: TCall2004@comcast.net To: philly-roots@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 12:06 PM Subject: [Phly-Rts] Cemeteries Charging for Info The only cemetery I've ever had ask me for money was Mount Moriah. Others I just sent a request with a self-addressed stamped envelope and I got the info back quickly. From: "Diana Quinones" <audianaq@msn.com<mailto:audianaq@msn.com>> >Subject: [Phly-Rts] Mount Peace and Lawnview Cemeteries >Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:33:13 -0600 > >A few days ago, a Mortuary notice in the Phila Inquirer newspaper for one >of my kin showed she was buried in Mount Peace Cemetery. >On the genweb archive board a phone number is given for contact, showing >records are under Lawnview Cemetery. > >So today I called that number to find out if the mother and spouse were >buried there. I was told to send a letter, no email, to their address in >Rockledge PA with $20.00 and they would provide a genealogy report on the >names. > >Is this customary for cemeteries in Phila area? I have never been asked >for a letter and money for others in Chester and Berks Co. My experience >in Berks and Chester has been an answer while on the phone! Or an email >reply within a day....... > >Just wondering? > >Diana in AL ********* Visit the threaded archives of this list: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS ********* ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PHILLY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

I received information from Mount Moriah without a fee.....all I did was give them the names that I did have with the request that I would like to have all that were buried in the plot with the list of the names I sent them.......and that was a couple of years ago. Barbara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eugene Stackhouse" <genestackhouse@yahoo.com> To: <philly-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [Phly-Rts] Cemetery fees > Cemetery fees differ in Philadelphia. > Ivy Hill and Laurel Hill have no fees for research. > Some years ago, West Laurel Hill charged me $35 for > information on a family plot. Thirty-seven years ago, > before genealogy became so popular, Mount Moriah > charged me $35 for research. Greenmount charges $100. > I worked for a while as a volunteer at Greenwood, K of > P, and we charged $15 or $20. > The Hood Cemetery in Germantown charges $25 through > the Germantown Historical Society. > > Gene Stackhouse > > > Gene Stackhouse: > I hate global warming. It's much too cold! > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Looking for earth-friendly autos? > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ > > > ********* > Visit the threaded archives of this list: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS > ********* > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PHILLY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear listers, I found a news article from The Pennsylvania Gazette, dated 10 Mar 1763 referring to Northern Liberties, near the Barracks. Valentine Standley and Septimus Levering erected a large Brew-house. In the same article it referrs to STANDLEY'S store at Market-street, at the corner of Fourth-street. Off the top of my head, these are two different locations for this time frame. Correct? Anyone have anything to contribute to this article? Thanks, Nelson Tennis

Interesting theory. I believe that Ivy Hill had or has hired a person to do genealogical searches. Ivy Hill doesn't charge a fee. Many of the other cemeteries state that the staff is not there for such research but for the other functions of the cemetery so that genealogical searches are not part of the job descriptions. Greenwood was run by volunteers and charged in order to pay the utilities. The status of Greenwood is still uncertain. Gene Stackhouse --- organizr01@aol.com wrote: > Gene is right. There are several cemeteries that > have a research fee, mostly about $25. The logic > seems to be that they are not paid to do genealogy > research. (Perhaps they are right, but my logic is > that if we weren't interested in honoring the dead, > they wouldn't have jobs.) > Gene Stackhouse: I hate global warming. It's much too cold! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091

Another factor to remember is that there was reduced longevity around 1900. Childhood deaths were a big part of this, but I have seen statistics indicating that a majority of children had lost at least one parent by the time they were 21. The death of what we now consider to be young adults, either in childbirth, by TB, or through industrial accidents, was much more common. In the case of my grandparents, who married at 21 and 18 in 1901, the father of neither was alive at the time of the marriage, having died at ages 45 and 60. If both parents were dead and one of the parties to the proposed marriage was less than 21, that person would have needed to hire a lawyer to have a guardian appointed so the guardian could consent to the Philadelphia marriage. It was both easier and much cheaper to take the ferry to Camden. Bert Herbert Lazerow U. of San Diego Law School, 5998 Alcala Park, San Diego CA 92110-2492 lazer@sandiego.edu, fax 619-260-2230, phone (619)260-4597

Joan, they could be living with otillie an Alex Johnson? Thank you Lorri searching- ALLEN-BARNETT-CARROLL-BURNS GEIGER-Veach -GEARIN-KANE-SMITH-MOYLAN DONAHUE ----- Original Message ----- From: <JYoung6180@aol.com> To: <philly-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [Phly-Rts] 1930 census > In a message dated 2/14/2007 10:52:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, > phillylorri@comcast.net writes: > > Hi List, I need help in finding William JOHNSON b. PA > an his wife LILLIAN b Ireland in the 1930 census, most likely > in ward 1 > thank you for any help > Lorri > ------ > Lorri- > > I find several William JOHNSONs in the Phila. census for 1930 with a wife > named Lillain but none were born in PA (MD and VA) and all are listed as > Black. > Do you have any more specific info as to approx. birth year for William > or > Lillian? I find nothing that matches the info you have listed in your > query. > > Joan > > > > ********* > Visit the threaded archives of this list: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS > ********* > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PHILLY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Cemeteries may be either nonprofit or for profit, or they may be run by a public entity (though I am unaware of any of the latter in the U.S. other than Veterans' cemeteries). Most cemeteries that are operated by religious organizations are either separately incorporated nonprofit corporations or are run under the nonprofit organization that organizes the church. However, the fact that a cemetery has a religious affiliation does not mean that it is nonprofit. Many Jewish cemeteries are not the instrument of a particular congregation. Instead, they are either profit-making or nonprofit corporations who sell a certain number of lots to different congregations which they can re-sell to their members as a fund-raising (as well as a service providing) operation. In pre-World War II days when these organizations were more in fashion, burial societies would also buy a group of lots in a cemetery for their members. No organization (including a cemetery) is obligated to provide its information without charge. Most cemeteries do so as a matter of public relations, but one will find that cooperation likely to disappear if you arrive with 100 names to check. The question is whether a charge is reasonable. $20 a search sounds like quite a lot if the cemetery has a computerized database of burials, and all they are telling you is the section, row and grave number, and they are sending you that by e-mail. On the other hand, people often want to know everything on the cemetery's record about this decedent, including the name of the person who paid for the grave, and the cemetery's records may not be computerized and may involve substantial searching through less-than-ideal indices, as well as time after something is found to photocopy and mail the copy, in which case $20 seems much more reasonable. Can the charge be avoided? I have never had the experience of going to a cemetery and having the office refuse to look up the location of a grave. (In some communities, I have gone to a cemetery only to discover that there is no on-site office, but never in Philadelphia.) So if the person is not in Philadelphia, perhaps he can find someone who lives there to make the trip for him and photograph the stone while he is there. Bert Herbert Lazerow U. of San Diego Law School, 5998 Alcala Park, San Diego CA 92110-2492 lazer@sandiego.edu, fax 619-260-2230, phone (619)260-4597

Germantown was the 22nd Ward. The 42nd Ward was Olney. Gene Stackhouse I hate global warming. It's much too cold! >From: Sandy0412@aol.com >Reply-To: philly-roots@rootsweb.com >To: PHILLY-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [Phly-Rts] 1920 census lookup please >Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 10:40:36 EST > >Dear listers, I am looking for the following three Kennedy brothers in >1920. > If they are still in Germantown, they should be found in either Ward 22 >or >Ward 42. If there is anyone who has time to look for them in either 1920 >or >1930 on this snowy day, I would really appreciate the help!!! Sincerely, > >Sandy Lovell > > > >********* >Visit the threaded archives of this list: >http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS >********* > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >PHILLY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In a message dated 2/14/2007 10:52:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, phillylorri@comcast.net writes: Hi List, I need help in finding William JOHNSON b. PA an his wife LILLIAN b Ireland in the 1930 census, most likely in ward 1 thank you for any help Lorri ------ Lorri- I find several William JOHNSONs in the Phila. census for 1930 with a wife named Lillain but none were born in PA (MD and VA) and all are listed as Black. Do you have any more specific info as to approx. birth year for William or Lillian? I find nothing that matches the info you have listed in your query. Joan

Hi List, I need help in finding William JOHNSON b. PA an his wife LILLIAN b Ireland in the 1930 census, most likely in ward 1 thank you for any help Lorri searching- ALLEN-BARNETT-CARROLL-BURNS GEIGER-Veach -GEARIN-KANE-SMITH-MOYLAN DONAHUE

Oops, here they are in the 1900 census: 5647 Chew St. Kennedy, Thomas head born 1849, married 28 years, born Ire, parents born Ire, emig 1868, naturalized, occupation Gardener Johanna, wife, born 1849, had 10 children, 9 survive, born Ire, parents born Ire, emig UN(known?) children born in PA: Richard October 1874 Brklyr, Nellie July 1881 drsmkr, Margaret May 1883 trouster, Johanna May 1885 at home, Maria Sept 1887 school, Mary Jan 1890 school, Thomas May 1892 school. 105 Godfrey St. Kennedy, Dennis born July 1872 PA, parents born Ire, Plumber with wife Mary born April 1872, born PA, parents born Ire. #46 Stenton Avenue Kennedy, Michael born May 1879 PA, parents born Ire, Plumber with wife Mary born June 1877 in PA father born England, mother Ire, had 2 children, 2 survive, John son born Sept 1898, unreadable daughter born 1879. Sandy

Dear listers, I am looking for the following three Kennedy brothers in 1920. If they are still in Germantown, they should be found in either Ward 22 or Ward 42. If there is anyone who has time to look for them in either 1920 or 1930 on this snowy day, I would really appreciate the help!!! Sincerely, Sandy Lovell

In a message dated 2/14/2007 9:58:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, PZysk14@verizon.net writes: and your point is? ---- This thread was going along ok at first -- it is a valid relevant discussion of charges and difficulties encountered in obtaining various records and information...but, please let's keep the discussion on topic and friendly. And, if you have an issue to take up with a poster's comments, please do so privately. Thanks! Joan, admin PHILLY-ROOTS@rootsweb.com

Elkton was still the place to go in the 60's. There was no waiting period between application for the license and the actual marriage. In Philadelphia, it was three days and you had to have blood tests. Pat Ingersoll ===================== From: CHRIS BOYETTE <kookie81143@verizon.net> Date: 2007/02/13 Tue PM 10:34:22 CST To: philly-roots@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Phly-Rts] why elope? That age requirement was still in effect in the late 1950's and early 1960's. Lots of people eloped to Elkton, MD. I had two aunts do that in the late 40's and mid 50's. By the way, when I married in 1964, in Florida, I needed my parents permission as I was 20 at the time. How times have changed. Chris "The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and these are ignorance, superstition and incompetence." : Elbert Hubbard (American editor, publisher and writer, 1856-1915) ********* Visit the threaded archives of this list: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS ********* ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PHILLY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

When I worked Civil Service for the Department of Defense they used my maiden name initial instead of my middle name initial. This caused problems in signing my paychecks before they went to direct deposit. I had to sign checks first name, middle name initial,maiden name initial, last name. Having long first & last names made for some weird signatures to fit it all in.,

and your point is? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eugene Stackhouse" <genestackhouse@yahoo.com> To: <philly-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:04 AM Subject: Re: [Phly-Rts] Mount Peace and Lawnview Cemeteries >I believe that all cemeteries are non-profit. > Being non-profit does not preclude fees for service. > Would you expect the cemetery to give you a grave site > or sell you a grave site? > > --- Diana Quinones <audianaq@msn.com> wrote: > >> Gene at >> > genestackhouse@msn.com<mailto:genestackhouse@msn.com>> >> wrote: >> <Many cemeteries will charge for research. Some >> don't. >> <It all depends on how much money the cemetery has. >> --------------------------------------------------- >> >> But the cemetery is part of Odd Fellows Cem. Co, a >> non-profit organization, per their site: >> > [http://www.cemeteryco.com/<http://www.cemeteryco.com/>]**** >> >> Odd Fellows' Cemetery Co. of Philadelphia >> The Odd Fellows' Cemetery Co. of Philadelphia is a >> non-profit organization, incorporated in 1848 by an >> Act of the Pennsylvania Legislature to provide >> burial space in peaceful surroundings, on a >> non-sectarian basis, in the best interests of our >> lotholders. Today we own and operate three >> professionally-managed cemeteries in the >> Philadelphia, PA area: >> Lawnview Cemetery - Rockledge, PA >> Pine Grove Memorial Park and Cemetery - Warminster, >> PA >> Mount Peace Cemetery - Philadelphia, PA >> >> That is why I had asked! >> >> Diana in AL >> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >From: "Diana Quinones" >> <audianaq@msn.com<mailto:audianaq@msn.com>> >> >Subject: [Phly-Rts] Mount Peace and Lawnview >> Cemeteries >> >Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:33:13 -0600 >> > >> >A few days ago, a Mortuary notice in the Phila >> Inquirer newspaper for one >> >of my kin showed she was buried in Mount Peace >> Cemetery. >> >On the genweb archive board a phone number is >> given for contact, showing >> >records are under Lawnview Cemetery. >> > >> >So today I called that number to find out if the >> mother and spouse were >> >buried there. I was told to send a letter, no >> email, to their address in >> >Rockledge PA with $20.00 and they would provide a >> genealogy report on the >> >names. >> > >> >Is this customary for cemeteries in Phila area? >> I have never been asked >> >for a letter and money for others in Chester and >> Berks Co. My experience >> >in Berks and Chester has been an answer while on >> the phone! Or an email >> >reply within a day....... >> > >> >Just wondering? >> > >> >Diana in AL >> >> >> >> >> ********* >> Visit the threaded archives of this list: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS >> ********* >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email >> to PHILLY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message >> > > > Gene Stackhouse: > I hate global warming. It's much too cold! > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now. > > > ********* > Visit the threaded archives of this list: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS > ********* > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PHILLY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message