Here is some history from the Phila police department. http://www.ppdonline.org/hq_history.php The modern force was started in 1850, Sir Robert Peel died that year in England (b 1788). I don't see that he came to the U.S. - he was a British Prime Minister, 1834-5 then 1841-6, and member of parliament who is considered the father of modern policing. They may have used his principles in forming the Phila force. LIane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Lynch" <onecrazychick@comcast.net> To: <larzemail@yahoo.com>; <philly-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [Phly-Rts] Police > An interesting start would be to do some research on Sir Robert > Peel........he started the first police department I believe in > Philadelphia..........

Folks, Thanks to Jane Hamilton, I have been more closely examining Google's sub search engines, which research material that is not apparently covered by Google's main engine. Hense, I discovered their Patent Search engine. This searches the U.S. Patents! Now in case you never thought of the possibility, likely many of you have someone in your family who came up with ideas they patented. I have at least two who did - distant, but connected. One line is relevant to Philadelphia - the AYRES family who were into the Horse Blanket business. In case you are interested, the URL is: http://www.google.com/patents Vince

I came across an 1877 obituary notice for a CORDELIA MEGEE SHILLINGSFORD. It states that she is buried from her brother Wm. Megee's residence No. 812 Bucknel st. Parents were William and Sarah Megee. Cordelia was born about 1844 and William 1842, I am unable to find them as as family in the 1850 Phila. census. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you, Jane

I will check into the Sir Robert Peel thing as soon as I get a second. I have been busy as my brother's wedding is Saturday.......so give me a few days. ----- Original Message ----- From: <gtdungan@cox.net> To: <philly-roots@rootsweb.com>; <larzemail@yahoo.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 10:00 PM Subject: Re: [Phly-Rts] Police > Hi , > Saw your post today about Philly police and was very interested. I can > share with you some facts about my G-GGandfather George Washington Dungan > who was with the Philly Police Dept. Feb 6, 1850 he was elected town > constable. In Marchg 1853 he was elected town > constable again. In sept, 1854 he was appointed sergeant in the 22d ward > (thats Germantown). In April ,1861 George W Dungan was promoted from > sergeant to Lieutenant > of police,in place of Taylor, who was appointed superintendent of the > Germantown,gas works. at a later date my g-g-grandfather went on to the > gas works. there has to be a connection between the police and the gas > works. > > If you have any info to share please e-mail me. > Thanks in advance > gary Thomas Dungan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > feb 6, 1850 he was elect > ---- larzemail <larzemail@yahoo.com> wrote: > > ============= > I've begun wondering how one became a police officer in the mid-1800s to > late 1800s. One person I've researched was a police officer appointed by > the city due to his military history (per the newspaper); he was a > shoemaker until that time. Another person of interest is a police officer > in Philly, but he shows up as such in only one directory; I suspect he > either was living in another city or emigrated right about that. That led > me to wonder what the qualifications might be, if it was always a > political appointment or a vocation choice, if there was training, if a > person might be a police officer while working another job. > > Where can I learn more, and if you know anything of Philly police in that > time frame, I'm interested--it helps to sort out who's who when the > occupation is better understood. Thanks! > > > --------------------------------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > > > ********* > Visit the threaded archives of this list: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS > ********* > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PHILLY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ********* > Visit the threaded archives of this list: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS > ********* > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PHILLY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi , Saw your post today about Philly police and was very interested. I can share with you some facts about my G-GGandfather George Washington Dungan who was with the Philly Police Dept. Feb 6, 1850 he was elected town constable. In Marchg 1853 he was elected town constable again. In sept, 1854 he was appointed sergeant in the 22d ward (thats Germantown). In April ,1861 George W Dungan was promoted from sergeant to Lieutenant of police,in place of Taylor, who was appointed superintendent of the Germantown,gas works. at a later date my g-g-grandfather went on to the gas works. there has to be a connection between the police and the gas works. If you have any info to share please e-mail me. Thanks in advance gary Thomas Dungan feb 6, 1850 he was elect ---- larzemail <larzemail@yahoo.com> wrote: ============= I've begun wondering how one became a police officer in the mid-1800s to late 1800s. One person I've researched was a police officer appointed by the city due to his military history (per the newspaper); he was a shoemaker until that time. Another person of interest is a police officer in Philly, but he shows up as such in only one directory; I suspect he either was living in another city or emigrated right about that. That led me to wonder what the qualifications might be, if it was always a political appointment or a vocation choice, if there was training, if a person might be a police officer while working another job. Where can I learn more, and if you know anything of Philly police in that time frame, I'm interested--it helps to sort out who's who when the occupation is better understood. Thanks! --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. ********* Visit the threaded archives of this list: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS ********* ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PHILLY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

An interesting start would be to do some research on Sir Robert Peel........he started the first police department I believe in Philadelphia..........seems (if memory serves correct from a policing class I took 4 years ago) was more of an appointment type of thing.........alot of places had night watchmen which was the early version of police officer and another title would be constable..........just a couple names that are predecessors to the police we have today........... Barbara Lynch ----- Original Message ----- From: "larzemail" <larzemail@yahoo.com> To: "Philly-roots" <PHILLY-ROOTS@rootsweb.com>; "PhillyPA" <paphilad@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 4:22 PM Subject: [Phly-Rts] Police > I've begun wondering how one became a police officer in the mid-1800s to > late 1800s. One person I've researched was a police officer appointed by > the city due to his military history (per the newspaper); he was a > shoemaker until that time. Another person of interest is a police officer > in Philly, but he shows up as such in only one directory; I suspect he > either was living in another city or emigrated right about that. That led > me to wonder what the qualifications might be, if it was always a > political appointment or a vocation choice, if there was training, if a > person might be a police officer while working another job. > > Where can I learn more, and if you know anything of Philly police in that > time frame, I'm interested--it helps to sort out who's who when the > occupation is better understood. Thanks! > > > --------------------------------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > > > ********* > Visit the threaded archives of this list: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS > ********* > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PHILLY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I've begun wondering how one became a police officer in the mid-1800s to late 1800s. One person I've researched was a police officer appointed by the city due to his military history (per the newspaper); he was a shoemaker until that time. Another person of interest is a police officer in Philly, but he shows up as such in only one directory; I suspect he either was living in another city or emigrated right about that. That led me to wonder what the qualifications might be, if it was always a political appointment or a vocation choice, if there was training, if a person might be a police officer while working another job. Where can I learn more, and if you know anything of Philly police in that time frame, I'm interested--it helps to sort out who's who when the occupation is better understood. Thanks! --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Two questions in respect to these: 1. If a will is not in the indexes filmed by the LDS, could there still be a will or administration available? I looked up a marriage that indicated a guardian was assigned to a minor, and the note indicated this was done via a will -- however that will is not in the indexes fro 1855 through 1938 under any one of the party's names. 2. Is there any place besides City Hall or the films rented through the LDS that wills and administrations could be viewed? I did a search on HSP's site but didn't see Philly wills & admins; that doesn't mean it isn't there though. Thanks. --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Where can I find marriage records for someone who married in Philadelphia between 1887 and 1910. I'm looking for the Hoffman children Florence A b 1881 Blanche A b 1882 Harry B b 1883 Frank A b 1886 Bertha A b 1888 They are all children of William and Hannah T Hoffman. I know Harry married Bessie Bishop just before 1910. Bertha married Horace Loos about 1907, and Frank married Mae Seligman abt 1928. Does Philadelphia have a URL where a person can find a marriage online? Thank you for any help you can give me. Joan L in FL ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Hi folks! I've scrolled through quite a bit of 1850 looking for Jacob RINK but without success. There may be two of them. The Jacob I seek died in 1859, was living in Ward 9 when he died, and was a police officer. That is all I know of him. Thanks in advance. --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

There is an index (it is not online) of 1885-1916 marriages, and that will provide certificate numbers for each marriage. The index is actually a set of indexes, broken down by alphabet, and it is available at the Philadelphia City Archives (PCA) or may be ordered through the LDS Family History Centers (FHC). The certificates are on a series of films as well, and these are available the same way. One other option is to pay someone to obtain the records by visiting PCA for you, or to order them from City Hall. The last method is one I've not used, but price wise, I would not as all other methods are less expensive. JLutz54950@aol.com wrote: Where can I find marriage records for someone who married in Philadelphia between 1887 and 1910. --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

I would like to thank all those who helped me out with my request. What a great group we have here. I have been trying to identify our great grandmothers maiden name for a very long time and every record we got back had her married name and no clues. The only names we had for years to go on was two surnames our father and uncle "thought" might be her maiden name. Sherwood or Sherlock. Well, thanks to census and some obituaries I have been kindly helped out and the puzzle looks like it may be solved. Still hoping for that document that has the maiden name on , but now I know what name we are looking for. Clara Anderson Bevan was married to Harrison Henry BEVAN b 1858. They had 13 children . I now have 7 of them identified. Descendants of Harrison Henry BEVAN 1 Harrison Henry BEVAN 1858 - 1929 +Clara Anderson 1860 - 1925 Benjamin Franklin BEVAN - 14 Oct 1884 -1925 - our line +Mary Agness GOUNLEY b 1886 daughter of James and Agnes Gounley - Courtland S BEVAN 1888 Henry BEVAN 1880 Bella or Ella BEVAN 1882 Anna BEVAN 1884 Horace BEVAN 1898 - 1899 Rhoda Willis BEVAN 1891 - 1891 It looks like Clara was an Anderson, daughter of Henry ANDERSON and Rhoda W LUDERITZ, daughter of William and Rebecca LUDERITZ., These surnames are far off from what the family was thinking of for Clara's maiden name, but I was sent an obituary for Rhoda Luderitz Anderson's, sister Rosa Luderitz. It seems Rosa married WIlliam SHERLOCK. It nice to know that Clara's maiden name was ANDERSON but great to finally know the family stories had at least some truth in them. There were Sherlocks in the family. Thanks so much to all for helping me over this wall. Kassie ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Hi all, I discovered an online 1890 Philadelphia city directory. But I'm interested in 1901-1909. Does anyone know if any of those years are available online for Philadelphia? Thanks for any suggestions, Rich --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Mary "Molly" C. Kemp Galanaugh Heffernan OAKLEY is in 1910 in Millville, Cumberland County, New Jersey in the census, without any of her kids, and she is in the 1910 Philadelphia census, also - both enumerated in April - with all of her kids under her maiden name. They had wed in 1908-1909! And the couple with kids are in the 1920 in Philadelphia. What think ye? Vince

Folks, I have made a couple of new discoveries on my Mary "Molly" C. KEMP. Now I already knew she had married a Canadian husband, James Joseph GALANAUGH. But I now know he died between 1900 and 1903. Mary then married an unknown HEFFERNAN. Now this spelling is known to be accurate! He lasted no time at all, and excepting for Mary's having two kids by him, she married thirdly, Oakley L. McAFEE... Oakely and Mary are in Cumberland County, NJ in 1910, and are said to have been married 1 year, she having had 5 kids, all of them alive. The kids were: Agnes M. GALANAUGH James Sr. GALANAUGH Joseph F. GALANAUGH Annie HEFFERNAN Mildred HEFFERNAN Does this ring any bells in bell land? Thanks, Vince

That sounds logical, Gene. Vince On 4/21/07, Eugene Stackhouse <genestackhouse@msn.com> wrote: > It is strange how such nonsense gets propogated! > I had an uncle die of the flu and my father remembered it well. No one knew > what caused it. Viruses hadn't been discovered then. Influenza was a > mystery. > > Gene Stackhouse > "24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? I think not."Stephen > Wright > > >From: "Vincent E. Summers" <vsummers@gmail.com> > >Reply-To: philly-roots@rootsweb.com > >To: philly-roots@rootsweb.com > >Subject: [Phly-Rts] Spanish Influenza > >Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 16:06:11 -0400 > > > >The Spanish Influenza... > > > >You can't believe everything you hear, but you can repeat it, > >and present it as a possibility... > > > >I have heard that the No Spitting signs in Philadelphia (or > >you get fined $50) originated because of the SI. > > > >Anyone know if that is true? > > > >It must not have been considered correct to attribute deaths > >to the Spanish Influenza back then. > > > >Vince > > > > > >********* > >Visit the threaded archives of this list: > >http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS > >********* > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >PHILLY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ********* > Visit the threaded archives of this list: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS > ********* > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PHILLY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Actually, there *are* some death certificates prior to 1860,at the City Archives. When looking for what is usually referred to as the "cemetery returns" (from 1803-1860), I stumbled on another collection of filmed cemetery returns for this period. This second group--- and I don't know what it's official name is since it isn't even on the CA's crib sheet--- is just like the cemetery returns for post 1860.. organized by year, month, week (I think), cemetery, with a summary sheet of the burials followed by the death certificates for those burials. It's not indexed anywhere that I know of, so the use I've made out of it has been when I knew or suspected a specific cemetery and date range. I've found dcerts for people listed in the 1803-1860 listing, or having a pre 1860 obit, or for whom I have gotten a burial/death date through another source, like a tombstone or family lore. The images are pretty bad compared to later in the 19th century, in that they can sometimes be just scraps of paper and scribbles, but it's better than nothing. Sorry I can't be more specific about what to call it, how complete it is, or exactly which cabinet it's in. Maybe it's nothing more than the cemetery returns that are supposed to only exist after 1860, but were really being collected earlier, altho rather primitively. jo ----- Original Message ----- From: "larzemail" <larzemail@yahoo.com> To: <philly-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [Phly-Rts] Mortuary Schedule > Thanks Holly, for the RINK mortality schedules, and you're right that there isn't one for 1890. > > I have one ancestor who died in late 1859 in Philly. Philly didn't start the death registrations until 1860, so there was no death cert for him. However, he was located in the mortality schedule which provided all the same info that would have been on the death cert. Another, though she died when there were death certs, I've been unable to find a death cert for, but she was found in the mortality schedules, so I now have her date of death, age at death, cause, etc. Not all states have these, but PA does. You'll find these in the census listings on Ancestry. > > ColumbusGuy <plugnplaycmh@yahoo.com> wrote: > That's a new term to me. What are mortality schedules? And what are their benefits to genealogy? > Thanks > Rich > > Holly Timm wrote: > I don't believe there are any surviving mortality schedules for 1890 but > here are the other two --- Holly Timm > > --------------------------------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > > > ********* > Visit the threaded archives of this list: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS > ********* > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PHILLY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.2/766 - Release Date: 04/18/2007 07:39 AM > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.2/766 - Release Date: 04/18/2007 07:39 AM

I think Philadelphia county or city were the only ones in the state of Pa. who did death records from 1850-1906 as was required by state law enacted in 1850? I checked Dauphin county and according to their records only five people died from 1850-1906. Not until 1906 did the state start enforcing the death record requirement. Nelson I have one ancestor who died in late 1859 in Philly. Philly didn't start the death registrations until 1860, so there was no death cert for him. However, he was located in the mortality schedule which provided all the same info that would have been on the death cert. Another, though she died when there were death certs, I've been unable to find a death cert for, but she was found in the mortality schedules, so I now have her date of death, age at death, cause, etc. Not all states have these, but PA does. You'll find these in the census listings on Ancestry. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Thanks Holly, for the RINK mortality schedules, and you're right that there isn't one for 1890. I have one ancestor who died in late 1859 in Philly. Philly didn't start the death registrations until 1860, so there was no death cert for him. However, he was located in the mortality schedule which provided all the same info that would have been on the death cert. Another, though she died when there were death certs, I've been unable to find a death cert for, but she was found in the mortality schedules, so I now have her date of death, age at death, cause, etc. Not all states have these, but PA does. You'll find these in the census listings on Ancestry. ColumbusGuy <plugnplaycmh@yahoo.com> wrote: That's a new term to me. What are mortality schedules? And what are their benefits to genealogy? Thanks Rich Holly Timm wrote: I don't believe there are any surviving mortality schedules for 1890 but here are the other two --- Holly Timm --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

It is strange how such nonsense gets propogated! I had an uncle die of the flu and my father remembered it well. No one knew what caused it. Viruses hadn't been discovered then. Influenza was a mystery. Gene Stackhouse "24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? I think not."Stephen Wright >From: "Vincent E. Summers" <vsummers@gmail.com> >Reply-To: philly-roots@rootsweb.com >To: philly-roots@rootsweb.com >Subject: [Phly-Rts] Spanish Influenza >Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 16:06:11 -0400 > >The Spanish Influenza... > >You can't believe everything you hear, but you can repeat it, >and present it as a possibility... > >I have heard that the No Spitting signs in Philadelphia (or >you get fined $50) originated because of the SI. > >Anyone know if that is true? > >It must not have been considered correct to attribute deaths >to the Spanish Influenza back then. > >Vince > > >********* >Visit the threaded archives of this list: >http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS >********* > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >PHILLY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message