Vince: Have you looked at Richard N. Juliani's book, "Building Little Italy; Philadelphia's Italians Before Mass Migrations." He has about 6 pages on both the father (Joseph Ceronio) and son (Stephen Ceronio), with a one page entry for Serval, but several mentions for the Hicks family (Catherine, her brother William, and her father also William). Besides some genealogical info, this work helps to place the family in Philadelphia during the events of the American Revolution, their role in the war, and their relationships to Franklin, Willing & Morris, etc. Ken Milano, from an Italian who came with the mass migration, not before it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "lfenimore" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 10:56:00 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Phly-Rts] SERVEL, HICKS, CERONIO Vince, I imagine you have seen 'Provincial Councillors of Pennsylvania...' ? That author claims that Ceronio left in 1793 for Batavia, East Indies [?error for W. Indies, or perhaps he didn't get past the W. Indies on his voyage]. There is quite a bit about Stephen and his father Joseph, too. The only newspaper mention I could bring up on GenealogyBank was a reference to a letter waiting for Stephen at the Philadelphia Post Office in 1782.  It seems one of the earliest mentions on GoogleBooks is his father's letter enquiring if he had arrived [1777]. I wonder if that 1793 city directory entry might have come from his wife - he may well have been gone at that point [to wherever ]but he would still be head of household.  Or, as it seems to have been published by Dobson in early 1793, they would have gathered the information in 1792. Your guess that he might have died in the yellow fever epidemic but not in Philadelphia seems a reasonable assumption since he is not on the Philadelphia list of victims.  He was known to have travelled to the location [Cape Francois] given in Carey's account of the epidemic as having had the fever prior to its arrival in Phila.  He could have died late 1792 or early 1793.  His widow had 3 young sons and remarried a year later [1794] It seems unlikely that the church would have allowed her to remarry without some sort of indication her husband was dead, especially since they were a well-known family in the city and connected to the Morrises. Liane   ********* Visit the threaded archives of this list: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS ********* ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks, Ken - yes I've seen this and typed it out for my notes. On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 8:54 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Vince: > > > > Have you looked at Richard N. Juliani's book, "Building Little Italy; Philadelphia's Italians Before Mass Migrations." He has about 6 pages on both the father (Joseph Ceronio) and son (Stephen Ceronio), with a one page entry for Serval, but several mentions for the Hicks family (Catherine, her brother William, and her father also William). > > > > Besides some genealogical info, this work helps to place the family in Philadelphia during the events of the American Revolution, their role in the war, and their relationships to Franklin, Willing & Morris, etc. > > > > Ken Milano, from an Italian who came with the mass migration, not before it. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "lfenimore" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 10:56:00 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [Phly-Rts] SERVEL, HICKS, CERONIO > > Vince, > > I imagine you have seen 'Provincial Councillors of Pennsylvania...' ? > > That author claims that Ceronio left in 1793 for Batavia, East Indies > [?error for W. Indies, or perhaps he didn't get past the W. Indies on his > voyage]. > > There is quite a bit about Stephen and his father Joseph, too. > > The only newspaper mention I could bring up on GenealogyBank was a reference > to a letter waiting for Stephen at the Philadelphia Post Office in 1782.  It > seems one of the earliest mentions on GoogleBooks is his father's letter > enquiring if he had arrived [1777]. > > I wonder if that 1793 city directory entry might have come from his wife - > he may well have been gone at that point [to wherever ]but he would still be > head of household.  Or, as it seems to have been published by Dobson in > early 1793, they would have gathered the information in 1792. > > Your guess that he might have died in the yellow fever epidemic but not in > Philadelphia seems a reasonable assumption since he is not on the > Philadelphia list of victims.  He was known to have travelled to the > location [Cape Francois] given in Carey's account of the epidemic as having > had the fever prior to its arrival in Phila.  He could have died late 1792 > or early 1793.  His widow had 3 young sons and remarried a year later [1794] > > It seems unlikely that the church would have allowed her to remarry without > some sort of indication her husband was dead, especially since they were a > well-known family in the city and connected to the Morrises. > > Liane > > > > > ********* > Visit the threaded archives of this list: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS > ********* > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ********* > Visit the threaded archives of this list: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS > ********* > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- http://www.ehow.com/members/ds_7b3c7914-50da-4602-ad9f-8e0007b16ff9.html http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/333797/vincent_summers.html

Here's another good source: http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/paharc/timeline/1801/tline13.html Alexa

That link doesn't work. Try this one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_the_Pennsylvania_Hospital Alexa  --- On Sun, 11/22/09, Susan Facciolli <[email protected]> wrote: From: Susan Facciolli <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Phly-Rts] Kirkbride's Hospital or Philadelphia Hospital for the Insane To: [email protected] Date: Sunday, November 22, 2009, 1:16 PM I have found a perfect site to answer your question quite succinctly.   search:http//www.uphs.upenn.edu/paharc/timeline/1801/   This will clarify the confusion between the two names: Pennsylvania Hospital for the Insane and calling it simple Kirkbride.   Your question has led me on to a new trail of Philadelphia history.   Thank you. Sue F. --- On Sat, 11/21/09, Suzanne Matson <[email protected]> wrote: From: Suzanne Matson <[email protected]> Subject: [Phly-Rts] Kirkbride's Hospital or Philadelphia Hospital for the Insane To: "Philly Roots List" <[email protected]> Date: Saturday, November 21, 2009, 6:45 PM I am trying to determine if Kirkbride's Hospital located between Haverford Avenue and Market Street and the Philadelphia Hospital for the Insane are or were the same facility.  The only reference I have found for a location for the Philadelphia Hospital for the Insane is a reference to Byberry.  I am not familiar with Philadelphia and do not know where Byberry is. I am searching for more information on Frank Klemme who died January 1916 in Philadelphia.  Kirk & Nice funeral home listed his place of death as Philadelphia Hospital and his death certificate listed the place of death as Philadelphia Hospital for the Insane.  Explanations and clarifications appreciated. Thanks-- Suzanne C Matson ********* Visit the threaded archives of this list: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS ********* ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message       ********* Visit the threaded archives of this list: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS ********* ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Vince

http://usgwarchives.net/pa/philadelphia/yfever1793.htm At this site there is a list of the dead. Please realize this is only a brief list of a short period of time. Vince On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 11:45 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Can you tell me if there is list of these victims in on the internet? > > Thanks > > > ********* > Visit the threaded archives of this list: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS > ********* > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- http://www.ehow.com/members/ds_7b3c7914-50da-4602-ad9f-8e0007b16ff9.html http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/333797/vincent_summers.html

I imagine you have seen 'Provincial Councillors of Pennsylvania...' ? Ans: I think if it is accessible through general search-engine searches I have accessed it already. I wonder if that 1793 city directory entry might have come from his wife - he may well have been gone at that point [to wherever ]but he would still be head of household.  Or, as it seems to have been published by Dobson in early 1793, they would have gathered the information in 1792. Ans: I haven't looked at the City Directories for 1793 yet. I will check that out. Your guess that he might have died in the yellow fever epidemic but not in Philadelphia seems a reasonable assumption since he is not on the Philadelphia list of victims. Ans: I think that list was only partial so I wouldn't be surprised... It seems unlikely that the church would have allowed her to remarry without some sort of indication her husband was dead, especially since they were a well-known family in the city and connected to the Morrises. Ans: That's what I think, too. Vince

Can you tell me if there is list of these victims in on the internet? Thanks

I have found a perfect site to answer your question quite succinctly.   search:http//www.uphs.upenn.edu/paharc/timeline/1801/   This will clarify the confusion between the two names: Pennsylvania Hospital for the Insane and calling it simple Kirkbride.   Your question has led me on to a new trail of Philadelphia history.   Thank you. Sue F. --- On Sat, 11/21/09, Suzanne Matson <[email protected]> wrote: From: Suzanne Matson <[email protected]> Subject: [Phly-Rts] Kirkbride's Hospital or Philadelphia Hospital for the Insane To: "Philly Roots List" <[email protected]> Date: Saturday, November 21, 2009, 6:45 PM I am trying to determine if Kirkbride's Hospital located between Haverford Avenue and Market Street and the Philadelphia Hospital for the Insane are or were the same facility.  The only reference I have found for a location for the Philadelphia Hospital for the Insane is a reference to Byberry.  I am not familiar with Philadelphia and do not know where Byberry is. I am searching for more information on Frank Klemme who died January 1916 in Philadelphia.  Kirk & Nice funeral home listed his place of death as Philadelphia Hospital and his death certificate listed the place of death as Philadelphia Hospital for the Insane.  Explanations and clarifications appreciated. Thanks-- Suzanne C Matson ********* Visit the threaded archives of this list: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS ********* ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Vince, I imagine you have seen 'Provincial Councillors of Pennsylvania...' ? That author claims that Ceronio left in 1793 for Batavia, East Indies [?error for W. Indies, or perhaps he didn't get past the W. Indies on his voyage]. There is quite a bit about Stephen and his father Joseph, too. The only newspaper mention I could bring up on GenealogyBank was a reference to a letter waiting for Stephen at the Philadelphia Post Office in 1782. It seems one of the earliest mentions on GoogleBooks is his father's letter enquiring if he had arrived [1777]. I wonder if that 1793 city directory entry might have come from his wife - he may well have been gone at that point [to wherever ]but he would still be head of household. Or, as it seems to have been published by Dobson in early 1793, they would have gathered the information in 1792. Your guess that he might have died in the yellow fever epidemic but not in Philadelphia seems a reasonable assumption since he is not on the Philadelphia list of victims. He was known to have travelled to the location [Cape Francois] given in Carey's account of the epidemic as having had the fever prior to its arrival in Phila. He could have died late 1792 or early 1793. His widow had 3 young sons and remarried a year later [1794] It seems unlikely that the church would have allowed her to remarry without some sort of indication her husband was dead, especially since they were a well-known family in the city and connected to the Morrises. Liane

If you go to http://books.google.com/ and put - kirkbride hospital philadelphia - in the search engine, you will find several books on Kirkbride and his hospitals and perhaps be able to narrow down your search. Hope that helps.

Kirkbride and Byberry are not the same. Sndtenterprises Genealogical and Historical Research

Suzanne Byberry was a mental hospital in the far northeast section of Philadelphia off of Roosevelt Blvd. It was not the same as Kirkbrides. Stafford Keer On Nov 21, 2009, at 6:45 PM, Suzanne Matson wrote: > I am trying to determine if Kirkbride's Hospital located between > Haverford Avenue and Market Street and the Philadelphia Hospital for > the Insane are or were the same facility. The only reference I have > found for a location for the Philadelphia Hospital for the Insane is > a reference to Byberry. I am not familiar with Philadelphia and do > not know where Byberry is. > > I am searching for more information on Frank Klemme who died January > 1916 in Philadelphia. Kirk & Nice funeral home listed his place of > death as Philadelphia Hospital and his death certificate listed the > place of death as Philadelphia Hospital for the Insane. > > Explanations and clarifications appreciated. > > Thanks-- > > Suzanne C Matson > > > ********* > Visit the threaded archives of this list: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS > ********* > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Hi Margaret I see that you are emailing from Australia so you may not know that the US census of 1860 was held in June of that year. I don't see your Robert b.1856 or his father b. 1830 in Greenwich. However, in the 1861 census of England, there is a Robert Bishop age 4 born in Philadelphia living with his grandparents in Greenwich Parish of England. John Bishop 70 Sarah wife 65 Thomas Chas son 40, pilot (so also a mariner) Sarah Ellen Milborn dau 40 married Hannah Harkey dau, 34 widow Robert Bishop 4, grandson, born Philadelphia USA Jane Bishop 25 dau single In 1871 census Robert T Bishop is a student living at the Greenwich District Hospital,School and Infirmary. Age 14 and born in Philadelphia. No sign of him in the 1881 census. In the Philadelphia death records, there is a Jane Bishop, wife of Robert Bishop, who died with consumption May 19, 1860 age 29, just weeks before the 1860 census. Possibly a connection ? Where did Robert end up or what else do you know about him ? Hope it helps Rick Hutton ###################### -------Original Message------- From: Margo Date: 11/20/2009 8:46:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Phly-Rts] BISHOP Robert 1856 Hi Listers my first post, Robert BISHOP born c1856 Philadelphia, his father of the same name. Robert senior born 6 December 1830 Brewhouse Lane, Greenwich, England, Mariner. That is the limit of my knowledge. Does anyone have resources to look up as to what happened to the family either census, directories, marriage or deaths? Any help would be appreciated. Regards Margaret

Folks, I am writing a series of articles on the CERONIO brothers and their eventuality. It's not easy, believe you me. It now seems Stephen may have died either just before leaving Philadelphia (due to go 1793 - Yellow Fever?) or just after leaving. Son James made it to the East Indies - Fiji, Australia, and India were his eventualities. But I don't know what happened to Catherine Hicks Ceronio SERVEL or her husband Jacques. He was a physician aboard a French frigate who married Catherine in 1794. At the same church - Swedes Church (Gloria Dei). Would she have divorced and remarried a year later, at the same church? I find that hard to believe. Does anyone have anything whatsoever after 1790 on these surnames? Thanks, Vince

I am trying to determine if Kirkbride's Hospital located between Haverford Avenue and Market Street and the Philadelphia Hospital for the Insane are or were the same facility. The only reference I have found for a location for the Philadelphia Hospital for the Insane is a reference to Byberry. I am not familiar with Philadelphia and do not know where Byberry is. I am searching for more information on Frank Klemme who died January 1916 in Philadelphia. Kirk & Nice funeral home listed his place of death as Philadelphia Hospital and his death certificate listed the place of death as Philadelphia Hospital for the Insane. Explanations and clarifications appreciated. Thanks-- Suzanne C Matson

Hi Listers my first post, Robert BISHOP born c1856 Philadelphia, his father of the same name. Robert senior born 6 December 1830 Brewhouse Lane, Greenwich, England, Mariner. That is the limit of my knowledge. Does anyone have resources to look up as to what happened to the family either census, directories, marriage or deaths? Any help would be appreciated. Regards Margaret

Margaret, If you go to the web address below they have cenus, the actual census pages for the 1900 census, and Philadelphia death records up until 1915. They have a lot more-you can look around and see what you can find. It's a great site with the information entered by volunteers. http://search.labs.familysearch.org Good luck in your search. Carol -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Margo Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 11:46 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Phly-Rts] BISHOP Robert 1856 Hi Listers my first post, Robert BISHOP born c1856 Philadelphia, his father of the same name. Robert senior born 6 December 1830 Brewhouse Lane, Greenwich, England, Mariner. That is the limit of my knowledge. Does anyone have resources to look up as to what happened to the family either census, directories, marriage or deaths? Any help would be appreciated. Regards Margaret ********* Visit the threaded archives of this list: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS ********* ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Willliam Binder (b:1794) was identified as Phila Councilman by Family. Can anyone confirm this with an offical source?

Hi- I have found several references to a William Binder who appeared to be the Treasurer of the Northern Liberties, on the genealogybank site. Do you know when he died? Kate --- On Tue, 11/17/09, Dick James <[email protected]> wrote: From: Dick James <[email protected]> Subject: [Phly-Rts] William Binder Phila Councilman To: [email protected] Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 5:30 PM Willliam Binder (b:1794) was identified as Phila Councilman by Family.  Can anyone confirm this with an offical source? ********* Visit the threaded archives of this list: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PHILLY-ROOTS ********* ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message