Friesenheimer Bürgerbuch von Oskar Poller (1989): Page 73 446: HEILMANN, Veltin (Q13), Einwohner Frie(senheim), im Türkenregister 1584, Vermögen: 165 fl., Steur: 2 bz., 1 kr., Vormund: FRANG, Mattes der Alte 446b: HEILMANN, Jakob (Q27) 3.11.1628 gen. in Urkunde der Schweikard von SICKINGEN (Stadtanzeiger LU. 40.19 1955, S. 2) Q13 = Helmut v. Jan: "Das Türkensteurregister des Kurpfälzischen Oberamtes Neustadt a. d. Haardt von 1584", S. 1066 ff. Ludwigshafen, 1962-64. Q27 = Ergänzungen von Kut Laufer, Förderkreis des Fuseums Friesenheim. Freundliche Grüsse Hanne Thorup Koudal Dänemark

Jim, For what it's worth from "The Palatine Families of New York" by Henry Z. Jones. ANNA OTTILIA, born 26 Aug 1701--sp., Maria Ottilia, w/o Hans Jörg Lutz from Pfeddersheim. She md. as MARIA OTTILIA 20 June 1724 PHILIPP HENRICH HEILMANN, s/o the late SIMON NICLAß HEILMANN at Pfeddersheim. Happy hunting Dave Rinsem HEILMANJH@aol.com wrote: >New to the list and have been searching for my 7th G-Grandfather Johannes >Heilman. Born about 1716 somewhere in the German area and died in York County, >PA 1787. Know nothing of his German origins or if he was a Palatine. > >Any information would be helpful, > >Jim >FL > > > >

Bob, Thanks for replying. Unkenbach is small (1910 pop.364 with no post office or train), but it shows up on Mapquest if you zoom-in to small enough scale. It is about 20 km. SW from Bad Kreuznach. I took the town name directly from the GRIMM's emigration document which I am fortunate enough to have the original. Thanks for the tip regarding spelling: Cappel vs. Cassel. I will look for that while searching. Howard -------------- Original message -------------- From: bob gillis <robertgillis@verizon.net> > handkcappel@comcast.net wrote: > > >GRIMM, Adam Henry(b.1790) and Elizabeth(b.1792) plus 7 children emigrated from > >village of Unkenbach in1833, and, by way of LeHarve and New York, settled in > rural > >Oswego Co. NY. I have many good sources to document this, but would like to > >learn more about ancestry in Germany. Elizabeth's name was MICHEL. > > > > Unkenbach is till a good place name per Geo@genealogy.net but the FHL > has only civil registration from 1818. I cannot find it on either of my > large sclae GErman maps. From the lat and long it si very close to > Kircheim Bolandeden whcih may be where the churh was. > > The only Adam Herinrich Grimm in FamilySearch was of Altleiningen whose > wife was Juliana. There is a submitter in th AF entry but it is an old, > over 15years, submittal. > > What are your sources that show he came from Unkenbach? > > > > >CAPPEL, Abraham(b.1799) and Catherine(b.1803) plus 7 children immigrated to > >Port Washington, Ohio, in 1850 from Ulmet, Germany. I don't know their travel > >details, but again, would like to learn more of German ancestry. It was > Catherine APPEL. > > > Just last week there was a query on the list about a Cassel family from > the Pfalz to Port Washington. Search the list archives for Port > Washington for the inquirer and the thread. > > There is no Abraham Cappel in FS but thre are Abraham Cassels born > sabout 1799 . check you soures for the spelling. The German ß or > Gothic S might be confused with a Roman p. > > bob gillis > > > ********* > Information for list members: > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/PFALZ.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PFALZ-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of > the message

handkcappel@comcast.net wrote: >GRIMM, Adam Henry(b.1790) and Elizabeth(b.1792) plus 7 children emigrated from >village of Unkenbach in1833, and, by way of LeHarve and New York, settled in rural >Oswego Co. NY. I have many good sources to document this, but would like to >learn more about ancestry in Germany. Elizabeth's name was MICHEL. > Unkenbach is till a good place name per Geo@genealogy.net but the FHL has only civil registration from 1818. I cannot find it on either of my large sclae GErman maps. From the lat and long it si very close to Kircheim Bolandeden whcih may be where the churh was. The only Adam Herinrich Grimm in FamilySearch was of Altleiningen whose wife was Juliana. There is a submitter in th AF entry but it is an old, over 15years, submittal. What are your sources that show he came from Unkenbach? > >CAPPEL, Abraham(b.1799) and Catherine(b.1803) plus 7 children immigrated to >Port Washington, Ohio, in 1850 from Ulmet, Germany. I don't know their travel >details, but again, would like to learn more of German ancestry. It was Catherine APPEL. > Just last week there was a query on the list about a Cassel family from the Pfalz to Port Washington. Search the list archives for Port Washington for the inquirer and the thread. There is no Abraham Cappel in FS but thre are Abraham Cassels born sabout 1799 . check you soures for the spelling. The German ß or Gothic S might be confused with a Roman p. bob gillis

Bob and All, Thanks for your suggestions re early Kassels to PA. Originial immirgants were Johannes Kassel (1639-1691) with sibs Arnold, Elizabeth, Peter (my line), Mary, and Sarah aboard ship "Jeffries" in first wave of Palatinates arriving in Philadelphia in 20 Nov 1687. Father, Yellis (1590-1681), remained in Germany but three brother of Johannes came later. Johannes was a signer of original charter for Germantown and came to the colony after Penn's missionary trip to Kriegsheim and Worms. Penn's notes say he went to Kassel home after speaking one night and told them of free land in PA which promped Johannes to come. The Kassel family is mentioned in three of Penn's dissertations of which I have copies. The problem is that I cannot get further back than Yellis, the father. I have tried the LDS site and other but all go to Yellis and stop. Thought some good German might see these notes and voluntarily try to assist on the German side. Should anyone come across anything on Kassel, would appreciate you letting me know. Regards, Bryce bob gillis <robertgillis@verizon.net> wrote: Bryce Castle wrote: >Anyone who can help me with my ancestors from Pfalz, Palatinate, Kreigsheim surname Kassel would be appreciated. They were of the Reformed Church in Kreigsheim and were between there and Worms continuously to avoid persecution. First to Pennsylvania was Johannes Kassel and 5 sibs. Any records prior to departure from Germany would be great. > I think the correct name of the village is Kriegsheim. Geo has nothing for Kreigsheim. And per geo@genealogy.net Kriegsheim is now part of Monsheim so earlier records may be under that town. The Monsheim Evangelical records go back to 1619. do a Google search on Monsheim and you will find a number of links. some of which may give you an insight on your people. When did Johannes and the brothers come to America? Where did they settle? What were the brothers' and the wives' names? a Place search of the FHL comes up with a Kriegsheim in Hesse ( the FL catalogue is as of 1914 AIR) The Evangelical records start in 1830. This may not be the same village as the one in the Pfalz. Geo comes up with only one Kriegsheim. the FS records with estimated pre 1700 dates are AF and IGI submitted records which have not been checked and are of dubious validity. bob gillis ********* Information for list members: http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/PFALZ.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PFALZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.

GRIMM, Adam Henry(b.1790) and Elizabeth(b.1792) plus 7 children emigrated from village of Unkenbach in1833, and, by way of LeHarve and New York, settled in rural Oswego Co. NY. I have many good sources to document this, but would like to learn more about ancestry in Germany. Elizabeth's name was MICHEL. CAPPEL, Abraham(b.1799) and Catherine(b.1803) plus 7 children immigrated to Port Washington, Ohio, in 1850 from Ulmet, Germany. I don't know their travel details, but again, would like to learn more of German ancestry. It was Catherine APPEL. Howard

Hello, Do you have any information regarding a KASSEL or KESSEL (or variant spelling of the surname) whose given name was George (born ca 1800+/- or earlier) who married a Jane BAKER. Jane BAKER KESSEL of German heritage, born in 1802, died in 1855 in Jackson Co., WV at age 53. I have not been able to find a George *KESSEL* in the area of Jackson Co., WV, with the exception of a George who married a Delilah nee CASTO. I have always thought that George, the *KESSEL* of my focus, may have migrated from PA or even lived there Do you have any KASSEL in your database that may have connections to either of the above named persons? Bette > Anyone who can help me with my ancestors from Pfalz, Patatinate, > Kreigsheim surname Kassel would be appreciated. They were of the Reformed > Church in Kreigsheim and were between there and Worms continuously to > avoid persecution. First to Pennsylvania was Johannes Kassel and 5 sibs. > Any records prior to departure from Germany would be great. > Thx, > Bryce Castle bwencas@yahoo.com

Karla Nurnberg wrote: > We are looking for a Margaretha, who was supposedly born in Griesheim or she lived there around 1795. Later, she was in Ebertsheim in 1818, when she married Theodor Christian JOST. He was born in Ebertsheim 8 May 1785, but his father was from Laumersheim. > What is your source for her birth place and this marriage? His birth is on FS but no marriage. Are you looking for Margaretha's birth record, her parents or where she is buried? The FHL has records for several Griesheims, in Hesse, in Hessen-Nassau and two in Alsace. Send a message to geo@genealogy.net , no subject and a mesage, one per line, of the town names and you will get info on the locations by return mail. bob gillis

Bryce Castle wrote: >Anyone who can help me with my ancestors from Pfalz, Palatinate, Kreigsheim surname Kassel would be appreciated. They were of the Reformed Church in Kreigsheim and were between there and Worms continuously to avoid persecution. First to Pennsylvania was Johannes Kassel and 5 sibs. Any records prior to departure from Germany would be great. > I think the correct name of the village is Kriegsheim. Geo has nothing for Kreigsheim. And per geo@genealogy.net Kriegsheim is now part of Monsheim so earlier records may be under that town. The Monsheim Evangelical records go back to 1619. do a Google search on Monsheim and you will find a number of links. some of which may give you an insight on your people. When did Johannes and the brothers come to America? Where did they settle? What were the brothers' and the wives' names? a Place search of the FHL comes up with a Kriegsheim in Hesse ( the FL catalogue is as of 1914 AIR) The Evangelical records start in 1830. This may not be the same village as the one in the Pfalz. Geo comes up with only one Kriegsheim. the FS records with estimated pre 1700 dates are AF and IGI submitted records which have not been checked and are of dubious validity. bob gillis

In a message dated 2/2/2007 10:01:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, bwencas@yahoo.com writes: Anyone who can help me with my ancestors from Pfalz, Patatinate, Kreigsheim surname Kassel would be appreciated. They were of the Reformed Church in Kreigsheim and were between there and Worms continuously to avoid persecution. First to Pennsylvania was Johannes Kassel and 5 sibs. Any records prior to departure from Germany would be great. Thx, Bryce Castle bwencas@yahoo.com HI Bryce, Have you done a search on the Mormon site? That's: _www.Familysearch.org_ (http://www.familysearch.org/) I found the following at this site.... Johannes CASSELL b. 1639 Kriegsheim Palatinate Pfalz Germany d. April, 1671 Germantown , PA Going to the Mormon site and perhaps you can learn more of this person. I hope this is some help for you. Margaret

Dear Listers, We are looking for a Margaretha, who was supposedly born in Griesheim or she lived there around 1795. Later, she was in Ebertsheim in 1818, when she married Theodor Christian JOST. He was born in Ebertsheim 8 May 1785, but his father was from Laumersheim. Thank you for any help in finding more information on these people. Karla --------------------------------- Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

Anyone who can help me with my ancestors from Pfalz, Patatinate, Kreigsheim surname Kassel would be appreciated. They were of the Reformed Church in Kreigsheim and were between there and Worms continuously to avoid persecution. First to Pennsylvania was Johannes Kassel and 5 sibs. Any records prior to departure from Germany would be great. Thx, Bryce Castle bwencas@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

Bob, if you are defining "evidence" as primary church or civil rec for Johannes ZEH in Oppenhiem, you are correct. I only have Henry Jones bk citing he was "of Oppenheim"' I have not seen or searched any Oppenheim or Alzey documents. Nor have I seen any primary rec from the Hudson Camps, Schoharie... All my info comes from authors a la Simmendiger, MacWelty, Jones, Kocherthal, Knittle, Barker... I have not found him on any ship lists from London to NY or any dock listings of his arr at NY. I hear your critique of my notes and do not disagree. My notes are a carry over from many yrs of hard copies, PAF and the current version of FTM. Did I ans everything? And your suggestions for validating my weakly supported line? Thanks for your interest. Hal McCawley 4178 Pindar Way, Oceanside, CA 92056 760.941.4716 ----- Original Message ----- From: "bob gillis" <robertgillis@verizon.net> To: "PFALZ" <PFALZ@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:19 PM Subject: Re: [Pfalz] Oppenheim Church Records > Hal McCawley wrote: > > I would appreciate your thoughts. > Best, > Hal McCawley > >> Thanks Bob for your interest. Please find below my eldest fam sheet >> and notes for my Johannes ZEH fam. >> I believe they were in the Alzey/Oppenheim area bef 1700, came down >> the Rhine with the 1710 Palatinates, appear on sporadic lists in >> Holland, London, NYC, the camps along the Hudson, and settled at >> Schoharie. While most of the fam stayed in Schoharie area, his son >> (my gf) George went on to Tolpehochen Cr in present day Lebanon Co, PA >> in the 1720s, then on to Hardy Co, WV by 1750 where they changed their >> name to SEE. > > > I cannot see that your have any evidence that your ancestor Johannes Zee > lived or was born in Oppenheim. Much of your information comes from > other researchers and does not show their sources. I cannot tell what > source covers what event. > > Apparently you are using PAF. I suggest that you get a genealogy > program such as Legac, TMG, Rootsmagic or even a late version of FTM > that allows you to enter Events/Tags, such as emigration and immigration > for other than BMDBs and allows you to cite sources for events and not > just have them as notes for a person. > > Have you found a source that tells when Johannes entered America? > > Se other notes embedded. > >> >> Descendants of Johannes ZEH >> 1 Johannes Zeh 1672 - 1750 b: 1672 in Oppenheim, Palatinate, Germany >> d: Bef. >> 07 Jul 1750 in Schoharie, NY >> >> .. +Anna Magdalena 1672 - 1750 b: 1672 in Germany d: 07 Jul 1750 in >> Weiserdorf, Schoharie, NY m: 1693 in Oppenheim, Rudelsheim, Germany >> >> .......... 2 Johan George See 1690 - 1751 b: Bef. 1690 in [My gf] >> Oppenheim, Palatinate, Germany d: 1751 in Hardy, VA not WV. > > > You should enter places as they were when the event occurred > >> >> >> .............. Margaret Tschudi 1690 - 1757 b: Abt. 1690 in Frenkendorf, >> Basel, Switz d: 1757 in Hardy, WV m: Abt. 1709 in NY? >> >> .......... 2 Johannes Gerhardt Zeh 1703/04 - 1710 b: 17 Feb 1703/04 in >> Ruhlsheim, Germany d: Bef. 1710 > > > His name would be Johan Gerhardt Zeh Johannes is equivalent to Johan > Johan > >> >> >> .......... 2 Ignatius Zeh 1706 - 1710 b: 14 Aug 1706 in >> Rudelsheim,Germany >> d: Bef. 1710 >> >> .......... 2 Johannes Petrus Zeh 1708/09 - 1710 b: 09 Jan 1708/09 in >> Rudlehiem, Germany d: Bef. 1710 >> >> .......... 2 Johan Adam Zeh 1710 - 1771 b: 29 Sep 1710 in West Camp, >> Ulster, >> NY d: 15 Dec 1771 in Schoharie, Schoharie, NY >> >> .............. +Anna Meier 1726 - b: 1726 m: 16 Aug 1750 in St. Paul Luth >> Ch, Schoharie, NY >> >> .......... 2 Christian Zeh 1716 - 1763 b: Abt. 1716 in Schoharie, NY >> d: 13 >> Sep 1763 in Schoharie, NY >> >> .............. +Anna Sophia Lawyer 1713/14 - 1759 b: 12 Feb 1713/14 d: 22 >> Apr 1759 in Schoharie, NY m: 05 Apr 1750 in St Pauls Luth Ch, Schoharie, >> Schoharie, NY >> >> .......... 2 Johannes Zeh 1717 - 1748 b: Abt. 1717 in Schoharie, >> Schoharie, >> NY d: Abt. 1748 in Schoharie, Schoharie, NY >> >> .............. +Anna Catharina Bellinger 1720 - 1751 b: Abt. 1720 in >> Schoharie, NY d: Apr 1751 in Schoharie, NY m: 03 Mar 1737/38 in Schoharie >> Ref Ch, Schoharie, NY >> >> .......... *2nd Wife of Johannes Zeh: >> >> .............. +Maria Elizabeth Bellinger 1713 - b: Abt. 1713 in NY m: >> Aft. >> 31 Mar 1751 in Schoharie, NY >> >> .......... 2 Maria Margareths Zeh 1718 - b: Abt. 1718 in Schohaire, >> Schoharie, NY >> >> .............. +Marcus Bellinger 1682 - 1746 b: Abt. 1682 in Germany >> d: Bef. >> 20 May 1746 m: 11 Oct 1737 in Loonenburg Ch, Schoharie, Schoharie, NY >> >> .......... 2 Maria Barbara Zeh 1720 - b: Abt. 1720 in Schoharie, >> Schoharie, >> NY >> >> .............. +Frederick Carl Schell 1715 - 1798 b: Abt. 1715 in >> Bissinger, >> Wirdebergerlant, Germany d: 19 Jan 1798 m: 27 Dec 1738 in Schoharie >> Ref Ch, >> Schoharie, NY >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Footnotes for Johannes ZEH: >> !ANCESTOR CHART: Recd from Betty Jane See James dated 3 Feb 1992. >> >> !ANCESTOR SHEET & FAMILY SHEETS: Recd 4 Aug 1992 from descendant James >> Nugen, 20350 Hole-in-One #115, Redding, Ca 96002. Cites Johannes >> living in >> St. Catherine's, France on 2 June 1709 with 3 children and in 1717 >> living in >> Weisersdorf in Schoharie, NY with 4 children. >> >> "LONDON CHURCH BOOKS AND THE GERMAN EMIGRATION OF 1709." I find no >> mention >> of the name ZEH, any spelling. by JOHN P. DERN . 1/07 "akstaub" >> <akstaub@comcast.net <mailto:akstaub@comcast.net>> >> >> Hunter Subsistence Lists starting with >> 1 July 1710 is the first I find Johannes Zeh listed. There he owes >> for 3 >> adults, himself and ?(not listed). >> 4th Oct 1710 he owes for1 adult and 1 child. >> By "ye One and Thirieth" of December (note:the 31st) he either moved >> or was >> moved to the Mannor Livingston and he was assessed for 3 adults and 1 >> child. >> They are evidently not in order because the next notation is dated >> 25 Dec 1710 and he was assessed for 3 adults and 2 children. >> 24 June 1711 still at Livingston, assessed for 3 adults and one child. >> 29 Sept 1711 assessed 3 and 1. >> 24 Dec 1711, > same 3 & 1. >> There are four more entries and they stop at 13 Sept 1712. All are >> for 3 >> adults and 1 child. 1/07 "akstaub" <akstaub@comcast.net >> <mailto:akstaub@comcast.net>> >> >> Simmendinger Register. It states only the following: " ZEH, >> JOHANNES (6) >> and MAGDALENA with 4 children." [Note: the numeral 6 following the >> name indicates Johannes was found at the camp >> "NEW STUTTGART". 1/07 "akstaub" <akstaub@comcast.net >> <mailto:akstaub@comcast.net>>] >> >> !Book of Names" by Lou MacWelty 1969 @ P-72 lists Johannes ZEHE on >> Hunters >> List @ East Camp as "Soldiers in Canadian Exposition of 1711", >> P-75/100 has >> 4 lists totaling 6520 names of Palatines in London in 1709 with List 3 >> P-101 >> dated 2 Jun 1709 at St Catherines has John ZEG, h&w, age 42, Catholic >> with 3 >> sons aged 1, 6, & 1/2 ( it is believed the 1/2 s/b 11). >> <http://www.fortklock.com/names1709thirdlist.htm> >> >> !"The Palatine Families of NY" by Hank Jones 1985. P-1126/9 lists >> history of >> Johannes ZEHE (Hunters List # 838), wife Magdalena & 9 children from >> Oppenheim, Platinate,Germany, 1710 Immigration, Schoharie, NY on down >> to his >> death 7 Jul 1751. One of the 9 is listed as 'iv, "A Child" bapt 2 Oct >> 1742 >> (Schoharie Ref. Chbk.) This "child" may have been Adam, a s/o >> Johannes, who >> md. Margaretha Eckhardt 1 Mar 1767 (Schoharie Luth Chbk) (HJ)' >> >> !"More Palatine Families" by Henry Z Jones 1991. P-410 states Johannes >> SECH >> was a Palatine from Popery when he was admitted to the Lord's Supper in >> Protestant Communion at the Lutheran Church at Savoy in London shortly >> after >> 9 Oct 1709. >> >> !"The Kocherthal Records" by J Christian Krahmer Oct 1926. P-17 Lists >> Johannes and Anna Magdalena ZECH at 29 Sep 1710 bapt of son Johan Adam in >> NY. P-72 lists Johannes ZEHE on Gov Hunters 1711 Ration lists at East >> Camp. >> >> !"Early Eighteenth Century Palatine Emigration" by W A Knittle. P-252 >> lists >> Hans Pieter SOUS and Johannes SOUS with Vrou among 2nd Palatine Party >> sailing on 23 May 1709 from Holland to London. P-291 has NY Substance >> Lists >> with Johannes ZEHE listed in 1710 with 3 over 10 yrs age and 0 under, >> and in >> 1712 with 3 over and 1 under 10 yrs age. P-299 shows Simmendinger >> Register >> with Johannes ZEH ca 1717 with wife Magdalena and 4 children in >> New-Stuttgardt (Weiserdorf), Schoharie Valley, NY. P-203 has story of >> Magdalena ZEH as self appointed captain of 1715 Schoharie Uprising. >> >> !PEDIGREE: P-325 of "Early Families of Schoharie Co. NY" by Wm Barker >> 1985 >> (unpublished) lists 4 generations of descendants citing Hank Jones' >> books. >> >> PEDIGREE: Rec 4/2002 from descendant John ZEH <JohnZeh1@mindspring.com >> <mailto:JohnZeh1@mindspring.com>> > > > > > ********* > Information for list members: > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/PFALZ.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PFALZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.19/663 - Release Date: 2/1/2007 > 2:28 PM > >

I sent 4 of the places in hal's FGS to ggeo@genealogy .netand got back Prefix: Rudelsheim Not in FHL Catlogue ( no matches ) Prefix: Ruhlsheim Not in FHL Catlogue ( no matches ) Prefix: Rudlehiem Not in FHL Catlogue ( no matches ) So they are not in present day Germany and I think these name are not good bob gillis FRenekendorf in Canton Basel, Switzerland is good. bob gillis

Hal McCawley wrote: I would appreciate your thoughts. Best, Hal McCawley > Thanks Bob for your interest. Please find below my eldest fam sheet > and notes for my Johannes ZEH fam. > I believe they were in the Alzey/Oppenheim area bef 1700, came down > the Rhine with the 1710 Palatinates, appear on sporadic lists in > Holland, London, NYC, the camps along the Hudson, and settled at > Schoharie. While most of the fam stayed in Schoharie area, his son > (my gf) George went on to Tolpehochen Cr in present day Lebanon Co, PA > in the 1720s, then on to Hardy Co, WV by 1750 where they changed their > name to SEE. I cannot see that your have any evidence that your ancestor Johannes Zee lived or was born in Oppenheim. Much of your information comes from other researchers and does not show their sources. I cannot tell what source covers what event. Apparently you are using PAF. I suggest that you get a genealogy program such as Legac, TMG, Rootsmagic or even a late version of FTM that allows you to enter Events/Tags, such as emigration and immigration for other than BMDBs and allows you to cite sources for events and not just have them as notes for a person. Have you found a source that tells when Johannes entered America? Se other notes embedded. > > Descendants of Johannes ZEH > 1 Johannes Zeh 1672 - 1750 b: 1672 in Oppenheim, Palatinate, Germany > d: Bef. > 07 Jul 1750 in Schoharie, NY > > .. +Anna Magdalena 1672 - 1750 b: 1672 in Germany d: 07 Jul 1750 in > Weiserdorf, Schoharie, NY m: 1693 in Oppenheim, Rudelsheim, Germany > > .......... 2 Johan George See 1690 - 1751 b: Bef. 1690 in [My gf] > Oppenheim, Palatinate, Germany d: 1751 in Hardy, VA not WV. You should enter places as they were when the event occurred > > > .............. Margaret Tschudi 1690 - 1757 b: Abt. 1690 in Frenkendorf, > Basel, Switz d: 1757 in Hardy, WV m: Abt. 1709 in NY? > > .......... 2 Johannes Gerhardt Zeh 1703/04 - 1710 b: 17 Feb 1703/04 in > Ruhlsheim, Germany d: Bef. 1710 His name would be Johan Gerhardt Zeh Johannes is equivalent to Johan Johan > > > .......... 2 Ignatius Zeh 1706 - 1710 b: 14 Aug 1706 in > Rudelsheim,Germany > d: Bef. 1710 > > .......... 2 Johannes Petrus Zeh 1708/09 - 1710 b: 09 Jan 1708/09 in > Rudlehiem, Germany d: Bef. 1710 > > .......... 2 Johan Adam Zeh 1710 - 1771 b: 29 Sep 1710 in West Camp, > Ulster, > NY d: 15 Dec 1771 in Schoharie, Schoharie, NY > > .............. +Anna Meier 1726 - b: 1726 m: 16 Aug 1750 in St. Paul Luth > Ch, Schoharie, NY > > .......... 2 Christian Zeh 1716 - 1763 b: Abt. 1716 in Schoharie, NY > d: 13 > Sep 1763 in Schoharie, NY > > .............. +Anna Sophia Lawyer 1713/14 - 1759 b: 12 Feb 1713/14 d: 22 > Apr 1759 in Schoharie, NY m: 05 Apr 1750 in St Pauls Luth Ch, Schoharie, > Schoharie, NY > > .......... 2 Johannes Zeh 1717 - 1748 b: Abt. 1717 in Schoharie, > Schoharie, > NY d: Abt. 1748 in Schoharie, Schoharie, NY > > .............. +Anna Catharina Bellinger 1720 - 1751 b: Abt. 1720 in > Schoharie, NY d: Apr 1751 in Schoharie, NY m: 03 Mar 1737/38 in Schoharie > Ref Ch, Schoharie, NY > > .......... *2nd Wife of Johannes Zeh: > > .............. +Maria Elizabeth Bellinger 1713 - b: Abt. 1713 in NY m: > Aft. > 31 Mar 1751 in Schoharie, NY > > .......... 2 Maria Margareths Zeh 1718 - b: Abt. 1718 in Schohaire, > Schoharie, NY > > .............. +Marcus Bellinger 1682 - 1746 b: Abt. 1682 in Germany > d: Bef. > 20 May 1746 m: 11 Oct 1737 in Loonenburg Ch, Schoharie, Schoharie, NY > > .......... 2 Maria Barbara Zeh 1720 - b: Abt. 1720 in Schoharie, > Schoharie, > NY > > .............. +Frederick Carl Schell 1715 - 1798 b: Abt. 1715 in > Bissinger, > Wirdebergerlant, Germany d: 19 Jan 1798 m: 27 Dec 1738 in Schoharie > Ref Ch, > Schoharie, NY > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Footnotes for Johannes ZEH: > !ANCESTOR CHART: Recd from Betty Jane See James dated 3 Feb 1992. > > !ANCESTOR SHEET & FAMILY SHEETS: Recd 4 Aug 1992 from descendant James > Nugen, 20350 Hole-in-One #115, Redding, Ca 96002. Cites Johannes > living in > St. Catherine's, France on 2 June 1709 with 3 children and in 1717 > living in > Weisersdorf in Schoharie, NY with 4 children. > > "LONDON CHURCH BOOKS AND THE GERMAN EMIGRATION OF 1709." I find no > mention > of the name ZEH, any spelling. by JOHN P. DERN . 1/07 "akstaub" > <akstaub@comcast.net <mailto:akstaub@comcast.net>> > > Hunter Subsistence Lists starting with > 1 July 1710 is the first I find Johannes Zeh listed. There he owes > for 3 > adults, himself and ?(not listed). > 4th Oct 1710 he owes for1 adult and 1 child. > By "ye One and Thirieth" of December (note:the 31st) he either moved > or was > moved to the Mannor Livingston and he was assessed for 3 adults and 1 > child. > They are evidently not in order because the next notation is dated > 25 Dec 1710 and he was assessed for 3 adults and 2 children. > 24 June 1711 still at Livingston, assessed for 3 adults and one child. > 29 Sept 1711 assessed 3 and 1. > 24 Dec 1711, > same 3 & 1. > There are four more entries and they stop at 13 Sept 1712. All are > for 3 > adults and 1 child. 1/07 "akstaub" <akstaub@comcast.net > <mailto:akstaub@comcast.net>> > > Simmendinger Register. It states only the following: " ZEH, > JOHANNES (6) > and MAGDALENA with 4 children." [Note: the numeral 6 following the > name indicates Johannes was found at the camp > "NEW STUTTGART". 1/07 "akstaub" <akstaub@comcast.net > <mailto:akstaub@comcast.net>>] > > !Book of Names" by Lou MacWelty 1969 @ P-72 lists Johannes ZEHE on > Hunters > List @ East Camp as "Soldiers in Canadian Exposition of 1711", > P-75/100 has > 4 lists totaling 6520 names of Palatines in London in 1709 with List 3 > P-101 > dated 2 Jun 1709 at St Catherines has John ZEG, h&w, age 42, Catholic > with 3 > sons aged 1, 6, & 1/2 ( it is believed the 1/2 s/b 11). > <http://www.fortklock.com/names1709thirdlist.htm> > > !"The Palatine Families of NY" by Hank Jones 1985. P-1126/9 lists > history of > Johannes ZEHE (Hunters List # 838), wife Magdalena & 9 children from > Oppenheim, Platinate,Germany, 1710 Immigration, Schoharie, NY on down > to his > death 7 Jul 1751. One of the 9 is listed as 'iv, "A Child" bapt 2 Oct > 1742 > (Schoharie Ref. Chbk.) This "child" may have been Adam, a s/o > Johannes, who > md. Margaretha Eckhardt 1 Mar 1767 (Schoharie Luth Chbk) (HJ)' > > !"More Palatine Families" by Henry Z Jones 1991. P-410 states Johannes > SECH > was a Palatine from Popery when he was admitted to the Lord's Supper in > Protestant Communion at the Lutheran Church at Savoy in London shortly > after > 9 Oct 1709. > > !"The Kocherthal Records" by J Christian Krahmer Oct 1926. P-17 Lists > Johannes and Anna Magdalena ZECH at 29 Sep 1710 bapt of son Johan Adam in > NY. P-72 lists Johannes ZEHE on Gov Hunters 1711 Ration lists at East > Camp. > > !"Early Eighteenth Century Palatine Emigration" by W A Knittle. P-252 > lists > Hans Pieter SOUS and Johannes SOUS with Vrou among 2nd Palatine Party > sailing on 23 May 1709 from Holland to London. P-291 has NY Substance > Lists > with Johannes ZEHE listed in 1710 with 3 over 10 yrs age and 0 under, > and in > 1712 with 3 over and 1 under 10 yrs age. P-299 shows Simmendinger > Register > with Johannes ZEH ca 1717 with wife Magdalena and 4 children in > New-Stuttgardt (Weiserdorf), Schoharie Valley, NY. P-203 has story of > Magdalena ZEH as self appointed captain of 1715 Schoharie Uprising. > > !PEDIGREE: P-325 of "Early Families of Schoharie Co. NY" by Wm Barker > 1985 > (unpublished) lists 4 generations of descendants citing Hank Jones' books. > > PEDIGREE: Rec 4/2002 from descendant John ZEH <JohnZeh1@mindspring.com > <mailto:JohnZeh1@mindspring.com>>

Thanks Bob for your interest. Please find below my eldest fam sheet and notes for my Johannes ZEH fam. I believe they were in the Alzey/Oppenheim area bef 1700, came down the Rhine with the 1710 Platinates, appear on sporadic lists in Holland, London, NYC, the camps along the Hudson, and settled at Schoharie. While most of the fam stayed in Schoharie area, his son (my gf) George went on to Tolpehochen Cr in present day Lebanon Co, PA in the 1720s, then on to Hardy Co, WV by 1750 where they changed their name to SEE. I would appreciate your thoughts. Best, Hal McCawley 4178 Pindar Way, Oceanside, CA 92056 760.941.4716 Descendants of Johannes ZEH 1 Johannes Zeh 1672 - 1750 b: 1672 in Oppenheim, Platinate, Germany d: Bef. 07 Jul 1750 in Schoharie, NY .. +Anna Magdalena 1672 - 1750 b: 1672 in Germany d: 07 Jul 1750 in Weiserdorf, Schoharie, NY m: 1693 in Oppenheim, Rudelsheim, Germany .......... 2 Johan George See 1690 - 1751 b: Bef. 1690 in [My gf] Oppenheim,,Platinate, Germany d: 1751 in Hardy, WV .............. +Margaret Tschudi 1690 - 1757 b: Abt. 1690 in Frenkendorf, Basel, Switz d: 1757 in Hardy, WV m: Abt. 1709 in NY? .......... 2 Johannes Gerhardt Zeh 1703/04 - 1710 b: 17 Feb 1703/04 in Ruhlsheim, Germany d: Bef. 1710 .......... 2 Ignatius Zeh 1706 - 1710 b: 14 Aug 1706 in Rudelsheim,Germany d: Bef. 1710 .......... 2 Johannes Petrus Zeh 1708/09 - 1710 b: 09 Jan 1708/09 in Rudlehiem, Germany d: Bef. 1710 .......... 2 Johan Adam Zeh 1710 - 1771 b: 29 Sep 1710 in West Camp, Ulster, NY d: 15 Dec 1771 in Schoharie, Schoharie, NY .............. +Anna Meier 1726 - b: 1726 m: 16 Aug 1750 in St. Paul Luth Ch, Schoharie, NY .......... 2 Christian Zeh 1716 - 1763 b: Abt. 1716 in Schoharie, NY d: 13 Sep 1763 in Schoharie, NY .............. +Anna Sophia Lawyer 1713/14 - 1759 b: 12 Feb 1713/14 d: 22 Apr 1759 in Schoharie, NY m: 05 Apr 1750 in St Pauls Luth Ch, Schoharie, Schoharie, NY .......... 2 Johannes Zeh 1717 - 1748 b: Abt. 1717 in Schoharie, Schoharie, NY d: Abt. 1748 in Schoharie, Schoharie, NY .............. +Anna Catharina Bellinger 1720 - 1751 b: Abt. 1720 in Schoharie, NY d: Apr 1751 in Schoharie, NY m: 03 Mar 1737/38 in Schoharie Ref Ch, Schoharie, NY .......... *2nd Wife of Johannes Zeh: .............. +Maria Elizabeth Bellinger 1713 - b: Abt. 1713 in NY m: Aft. 31 Mar 1751 in Schoharie, NY .......... 2 Maria Margareths Zeh 1718 - b: Abt. 1718 in Schohaire, Schoharie, NY .............. +Marcus Bellinger 1682 - 1746 b: Abt. 1682 in Germany d: Bef. 20 May 1746 m: 11 Oct 1737 in Loonenburg Ch, Schoharie, Schoharie, NY .......... 2 Maria Barbara Zeh 1720 - b: Abt. 1720 in Schoharie, Schoharie, NY .............. +Frederick Carl Schell 1715 - 1798 b: Abt. 1715 in Bissinger, Wirdebergerlant, Germany d: 19 Jan 1798 m: 27 Dec 1738 in Schoharie Ref Ch, Schoharie, NY -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Footnotes for Johannes ZEH: !ANCESTOR CHART: Recd from Betty Jane See James dated 3 Feb 1992. !ANCESTOR SHEET & FAMILY SHEETS: Recd 4 Aug 1992 from descendant James Nugen, 20350 Hole-in-One #115, Redding, Ca 96002. Cites Johannes living in St. Catherine's, France on 2 June 1709 with 3 children and in 1717 living in Weisersdorf in Schoharie, NY with 4 children. "LONDON CHURCH BOOKS AND THE GERMAN EMIGRATION OF 1709." I find no mention of the name ZEH, any spelling. by JOHN P. DERN . 1/07 "akstaub" <akstaub@comcast.net> Hunter Subsistence Lists starting with 1 July 1710 is the first I find Johannes Zeh listed. There he owes for 3 adults, himself and ?(not listed). 4th Oct 1710 he owes for1 adult and 1 child. By "ye One and Thirieth" of December (note:the 31st) he either moved or was moved to the Mannor Livingston and he was assessed for 3 adults and 1 child. They are evidently not in order because the next notation is dated 25 Dec 1710 and he was assessed for 3 adults and 2 children. 24 June 1711 still at Livingston, assessed for 3 adults and one child. 29 Sept 1711 assessed 3 and 1. 24 Dec 1711, > same 3 & 1. There are four more entries and they stop at 13 Sept 1712. All are for 3 adults and 1 child. 1/07 "akstaub" <akstaub@comcast.net> Simmendinger Register. It states only the following: " ZEH, JOHANNES (6) and MAGDALENA with 4 children." [Note: the numeral 6 following the name indicates Johannes was found at the camp "NEW STUTTGART". 1/07 "akstaub" <akstaub@comcast.net>] !Book of Names" by Lou MacWelty 1969 @ P-72 lists Johannes ZEHE on Hunters List @ East Camp as "Soldiers in Canadian Exposition of 1711", P-75/100 has 4 lists totaling 6520 names of Palatines in London in 1709 with List 3 P-101 dated 2 Jun 1709 at St Catherines has John ZEG, h&w, age 42, Catholic with 3 sons aged 1, 6, & 1/2 ( it is believed the 1/2 s/b 11). <http://www.fortklock.com/names1709thirdlist.htm> !"The Palatine Families of NY" by Hank Jones 1985. P-1126/9 lists history of Johannes ZEHE (Hunters List # 838), wife Magdalena & 9 children from Oppenheim, Platinate,Germany, 1710 Immigration, Schoharie, NY on down to his death 7 Jul 1751. One of the 9 is listed as 'iv, "A Child" bapt 2 Oct 1742 (Schoharie Ref. Chbk.) This "child" may have been Adam, a s/o Johannes, who md. Margaretha Eckhardt 1 Mar 1767 (Schoharie Luth Chbk) (HJ)' !"More Palatine Families" by Henry Z Jones 1991. P-410 states Johannes SECH was a Palatine from Popery when he was admitted to the Lord's Supper in Protestant Communion at the Lutheran Church at Savoy in London shortly after 9 Oct 1709. !"The Kocherthal Records" by J Christian Krahmer Oct 1926. P-17 Lists Johannes and Anna Magdalena ZECH at 29 Sep 1710 bapt of son Johan Adam in NY. P-72 lists Johannes ZEHE on Gov Hunters 1711 Ration lists at East Camp. !"Early Eighteenth Century Palatine Emigration" by W A Knittle. P-252 lists Hans Pieter SOUS and Johannes SOUS with Vrou among 2nd Palatine Party sailing on 23 May 1709 from Holland to London. P-291 has NY Substance Lists with Johannes ZEHE listed in 1710 with 3 over 10 yrs age and 0 under, and in 1712 with 3 over and 1 under 10 yrs age. P-299 shows Simmendinger Register with Johannes ZEH ca 1717 with wife Magdalena and 4 children in New-Stuttgardt (Weiserdorf), Schoharie Valley, NY. P-203 has story of Magdalena ZEH as self appointed captain of 1715 Schoharie Uprising. !PEDIGREE: P-325 of "Early Families of Schoharie Co. NY" by Wm Barker 1985 (unpublished) lists 4 generations of descendants citing Hank Jones' books. PEDIGREE: Rec 4/2002 from descendant John ZEH <JohnZeh1@mindspring.com> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "bob gillis" To: <pfalz@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 6:35 AM Subject: Re: [Pfalz] Oppenheim Church Records > Hal McCawley wrote: > >>Where can one locate church records before 1720? >>I am researching my ZEH family that migrated to America with the 1710 >>Palatines. >>Thanks, >> > > Hal, Tell more about your Zeh family. Through what port did they enter > and where did they settle? What is your evidence that they came from > Oppenheim, apparently then in Hesse and now in R-P. > > Where have you searched for your German ancestors. > > There are many Zehs in the IGI many of whom were in Wuerttemburg. > > bob gillis > > > > ********* > Information for list members: > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/PFALZ.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PFALZ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.19/663 - Release Date: 2/1/2007 > 2:28 PM > >

Hal McCawley wrote: >Where can one locate church records before 1720? >I am researching my ZEH family that migrated to America with the 1710 Palatines. >Thanks, > Hal, Tell more about your Zeh family. Through what port did they enter and where did they settle? What is your evidence that they came from Oppenheim, apparently then in Hesse and now in R-P. Where have you searched for your German ancestors. There are many Zehs in the IGI many of whom were in Wuerttemburg. bob gillis

There are sources and histories on the Johannes Heilman of York Co. Pa., on the rootsweb worldconnect project. I research the Heilman family that settled in Northampton Co. Pa. I have not seen a connection with these families. >From the "Genealogical Reports for The Historical Society of York County, Evidences of the Heilman Families of York County Before the Year 1850," page 211, Revolutionary Services. John Heilman, member of the Sixth Class of the Inhabitants of Codorus Township, classified under an Act of Assembly passed in 1780 entitled "An Act to compleat the Quota of the Federal Army"; each class was "required to provide, in fifteen Days from this Date (January 20, 1781), one able-bodied Recruit for the Continental Army, to serve during the War," under penalty of a fine of 15.0.0 lbs. specie: this class provided delinquent. Debbie

Dear Hal, The German Palatines who immigrated under Queen Anne's protection to New York, lived first in an area where the City of Newburgh is today. The attended what would later be called St. Paul's Church at West Camp, in Quassaick. or the Heights. My ancestral family is Michael Weigand's, some of whom stayed in New York, but a daughter migrated to PA when the political shenanigans squeezed the Palatines so hard, they left. There is some information on these families in The Documentary History of New York, edited by The Fort Klock website has a singularly good coverage of the Palatine families. Go to _http://fortklock.org/_ (http://fortklock.org/) and type in "Palatines" and will get pages of sites with historic references, notably, Walter Knittle's 1930 book as well and many websites that show the experiences of a particular family. Good Luck! Carolyn Larkins

Hi Sonny, Fred & list members, Some additional information. If an emigrant arrived in North America via Canada (e.g. Quebec) you will NOT find Canadian passenger arrival records before 1865 since Canada did NOT begin to record ship arrivals until that year. Very few immigrants generated a paper record before that date. Bette > Sonny, > > In 1848 there were many ports of departure from that region of > Europe: Calais, Harve, Antwerp, and etc. There were also many ports > of entry into the US where one might end up in Ohio, such as Boston, > Baltimore, New York, even New Orleans, and Montreal. > > BTW, the departure ports did not keep records, but the arrival ports > did. If you can find the arrival ship, the ship's manifest will give > the port of departure. Be forewarned, in that time period there is > usually no useful information on the manifest, such as last residence > or village of birth, as records much later had. >> >>On the 1900 census my GG grandfather Jacob Pees said he immigrated >>in 1848 from Baumholder . If he left from there what port would have >>sailed from ? He ended up in Port Washington Ohio . >> >>Sonny