There is also a Amorbach (ZIP code 63916) which could/schould be taken into account. Regards Ernst Dierich. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan & Rich Winters" <mtwinters5@bigsky.net> To: <PFALZ-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 10:06 PM Subject: [PFALZ] Amerbach 1870 > Martha Winter born in Amerbach, Germany in 1870; Can you direct me to a gazeteer that might have this location ?

>Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 14:06:31 -0700 >From: "Jan & Rich Winters" <mtwinters5@bigsky.net> >To: PFALZ-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [PFALZ] Amerbach 1870 > >Martha Winter born in Amerbach, Germany in 1870; Can you direct me to a gazeteer that might have this location ? > Will a map do, rather than a gazeteer? There are several tools for finding places on the internet. The one I like best is ShtetlSeeker (http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm), because it gives many posible variations of the place name. Another is GeoServ (http://www.genealogienetz.de/gene/misc/geoserv.html). They both are useful. ShtetlSeeker will lead you to a scalable map. The map seems to indicate that Amerbach is not in the Pfalz region. GeoServ will tell you where the place is. GeoServ says: Amerbach Part of: Wemding GKZ : 09 7 79 228 County : | | +---- Donau-Ries (Donauwörth) {DON} RegBez : | +------- Schwaben Land : +--------- Bayern ZIP : 86650 Popul : 404 Locat : (Wemding) 48d53m N 10d43m E Maps : TK25 7130 Wemding TK50 L7130 Treuchtlingen Euro Le55 This place is not in the Pfalz, but in Bavaria proper. You would be better served by subscribing to the Bavarian mail list to continuing your research (http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/BAVARIA.html). BTW, there does not appear to be any microfilm records in the LDS Family History Library for Amerbach. -- Please use this address until further notice mailto:fhheld@netzero.net _______________________________________________ Why pay for something you could get for free? NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

> Looking for ancestors from ZULPICH which lies west of Bonn and >southwest of Köln. The only information that I have came from the LDS >International Genealogical Index. > > My family line is descended through MARIA HEIMBACH who married >JOHANN UHRHAN on 23 October 1717 in the Catholic Church in Zulpich. >Her D.O.B. is 16 July 1699 in Zulpich. There is one other child that >I know of---SIBILLA HEIMBACH born 1 March 1703--no town shown. She >married ANTON UHRHAN ON 16 February 1719. From the same IGI record I >have data on their children. I would strongly suggest that you order the microfilm which is listed as the source for the marriage of Maria Heimbach and Johann Uhrhan. The records in Zulpich are filmed and go back to 1682. Not all the records are in the IGI. It is also my experience in German records that more information is given in the actual record than is given in the IGI. There's a chance the marriage entry would give the parents' names for both the bride and groom and possibly the residence of each. If both families were in Zulpich, you could go back at least another generation with the records that are filmed. Pam pamw2@fuse.net http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Woods/6771/

The subscribers to the PFALZ Digest are great. It was the 2nd time I asked a question and you really came through. Thank you so much for your response and for guiding me in the right direction. Fran Hill

Have been off the list for sometime but thought I would come back and give the search another try. Looking for ancestors from ZULPICH which lies west of Bonn and southwest of Köln. The only information that I have came from the LDS International Genealogical Index. My family line is descended through MARIA HEIMBACH who married JOHANN UHRHAN on 23 October 1717 in the Catholic Church in Zulpich. Her D.O.B. is 16 July 1699 in Zulpich. There is one other child that I know of---SIBILLA HEIMBACH born 1 March 1703--no town shown. She married ANTON UHRHAN ON 16 February 1719. From the same IGI record I have data on their children. Their parents were PETER HEIMBACH & CATHARINE HERGARD. I have a great deal of information from 1717 forward but am unable to go back any farther than PETER & CATHARINE. Their places and dates of birth are unknown and JOHANN UHRHAN also represents another dead end. I am particularly interested in finding more information on all of these people but particularly PETER & CATHARINE and the parents of JOHANN UHRHAN. If anyone has any knowledge of these people, I would like to hear from you. Also others researching these names. I am also open to any suggestions to get my research in this area moving once again. Frank Kuhn flask1@att.net

Martha Winter born in Amerbach, Germany in 1870; Can you direct me to a gazeteer that might have this location ?

Quite interesting the link to Hiwwe wie Driwwe. My sister-in-law's family near Allentown still aparently speaks it a little, as when she and my brother were married, I was welcomed into the "Friendschaft" (Verwandtschaft, family, relations) I live in Mainz, Germany now, my g-grandfather was born in Dellfeld, between Pirmasens and Zweibrücken, part of my sis-in-law's family comes from near Worms. I don't speak any dialect, but fluent German. And that is enough to understand what was written. Sounds a little odd at first, but you get used to it. I put to question to my "new found" cousin in Dellfeld, if he knows the dialect, so will see what he says. I have asked my brother to pass this on to his in-laws to see if anyone of them still really speaks the dialect. Macht's gut! David Eyre

In my family, too, there was a vague memory of "Dutch" ancestry, which turned out to be "Deutsch" (German word for "German") upon closer inspection. Obviously, one way in which this could happen was that later generations, speaking only English, might remember that Great-Grandpa always said he was "Deutsch", which they misunderstood as meaning "Dutch". I think many people may not realize, however, that the meaning of the term "Dutch" has varied somewhat over the centuries in the English-speaking world. It didn't always refer precisely to what we call "The Netherlands" today. So, it wasn't always just a matter of mistranslating "Deutsch" as "Dutch". Since modern Germany didn't come into existence as a nation until 1871, the geographical area to which the English term "Germany" referred varied as well. Also, there is a real Dutch connection in my Palatine line, and probably in many other families as well. Many of the Palatine Germans who came to America were driven out of the Palatinate in the early 18th century by the armies of Louis XIV of France, apparently because they were Protestants. The obvious direction in which to flee was north. Northern Germany and the Netherlands were Protestant, southern Germany was Catholic. Many of these people travelled down the Rhine to the Netherlands, and waited there for help. Although the English resettled many of them in America, in Ireland, and in other places, this didn't necessarily happen immediately. In some cases families stayed there for a generation or longer. In my family, this resulted in one generation having a Dutch name. My gggggg-grandfather was named "Johann Simon Strader", perfectly German-looking, but his son was "Hendrick" rather than "Heinrich". My guess is that he was born in the Netherlands, or at least in a nearby Platt-speaking area, during this transitional period. I hope this helps. I'm far from being an expert on this subject, but this is what I've figured out so far, based on my own family's history. Charles Jones Cambridge, MA

Regarding the discussion Dutch and German Rhineland dialect Pennsylvania Dutch, Pennsylvania Deutsch, Pennsilfaanischdeutsch or PA Deutsch/Dutch is similar to the German that was spoken about 150/200 years ago in the South German speaking area (Kraichgau, Alsace, Palatinate, Switzerland in some sense, etc.). It is a "mixture" of that german dialects and some American/English expression. It is similar to the today German spoken in Palatinate or Alsace. You may compare the dialect ("Mundart" in German) at http://www.internet-fenster.de/mundart/. There is *'d Guckkaschde* with at time 3 dialect poets (Alsace/Palatine) and an online version of the PA - Dutch journal *Hiwwe wie Driwwe*. Dutch, regarding the above dialects is an "old" German Mundart. Winfrid Liebrich

My grandpa used to tell us kids a similar story, and then one day while we were on vacation a number of years ago, woman who was orginally from Rheinland, took the time to explain it to us. In the Rheinland dialect Deutsch (pronounced doytsh in high German) was pronounced like "Dutch". So it's very possible that he was saying Dutch (a la Rheinland dialect) but meaning German. The fact that there were so many Palatinates that settled in Pennsylvania during this time certainly adds credence to their stories. > Have always been told that my 5th g-grandfather Johannes Friedrich Sanger came from Palatines, Germany to Dauphin Co, Pa in about 1745. Recently, a cousin told me that he had always been told that Johannes was from Holland and could not leave for America from Holland and had to travel to Germany to leave. He said our family was Dutch while I was assuming they were German. Does any of this make sense to anyone and are there any suggestions how I might research this in Holland and Germany. Thank you for any help. Fran Hill

Have always been told that my 5th g-grandfather Johannes Friedrich Sanger came from Palatines, Germany to Dauphin Co, Pa in about 1745. Recently, a cousin told me that he had always been told that Johannes was from Holland and could not leave for America from Holland and had to travel to Germany to leave. He said our family was Dutch while I was assuming they were German. Does any of this make sense to anyone and are there any suggestions how I might research this in Holland and Germany. Thank you for any help. Fran Hill

Here Lies is not directly so translated into German. The German phrase is: Hier ruht meaning Here rests David Eyre deyre@gmx.de My genealogy can be found at this link http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=davideyre ----- Original Message ----- From: "Betty Griffin" <bettyjogr@abts.net> To: <PFALZ-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 3:58 AM Subject: [PFALZ] translation > Please tell me the German language for "Here Lies" and the name "Ruth". If > no one can help with the translation, do you know of a site that can help? > The reason for my request has to do with the an ancestor's tombstone > inscription. > Any help is appreciated. > > Betty G > > ______________________________

I am interested in learning more about the custom houses on the Rhein particularly the "Pfalz on the Rhein at Kaub." In the early 1700's how much of a toll would a person have to pay to go through? Are there other web sites that could help me with this? Thanks in advance for any help. Warm Regards, Judy King Granville, Ohio

-Some of my German ancestors here in the states have hier ruht on their gravestones. I don't read German but am told it is here rests. A question: I learned a few phrases from older people but the people I've talked to who speak German have a hard time understanding and translating. It could be my pronunciation but one German professor suggested it was probably an old dialect. Does any one know where (if this is true) I might find out where such I dialect was spoken? I have run out of places to find out exactly where they were from. I've tried census, family, naturalization, ships records. Any help will be appreciated. Kathy

Here Lies - hier liegt Ruth - Ruth Regards Ernst Dierich. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Betty Griffin" <bettyjogr@abts.net> To: <PFALZ-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 3:58 AM Subject: [PFALZ] translation > Please tell me the German language for "Here Lies" and the name "Ruth". If > no one can help with the translation, do you know of a site that can help? > The reason for my request has to do with the an ancestor's tombstone > inscription. > Any help is appreciated. > > Betty G > > > ==== PFALZ Mailing List ==== > Going on vacation longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/PFALZ.html > to unsubscribe >

Please tell me the German language for "Here Lies" and the name "Ruth". If no one can help with the translation, do you know of a site that can help? The reason for my request has to do with the an ancestor's tombstone inscription. Any help is appreciated. Betty G

I am trying to determine the dates and places for the following 4 events: 1. The death of Mathias/Mathieu KUNTZ (sometime between 1762 and 1796 – probably in Lorraine), who was born on 24 March 1732 in Bruchweiler, Pfalz, the son of Johann/Jean Georg/Georges KUNTZ and Maria/Marie Ottilia/Odile WACHTEL. He was married at the Abbaye de Notre Dame in Sturzelbronn, Moselle (57), France on 18 January 1753. His wife was Marie Catherine PLATTNER of Sturzelbronn. 2. The death of Marie Catherine PLATTNER (sometime between 1762 and 1796 – probably in Lorraine), who was born on 29 November 1719 in Kobret, a dependency of Sturzelbronn, Moselle (57), France, the daughter of Nicolas PLATTNER and Anna Elisabetha HAÜSER. 3. The birth of Francois KUNTZ (circa 1757-1765) who was the son of Mathias/Mathieu KUNTZ and Marie Catherine PLATTNER. Francois died on 14 April 1796 in Haspelschiedt, Moselle (57), France. 4. The marriage of Francois KUNTZ and Agnes EHRMANN (circa 1790). Agnes was born 13 April 1764 in Haspelschiedt, Moselle (57), France and was the daughter of Jean EHRMANN and Reine GAUCH/GAUCHE. Agnes died in Haspelschiedt on 20 November 1811. I have reviewed the Family History Center microfilm 0637222 – Sturzelbronn church records (1690-1785) to no avail. I have also reviewed church books in the Pfalz for Bruchweiler, Bundenthal, Dahn, Fischbach, Schönau, and Niederschlettenbach, with no results. Any information or suggestions will be most appreciated. Lowell Kuntz

Hello, the town Speyer houses 4 major archives: Landesarchiv Speyer Otto-Mayer-Strasse 9 PB 1608 67326 Speyer FAX 06232-9192 100 Archiv des Bistums Speyer Kleine Pfaffengasse 16 PB 1160 67343 Speyer FAX 06232-102 386 Zentralarchiv der Ev. Kirche der Pfalz Domplatz 6 PB 1720 67343 Speyer FAX 06232-667 234 Stadtarchiv Speyer Johannesstrasse 22a PB 1980 67343 Speyer FAX 06232-142 796 The Landesarchiv Speyer alone has about 17,5 running km's (round about 10 running miles) of documents, which answers the question wether the LDS church has "ALL info at Speyer". The archives answer to all specifically defined inquiries but not on requests for research work. Questions like "I am interested in all info about the Smith-family in the Pfalz" will normally stay without respond. Regards Ernst Dierich. ----- Original Message ----- From: "bigelow" <bigelow@teleport.com> To: <PFALZ-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 9:43 PM Subject: [PFALZ] Speyer Archives > I have a question about the Archives at Speyer. Is it possible to write > to them for information? Does anyone know if the LDS church has in its > files ALL the info at Speyer? Has anyone had success contacting the > Speyer Archives? Any information would be appreciated. Thank you. > > Kathy > bigelow@teleport.com

Hi! I was just on this site: www.ancientfaces.com It has almost 1200 old photos and over 1300 family names..... thought maybe someone could connect with one of their surnames! I belong to over 200 lists, so sorry if some of you have already seen my email!! Pam researching: Merckel, Benning

Barbara, you wrote: >seeking information on records available for the Ixheim -Zweibrucken area for >Mary CLAUSS/KLAS/KLOS born 25 Dec 1859 who married Henry John FOLKE from >Hamburg born 11 Dec 1867. >Mary had a sister Elizabeth who married August GOETZ >Henry had a brother George and sister Minna who married Harry ZUEGE >Any information on records for this area or information on these people would >be greatly appreciated. It is a bit tricky to respond to your inquiry as you do not make it clear as to how much you have already investigated. This especially critical as you do not state (perhaps because you do not know) where any of these folks were married. Folke is clearly an anglized name and the nearest Hamburg is near Munich. Even in the 1860s this was a distance. I trust you have already eliminated the many Marie or Elisabetha Clauss listed in the IGI. www.familysearch.org Have you investigated the civil records for Ixheim or the many Church and civil records available for Zweibrücken on films from the Family History Centers? Rob Hausman ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Robert E. Hausman hausman@bu.edu www.familytreemaker.com/users/h/a/u/Robert-E-Hausman/index.html HAUSMANN, ROUSSELET, HEERE, LAUBER, LATUS