Greetings! I was wondering if anyone out on the list knows much about life among the middle and lower classes in late 19th century Perth. I'm trying to use clues from a collection of letters written by my g-granduncle from 1876 to 1919 to determine the socio-economic class, and if possible, any family occupation, of my ANDERSON ancestors from Perth. I'm listing below the clues I've gleaned from the correspondence, along with some of my own hypotheses, and I'd appreciate any input list-members might provide. Thanks in advance! -The family moved around some: Perth c. 1850, Dronley (outside Dundee) the mid to late '50's, back in Perth by the 1870's to the 1890's. One letter refers to dwellings in America as looking like the inhabitants 'just got off the boat from Cork,' so there may have been a residence and/or visit to Ireland as well. By the 1880's, family members were also located in various parts of Scotland, Wales, North America and London as well. Nonetheless, some family members were stationary for long enough periods of time to show a deep interest in the cultivation of trees, shrubs and flowers (to me this indicates they must have lived in a dwelling with enough land for extensive gardening). -The family had a considerable knowledge of horticulture/botany. They shipped cuttings, saplings and seeds to and fro across the Atlantic, and in spite of my g-granduncle's otherwise atrocious orthography, he was able to use the correctly spelled scientific names of plants and proper Latin abbreviations. Would this show special education or would it have been common among the labouring classes at the time? -One letter, from Perth in 1876, refers to going up to Murie (an estate in Errol) to see 'the carriage road Father and J. are making.' If they were simply labourers employed on the project, it doesn't seem as likely the road would be an object of pride such as to merit a special visit. Perhaps they were landscape gardeners? During the visit, Uncle Dave was given a tour of the house and estate by the gardener (I think the housekeeper would have been more usual for the indoor tour, but perhaps there was a friendship/professional association with the gardener). -The family lived in the village of Dronley, outside Dundeed, when my g-grandfather was born. The chief item of interest in the village seems to have been a jute mill; perhaps the family were labourers in the mill, but does this fit with the road-work at Murie and all the other botanical references? -Some letters have brief passages in Gaelic, and my g-granduncle typically signs himself as 'Dhaibh' (for 'Dave'). Would such use of Gaelic indicate lower-class rural origins? Uncle Dave seems to have been rather snobbish about being a 'full-blooded Scot,' and looked down on other ethnic groups and those who were only part Scottish (like his descendants ;). -The letters show a consistent hatred toward the aristocracy and contempt for the gentry. Two speculations arise from this: 1) they came into contact with these classes as servants, or 2) they were yeoman farmers who shared the common attitude that the upper classes monopolised the ownership of land (I know one needn't look too hard for an excuse to hate the upper classes, but my g-granduncle's attitude is so frequently expressed, so passionate, and so well-documented that it amounts to an obsession). -One of my g-grandaunts, Jennie, was in London from c. 1880 till at least the mid-90's. My g-granduncle sent her a ticket to America, which she never used. I think she must have been in service, because at one point when she is incommunicado for a long period, my uncle speculates 'she may have gone somewhere with the family for a brief stay.' (Presumably a family she was working for?) On the other hand, she is subsequently found to have been injured in a fall from a hansom cab; I don't *think* the working classes typically took cabs at this period, but perhaps if she were a lady's maid she might have been accompanying her mistress somewhere. A governess, I suppose, would be a slightly more likely possibility, but I think governesses were typically from a higher order of society than the spelling and grammar of the letters would indicate. I have not found anyone who is likely to be this Jennie in any census of London (of course, I've not found any likely candidate for any other member of the family in any census available on ScotlandsPeople, either). -Another daughter, Jessie, seems to have remained were her parents for as long as they lived; I've always assumed Jennie was the eldest daughter and went out 'to seek her fortune' while the younger stayed home to care for her parents. Would this have been the common pattern? -During the period of several months in which Jennie didn't write to her brothers, there was also no word from their parents. It is possible that the line 'she may have gone somewhere with the family for a brief stay' might be interpreted to mean the ANDERSON family were on holiday. Did the labouring classes take such holidays in the 1880's? On his visit home in 1876, my g-granduncle says ' I'v[e] been thinking gan over tou Loch Liven then oot west,' which I speculate might be a reference to a recreational tour. -During this same period of lapsed correspondence, Uncle Dave writes 'We get papers from home pretty regular. One had a note saying mother had rheumatism in her arms.' Would a town the size of Perth have had a newspaper like those typical of American villages that chronicle ever trivial visit and illness of each inhabitant? If not, would this indicate some distinction on the part of my (unknown to me) g-g-grandmother? The only thing I've come up with is that she might have been a local clergyman's wife, but again, the spelling/grammar of her son tell against this, as does the complete lack of reference to religion in the letters he wrote. Can anyone out there add to and/or refute any of my speculations? Any input would be much appreciated! Thanks in advance, Brian Chaffin

For a general survey of Scottish living conditions try these two books by TC Smout. A History of the Scottish People 1560-1830 by TC Smout published by Fontana Press 1998 first published by William Collins & Sons 1969 A Century of the Scottish People 1830-1950 (This title may be slightly wrong) Regards Peter Ferguson ----- Original Message ----- From: <melmoth@scc.net> To: <PERTHSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 12:36 AM Subject: [PERTH] Socio-Economic Class late 19th C > Greetings! > > I was wondering if anyone out on the list knows much about life among the > middle and lower classes in late 19th century Perth. I'm trying to use > clues from a collection of letters written by my g-granduncle from 1876 to > 1919 to determine the socio-economic class, and if possible, any family > occupation, of my ANDERSON ancestors from Perth. I'm listing below the > clues I've gleaned from the correspondence, along with some of my own > hypotheses, and I'd appreciate any input list-members might provide. > Thanks in advance! > > -The family moved around some: Perth c. 1850, Dronley (outside Dundee) > the > mid to late '50's, back in Perth by the 1870's to the 1890's. One letter > refers to dwellings in America as looking like the inhabitants 'just got > off the boat from Cork,' so there may have been a residence and/or visit > to > Ireland as well. By the 1880's, family members were also located in > various parts of Scotland, Wales, North America and London as well. > Nonetheless, some family members were stationary for long enough periods > of time to show a deep interest in the cultivation of trees, shrubs and > flowers (to me this indicates they must have lived in a dwelling with > enough land for extensive gardening). > > -The family had a considerable knowledge of horticulture/botany. They > shipped cuttings, saplings and seeds to and fro across the Atlantic, and > in > spite of my g-granduncle's otherwise atrocious orthography, he was able to > use the correctly spelled scientific names of plants and proper Latin > abbreviations. Would this show special education or would it have been > common among the labouring classes at the time? > > -One letter, from Perth in 1876, refers to going up to Murie (an estate in > Errol) to see 'the carriage road Father and J. are making.' If they were > simply labourers employed on the project, it doesn't seem as likely the > road would be an object of pride such as to merit a special visit. > Perhaps > they were landscape gardeners? During the visit, Uncle Dave was given a > tour of the house and estate by the gardener (I think the housekeeper > would > have been more usual for the indoor tour, but perhaps there was a > friendship/professional association with the gardener). > > -The family lived in the village of Dronley, outside Dundeed, when my > g-grandfather was born. The chief item of interest in the village seems > to > have been a jute mill; perhaps the family were labourers in the mill, but > does this fit with the road-work at Murie and all the other botanical > references? > > -Some letters have brief passages in Gaelic, and my g-granduncle typically > signs himself as 'Dhaibh' (for 'Dave'). Would such use of Gaelic indicate > lower-class rural origins? Uncle Dave seems to have been rather snobbish > about being a 'full-blooded Scot,' and looked down on other ethnic groups > and those who were only part Scottish (like his descendants ;). > > -The letters show a consistent hatred toward the aristocracy and contempt > for the gentry. Two speculations arise from this: 1) they came into > contact with these classes as servants, or 2) they were yeoman farmers who > shared the common attitude that the upper classes monopolised the > ownership > of land (I know one needn't look too hard for an excuse to hate the upper > classes, but my g-granduncle's attitude is so frequently expressed, so > passionate, and so well-documented that it amounts to an obsession). > > -One of my g-grandaunts, Jennie, was in London from c. 1880 till at least > the mid-90's. My g-granduncle sent her a ticket to America, which she > never used. I think she must have been in service, because at one point > when she is incommunicado for a long period, my uncle speculates 'she may > have gone somewhere with the family for a brief stay.' (Presumably a > family she was working for?) On the other hand, she is subsequently found > to have been injured in a fall from a hansom cab; I don't *think* the > working classes typically took cabs at this period, but perhaps if she > were > a lady's maid she might have been accompanying her mistress somewhere. A > governess, I suppose, would be a slightly more likely possibility, but I > think governesses were typically from a higher order of society than the > spelling and grammar of the letters would indicate. I have not found > anyone who is likely to be this Jennie in any census of London (of course, > I've not found any likely candidate for any other member of the family in > any census available on ScotlandsPeople, either). > > -Another daughter, Jessie, seems to have remained were her parents for as > long as they lived; I've always assumed Jennie was the eldest daughter and > went out 'to seek her fortune' while the younger stayed home to care for > her parents. Would this have been the common pattern? > > -During the period of several months in which Jennie didn't write to her > brothers, there was also no word from their parents. It is possible that > the line 'she may have gone somewhere with the family for a brief stay' > might be interpreted to mean the ANDERSON family were on holiday. Did the > labouring classes take such holidays in the 1880's? On his visit home in > 1876, my g-granduncle says ' I'v[e] been thinking gan over tou Loch Liven > then oot west,' which I speculate might be a reference to a recreational > tour. > > -During this same period of lapsed correspondence, Uncle Dave writes 'We > get papers from home pretty regular. One had a note saying mother had > rheumatism in her arms.' Would a town the size of Perth have had a > newspaper like those typical of American villages that chronicle ever > trivial visit and illness of each inhabitant? If not, would this indicate > some distinction on the part of my (unknown to me) g-g-grandmother? The > only thing I've come up with is that she might have been a local > clergyman's wife, but again, the spelling/grammar of her son tell against > this, as does the complete lack of reference to religion in the letters he > wrote. > > Can anyone out there add to and/or refute any of my speculations? Any > input would be much appreciated! Thanks in advance, > > Brian Chaffin > > > ==== PERTHSHIRE Mailing List ==== > Footer: Unsubscribe by sending an e-mail to > PERTHSHIRE-L-request@rootsweb.com with ONLY the word SUBSCRIBE in the > subject line and in the body of the message. ( Use > PERTHSHIRE-D-request@rootsweb.com > for the Digest.) > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/SCT/PERTHSHIRE.html >