I have some extra Scotland's People credits if you need a look up. Karen ________________________________ From: "perthshire-request@rootsweb.com" <perthshire-request@rootsweb.com> To: perthshire@rootsweb.com Sent: Fri, December 17, 2010 3:00:40 AM Subject: PERTHSHIRE Digest, Vol 5, Issue 149 Today's Topics: 1. Re: Ellen nee MacGregor and/or Drummond born in Scotlanda bout 1800 (tomwdcraftr@juno.com) 2. Re: Ellen nee MacGregor and/or Drummond born inScotlanda bout 1800 (S Tryk) 3. Fw: Ellen nee MacGregor and/or Drummond born Scotland about 1800 (CandROverson) 4. Re: Ellen nee MacGregor and/or Drummond born inScotlanda bout 1800 (Peter Booth (2)) 5. Re: Ellen nee MacGregor and/or Drummond born inScotlanda bout 1800 (CandROverson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 19:57:44 GMT From: "tomwdcraftr@juno.com" <tomwdcraftr@juno.com> Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Ellen nee MacGregor and/or Drummond born in Scotlanda bout 1800 To: perthshire@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <20101216.115744.5565.0@webmail23.vgs.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Thanks Peter for your messages!! The oldest Daughter Janet Todd married William Murray. I don't know where I got the info or if it's accurate, but I show they married Nov 8, 1845 in Glencairn, Dumfrieshire, Scotland. It seems they were on the 1851 Scotland census, and on the 1861 Ontario, Canada census. I show they had a Son in Scotland in 1852, and a Son in Ontario in 1855, which narrows the date they would have immigrated. The Daughter Ellen Todd married James Snaden/Snadden probably in Scotland. They had a Daughter in Scotland in March 1855 and a Daughter in Ontario in 1857. If they all immigrated at the same time, it would seem it may have been after March of 1855. I had found one 1851 Scotland census I thought might have been Matthew and Ellen and some of the children. However, the name showed as "Mathan" for Matthew and he showed as 50, an Ellen showed as 51, a Daughter Ellen showed as 21, and a John at 14. They were listed with a larger group of people and there were other Todd names. It showed them as lodgers traveling Marsh? Not sure what that means? They were in Biggar, Lanarkshire on South Frunt Street. I think I'd seen another 1851 Scotland census for I think an Annie Todd about my Anderson's age who was a different name than the family she was with an showed as a "servant", but don't know if it could have been her?? The birth info for the one showed as Mathan I think would have been wrong for my Matthew, but hard to know who reported the information. On this the Ellen Todd showed born in 1800 in Airdrie, Lanarkshire. Hard to know if this could be my Ellen MacGregor/Drummond?? Oh there is an 1851/52 Canada census, but my understanding is that some of those records were destroyed or are missing. I never found one for Matthew and Ellen and family. Thanks to all so much for your kind help!!! Tom McMillan (Washougal, WA) Tom, I tutor in genealogy as well as do some professional research. The answers will be at Scotland's People, but because it's a pay site, you'll have to cover the cost and do the work yourself. But it's quite easy and inexpensive at about $2 per lookup. IGI has christenings for Robert & John in Roxborough and Lanark. One is an extracted, the other a user submission. The various locations suggest the family didn't stay in the one place for long, so any records for the other children may well be scattered.. I can't see them in 1851 census of Scotland or England which suggests they migrated before that date. I don't know if there is census of Canada around 1850. Otherwise, you might have to look for shipping records. I'd also look for possible marriages of the eldest daughters Janet and Ellen before leaving Scotland. That might help fix a date for migration. It would be helpful to see if their first child was born in Scotland or Canada. Peter in Sydney When replying to a message or a digest, please delete everything except the portion to which you are replying. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ____________________________________________________________ Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4d0a6f7431bf6823c9dst01vuc ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 15:03:11 -0600 From: "S Tryk" <wombat@ecarthage.com> Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Ellen nee MacGregor and/or Drummond born inScotlanda bout 1800 To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <04FEE18F61A64B60B1CBF5DD460FC5C5@tryk92b94e6e5e> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Don't forget that Nellie and Nelly also work for Helen and Ellen. Sheila ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 00:31:33 -0000 From: "CandROverson" <overson12@btinternet.com> Subject: [PERTHSHIRE] Fw: Ellen nee MacGregor and/or Drummond born Scotland about 1800 To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <D404034B96834E08B95BA2C987956A2B@Chris> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Just copying my correspondence with Tom to the List (with his permission). May come in useful for someone some day. Oldest message at foot of page. Rhoda ----- Original Message ----- From: CandROverson To: tomwdcraftr@juno.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 11:16 AM Subject: Re: Ellen nee MacGregor and/or Drummond born Scotland about 1800 Hi Tom Sorry you can't view the image. But here is what it says for JOHN: " Matthew TODD Hawker from Alnwick in Northumberland and Helen DRUMMOND his Wife had a Son born at Leadhills upon the 4th and baptized upon the 5th day of November 1836 by the Revd. W Hope before Witnesses. Named John." It is interesting that the Baptism followed a day after the Birth. It suggests the family were passing through Leadhills when Helen gave birth. The other three Baptisms on the entry page all took place some months after the Birth and were children of parents living in Leadhills. When ROBERT was Baptised two years earlier in the parish of Melrose, Roxburghshire, the family appeared to be resident in what is now Galashiels in Selkirkshire. That baptism says: "Robert Lawful son of Matthew TODD China Merchant Darlingshaugh & Helen DRUMMOND was born 10 July 1854 and baptd 21 July 1834." Googling 'Darlingshaugh' shows that it was on the outskirts of Galashiels. 'Ellen' is a variation of the name 'Helen'. It is a less formal use of the name. I have many Helens in my tree who became known as 'Ellen'. A bit like 'James' and 'Jim' etc. It is entirely possible that Helen could have been born in Edinburgh, or perhaps in a small town/village nearby. The only Helen Drummond born in the vicinity of Edinburgh appearing on the Birth/Baptism index on Scotlands People between 1795 and 1810 was one baptised or born in Cramond (now in Edinburgh) on 17 August 1804 to Thomas DRUMMOND and Helen ANDERSON. The fact that your Great Grandmother was named 'Anderson' suggests a link to a family surname and it is possible that this Helen ANDERSON was her grandmother. But it could just be a coincidence. Rhoda in London, UK ----- Original Message ----- From: tomwdcraftr@juno.com To: overson12@btinternet.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 4:28 AM Subject: RE: Ellen nee MacGregor and/or Drummond born Scotland about 1800 Hi Rhoda Oh, thank you so very much!! Unfortunately, I can't seem to get my photo program to bring it in too clear. I can make some out, but not all. Would it be possible to transcribe what the record says for John's birth? The Family knew her as, and I think even on her grave in Canada it shows "Ellen"? But, in Scotland I wonder if it would have always been "Helen"? I've also seen it as Helen some in Canada. Some of the handed down family history felt she was born in Edinburgh, so I don't know if that's possible? I have collected some records from England for Matthew, and it seems his Father had been a potter, but may have also been a hawker for the pottery. It seems that Matthew's parents had about 7 or eight children born in several different areas in Northumberland. Your kindness is greatly appreciated!! Tom McMillan Hello Tom This is in response to your message on the Perthshire List. I am attaching the image of John Todd's baptism entry in the Crawford and Leadhills (Lanarkshire) 1836 Parish Register (downloaded from the Scotlands People website). This records Matthew Todd as a hawker from the parish of Alnwick in Northumberland. This suggests that he was what we would call nowadays, a commercial traveller. Unfortunately it doesn't record Helen's place of birth, but according to the 1841 Census she was born outside Perthshire. Rhoda ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 12:10:08 +1100 From: "Peter Booth \(2\)" <peterbooth2@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Ellen nee MacGregor and/or Drummond born inScotlanda bout 1800 To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <001001cb9d87$2573c140$0400a8c0@family> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Tom, You need to move away from using possibly and probably and put in confirmed facts and sources. And to do this you should go to Scotland's People which will cost a few dollars. I have no doubt that the Mathan Todd entry in 1851 census is your man and his family. I think Andrew will be Anderson. I'm not sure if Robert aged 55 should be aged 25. But you can only tell by looking at the original census image which is available only at Scotland's People. Having proved that, it means they didn't leave Scotland until after 1851 and narrows down the migration window. On Scotland's People you may also be able to find marriages of Janet and Ellen and exact birth dates of any children. Again, this helps narrow the migration timeframe. I'm assuming they all migrated together, so the migration then fits between the last child born in Scotland and the first BDM event in Canada. Good luck Peter ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 01:52:43 -0000 From: "CandROverson" <overson12@btinternet.com> Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Ellen nee MacGregor and/or Drummond born inScotlanda bout 1800 To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <B0D74823EEDA4C65A3EEF7F3F035BEDB@Chris> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi Tom The IGI shows 3 children born in Scotland for James SNADON or SNEDDON and Helen TODD. They were: Drummond SNADON (female) born Clackmannan, 14 November 1851 (extracted record) Robert SNADON born Clackmannan, 25 September 1853 (extracted record) Helen SNEDDON born Bathgate, West Lothian, 20 March 1855 (extracted record). The birth certificate for daughter Helen on Scotlands People, records that Helen Snadon/Sneddon m.s Todd was 24 in 1855 and was born in Ayrshire (sorry I can't decipher the town or village where she was born). I think that the 1841 Census recorded Helen as being born in Perthshire. It could be that the clerk who entered the details on the birth register heard "Perthshire" as "Ayrshire"; or the 1841 Census entry could have been wrong. According to the certificate, she and James married in the parish of Fossoway in Perth and Kinross in 1849. James SNADON/SNEDDON was born in Kennet, Clackmannanshire and was a Coal and Ironstone Miner. All 3 children (including Helen junior) were "living" when the birth was registered by James Snadon on 14 April 1855. Rhoda ----- Original Message ----- From: <tomwdcraftr@juno.com> To: <perthshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [PERTHSHIRE] Ellen nee MacGregor and/or Drummond born inScotlanda bout 1800 > Thanks Peter for your messages!! > The oldest Daughter Janet Todd married William Murray. I don't know where > I got the info or if it's accurate, but I show they married Nov 8, 1845 in > Glencairn, Dumfrieshire, Scotland. It seems they were on the 1851 Scotland > census, and on the 1861 Ontario, Canada census. I show they had a Son in > Scotland in 1852, and a Son in Ontario in 1855, which narrows the date > they would have immigrated. > The Daughter Ellen Todd married James Snaden/Snadden probably in Scotland. > They had a Daughter in Scotland in March 1855 and a Daughter in Ontario in > 1857. > ------------------------------ To contact the PERTHSHIRE list administrator, send an email to PERTHSHIRE-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the PERTHSHIRE mailing list, send an email to PERTHSHIRE@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PERTHSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of PERTHSHIRE Digest, Vol 5, Issue 149 ******************************************